This thread reminds me, the Fine Bros are doing a "Teens React" series on this game. It's super entertaining!
I don't have a child yet, and my reaction was basically like the brunette girl. I was sitting on the couch bawling. I can only imagine what it would have been like for a dad to play that.
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
When I first played TLOU I was a guy in his late 20's with no responsibilities save for his two cats and his job. I had to put the controller down and stop for a little while because I was completely choked up by the time that the title card came on screen. I don't think there's been a game that's tugged at my emotional response as hard before it, or since.
The truth is the Fireflies are no better, if not worse, than the people they fight against. They could just do what Tommy's group did and try to create a new home. Instead they're fighting some sort of ridiculous guerrilla war against the ghost of whatever government forces are left behind. Like, we see no indications that the guys in the tanks are going out of their way to find people in the middle of nowhere and kill them. They're literally just patrolling whatever ground they control and trying to impose some sort of order with whatever limited resources they have left. If you don't like how they are doing things then just fucking leave. It's clearly not that hard.
They're also clearly a dying organization, because of their aforementioned lack of a home supply. Like, if they find a vaccine, so what? Do they have a way of mass producing it? How would they administer it to the rest of the population? Who would believe them if they could? Why should anyone trust that they can pull off something like that in light of everything you've seen in the game?
We're conditioned in video games to root for groups like the Fireflies, especially since they are supposedly the idealist rebels, but the reality is that they are clearly just grasping at straws, trying to find a way to justify everything they have done and will do. Keep in mind that they were formed before they even knew Ellie existed, so using her to find a cure for humanity is not some sort of enlightened goal so much as a desperate last gasp.
If anything, the smart thing to do is go back to Tommy's group and keep Ellie alive in pursuit of some kind of long-term cure. There is absolutely no reason to cut into her head RIGHT NOW. Why wouldn't you do more testing, rebuild a better infrastructure, and hope that a better answer comes along? Especially since there is absolutely no guarantee that killing her will magically produce a cure?
I think a more logical course of action would be to
see if Ellie's immunity is genetic. Can she pass it on to offspring? That could ultimately be the salvation of the human race. Not a manufactured cure, but a natural evolution. It would make more sense to protect the immune above all else that they may pass their gift on to future generations. Makes more sense to me to see if she can pass on her immunity to her children before anyone goes removing her brain with no guarantee that anything would come of it. Now, how Ellie would feel about being asked to get busy makin' babies is a whole 'nother can of worms.
Hah, this was my initial prediction for how it'd go down! :P
That we'd get there and it'd turn out to be a human farm
This thread reminds me, the Fine Bros are doing a "Teens React" series on this game. It's super entertaining!
I don't have a child yet, and my reaction was basically like the brunette girl. I was sitting on the couch bawling. I can only imagine what it would have been like for a dad to play that.
I can speak to this actually. I waited to play the PS4 version and had somehow stayed pretty unaware of the game. At the time I started playing my daughter was 4. I had already decided it was one of those games I would only play while she was either asleep or not home. My wife happened to be in the room when I first started playing the game. We both kind of lost it at "the moment". It hit hard. It also hardened the notion of "I will do anything to protect my child" a little bit. Weird to say it, but a game helped me to remember never take a single moment for granted.
By the time the title screen hit we went upstairs and gave our daughter a hug. It was past her bedtime, but like many kids she wasn't asleep yet. We said our "I love you"s and she went to sleep and we went back downstairs. I kept playing the game. I think because of the whole thing there were other moments throughout my playtime over the next week or so where I would pause the game and go upstairs and give her a seemingly random hug. Now she just gets them all the time.
I do agree without the uncle Tommy stuff the game would be almost oppressively bleak. I would have been fine with that, but it was a very nice breather sequence.
The truth is the Fireflies are no better, if not worse, than the people they fight against. They could just do what Tommy's group did and try to create a new home. Instead they're fighting some sort of ridiculous guerrilla war against the ghost of whatever government forces are left behind. Like, we see no indications that the guys in the tanks are going out of their way to find people in the middle of nowhere and kill them. They're literally just patrolling whatever ground they control and trying to impose some sort of order with whatever limited resources they have left. If you don't like how they are doing things then just fucking leave. It's clearly not that hard.
