Is Grim Fandango really that bad? I played through it "back in the day" and again recently, having completely forgotten everything about it, and I haven't had to pick up a guide just yet.
I'm currently replaying Grim Fandango, and I find some of the puzzles rather roundabout, but when you get the solution you can usually see how the game did provide hints, which I think is fair.
There are a couple of puzzles and situations, though, where something doesn't work (yet) because you're standing in the wrong place or didn't wait long enough, and that I find annoying. Two cases in point:
- Locking the Waiter in Year 2 in the pantry. At least for me the guy only showed up after I'd been standing around in the room for half a minute. As a player I'm not keen on waiting around in likely places without any concrete reason to do so, just in case something is only triggered after a while. At least give me an indication that the waiter goes in there on a regular basis; if that happens in the game, it didn't happen while I was playing it.
- Year 3: Having to wait a couple of times for the guy with the lamp to walk by before he'll talk to you - and it's a wait of about a minute. Then, once you're holding him, clicking on Glottis so he picks up the guy by his lantern. It's not always clear when a follow-up action is required, when it's time-sensitive etc., and this is a situation where you might come away thinking you're doing the wrong thing when really you're doing the right thing but one more click is required.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I only got hung up for a loooong time on one thing, and it was for vella's side Re: Making a Bomb
I had no idea there was a "down arrow" in the engine room area. I walked into that room five times before I noticed it. This is probably the ONLY set-back to not having replayed Act 1. I remembered the rest of the ship's layout no problem.
Wait, people don't keep a notebook/scratchpad on their computer desks in case of adventure game puzzles?
Cyan has taught me well.
I think I filled an entire spiral-bound notebook on The Fool's Errand alone.
That was also the era of needing graph paper to map out Wizardry and The Bard's Tale dungeons.
We are coddled today.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
I like that if you screw up the boot puzzle enough times the game literally draws you a chart to fill out. hahaha... No game, I KNOW what I needed to do, I am just dumb and kept forgetting things.
(what I didn't like was the game had Vella walk through one of the teleporters to do it, fucking up my head size and making me resolve that damn puzzle for absolutely no reason since you can get to that room without using a teleporter - in less screens even I think!)
I am a ways into both stories in Act 2 now though. The puzzles have been decent, but I am not liking all the "you need to walk back across five screens to an area you were JUST in to figure out one thing to solve this puzzle, then come back" puzzles. It's kind of tedious. And the fast screen skip only tends to work in one direction (since you have to scroll the arrows into view first)
I don't think you can get to the Junk room without using the teleport at that point, because isn't Malek blocking the other way? Unless I'm forgetting a door.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I don't think you can get to the Junk room without using the teleport at that point, because isn't Malek blocking the other way? Unless I'm forgetting a door.
Nope, because I did it several times. You're probably thinking of the nav room.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
There, beat the game. Overall I liked it a lot, though act 2 seemed a bit rougher than act 1 in some areas. Maybe they will fix that with patches (I know Act 1 was a bit of a mess when it first came out too but it seemed much better playing it again).
ughh, I've reached that point that I usually get to in adventure games where I can't solve a puzzle after hours, then I look up the answer and get mad at the game/designers
specifically, in Vella Act 2 (puzzle solution spoilers)
when you need to change the nav scarf with the hook while it's being weaved...apparently the pattern you need to weave it is in Shay's side of the story.
I would never have thought of that, ever. In act 1 you could complete both sides of the story independently without having to switch between them, this feels like a betrayal to introduce this sort of mechanic without any precedent or hint.
This puzzle was complete bullshit. This is the only one I think that truly applies to. But seriously, I KNEW it was on Shay's side, but there is a god damn star chart on the diamond ship. That's NOT the star chart you're supposed to use though. You're supposed to somehow figure out the pattern by having Alex PLAY THEM ON A HARMONICA and somehow translate that to notes. I'm sorry, that's crap. I think a lot of reviewers bitched about that puzzle too.
