I just didn't get that feeling that it was on his terms.
His terms would've been provoking Jack with his talk of Bella, get him into an 'honorable fight' or whatever where he would surely win. Jack doesn't take the bait, and it rapidly spins out of his control.
That's what it looks like when it doesn't go according to his plan.
I think that requires an interpretation of Hannibal that hasn't been presented in the show. He's very much aware of what these people are capable of psychologically. And we've seen his ninja combat skills against Verger's minions.
AlphaRomero on
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
That's actually the example I was thinking of; he took control by provoking that guy, asking if his friend fouled himself when he died, etc. That's what he was trying to do this time, and it didn't work. ;P
Oh brilliant
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
I think that requires an interpretation of Hannibal that hasn't been presented in the show. He's very much aware of what these people are capable of psychologically. And we've seen his ninja combat skills against Verger's minions.
This time, it's with an opponent he left alive. His ninja tricks and mind games won't work a second time.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I think that requires an interpretation of Hannibal that hasn't been presented in the show. He's very much aware of what these people are capable of psychologically. And we've seen his ninja combat skills against Verger's minions.
This time, it's with an opponent he left alive. His ninja tricks and mind games won't work a second time.
They have during the season. He's been a step ahead of everyone and they know it.
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
I think that requires an interpretation of Hannibal that hasn't been presented in the show. He's very much aware of what these people are capable of psychologically. And we've seen his ninja combat skills against Verger's minions.
This time, it's with an opponent he left alive. His ninja tricks and mind games won't work a second time.
They have during the season. He's been a step ahead of everyone and they know it.
I meant fighting-wise. Everyone he killed he's blindsided.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I think that requires an interpretation of Hannibal that hasn't been presented in the show. He's very much aware of what these people are capable of psychologically. And we've seen his ninja combat skills against Verger's minions.
This time, it's with an opponent he left alive. His ninja tricks and mind games won't work a second time.
They have during the season. He's been a step ahead of everyone and they know it.
I meant fighting-wise. Everyone he killed he's blindsided.
They didn't all go down easily. He struggled with Tobias, who was his equal with fighting. The ambush started the fight.
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
I think that requires an interpretation of Hannibal that hasn't been presented in the show. He's very much aware of what these people are capable of psychologically. And we've seen his ninja combat skills against Verger's minions.
This time, it's with an opponent he left alive. His ninja tricks and mind games won't work a second time.
They have during the season. He's been a step ahead of everyone and they know it.
I meant fighting-wise. Everyone he killed he's blindsided.
They didn't all go down easily. He struggled with Tobias, who was his equal with fighting. The ambush started the fight.
In that fight, he took calculated hits to maneuver Tobias into position. There are a few points where he's subtly moving objects (including the ladder) into place so he can use it to finish the fight and have it look natural enough to the police to avoid having to stage a crime-scene in his own office.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Yeah, that was not "Hannibal toying with Jack." Jack was in control of that entire fight, and imo it was to display what happens when Hannibal isn't in control. Like everybody else said, Hannibal would only be in control if he could get Jack off guard with his talk about Bella.
I mean, Jack pushed him out the window to splatter on the pavement, and Hannibal surely didn't know he'd get pushed out the window in just the position to allow him to latch onto the hanging body. I think the fact that the show has portrayed Hannibal in a pseudo-supernatural light in the past has some people conditioned to think he's infallible, and nothing will ever not go according to his evil plans.
Showrunner tweets update after NBC canceled Hugh Dancy-Mads Mikkelsen drama after three seasons
“Hannibal” won’t go on at Netflix or Amazon, who have both passed on picking up new episodes of the canceled NBC drama, according to showrunner Bryan Funner.
“I’M SORRY TO REPORT @amazon AND @netflix HAVE PASSED ON #HANNIBAL S4,” he answered a fan on Twitter. “BUT WE’RE STILL INVESTIGATING POSSIBILITIES.”
The series, which stars Mads Mikkelsen as iconic cannibal Hannibal Lecter, has been a critical darling, though never a ratings hit. Hugh Dancy stars as FBI serial killer profiler Will Graham, and Laurence Fishburne appears as Jack Crawford, the agent-in-charge of the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit in Quantico, Virginia.