They're also clearly a dying organization, because of their aforementioned lack of a home supply. Like, if they find a vaccine, so what? Do they have a way of mass producing it? How would they administer it to the rest of the population? Who would believe them if they could? Why should anyone trust that they can pull off something like that in light of everything you've seen in the game?
We're conditioned in video games to root for groups like the Fireflies, especially since they are supposedly the idealist rebels, but the reality is that they are clearly just grasping at straws, trying to find a way to justify everything they have done and will do. Keep in mind that they were formed before they even knew Ellie existed, so using her to find a cure for humanity is not some sort of enlightened goal so much as a desperate last gasp.
If anything, the smart thing to do is go back to Tommy's group and keep Ellie alive in pursuit of some kind of long-term cure. There is absolutely no reason to cut into her head RIGHT NOW. Why wouldn't you do more testing, rebuild a better infrastructure, and hope that a better answer comes along? Especially since there is absolutely no guarantee that killing her will magically produce a cure?
I think a more logical course of action would be to
see if Ellie's immunity is genetic. Can she pass it on to offspring? That could ultimately be the salvation of the human race. Not a manufactured cure, but a natural evolution. It would make more sense to protect the immune above all else that they may pass their gift on to future generations. Makes more sense to me to see if she can pass on her immunity to her children before anyone goes removing her brain with no guarantee that anything would come of it. Now, how Ellie would feel about being asked to get busy makin' babies is a whole 'nother can of worms.
Can't the disease be spread through saliva and blood? Which is why when someone has been bitten by an infected they always turn? Wouldn't getting intimate with Ellie cause the same thing?
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AnarCHrisTrash LordNew York CityRegistered Userregular
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
Agreed. On one hand, I applaud Naughty Dog for letting Joel get away with the shit he pulled on a creative level. On the other hand, I played Bioshock Infinite the same year, and liked the fact that Booker was punished for his crime, where as Joel was not. Which irked me. I get the "If you're a father, this the ending may hit you harder" logic, but that's also sort of lazy considering not all of us are.
The truth is the Fireflies are no better, if not worse, than the people they fight against. They could just do what Tommy's group did and try to create a new home. Instead they're fighting some sort of ridiculous guerrilla war against the ghost of whatever government forces are left behind. Like, we see no indications that the guys in the tanks are going out of their way to find people in the middle of nowhere and kill them. They're literally just patrolling whatever ground they control and trying to impose some sort of order with whatever limited resources they have left. If you don't like how they are doing things then just fucking leave. It's clearly not that hard.
They're also clearly a dying organization, because of their aforementioned lack of a home supply. Like, if they find a vaccine, so what? Do they have a way of mass producing it? How would they administer it to the rest of the population? Who would believe them if they could? Why should anyone trust that they can pull off something like that in light of everything you've seen in the game?
We're conditioned in video games to root for groups like the Fireflies, especially since they are supposedly the idealist rebels, but the reality is that they are clearly just grasping at straws, trying to find a way to justify everything they have done and will do. Keep in mind that they were formed before they even knew Ellie existed, so using her to find a cure for humanity is not some sort of enlightened goal so much as a desperate last gasp.
If anything, the smart thing to do is go back to Tommy's group and keep Ellie alive in pursuit of some kind of long-term cure. There is absolutely no reason to cut into her head RIGHT NOW. Why wouldn't you do more testing, rebuild a better infrastructure, and hope that a better answer comes along? Especially since there is absolutely no guarantee that killing her will magically produce a cure?
I think a more logical course of action would be to
see if Ellie's immunity is genetic. Can she pass it on to offspring? That could ultimately be the salvation of the human race. Not a manufactured cure, but a natural evolution. It would make more sense to protect the immune above all else that they may pass their gift on to future generations. Makes more sense to me to see if she can pass on her immunity to her children before anyone goes removing her brain with no guarantee that anything would come of it. Now, how Ellie would feel about being asked to get busy makin' babies is a whole 'nother can of worms.
Can't the disease be spread through saliva and blood? Which is why when someone has been bitten by an infected they always turn? Wouldn't getting intimate with Ellie cause the same thing?
What, all of the turkey basters were destroyed in the apocalypse? :P
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
Agreed. On one hand, I applaud Naughty Dog for letting Joel get away with the shit he pulled on a creative level. On the other hand, I played Bioshock Infinite the same year, and liked the fact that Booker was punished for his crime, where as Joel was not. Which irked me. I get the "If you're a father, this the ending may hit you harder" logic, but that's also sort of lazy considering not all of us are.
