I heard a story on NPR this morning on my way into work about how the GOP base hasn't been dissuaded at all by the sexual harassment scandal that's been going on with Cain. In fact, his numbers have improved.
I'm sure I don't have to comment on what this says about his base... but what the hell, this is the internet, I'll do it anyway.
Clearly, the narrative here is that these are just a bunch of gold-digging strumpets who probably put out and regretted it later. I've heard remarks to the effect of, "Well, I wouldn't have waited fourteen years to bring these charges to light," tossed about as if to say that just because these events took place in the past, they don't count. Can you imagine if we'd said the same thing to all the people molested as children by their priests? (Though I guess some people tried to). But the cognitive dissonance is already there, entrenched, and good luck getting by that.
I have to imagine that his base really, really wants him to win. Otherwise, they'd have to vote for a guy that makes Dubya look like a Rhodes Scholar or for a Mormon. And those simply aren't options at this point, so they rationalize it any way they can. I'm willing to bet that even if there was video of Cain in the act of actually harassing these women most of his supporters would just dig their heels in and start with the apologist crap.
I'm left to conclude that whoever is still supporting this guy is deluding themselves and/or straight up misogynistic. Because we all know that something had to have happened--otherwise, why was there a settlement? And if what was said about the second woman being outed by news outlets rather than coming forward herself is true, well... all the more likely that this really happened. And frankly, from what I've seen of his demeanor and general outlook, it's not a stretch for me to assume he's exactly the kind of man who'd think highly enough of himself, and so little of others (particularly women), that he'd do exactly what he's being accused of.
Myself, I sincerely hope that Cain isn't the front-runner. But, unfortunately, he seems to have more momentum than many people (and the media in general) are giving him credit for. I expect that to change now, though. All the doubts people have had about his chances of winning the primary can likely be chalked up to his somewhat insincere approach thus far, his lack of a solid ground campaign, and his... uh... what was the third thing... umm... EPA? ;-)
Yea, you can believe in good faith that these were questionable.
Rather amazingly naive but not full blown fantasy land.
I want to punch the next person who brings up Clinton though. As far as I remember nobody once said that Monica was unwilling. As far as I had heard it was a mutually consenting affair, admittedly with a power imbalance, but still very different than "Fuck me and you get a job!"
You don't settle if there is absolutely nothing to it. To do so would encourage pretty much everybody to do it. That is beside the point when two women who did settle out of court and multiple others saying they were harassed suggests it wasn't an isolated case of a malcontent employee, and it is hard to believe there is no fire with those numbers.
I'm left to conclude that whoever is still supporting this guy is deluding themselves and/or straight up misogynistic.
Or they're willing to overlook it.
If Bill Clinton was running for a third term, I'd probably vote for him, even though you shouldn't cheat on your wife. And even though you shouldn't ask someone to engage in sexytimes if you have enormous power over them. (Bill Clinton was the most powerful man in the world at the time.)
edit: haha I didn't see DevoutlyApathetic's comment about Clinton
I'm left to conclude that whoever is still supporting this guy is deluding themselves and/or straight up misogynistic.
Or they're willing to overlook it.
If Bill Clinton was running for a third term, I'd probably vote for him, even though you shouldn't cheat on your wife. And even though you shouldn't ask someone to engage in sexytimes if you have enormous power over them. (Bill Clinton was the most powerful man in the world at the time.)
There is a reason adultery isn't a crime in most states while sexual harassment is. One is scummy and the other is scummy and shows a strong willingness to use power to fuck over other people.
The princess pelosi line, his lawyer threatening any harrasment women to "Think about it." And the absolute smear job he's doing to his accusers. Gee I wonder why people might think herman cain is a msyoginist sexual harraser...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
You don't settle if there is absolutely nothing to it. To do so would encourage pretty much everybody to do it. That is beside the point when two women who did settle out of court and multiple others saying they were harassed suggests it wasn't an isolated case of a malcontent employee, and it is hard to believe there is no fire with those numbers.
That's pretty much what I was getting at. But thanks for the vote of confidence, Druk.
I want to punch the next person who brings up Clinton though. As far as I remember nobody once said that Monica was unwilling. As far as I had heard it was a mutually consenting affair, admittedly with a power imbalance, but still very different than "Fuck me and you get a job!"