I'll also say the game does a piss poor job of letting you know when you're "supposed" to be stuck, since certain puzzles require a specific amount of progress in the other person's story. This isn't really communicated well at all, and at one point I was clicking everything in Alex's ship trying to make something happen because I couldn't leave it, but there didn't seem to be any way I could progress. Turns out I was right! The solution was to not be there and go do Vella's side some more. Seriously game, you need clues for that stuff.
I also need to express my disappointment that when Vella uses the knife on something and says "I don't want to cut that", the knife no longer says "I do!" That made me sad
There, beat the game. Overall I liked it a lot, though act 2 seemed a bit rougher than act 1 in some areas. Maybe they will fix that with patches (I know Act 1 was a bit of a mess when it first came out too but it seemed much better playing it again).
ughh, I've reached that point that I usually get to in adventure games where I can't solve a puzzle after hours, then I look up the answer and get mad at the game/designers
specifically, in Vella Act 2 (puzzle solution spoilers)
when you need to change the nav scarf with the hook while it's being weaved...apparently the pattern you need to weave it is in Shay's side of the story.
I would never have thought of that, ever. In act 1 you could complete both sides of the story independently without having to switch between them, this feels like a betrayal to introduce this sort of mechanic without any precedent or hint.
This puzzle was complete bullshit. This is the only one I think that truly applies to. But seriously, I KNEW it was on Shay's side, but there is a god damn star chart on the diamond ship. That's NOT the star chart you're supposed to use though. You're supposed to somehow figure out the pattern by having Alex PLAY THEM ON A HARMONICA and somehow translate that to notes. I'm sorry, that's crap. I think a lot of reviewers bitched about that puzzle too.
I'll also say the game does a piss poor job of letting you know when you're "supposed" to be stuck, since certain puzzles require a specific amount of progress in the other person's story. This isn't really communicated well at all, and at one point I was clicking everything in Alex's ship trying to make something happen because I couldn't leave it, but there didn't seem to be any way I could progress. Turns out I was right! The solution was to not be there and go do Vella's side some more. Seriously game, you need clues for that stuff.
I also need to express my disappointment that when Vella uses the knife on something and says "I don't want to cut that", the knife no longer says "I do!" That made me sad
When you finish Shay's side doesn't he ask if there is anything else Alex needs and he goes "No, we have everything, just wait for launch". It seemed clear to me that Shay was done there.
There, beat the game. Overall I liked it a lot, though act 2 seemed a bit rougher than act 1 in some areas. Maybe they will fix that with patches (I know Act 1 was a bit of a mess when it first came out too but it seemed much better playing it again).
ughh, I've reached that point that I usually get to in adventure games where I can't solve a puzzle after hours, then I look up the answer and get mad at the game/designers
specifically, in Vella Act 2 (puzzle solution spoilers)
when you need to change the nav scarf with the hook while it's being weaved...apparently the pattern you need to weave it is in Shay's side of the story.
I would never have thought of that, ever. In act 1 you could complete both sides of the story independently without having to switch between them, this feels like a betrayal to introduce this sort of mechanic without any precedent or hint.
This puzzle was complete bullshit. This is the only one I think that truly applies to. But seriously, I KNEW it was on Shay's side, but there is a god damn star chart on the diamond ship. That's NOT the star chart you're supposed to use though. You're supposed to somehow figure out the pattern by having Alex PLAY THEM ON A HARMONICA and somehow translate that to notes. I'm sorry, that's crap. I think a lot of reviewers bitched about that puzzle too.
I'll also say the game does a piss poor job of letting you know when you're "supposed" to be stuck, since certain puzzles require a specific amount of progress in the other person's story. This isn't really communicated well at all, and at one point I was clicking everything in Alex's ship trying to make something happen because I couldn't leave it, but there didn't seem to be any way I could progress. Turns out I was right! The solution was to not be there and go do Vella's side some more. Seriously game, you need clues for that stuff.