Booker is a helluva lot worse then Joel, though. Seriously, Booker is a total fuck.
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
Agreed. On one hand, I applaud Naughty Dog for letting Joel get away with the shit he pulled on a creative level. On the other hand, I played Bioshock Infinite the same year, and liked the fact that Booker was punished for his crime, where as Joel was not. Which irked me. I get the "If you're a father, this the ending may hit you harder" logic, but that's also sort of lazy considering not all of us are.
I'm fairly certain Ellie knew Joel was lying. Otherwise their convo at the end kinda comes out of nowhere.
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AnarCHrisTrash LordNew York CityRegistered Userregular
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
Agreed. On one hand, I applaud Naughty Dog for letting Joel get away with the shit he pulled on a creative level. On the other hand, I played Bioshock Infinite the same year, and liked the fact that Booker was punished for his crime, where as Joel was not. Which irked me. I get the "If you're a father, this the ending may hit you harder" logic, but that's also sort of lazy considering not all of us are.
Booker is a helluva lot worse then Joel, though. Seriously, Booker is a total fuck.
True, and it was good that he was punished for his crimes repeatedly. Joel never really got his come uppance which irked me to an extent, but I can appreciated ND going that route.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Put that in the list of things they shoulda checked...
Would a bite from Ellie give you the regular Cordyceps infection, or would you get her unique mutated version?
One little detail I liked was that when she drowns towards the end, Joel does not give her rescue breaths with the CPR. The guy is a capable survivor, he knows what to do. So the only reason not to start with the breaths is... he thinks her saliva could infect him.
Oh brilliant
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
Agreed. On one hand, I applaud Naughty Dog for letting Joel get away with the shit he pulled on a creative level. On the other hand, I played Bioshock Infinite the same year, and liked the fact that Booker was punished for his crime, where as Joel was not. Which irked me. I get the "If you're a father, this the ending may hit you harder" logic, but that's also sort of lazy considering not all of us are.
I'm fairly certain Ellie knew Joel was lying. Otherwise their convo at the end kinda comes out of nowhere.
Oh, definitely. The trust in the relationship is Ellie saying "OK, I'll let you make this decision for me rather than press you on your obvious lie". She's willing to depend on Joel doing what he honestly believes is best for her. As much as Joel has gained a daughter, Ellie now also has a parental figure for the first time since her mother died.
The thing I think that bothered me the most about the Ellie stuff at the end is this...
The disease is a fungal spore that is both airborne and blood borne. It is transferred through those fungal spores, which is why the have to wear the filtration masks. But it is also transferred in the traditional zombie gnawing on flesh method.
Why do the scientists immediately jump to "let's brain Ellie" for the solution? Since the disease is also blood born, why didn't they go the non-invasive, non-life threatening route first and take blood samples, and do safe tests and biopsies and stuff? Since it's airborne, wouldn't a lung biopsy have been a good idea too?
I mean, obviously this is where the science starts to break down and we have to take the story with a measure of suspension of belief. But it just always struck me the wrong way the the immediate first response to Ellie being immune is "let's cut out her brain and study it!" I mean, who thinks like that? The Firefly scientists have just as little (or less) regard for human life as Joel or anyone else.
The thing I think that bothered me the most about the Ellie stuff at the end is this...
The disease is a fungal spore that is both airborne and blood borne. It is transferred through those fungal spores, which is why the have to wear the filtration masks. But it is also transferred in the traditional zombie gnawing on flesh method.
Why do the scientists immediately jump to "let's brain Ellie" for the solution? Since the disease is also blood born, why didn't they go the non-invasive, non-life threatening route first and take blood samples, and do safe tests and biopsies and stuff? Since it's airborne, wouldn't a lung biopsy have been a good idea too?
I mean, obviously this is where the science starts to break down and we have to take the story with a measure of suspension of belief. But it just always struck me the wrong way the the immediate first response to Ellie being immune is "let's cut out her brain and study it!" I mean, who thinks like that? The Firefly scientists have just as little (or less) regard for human life as Joel or anyone else.
There's actually an audio log in the game where they did just that. Blood borne spores just grew normal cordyceps, so they have to get to the actual mutated fungus to figure out wtf is up.