There was Paula Jones, though, with whom Clinton settled for a pretty huge amount of money. And also some other people who claimed sexual assault or harassment against Clinton whose cases never went to court. That said, Clinton was president at the time and not head muckamuck at a shitty pizza chain, so I can certainly see a willingness to make a problem go away in the fastest way possible whether he was guilty or not.
Still, there's evidence Clinton had a similar problem with "no means no".
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I'm willing to forgive Clinton due to his merits and current going ons. Not saying it was right, but it doesn't bother me too much. That being said, if it turns out he was overly aggressive about it in a way we aren't aware, that might change things.
Herman Cain hasn't done shit for me to look past something like this. It's just more shit on an already huge shitty pile.
My final thoughts on Clinton were that he was kind of an awful person who was an accomplished statesman and did a pretty good job of being president. Cain, on the other hand, is kind of an awful person who has terrible ideas and no relevant experience and who is probably completely fuck-a-doo bonkers.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Do you feel Clinton has improved at all since then? Cause I don't see Cain ever changing.
I want to punch the next person who brings up Clinton though. As far as I remember nobody once said that Monica was unwilling. As far as I had heard it was a mutually consenting affair, admittedly with a power imbalance, but still very different than "Fuck me and you get a job!"
There was Paula Jones, though, with whom Clinton settled for a pretty huge amount of money. And also some other people who claimed sexual assault or harassment against Clinton whose cases never went to court. That said, Clinton was president at the time and not head muckamuck at a shitty pizza chain, so I can certainly see a willingness to make a problem go away in the fastest way possible whether he was guilty or not.
Still, there's evidence Clinton had a similar problem with "no means no".
If that's true, then that makes him a shitty person, at least in that regard. But as Magus said, he's contributed his time and effort to some very worthy causes post-presidency and this does give him some 'moral capital', so to speak. Still, I got the impression that Clinton was a horn-dog, not so much a straight up misogynist. That's a fine line, I know, but it's there.
With regard to Paula Jones, at least, she came out later and divulged how she was propped up and encouraged by forces on the right to do and say what she did. She had some nasty things to say about those people, IIRC, and may have recanted what she'd said about Clinton, though I can't remember if she went that far or not.
I actually didn't know that about Jones. Interesting.
Anyway.
I finally got to see the Perry moment last night. It was beautiful.
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I actually didn't know that about Jones. Interesting.
Anyway.
I finally got to see the Perry moment last night. It was beautiful.
Its so cringe worthy. Rachel played it like three times, and each time it was awful. Its scary he's taking that and running with "Golly gee there is so much government I plumb forgot." And so far looks to be working.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
If he was an actor or something it would be kind of funny. This is a guy in theory running for president of the US. And that thought is more terrifying than a penn state shower room.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Anything short of raping and then eating babies just won't stick to these people because their base is comprised of idiots. Sorry, not idiots--just people eager to overlook, conceivably, anything. I'd say they're brainwashed, but that's a loaded term, even if it is apt. Reasonable doubt for them stretches the definition of the word reasonable to its limits.
You don't settle if there is absolutely nothing to it. To do so would encourage pretty much everybody to do it. That is beside the point when two women who did settle out of court and multiple others saying they were harassed suggests it wasn't an isolated case of a malcontent employee, and it is hard to believe there is no fire with those numbers.
I've seen tons of people settle on the most ridiculous shit for five figures when litigation would have easily broken six. Hell, I've seen people confess and enter guilty pleas for things they didn't actually do because they were convinced that a guaranteed minor misdemeanor and two years of probation was better than rolling the dice with a jury on a possible felony conviction and a minimum of six months in jail.
That the NRA paid out a settlement years ago isn't necessarily as of as much importance to me as the fact that he's obviously an asshole right now.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
I actually didn't know that about Jones. Interesting.
Anyway.
I finally got to see the Perry moment last night. It was beautiful.
Its so cringe worthy. Rachel played it like three times, and each time it was awful. Its scary he's taking that and running with "Golly gee there is so much government I plumb forgot." And so far looks to be working.
It gave me flashbacks of Howard Dean's frantic damage control.
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
That scene terrified me. For years afterwards ( I saw it when I was 6) I imagined all sorts of things lurking down in the drain. Giant Ants, Spiders, Snakes, etc etc.