I also need to express my disappointment that when Vella uses the knife on something and says "I don't want to cut that", the knife no longer says "I do!" That made me sad
I had the same problem too, but with Shay's side. Having been expressly told that Act 1 didn't require meta knowledge from the other characters, I wasn't expecting it in act 2. SO I played Shay all the way up until i needed the rewire codes. Started trying to suss them out, and then he says "I wish I was on my ship." and I said..ya know...fuck it. Maybe it's not the same for act 2", and started vella.
I disagree about the Vella nav scarf puzzle. I thought that was brilliant! We knew Alex's ship was music based, but that it still represented navigation with spaces on a grid. Having alex play the notes, and hearing they were simple High/mid/lows was great.
I somehow missed whatever dialog framed the "last destination" pattern as different from the music sheet on the wall. I kept trying to figure out how 4 notes translated to the 6-dot pattern (with one dot smudged??? IS THIS A CLUE???). I knew that they had mentioned that it was the code for the town, and I figured that was what I needed to enter. I thought the whistle clue was actually about the pattern needing to be the INVERSE of the dots shown, because it's about "holding down holes on a wind instrument" and "what holes are left visible". Or "direction of reading" since the scarf moved vertically and music notes are read horizontally. Tons of trying to figure out how to reconfigure the notes on the wall into the scarf from the 4 notes played. Whatever line of dialog was supposed to make Shay even aware that a "return to last destination" pattern existed, and give him any reason to want to hear it was missing or unclear.
GSM on
We'll get back there someday.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I somehow missed whatever dialog framed the "last destination" pattern as different from the music sheet on the wall. I kept trying to figure out how 4 notes translated to the 6-dot pattern (with one dot smudged??? IS THIS A CLUE???). I knew that they had mentioned that it was the code for the town, and I figured that was what I needed to enter. I thought the whistle clue was actually about the pattern needing to be the INVERSE of the dots shown, because it's about "holding down holes on a wind instrument" and "what holes are left visible". Or "direction of reading" since the scarf moved vertically and music notes are read horizontally. Tons of trying to figure out how to reconfigure the notes on the wall into the scarf from the 4 notes played. Whatever line of dialog was supposed to make Shay even aware that a "return to last destination" pattern existed, and give him any reason to want to hear it was missing or unclear.
This is exactly what I thought too.
After all, the notes on the wall were the pattern for Prima Doom, aka Shellmound. Isn't that where Vella probably wanted to go? Wasn't that Alex's last destination? I still don't understand the logic of that puzzle.
I thought maybe the sheet was upside down or I had to somehow give the nav chart to the weaver upside down. But nope.
I did finally get the solution once I gave up trying to reconcile the two patterns and started looking at each in isolation. Combination lock puzzles can lead to frustration if you make the player think they need to do some arduous translation process to get the answer, because there's no way they'll know if they're right until they've done every translation permutation you accidentally left open.
Weirdly, I really liked the knot puzzle. I've seen that one criticized a lot.
I spent a while trying to figure out if the dummy options were actually some kind of a state machine, but when the same option on the same knot yielded a different knot, I went looking elsewhere. Once I had the instructions, I was at a loss for a while trying to figure out how the verbal instructions tied (lol) to the visual ones, but once it clicked I had a good chuckle. Kind of a comic rorschach test.
We'll get back there someday.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
The knot puzzle was fine. I mean, they give you a picture with the answer :P It did take me a couple tries to realize how the options matched up with the picture, but overall it wasn't unfair or anything.
Oh, and one particular bloody puzzle involving abstract descriptions of knots deserves its own book to properly break down just how utterly dreadful it really is.
Adventure game puzzles really do create a wide range of reactions. One thing that really became a red herring for me was the "no hexagons!" error message when you first put the hexapal in the thing. I kept thinking I was going to have to change his shape somehow.
I actually liked the knot puzzle; when I saw the possible responses to Carol and checked my sketch, I thought, "Hmm... Well... It actually *does* look like her!" Afterwards, describing what the individual steps looked like, while not particularly difficult, was delightfully odd.