The truth is the Fireflies are no better, if not worse, than the people they fight against. They could just do what Tommy's group did and try to create a new home. Instead they're fighting some sort of ridiculous guerrilla war against the ghost of whatever government forces are left behind. Like, we see no indications that the guys in the tanks are going out of their way to find people in the middle of nowhere and kill them. They're literally just patrolling whatever ground they control and trying to impose some sort of order with whatever limited resources they have left. If you don't like how they are doing things then just fucking leave. It's clearly not that hard.
They're also clearly a dying organization, because of their aforementioned lack of a home supply. Like, if they find a vaccine, so what? Do they have a way of mass producing it? How would they administer it to the rest of the population? Who would believe them if they could? Why should anyone trust that they can pull off something like that in light of everything you've seen in the game?
We're conditioned in video games to root for groups like the Fireflies, especially since they are supposedly the idealist rebels, but the reality is that they are clearly just grasping at straws, trying to find a way to justify everything they have done and will do. Keep in mind that they were formed before they even knew Ellie existed, so using her to find a cure for humanity is not some sort of enlightened goal so much as a desperate last gasp.
If anything, the smart thing to do is go back to Tommy's group and keep Ellie alive in pursuit of some kind of long-term cure. There is absolutely no reason to cut into her head RIGHT NOW. Why wouldn't you do more testing, rebuild a better infrastructure, and hope that a better answer comes along? Especially since there is absolutely no guarantee that killing her will magically produce a cure?
I think a more logical course of action would be to
see if Ellie's immunity is genetic. Can she pass it on to offspring? That could ultimately be the salvation of the human race. Not a manufactured cure, but a natural evolution. It would make more sense to protect the immune above all else that they may pass their gift on to future generations. Makes more sense to me to see if she can pass on her immunity to her children before anyone goes removing her brain with no guarantee that anything would come of it. Now, how Ellie would feel about being asked to get busy makin' babies is a whole 'nother can of worms.
Can't the disease be spread through saliva and blood? Which is why when someone has been bitten by an infected they always turn? Wouldn't getting intimate with Ellie cause the same thing?
What, all of the turkey basters were destroyed in the apocalypse? :P
I just finished this game on the PS4 last night. I originally bought a PS3 off craigslist just for this game and got it the day it came out.
It's still just about my favorite game of all time. So fun and so engaging.
It's also helped me realize that open world games aren't really my jam. Before going back to TLoU, I was playing The Witcher 3, and honestly I was finding it a boring slog. I don't care about the characters or the world, and the ridiculous amount of side quests is just overwhelming and immersion-breaking. Yes, Geralt is racing to find his sorta-adopted daughter who is also being pursued by a group of Saurons, but let's do a few card tournaments, boxing matches, fetch quests, kill every bandit in the country, take contracts to kill monsters...
The narrative urgency and momentum that TLoU creates just completely goes away when you can delay a main questline by literally dozens of hours of side quests that in no way advance the plot. It makes it feel like the main quest doesn't actually matter.
I've noticed the same thing in GTA V (although most of the time messing around & avoiding the main story quests works better in this game) and Dragon Age: Inquisition.
There's also a voice acting thing that drives me bonkers in these games that I never noticed in TLoU, and I don't know if it's bad writing, bad acting, or a limitation on how dialogue scenes in games work. Any time one character interrupts another, the interrupted speakers stops talking mid-sentence, there's a second or two pause, and then the interruptor starts talking. It's so freaking clunky and doesn't play out like an interruption whatsoever, even though it's obviously what they were going for.
Is this just a limitation of game engines that they can't play discreet audio clips close enough together so that an interruption actually plays out like an interruption? Are the game designers so lazy that they can't bother to make the cutscenes flow properly? Am I the only one who gets bothered by this?
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Open-world games in general struggle with the issue of having a compelling, driving narrative while giving players the "freedom" to explore at their leisure. If they are connected to the main narrative, then players feel compelled to do "everything" as soon as possible so they aren't missing content or game play options. However, if they are disconnected then the player won't feel any impetus to do them beyond the typical completionist tendencies.
Witcher 3's side quests and contracts were actually really well done, in that many of them had interesting characters and meaningful conflict, as opposed to, "Hasten thee to yonder hill and gather me 17 tufts of heather, traveler." Also, I'd say that a good portion of the side content actually does impact the main plot, you just don't see the effects until much later or if you make a different decision (or choose to do it entirely) in another play through. There is definitely filler stuff though - particularly the things that you see on the map that aren't quest-related.