In announcing the cancellation, NBC praised the series.
“We have been tremendously proud of ‘Hannibal’ over its three seasons. Bryan and his team of writers and producers, as well as our incredible actors, have brought a visual palette of storytelling that has been second to none in all of television — broadcast or cable,” the network said in a statement. “We thank Gaumont [International Television] and everyone involved in the show for their tireless efforts that have made ‘Hannibal’ an incredible experience for audiences around the world.”
For a recent airing during its third season, “Hannibal” drew an anemic 0.5 rating/2 share in the 18-49 demographic most important to advertisers, tying the previous week’s series low.
Executive producers on the series include Fuller, Martha De Laurentiis, Steve Lightfoot, Katie O’Connell Marsh, Elisa Todd Ellis, Christophe Riandee and Sidonie Dumas.
For his part, Fuller is emotionally prepared for the end of the show, as he goes into each season as if it’s the last.
Also Read: 'Hannibal' EP on Heartbreaking Twist, Will's Forgiveness: 'You Can't Be Mad at a Shark for Eating Somebody'
“The first season, if we had ended with Will Graham taking the fall for Hannibal’s crime, that would have been a really bold finale for the series,” he told TheWrap. “Same with the second season, if we had left with Hannibal Lecter walking out the door after leaving everyone for dead, that would have been a bold ending to the series. The Season 3 finale is no different.”
“Hannibal” airs Thursdays at 10 p.m. ET on NBC.
Netflix and Amazon must think the ratings are so bad on TV that their subscribers wouldn't even bother watching, or that the cost to keep it going wouldn't be worth it.
I imagine Amazon wasn't interested in producing (especially with the negotiating new contracts part) but wanted to keep streaming rights, so of course Netflix wasn't going to produce a show that would exclusively air on a competitors service. Neither side budged so we get no Hannibal for anyone. C'est la vie.
Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
If Season 3 ends the Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter arc satisfactorily and definitively, I can be okay with 3 seasons. 3 seasons of Hannibal is more than humanity deserved, if those ratings numbers are any indication.
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
It's definitely not gonna be a neat exit wound if Fuller is saying it's ending on the same kinda note as Seasons 1 and 2. Yeah they work as endings. Technically. I guess. :P
But I'm optimistic, if the season is going the route a lot of us are assuming, it'll have more closure than earlier seasons by it's very nature...
Red Dragon miniseries means Hannibal is captured in short order, to fill his consultant role. There's a lot that could happen between now and the end, but assuming he stays in prison? That's a lot more 'final' than the previous endings.
They already did Hannibal escapes to Europe, which in the original timeline happens after Silence of the Lambs. It makes sense to just do Red Dragon with him in captivity still playing antagonist to Will Graham around Dolarhyde stuff. It's a bummer thinking of the potential cool stuff they could've done with a Clarice Starling Silence of the Lambs story, but eh, it is what it is.
Why didn't The Wire or Arrested Development have better viewership numbers? Or any other number of critically acclaimed shows that just didn't grab the average viewer. The easy answer is the average person just doesn't necessarily like things that you or I perceive as the best. To the average person, Two and a Half Men was a funnier show than Arrested Development.
I definitely understand why this particular season of Hannibal has had such bad ratings though, because while I can appreciate that other people liked the weekly pretentious art film circlejerk the show turned into for the first 4 episodes of this season, it wasn't at all interesting to me on any level other than visually, and Hannibal's always been visually interesting, while also having a plot that I cared about. The latest episode was a step in the right direction for me, but I'm sure plenty of people just jumped off the ship already.
Why didn't The Wire or Arrested Development have better viewership numbers? Or any other number of critically acclaimed shows that just didn't grab the average viewer. The easy answer is the average person just doesn't necessarily like things that you or I perceive as the best. To the average person, Two and a Half Men was a funnier show than Arrested Development.