Yeah I'll agree the corpse of Ron Paul going "No five." Like a doddering shop keeper trying to sell Perry some gum was kind of the tipping point in awkward town.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The republican base doesn't particularly care about the sexual harassment allegations because they wouldn't care about any allegations short of, like you said, eating a baby or something. They just get filed away under the broad heading of "people attacking our candidate!"
(not that this is the exclusive domain of the right wing, they just seem to be the best at it)
Not to mention the variety of right wing talking head types who apparently don't believe sexual harassment is a real thing.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
You know, I actually sympathize with Perry a bit here. This goes back to my time in theater while still in High School.
You see, I was a young buck back then--shy as all get out. How I ended up in theater I'm not sure, though it was probably the girls. In any case, I was the original pick to play Carry Grant's part in the school's production of Arsenic and Old Lace. But I, lacking confidence, and despite everyone urging me to take the part that I had reluctantly auditioned for and was given, stubbornly refused. Cut to two days prior to the show during dress rehearsal. The guy who took the part instead (whom no one really liked and kind of stank at acting) just straight stopped showing up. This devastated everyone, as they were all really excited to do the show. And for some reason no understudy had been chosen. Inevitably, all eyes turned toward me, who had settled on a bit part as an old man. The combination of peer pressure and guilt at my original mistake convinced me to go ahead and do what I should have in the first place. We pushed the show back two weeks so I could (try to) learn my lines.
Suffice it to say, two weeks isn't a lot of time to memorize an entire fucking movie script (we ended up just using the screenplay without really doing much to adapt it to stage besides adding blocking). We only had time for one dress rehearsal this time, and it went abysmally. Panic began to set in. By the time it came for me to actually get up there and do it, I'd only solidly gotten about half of my lines committed to memory. I spent all my time offstage a complete nervous mess, desperately trying to get the next scene's lines down.
And of course, it happened. In the next scene I'm alone on the stage when a phone rings. Only I have no idea what the hell I'm supposed to say when I pick it up. I freeze completely; no words escape my lips. At a loss, I slowly put the phone down, figuring this is a mistake that can't be recovered from. But the show must go on, right? So I lift the phone once more and start ad-libbing something that I vaguely thought resembled how the conversation was supposed to go. Whatever meandering thing I said jogs my memory and the real lines begin pouring out. I swear I hear the collective sigh of the audience at this point. The sheer terror of this moment still haunts my dreams.
Granted, having faced my worst fear and come through it, the rest of the show went great and I was actually emboldened by the whole thing. But that first couple seconds of dead air, where I knew I was supposed to say something but just couldn't... words fail to describe the abject horror I experienced. Hell, just writing about it sent shivers up my spine.
So I can only imagine the expletives flying through Perry's mind as he sat there, completely at a loss for what that third agency was. In a sense, I was right there, cringing with him.
Perry's not a teenager memorizing a play, though, he's the governor of one of the largest american states.
It's also not as though he just flubbed on a fact or a citation or something. We're talking about defunding entire federal departments; the decision to do so (we assume) springs from some system of beliefs about how government ought to work. The issue isn't that Perry said three instead of two or that in the moment, he couldn't get his mouth to produce the words "department of energy" or whatever. The issue is that given the opportunity to extemporaneously explain what he was talking about, he couldn't do it.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Perry's not a teenager memorizing a play, though, he's the governor of one of the largest american states.
It's also not as though he just flubbed on a fact or a citation or something. We're talking about defunding entire federal departments; the decision to do so (we assume) springs from some system of beliefs about how government ought to work. The issue isn't that Perry said three instead of two or that in the moment, he couldn't get his mouth to produce the words "department of energy" or whatever. The issue is that given the opportunity to extemporaneously explain what he was talking about, he couldn't do it.
The big problem I have is that what departments he named are completely irrelevant because outside of Defense the GOP would support eliminating pretty much any of them. So Perry could not name 3 departments that would be under him as president.
I guess he gets points for not taking Paul's EPA prompt. Or, would if he had ever thought of a third.
He did take pauls epa prompt and the realized what he said and then said its need to be rebuilt? (I wasn't aware it had been destroyed, let alone a republican wants it stronger? perhaps more packed with corporate cronies to let another gulf coast oil spill).