I like semi-open world models. Put a game on a starship or space station and let the player roam over the thing, with Metroidvania elements to make sure the player doesn't see some things too early, cool. But full GTA/Skyrim style open worlds don't so much work for me.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I tend to skip nearly all side quests in open world games and agree they're not the best focused when it comes to plot. Generally I get bored and don't finish them.
The only open world game I can recall recently where I was hooked on the story and played it through to completion was Sleeping Dogs, even then I skipped most of the side quests.
I'm much more a fan of linear experiences like TLoU and Uncharted. Something I've actually got a chance of finishing. I REALLY like the latest trend of cinematic games; Telltale games, David Cage stuff, Life is Strange and I'm really really looking forward to Until Dawn.
I can understand why Joel did what he did, but his actions felt so "I'm the man, and I know better than you, tiny female" that I can't help but feel disgust for him. After all they'd been through, I feel him lying to her (with no intention to ever tell the truth) destroys all the trust that had been built up through the game.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
Agreed. On one hand, I applaud Naughty Dog for letting Joel get away with the shit he pulled on a creative level. On the other hand, I played Bioshock Infinite the same year, and liked the fact that Booker was punished for his crime, where as Joel was not. Which irked me. I get the "If you're a father, this the ending may hit you harder" logic, but that's also sort of lazy considering not all of us are.
I'm fairly certain Ellie knew Joel was lying. Otherwise their convo at the end kinda comes out of nowhere.
Oh, definitely. The trust in the relationship is Ellie saying "OK, I'll let you make this decision for me rather than press you on your obvious lie". She's willing to depend on Joel doing what he honestly believes is best for her. As much as Joel has gained a daughter, Ellie now also has a parental figure for the first time since her mother died.
I would very much say that the game leaves that last conversation ambiguous on purpose. I'd agree that
Ellie most likely knows that Joel is lying, but what that means to Ellie? What it means to their relationship? That's a different story. Did Joel save Ellie's life but destroy their relationship? Will she be able to live with what she believes has happened? Will it slowly corrode the trust between the two of them? For me, the ending feels tragic rather than anything else - in the short run Joel has rewritten his own history, he's saved his (surrogate) daughter rather than failing her (though it's not as if he could've done anything to save Sarah), but in the long run he may have destroyed what made his relationship with Ellie what it had become.
While I do see the ending as ambiguous, I do think that the game does not condone Joel's actions. It wants us to feel conflicted, torn between two options, both of which are horrific. It wants us to understand why Joel did what he did, but it also wants us to see that there may be a cost.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Old thread I know but I just played through this game again and want to talk about it.
That ending still packs as much of a punch as when it was first released. I love how they end with two characters talking to each other in a peaceful scene. This game has cinametic ambitions that are largely unrivaled in the game industry since its release.
Glad to see this thread resurrected a bit. Such a good game and anyone who missed it (on PS3 or on PS4) should seriously consider picking up Remastered, especially now that it's getting an HDR patch to support the PS4's new HDR capability. It'll look even better, and it's probably my favorite game from last-gen (even though I didn't play it until it was on PS4). So many moments in this game have stayed with me and are prompted to resurface every once in a while.
I was marthoning through the game during an extremely hot summer and I think the combination of the outside heat and how hard this game pushed the PS3 just killed it. So my options were to not finish the game or go out and buy a new PS3.
So I bought a new PS3.
And the DLC.
And then I bought it all again on the PS4.
Sony got a lot of money from me for this wonderful game.
Glad to see this thread resurrected a bit. Such a good game and anyone who missed it (on PS3 or on PS4) should seriously consider picking up Remastered, especially now that it's getting an HDR patch to support the PS4's new HDR capability. It'll look even better, and it's probably my favorite game from last-gen (even though I didn't play it until it was on PS4). So many moments in this game have stayed with me and are prompted to resurface every once in a while.
I played it on ps3, and then on PS4 when the remastered version came out.
I never actually played it, though - I think perhaps because they weren't that far apart.
I think I'll reinstall it soon, and do another playthrough. On Easy, just for the story, and Trophies.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I never did bother playing through Left Behind. Mostly because the main game is so stressful, I'm still recovering.
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Left Behind is great, but I do prefer that it's left separate and non integrated. It'd be a good option for the Director's Cut or whatever the PS4 version is called, but I like thinking of Left Behind as the 'epilogue' to the game.