I definitely understand why this particular season of Hannibal has had such bad ratings though, because while I can appreciate that other people liked the weekly pretentious art film circlejerk the show turned into for the first 4 episodes of this season, it wasn't at all interesting to me on any level other than visually, and Hannibal's always been visually interesting, while also having a plot that I cared about. The latest episode was a step in the right direction for me, but I'm sure plenty of people just jumped off the ship already.
But The Wire became a cult classic on DVD. The scale of its storytelling was fairly epic and I feel like the producers had at least some idea it would grow like that. Hannibal is tighter, less expansive... I'm not sure it's comparable. I'm sad either way. It deserves more time.
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
It's definitely not gonna be a neat exit wound if Fuller is saying it's ending on the same kinda note as Seasons 1 and 2. Yeah they work as endings. Technically. I guess. :P
But I'm optimistic, if the season is going the route a lot of us are assuming, it'll have more closure than earlier seasons by it's very nature...
Red Dragon miniseries means Hannibal is captured in short order, to fill his consultant role. There's a lot that could happen between now and the end, but assuming he stays in prison? That's a lot more 'final' than the previous endings.
Red Dragon spoilers.
Dolarhyde almost kills Will. I think he either shoots him or re-guts him in front of his wife and son, so... It's not like, a happy-happy ending. Will ends up becoming an alcoholic living in the Florida keys post RD.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
It's definitely not gonna be a neat exit wound if Fuller is saying it's ending on the same kinda note as Seasons 1 and 2. Yeah they work as endings. Technically. I guess. :P
But I'm optimistic, if the season is going the route a lot of us are assuming, it'll have more closure than earlier seasons by it's very nature...
Red Dragon miniseries means Hannibal is captured in short order, to fill his consultant role. There's a lot that could happen between now and the end, but assuming he stays in prison? That's a lot more 'final' than the previous endings.
Red Dragon spoilers.
Dolarhyde almost kills Will. I think he either shoots him or re-guts him in front of his wife and son, so... It's not like, a happy-happy ending. Will ends up becoming an alcoholic living in the Florida keys post RD.
Oh man.
Poor Will.
Given that this iteration starts off with Will being much more miserable as a baseline, I can only imagine the TV show's horrible ending for him post RD.
RhalloTonny on
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
It seems like there was some weirdness in terms of contract timing--not only were the actors released from their contracts, but Fuller too, which means he has to go work more directly on American Gods. Some reports suggest that that was a major sticking point for Amazon, that they'd have to wait a year for Fuller to be free to make more Hannibal. At any rate it's a significant blow to the show's chances.
I haven't yet seen the latest episode, but especially since Silence of the Lambs was always unlikely for this series I think they might bring it to an end that makes sense for the story we've got. The relationship between Hannibal and Will can conclude with Hannibal behind bars and Will finding some ambivalent sort of redemption. If they bring S3 to an end that can serve as a conclusion to the series, the story can feel complete, judging from the character arcs we've got.
It's unlikely this would ever happen, but it might even work to have a later, one-season-only Silence with the same cast but with Will in a mentor role and Clarice (or Miriam Lass? In the TV Hannibal universe, she might even get back onto the FBI, since realism was never the series' aim) torn between Will and Hannibal.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
Hey, how badly injured is Mason?
This episode he used his right arm to turn the TV on. Other times he has people feed him - I thought he was quadriplegic, but I guess not?
It'd be a pretty neat twist if his spinal injury is one that he can recover from, but his vendetta gets him killed before then. :P
Loved his dinner scene.
Oh my gooood Mason
"In my defence you weaponized your uterus, you shouldn't have been waving it around like a loaded pistol!"
This is why I didn't get any catharsis out of last week's episode. I knew they were just going to negate it all in the next one, because Hannibal can never lose.
I'm glad this show was cancelled. Season 2 should have been the end of it anyway, that ending was perfect.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
It wasn't negated
It landed Hannibal in Mason's clutches... somehow.
I don't think he's getting away - I bet next ep is gonna end with Hannibal getting loose, killing Mason, and then right when it looks like he's won Alana shows up with like 20 SWAT teams and he gets locked the fuck up.