And getting rid of the DOE would be crippling on our country because they manage our nuclear energy tech and no other department could feasibly take that over. So you'd have to shut the reactors down.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
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I'm sure I don't have to comment on what this says about his base... but what the hell, this is the internet, I'll do it anyway.
Clearly, the narrative here is that these are just a bunch of gold-digging strumpets who probably put out and regretted it later. I've heard remarks to the effect of, "Well, I wouldn't have waited fourteen years to bring these charges to light," tossed about as if to say that just because these events took place in the past, they don't count. Can you imagine if we'd said the same thing to all the people molested as children by their priests? (Though I guess some people tried to). But the cognitive dissonance is already there, entrenched, and good luck getting by that.
I have to imagine that his base really, really wants him to win. Otherwise, they'd have to vote for a guy that makes Dubya look like a Rhodes Scholar or for a Mormon. And those simply aren't options at this point, so they rationalize it any way they can. I'm willing to bet that even if there was video of Cain in the act of actually harassing these women most of his supporters would just dig their heels in and start with the apologist crap.
I'm left to conclude that whoever is still supporting this guy is deluding themselves and/or straight up misogynistic. Because we all know that something had to have happened--otherwise, why was there a settlement? And if what was said about the second woman being outed by news outlets rather than coming forward herself is true, well... all the more likely that this really happened. And frankly, from what I've seen of his demeanor and general outlook, it's not a stretch for me to assume he's exactly the kind of man who'd think highly enough of himself, and so little of others (particularly women), that he'd do exactly what he's being accused of.
Myself, I sincerely hope that Cain isn't the front-runner. But, unfortunately, he seems to have more momentum than many people (and the media in general) are giving him credit for. I expect that to change now, though. All the doubts people have had about his chances of winning the primary can likely be chalked up to his somewhat insincere approach thus far, his lack of a solid ground campaign, and his... uh... what was the third thing... umm... EPA? ;-)
Please tell me you've never been on an American jury.
Rather amazingly naive but not full blown fantasy land.
I want to punch the next person who brings up Clinton though. As far as I remember nobody once said that Monica was unwilling. As far as I had heard it was a mutually consenting affair, admittedly with a power imbalance, but still very different than "Fuck me and you get a job!"
If Bill Clinton was running for a third term, I'd probably vote for him, even though you shouldn't cheat on your wife. And even though you shouldn't ask someone to engage in sexytimes if you have enormous power over them. (Bill Clinton was the most powerful man in the world at the time.)
edit: haha I didn't see DevoutlyApathetic's comment about Clinton
There is a reason adultery isn't a crime in most states while sexual harassment is. One is scummy and the other is scummy and shows a strong willingness to use power to fuck over other people.
pleasepaypreacher.net
That's pretty much what I was getting at. But thanks for the vote of confidence, Druk.
There was Paula Jones, though, with whom Clinton settled for a pretty huge amount of money. And also some other people who claimed sexual assault or harassment against Clinton whose cases never went to court. That said, Clinton was president at the time and not head muckamuck at a shitty pizza chain, so I can certainly see a willingness to make a problem go away in the fastest way possible whether he was guilty or not.
Still, there's evidence Clinton had a similar problem with "no means no".
Herman Cain hasn't done shit for me to look past something like this. It's just more shit on an already huge shitty pile.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
If that's true, then that makes him a shitty person, at least in that regard. But as Magus said, he's contributed his time and effort to some very worthy causes post-presidency and this does give him some 'moral capital', so to speak. Still, I got the impression that Clinton was a horn-dog, not so much a straight up misogynist. That's a fine line, I know, but it's there.
With regard to Paula Jones, at least, she came out later and divulged how she was propped up and encouraged by forces on the right to do and say what she did. She had some nasty things to say about those people, IIRC, and may have recanted what she'd said about Clinton, though I can't remember if she went that far or not.
Anyway.
I finally got to see the Perry moment last night. It was beautiful.
Its so cringe worthy. Rachel played it like three times, and each time it was awful. Its scary he's taking that and running with "Golly gee there is so much government I plumb forgot." And so far looks to be working.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I still think he's terrible, but being willing to poke fun at himself is something I can appreciate.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1085155--letterman-s-top-10-rick-perry-excuses-by-rick-perry?bn=1
pleasepaypreacher.net
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
I've seen tons of people settle on the most ridiculous shit for five figures when litigation would have easily broken six. Hell, I've seen people confess and enter guilty pleas for things they didn't actually do because they were convinced that a guaranteed minor misdemeanor and two years of probation was better than rolling the dice with a jury on a possible felony conviction and a minimum of six months in jail.