For one, the transition from Fall to Winter is fan-fucking-tastic, and putting Left Behind in the middle would take the wind out of it a little. Plus the flashbacks to the Riley story would feel a little out of place.
And the ending of the Last of Us is Ellie telling Joel about Riley. If you put Left Behind before that, it'd feel, I dunno... kinda reductive? Hearing about it after seeing it wouldn't hit as hard as seeing it after hearing about it, y'know?
Glad to see this thread resurrected a bit. Such a good game and anyone who missed it (on PS3 or on PS4) should seriously consider picking up Remastered, especially now that it's getting an HDR patch to support the PS4's new HDR capability. It'll look even better, and it's probably my favorite game from last-gen (even though I didn't play it until it was on PS4). So many moments in this game have stayed with me and are prompted to resurface every once in a while.
I played it on ps3, and then on PS4 when the remastered version came out.
I never actually played it, though - I think perhaps because they weren't that far apart.
I think I'll reinstall it soon, and do another playthrough. On Easy, just for the story, and Trophies.
Yeah, I haven't played Remastered yet either, mainly because I played the original release so much and wanted to space it out a bit. With the Pro patch coming, it seems like that was good idea in hindsight.
As for Left Behind, it absolutely works best as its own thing. Integrating it right into the middle of the game would just kill the pacing, like when Deus Ex: HR Director's Cut integrated its DLC right into the back half of its campaign (though it's not a great comparison because HR's DLC is pretty weak).
I managed to stay unspoiled on this game and finally beat it last night. Holy shit that ending.
I have never shot a doctor so fast in my life.
Also, I can't stop thinking about how awful the rest of Joel's life will be. In the end, when you're going back towards Tommy's place - you can HEAR him doing that overcompensation thing most liars do. When he's just like, way too happy with life. And yeah, he SHOULD be excited - he's going to live with his brother, no one will be looking for them (probably), he's got Ellie...but in that moment when he has to lie again -- damn.
On it's surface I was like, just kind of stunned. I had heard how the ending was just super emotional, and my stupid, cliche brain just assumed someone dies. So I was waiting for that. I was waiting as that conversation unfolded for one to kill the other, somehow. I was waiting when Ellie said "Okay" for her to shoot him, and leave him there for lying to her. I was just ready for it. And it ended.
And this morning I realized what I feel is what Joel feels. I played as Joel, so I should know. From that moment on - when her "Okay" is said with such a little bit of positivity, he will wonder. He KNOWS what she's capable of. How many she's killed. And he will wonder what she could do to him if she finds out the truth. And then he will think that OF COURSE she knows the truth, and he's just being fucked with, right?
And it will gnaw away at him until he tells his brother the truth someday. And the second he tells one person it's only a matter of time before others know.
The rest of Joel's life will be bouts of peaceful farm life, combined with never ending raids on the property, zombie attacks, and a creeping combination of guilt and paranoia.
It is heartbreaking.
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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RandomHajileNot actually a SnatcherThe New KremlinRegistered Userregular
I managed to stay unspoiled on this game and finally beat it last night. Holy shit that ending.
I have never shot a doctor so fast in my life.
Also, I can't stop thinking about how awful the rest of Joel's life will be. In the end, when you're going back towards Tommy's place - you can HEAR him doing that overcompensation thing most liars do. When he's just like, way too happy with life. And yeah, he SHOULD be excited - he's going to live with his brother, no one will be looking for them (probably), he's got Ellie...but in that moment when he has to lie again -- damn.
On it's surface I was like, just kind of stunned. I had heard how the ending was just super emotional, and my stupid, cliche brain just assumed someone dies. So I was waiting for that. I was waiting as that conversation unfolded for one to kill the other, somehow. I was waiting when Ellie said "Okay" for her to shoot him, and leave him there for lying to her. I was just ready for it. And it ended.
And this morning I realized what I feel is what Joel feels. I played as Joel, so I should know. From that moment on - when her "Okay" is said with such a little bit of positivity, he will wonder. He KNOWS what she's capable of. How many she's killed. And he will wonder what she could do to him if she finds out the truth. And then he will think that OF COURSE she knows the truth, and he's just being fucked with, right?
And it will gnaw away at him until he tells his brother the truth someday. And the second he tells one person it's only a matter of time before others know.