I'm choosing to ignore the last scene entirely because it makes zero sense given the information the episode provided us, and could be a dream sequence for all I know.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
It was a baffling transition. I guess that was the point, that we were watching from Will's point of view and he has no fucking clue how he got there. But dang if it wasn't super sudden and confusing. I guess...
Bedelia led a corrupt cop there, who informed the Vergers.
But not showing what happened to Jack or Chiyo is... strange.
Oh brilliant
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
I'll have details from the Comic-Con panel for y'all tomorrow evening.
I'm surprised they've skipped so far so fast, doesn't Verger do all this after Silence and Red Dragon? But I guess they have to make way for Red Dragon.
They've been remixing the material from the first; there's bits of the books throughout S1 and S2. Hannibal in Europe pretty much comes from Hannibal (the novel and film), even though in terms of the TV series it's all happening before Red Dragon.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
The first season is Red Dragonish (Hannibal and Will work together to catch a killer), the second season is Silence-ish (with Will influencing things from prison instead of Hannibal), the third season is Hannibal-ish (with Will tracking him down instead of Clarice). In theory season 4 would have been the actual Red Dragon, season 5 the actual Silence, season 6 the actual Hannibal, and season 7 an original story to wrap it all up. That was the plan at one point.
Now, though
What would have been 4 is the back half of 3, and if Hannibal continues production the real season 4 will an original, I think? Fuller is hinting that there's some additional part of the canon he has yet to adapt but who knows what that is.
On a completely different note I'm in the Hannibal room at SDCC. Panel starts in an hour and I'll do some live blogging here during or just after the panel.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
"Fannibals, welcome to the Pannibal!"
First up a preview reel of the second half of this season:
Lots of Red Dragon stuff, looks very faithful to the book, very cool. Lector behind bars and bitter as fuck.
Panel comes out--Fuller, De Laurentiis, Hugh Dancy, and
Richard Armitage, the new Francis Dollarhyde
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Fuller still looking for a new home for Hannibal, considering a movie.
Hugh and Mads are very committed to the show and Fuller says the way the season ends, there might be a break and then more show or a movie.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Netflix and Amazon have passed. Amazon wanted to do it so quickly that Fuller couldn't have had all the scripts ready before shooting, so that didn't work.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Hugh: "there must be no more flower crowns left in the world"
Now the whole panel is wearing them.
Fuller on the structure of the season: After mining Red Dragon already, Fuller is excited to do the real story given the build up of Hannibal and Will's character--Will sees Francis as a version of Hannibal he can save, while Hannibal views him as a Will he can corrupt.
Martha is excited to see this new Red Dragon.
Fuller: "And we won't blur his butt cheeks on the DVD."
Armitage's interpretation of the character as a man trying to put on a new skin, or get out of the old one. Armitage didn't look at older performances of the character, but he did read the book and knows there are iconic moments they'd have to approach.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
The crowd annoyed at the moderator spoiling last night's episode.
After next episode,
We have a three year time jump and Will has found a wife and domestic life in the interim... Which "doesn't last long."
Fuller says no NBC pushback on "spitters are quitters"...
Moderator: "Does NBC push back on anything? Other than more of the show."
Fuller: there was a lesbian sex euphemism in season 2 that NBC wouldn't let us use, so I googled more euphemisms and found something they didn't know.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Audience Q&A--
Q) How do you balance pretentiousness with plot?
A) The show should be one third Thomas Harris, one third real psychology, one third special sauce of what's happening with characters. Fuller loves emotional plotting... watches his own show with Hugh and they're like, "What did we mean? Wow, that's pretentious."
Q) Are we getting the short shorts from Manhunter?
A) Yes, but Will gave them to Francis.
Q) Does your character have the sexual aspects of the character, Armitage?
A) Francis has a kind of innocence to him, even given how dark and complicated his world is. I spent half my episodes naked--
Posts
Hmmm. Hadn't thought of that angle.
This time, it's with an opponent he left alive. His ninja tricks and mind games won't work a second time.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
They have during the season. He's been a step ahead of everyone and they know it.
I meant fighting-wise. Everyone he killed he's blindsided.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
They didn't all go down easily. He struggled with Tobias, who was his equal with fighting. The ambush started the fight.