That the NRA paid out a settlement years ago isn't necessarily as of as much importance to me as the fact that he's obviously an asshole right now.
It's only scary if you're an adolescent boy.
So, kind of like Stephen King's "It".
Ron Paul's senile contempt was the most amusing part to me.
It gave me flashbacks of Howard Dean's frantic damage control.
That scene terrified me. For years afterwards ( I saw it when I was 6) I imagined all sorts of things lurking down in the drain. Giant Ants, Spiders, Snakes, etc etc.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Thank god it wasn't just me. It was like "ok this is awkward put the camera on a busty coed or something."
pleasepaypreacher.net
Because holy shit.
Edit - WOW am I slow, finally reading back through the thread. :x
(not that this is the exclusive domain of the right wing, they just seem to be the best at it)
Not to mention the variety of right wing talking head types who apparently don't believe sexual harassment is a real thing.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
You see, I was a young buck back then--shy as all get out. How I ended up in theater I'm not sure, though it was probably the girls. In any case, I was the original pick to play Carry Grant's part in the school's production of Arsenic and Old Lace. But I, lacking confidence, and despite everyone urging me to take the part that I had reluctantly auditioned for and was given, stubbornly refused. Cut to two days prior to the show during dress rehearsal. The guy who took the part instead (whom no one really liked and kind of stank at acting) just straight stopped showing up. This devastated everyone, as they were all really excited to do the show. And for some reason no understudy had been chosen. Inevitably, all eyes turned toward me, who had settled on a bit part as an old man. The combination of peer pressure and guilt at my original mistake convinced me to go ahead and do what I should have in the first place. We pushed the show back two weeks so I could (try to) learn my lines.
Suffice it to say, two weeks isn't a lot of time to memorize an entire fucking movie script (we ended up just using the screenplay without really doing much to adapt it to stage besides adding blocking). We only had time for one dress rehearsal this time, and it went abysmally. Panic began to set in. By the time it came for me to actually get up there and do it, I'd only solidly gotten about half of my lines committed to memory. I spent all my time offstage a complete nervous mess, desperately trying to get the next scene's lines down.
And of course, it happened. In the next scene I'm alone on the stage when a phone rings. Only I have no idea what the hell I'm supposed to say when I pick it up. I freeze completely; no words escape my lips. At a loss, I slowly put the phone down, figuring this is a mistake that can't be recovered from. But the show must go on, right? So I lift the phone once more and start ad-libbing something that I vaguely thought resembled how the conversation was supposed to go. Whatever meandering thing I said jogs my memory and the real lines begin pouring out. I swear I hear the collective sigh of the audience at this point. The sheer terror of this moment still haunts my dreams.
Granted, having faced my worst fear and come through it, the rest of the show went great and I was actually emboldened by the whole thing. But that first couple seconds of dead air, where I knew I was supposed to say something but just couldn't... words fail to describe the abject horror I experienced. Hell, just writing about it sent shivers up my spine.
So I can only imagine the expletives flying through Perry's mind as he sat there, completely at a loss for what that third agency was. In a sense, I was right there, cringing with him.
So we should keep him away from penn state?
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's also not as though he just flubbed on a fact or a citation or something. We're talking about defunding entire federal departments; the decision to do so (we assume) springs from some system of beliefs about how government ought to work. The issue isn't that Perry said three instead of two or that in the moment, he couldn't get his mouth to produce the words "department of energy" or whatever. The issue is that given the opportunity to extemporaneously explain what he was talking about, he couldn't do it.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Gay marry me.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Does this picture turn you on?
The big problem I have is that what departments he named are completely irrelevant because outside of Defense the GOP would support eliminating pretty much any of them. So Perry could not name 3 departments that would be under him as president.
I guess he gets points for not taking Paul's EPA prompt. Or, would if he had ever thought of a third.
And getting rid of the DOE would be crippling on our country because they manage our nuclear energy tech and no other department could feasibly take that over. So you'd have to shut the reactors down.
pleasepaypreacher.net