The rest of Joel's life will be bouts of peaceful farm life, combined with never ending raids on the property, zombie attacks, and a creeping combination of guilt and paranoia.
It is heartbreaking.
My feeling on the "Okay" is that she flat out knows he's lying, and is just has to have him say it so that they can move on. I don't think he needs to be worried about the repercussions of her knowing. He'll still feel guilty as all hell, for sure, though.
I got that impression as well. She needed to see if he would go all the way through with the lie. Maybe seeing if he feels any regret. But he seems content with his choice and honestly who can blame him? As a father I literally cannot imagine the pain of losing my son, and to have to allow that same thing to happen twice would probably be too much for me as well. Plus by that point I think it is pretty obvious Joel is not a moral or ethical hero. He is out for himself at first, and then the both of them eventually. So making the selfish choice does not really play against his character up to that point.
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edited November 2016
Also considering the suspicious nature when they were taken - if they told Elle she would die during the surgery there's no way she wouldn't ask to see Joel one last time, even if she didn't tell him in that visit that she was going to die (knowing what he'd do, probably). She was just as loyal to him as he was to her at that point. They had both saved one another's lives over and over by that point, they were family. Its unlikely the Fireflies even told her about it or did anything but sedate her.
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I don't have a child yet, and my reaction was basically like the brunette girl. I was sitting on the couch bawling. I can only imagine what it would have been like for a dad to play that.
I think I wouldn't feel as grossed out if Joel was lying to "Elliot" instead, since male-to-male gaslighting is far less overused in media.
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Jesus, that's a way more terrifying idea to me.
I can speak to this actually. I waited to play the PS4 version and had somehow stayed pretty unaware of the game. At the time I started playing my daughter was 4. I had already decided it was one of those games I would only play while she was either asleep or not home. My wife happened to be in the room when I first started playing the game. We both kind of lost it at "the moment". It hit hard. It also hardened the notion of "I will do anything to protect my child" a little bit. Weird to say it, but a game helped me to remember never take a single moment for granted.
By the time the title screen hit we went upstairs and gave our daughter a hug. It was past her bedtime, but like many kids she wasn't asleep yet. We said our "I love you"s and she went to sleep and we went back downstairs. I kept playing the game. I think because of the whole thing there were other moments throughout my playtime over the next week or so where I would pause the game and go upstairs and give her a seemingly random hug. Now she just gets them all the time.
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Did you watch this, now that you've finished the game?
I do agree without the uncle Tommy stuff the game would be almost oppressively bleak. I would have been fine with that, but it was a very nice breather sequence.
Booker is a helluva lot worse then Joel, though. Seriously, Booker is a total fuck.
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One little detail I liked was that when she drowns towards the end, Joel does not give her rescue breaths with the CPR. The guy is a capable survivor, he knows what to do. So the only reason not to start with the breaths is... he thinks her saliva could infect him.
Why do the scientists immediately jump to "let's brain Ellie" for the solution? Since the disease is also blood born, why didn't they go the non-invasive, non-life threatening route first and take blood samples, and do safe tests and biopsies and stuff? Since it's airborne, wouldn't a lung biopsy have been a good idea too?
I mean, obviously this is where the science starts to break down and we have to take the story with a measure of suspension of belief. But it just always struck me the wrong way the the immediate first response to Ellie being immune is "let's cut out her brain and study it!" I mean, who thinks like that? The Firefly scientists have just as little (or less) regard for human life as Joel or anyone else.
It's still just about my favorite game of all time. So fun and so engaging.
It's also helped me realize that open world games aren't really my jam. Before going back to TLoU, I was playing The Witcher 3, and honestly I was finding it a boring slog. I don't care about the characters or the world, and the ridiculous amount of side quests is just overwhelming and immersion-breaking. Yes, Geralt is racing to find his sorta-adopted daughter who is also being pursued by a group of Saurons, but let's do a few card tournaments, boxing matches, fetch quests, kill every bandit in the country, take contracts to kill monsters...
The narrative urgency and momentum that TLoU creates just completely goes away when you can delay a main questline by literally dozens of hours of side quests that in no way advance the plot. It makes it feel like the main quest doesn't actually matter.
I've noticed the same thing in GTA V (although most of the time messing around & avoiding the main story quests works better in this game) and Dragon Age: Inquisition.