What I really minded, though, was Marek and his role in Act II:
I found him fascinating in Act I. The writing was mysterious and ominous, the wolf costume was great - but then he turns into a clear-cut, boring villain, complete with boring visual design. He could've remained somewhat ambiguous, since he seems the only one of his people who actually value Shay and Vella for what they have to offer, even if he's quite ruthless about it. What we got, though, was a boringly generic Star Trek villain on a comm screen.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
The last episode of the documentary is out now. It's a bittersweet ending to the whole thing. Tim's "I regret nothing" monologue is a little odd, but I guess I get why he felt he needed to make that clear. Sad to see it end, but I'm glad they've been posting videos on the development of Massive Chalice as well. Always a pleasure to get a glimpse of their development process, as unique as it is.
The box! They screwed up the box! They shrink wrapped it with Shay in Vella's world! Spoilers! Why does this bother me so much!!
For me it was especially episode 19 that got me right in the feels. Episode 20 felt a bit like a hangover after a three-year bender; episode 19 was an emotional rollercoaster for me.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I really need to sit down and watch the rest of the documentary. I followed along with it for the first 6-7 episodes, then decided I wanted to wait until the game was done. Now that the game is done...well, I'm not done with the game yet.
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There are a couple of puzzles and situations, though, where something doesn't work (yet) because you're standing in the wrong place or didn't wait long enough, and that I find annoying. Two cases in point:
- Year 3: Having to wait a couple of times for the guy with the lamp to walk by before he'll talk to you - and it's a wait of about a minute. Then, once you're holding him, clicking on Glottis so he picks up the guy by his lantern. It's not always clear when a follow-up action is required, when it's time-sensitive etc., and this is a situation where you might come away thinking you're doing the wrong thing when really you're doing the right thing but one more click is required.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I only got hung up for a loooong time on one thing, and it was for vella's side Re: Making a Bomb
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Cyan has taught me well.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
That was also the era of needing graph paper to map out Wizardry and The Bard's Tale dungeons.
We are coddled today.
I am a ways into both stories in Act 2 now though. The puzzles have been decent, but I am not liking all the "you need to walk back across five screens to an area you were JUST in to figure out one thing to solve this puzzle, then come back" puzzles. It's kind of tedious. And the fast screen skip only tends to work in one direction (since you have to scroll the arrows into view first)
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Nope, because I did it several times. You're probably thinking of the nav room.
Which, the main problem was this:
I'll also say the game does a piss poor job of letting you know when you're "supposed" to be stuck, since certain puzzles require a specific amount of progress in the other person's story. This isn't really communicated well at all, and at one point I was clicking everything in Alex's ship trying to make something happen because I couldn't leave it, but there didn't seem to be any way I could progress. Turns out I was right! The solution was to not be there and go do Vella's side some more. Seriously game, you need clues for that stuff.
I also need to express my disappointment that when Vella uses the knife on something and says "I don't want to cut that", the knife no longer says "I do!" That made me sad
I disagree about the Vella nav scarf puzzle. I thought that was brilliant! We knew Alex's ship was music based, but that it still represented navigation with spaces on a grid. Having alex play the notes, and hearing they were simple High/mid/lows was great.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
This is exactly what I thought too.
I thought maybe the sheet was upside down or I had to somehow give the nav chart to the weaver upside down. But nope.
Weirdly, I really liked the knot puzzle. I've seen that one criticized a lot.
Adventure game puzzles really do create a wide range of reactions. One thing that really became a red herring for me was the "no hexagons!" error message when you first put the hexapal in the thing. I kept thinking I was going to have to change his shape somehow.
I actually liked the knot puzzle; when I saw the possible responses to Carol and checked my sketch, I thought, "Hmm... Well... It actually *does* look like her!" Afterwards, describing what the individual steps looked like, while not particularly difficult, was delightfully odd.
What I really minded, though, was Marek and his role in Act II:
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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