In that fight, he took calculated hits to maneuver Tobias into position. There are a few points where he's subtly moving objects (including the ladder) into place so he can use it to finish the fight and have it look natural enough to the police to avoid having to stage a crime-scene in his own office.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I mean, Jack pushed him out the window to splatter on the pavement, and Hannibal surely didn't know he'd get pushed out the window in just the position to allow him to latch onto the hanging body. I think the fact that the show has portrayed Hannibal in a pseudo-supernatural light in the past has some people conditioned to think he's infallible, and nothing will ever not go according to his evil plans.
http://www.thewrap.com/netflix-amazon-reject-hannibal-bryan-fuller-still-investigating-possibilities-for-season-4/
http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
But I'm optimistic, if the season is going the route a lot of us are assuming, it'll have more closure than earlier seasons by it's very nature...
Steam: adamjnet
I definitely understand why this particular season of Hannibal has had such bad ratings though, because while I can appreciate that other people liked the weekly pretentious art film circlejerk the show turned into for the first 4 episodes of this season, it wasn't at all interesting to me on any level other than visually, and Hannibal's always been visually interesting, while also having a plot that I cared about. The latest episode was a step in the right direction for me, but I'm sure plenty of people just jumped off the ship already.
But The Wire became a cult classic on DVD. The scale of its storytelling was fairly epic and I feel like the producers had at least some idea it would grow like that. Hannibal is tighter, less expansive... I'm not sure it's comparable. I'm sad either way. It deserves more time.
Steam: adamjnet
Red Dragon spoilers.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Oh man.
Given that this iteration starts off with Will being much more miserable as a baseline, I can only imagine the TV show's horrible ending for him post RD.
It's unlikely this would ever happen, but it might even work to have a later, one-season-only Silence with the same cast but with Will in a mentor role and Clarice (or Miriam Lass? In the TV Hannibal universe, she might even get back onto the FBI, since realism was never the series' aim) torn between Will and Hannibal.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
It'd be a pretty neat twist if his spinal injury is one that he can recover from, but his vendetta gets him killed before then. :P
Loved his dinner scene.
Oh my gooood Mason
Yuusssss
Fuck yooooooou.
I'm glad this show was cancelled. Season 2 should have been the end of it anyway, that ending was perfect.
I don't think he's getting away - I bet next ep is gonna end with Hannibal getting loose, killing Mason, and then right when it looks like he's won Alana shows up with like 20 SWAT teams and he gets locked the fuck up.
But not showing what happened to Jack or Chiyo is... strange.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Now, though
On a completely different note I'm in the Hannibal room at SDCC. Panel starts in an hour and I'll do some live blogging here during or just after the panel.
First up a preview reel of the second half of this season:
Panel comes out--Fuller, De Laurentiis, Hugh Dancy, and
Hugh and Mads are very committed to the show and Fuller says the way the season ends, there might be a break and then more show or a movie.
Now the whole panel is wearing them.
Martha is excited to see this new Red Dragon.
Fuller: "And we won't blur his butt cheeks on the DVD."
Armitage's interpretation of the character as a man trying to put on a new skin, or get out of the old one. Armitage didn't look at older performances of the character, but he did read the book and knows there are iconic moments they'd have to approach.
After next episode,
Fuller says no NBC pushback on "spitters are quitters"...
Moderator: "Does NBC push back on anything? Other than more of the show."
Fuller: there was a lesbian sex euphemism in season 2 that NBC wouldn't let us use, so I googled more euphemisms and found something they didn't know.
Q) How do you balance pretentiousness with plot?
A) The show should be one third Thomas Harris, one third real psychology, one third special sauce of what's happening with characters. Fuller loves emotional plotting... watches his own show with Hugh and they're like, "What did we mean? Wow, that's pretentious."
A) Yes, but Will gave them to Francis.
Q) Does your character have the sexual aspects of the character, Armitage?
A) Francis has a kind of innocence to him, even given how dark and complicated his world is. I spent half my episodes naked--
(Fuller: You're welcome)