There's also a voice acting thing that drives me bonkers in these games that I never noticed in TLoU, and I don't know if it's bad writing, bad acting, or a limitation on how dialogue scenes in games work. Any time one character interrupts another, the interrupted speakers stops talking mid-sentence, there's a second or two pause, and then the interruptor starts talking. It's so freaking clunky and doesn't play out like an interruption whatsoever, even though it's obviously what they were going for.
Is this just a limitation of game engines that they can't play discreet audio clips close enough together so that an interruption actually plays out like an interruption? Are the game designers so lazy that they can't bother to make the cutscenes flow properly? Am I the only one who gets bothered by this?
Witcher 3's side quests and contracts were actually really well done, in that many of them had interesting characters and meaningful conflict, as opposed to, "Hasten thee to yonder hill and gather me 17 tufts of heather, traveler." Also, I'd say that a good portion of the side content actually does impact the main plot, you just don't see the effects until much later or if you make a different decision (or choose to do it entirely) in another play through. There is definitely filler stuff though - particularly the things that you see on the map that aren't quest-related.
I like semi-open world models. Put a game on a starship or space station and let the player roam over the thing, with Metroidvania elements to make sure the player doesn't see some things too early, cool. But full GTA/Skyrim style open worlds don't so much work for me.
The only open world game I can recall recently where I was hooked on the story and played it through to completion was Sleeping Dogs, even then I skipped most of the side quests.
I'm much more a fan of linear experiences like TLoU and Uncharted. Something I've actually got a chance of finishing. I REALLY like the latest trend of cinematic games; Telltale games, David Cage stuff, Life is Strange and I'm really really looking forward to Until Dawn.
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
That ending still packs as much of a punch as when it was first released. I love how they end with two characters talking to each other in a peaceful scene. This game has cinametic ambitions that are largely unrivaled in the game industry since its release.
I was marthoning through the game during an extremely hot summer and I think the combination of the outside heat and how hard this game pushed the PS3 just killed it. So my options were to not finish the game or go out and buy a new PS3.
So I bought a new PS3.
And the DLC.
And then I bought it all again on the PS4.
Sony got a lot of money from me for this wonderful game.
I played it on ps3, and then on PS4 when the remastered version came out.
I never actually played it, though - I think perhaps because they weren't that far apart.
I think I'll reinstall it soon, and do another playthrough. On Easy, just for the story, and Trophies.
It's a really solid piece of content. I think if It was in the game proper it would be one of the better sections.
And the ending of the Last of Us is Ellie telling Joel about Riley. If you put Left Behind before that, it'd feel, I dunno... kinda reductive? Hearing about it after seeing it wouldn't hit as hard as seeing it after hearing about it, y'know?
Yeah, I haven't played Remastered yet either, mainly because I played the original release so much and wanted to space it out a bit. With the Pro patch coming, it seems like that was good idea in hindsight.
As for Left Behind, it absolutely works best as its own thing. Integrating it right into the middle of the game would just kill the pacing, like when Deus Ex: HR Director's Cut integrated its DLC right into the back half of its campaign (though it's not a great comparison because HR's DLC is pretty weak).
Also, I can't stop thinking about how awful the rest of Joel's life will be. In the end, when you're going back towards Tommy's place - you can HEAR him doing that overcompensation thing most liars do. When he's just like, way too happy with life. And yeah, he SHOULD be excited - he's going to live with his brother, no one will be looking for them (probably), he's got Ellie...but in that moment when he has to lie again -- damn.
On it's surface I was like, just kind of stunned. I had heard how the ending was just super emotional, and my stupid, cliche brain just assumed someone dies. So I was waiting for that. I was waiting as that conversation unfolded for one to kill the other, somehow. I was waiting when Ellie said "Okay" for her to shoot him, and leave him there for lying to her. I was just ready for it. And it ended.
And this morning I realized what I feel is what Joel feels. I played as Joel, so I should know. From that moment on - when her "Okay" is said with such a little bit of positivity, he will wonder. He KNOWS what she's capable of. How many she's killed. And he will wonder what she could do to him if she finds out the truth. And then he will think that OF COURSE she knows the truth, and he's just being fucked with, right?
And it will gnaw away at him until he tells his brother the truth someday. And the second he tells one person it's only a matter of time before others know.
The rest of Joel's life will be bouts of peaceful farm life, combined with never ending raids on the property, zombie attacks, and a creeping combination of guilt and paranoia.
It is heartbreaking.
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PSN:Furlion