People always talk about Robb's mistakes or Ned's or whoever's. The mistakes of all the victims.
But everyone in this makes mistakes, is flawed, messes up. Some people end up dying for it, some don't.
Who are the people in this story who aren't making mistakes?
Varys? Maybe? Littlefinger, also, maybe. The more behind the scene movers and shakers.
But yeah, characters in the show definitely have varying amount of plot armor for their mistakes. Sometimes it feels like it is mostly done for plot reasons (it would be pretty dumb story wise if Dany died before her dragons could become relevant to the main story) and other times it feels like, well, sometimes that is how life is, sometimes you make a huge mistake and nothing bad comes of it, and other times you make a little mistake and the world crashes down on you.
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DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
Unfortunately for Robb when you rebel is doesn't become 1v1 no items Final Destination.
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I don't look at it as plot armor. More just a reflection of the randomness of life.
Littlefinger definitely is feeling the need to show off to someone, whether it's Varys, whores or whoever. And that's a mistake, for a plotter. But we don't now his goals for sure, so it's hard to know. Certainly if he is maneuvering for the throne he's an idiot. Tywin rules Westeros, near as dammit, without taking the throne.
Unfortunately for Robb when you rebel is doesn't become 1v1 no items Final Destination.
It kind of does if you hold The Neck (though I guess ship based attacks are still a concern, though wither winter coming I imagine the seas aren't going to be the best for traveling up north).
Admittedly, it's hard to get a good grasp of the geography of the world from just the show, but, from playing the board game Winterfell has a hell of a choke point for armies to try and get through.
Robbs biggest mistake was playing the ultimate game of thrones as a teenager against the most powerful and dangerous men in the realm, COMBINED with having shit for allies. He never had a chance. Even Karstark would not have mattered after the Greyjoys stabbed him in the back and Stannis failed at Kings Landing. Catelyn/Theon/Karstark/Bolton fucked him over completely, but then I'm not even sure Balon would care if he utilized Theon as a hostage instead of letting Theon backstab him.
He was a massive underdog even without all the backstabbing once Stannis failed his front.
Robb probably could have done fine if he had done a better job maintaining his alliances (Karstark, Freys) not banked on alliances before they happened (Theon) and if after Stannis fell if he retreated and consolidated his army and held the north and started up farming etc. If he had been content to be the King in the North and nothing more, instead of trying to go on a revenge march against King's Landing, he probably would have done alright overall.
He can't fight Tywin without riverrun, he goes for riverrun Balon goes for the north. Now he's fighting the isles (with the traitor house Bolton around) in the north and doesn't march on his enemies. His enemies defeat Stannis and then regroup with the might of martell, tyrell, lannister and baratheon who all march on his only ally riverrun. At which point will Robb hold with pretty much the entire country against him? His shot was winning quickly when the Lannisters were at their weakest, but as soon as Stannis fell and the south became loyal to the lion he was screwed. This is not even counting all the traitors in his field tripping him over. Robb was very capable, he could win battles. He was at most like 20 though and he could never play all his subjects and traitors well enough to manage a miracle like that.
At best he could hold out at moat cailin and try to hold the north (the north he already lost), which accomplishes exactly nothing and leaves him where he was at the start except he has now declared himself traitor to the crown. Kings landing was his objective remember.
Edit: The dvd specials show off some maps and geography, the north indeed has an extremely defensible position in the neck. You pretty much would have to bypass it by sea in order to conquer the north (marching on winterfell would be about as easy as marching on moscow), but Robb has already lost his objectives if he goes defensive.
Yeah he would have to toss aside his objective. But, I think after certain events his objective was basically impossible, cutting his losses and using his defensive position to broker some kind of favorable peace agreement for Winterfell was the only option left on the table at some point. Lick his wounds and bide his time up there, who knows how stable a potential Martell, Tyrell, Lannister and Baratheon alliance would be. They all have plenty of reasons to hate one another.
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DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
Unfortunately for Robb when you rebel is doesn't become 1v1 no items Final Destination.
It kind of does if you hold The Neck (though I guess ship based attacks are still a concern, though wither winter coming I imagine the seas aren't going to be the best for traveling up north).
Admittedly, it's hard to get a good grasp of the geography of the world from just the show, but, from playing the board game Winterfell has a hell of a choke point for armies to try and get through.
Nah, the north has fewer men than just about any other region. Robb rebelled whilst his dad was still alive, his goal was to save him. He couldn't wait at Moat Cailin. After Ned was executed he was made King of the North and the Riverlands. He couldn't abandon his new vassals (and he needed them to fight his new independence war) so Moat Cailin was again, a no no. Plus even if he did wait at Moat Cailin the South is eventually just going to come North after winter with a much larger army (and he'd have lost the Riverlands). Robb needed the Greyjoys help to have any chance of winning the war but he couldn't get them, Stannis killed Renly so the Baratheon-Tyrell mega army didn't threaten the Lannisters (and gave them loads of troops). basically Robb never had much chance of winning the war. Maybe if he had ten of himself commanding every army but he had to rely on Edmure....
Not sure what the point of this is but basically Robb was perhaps the best battlefield commander / tactician but he was a pretty crummy ruler.
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Robb was an amazing ruler, he was the only ruler we've been introduced to (except Ned) who wouldn't bend the laws for himself. Someone ruins his honor and murder his hostages/guests against the kings will? The punishment is death, it doesn't matter if it's inconvenient for him; he'll even act as headsman. That he was an able commander goes without saying.
In terms of winning the game in a tyrannical brutal system however he was unfit, as is anyone who isn't a psychopath. Remember though that the game was hugely stacked against him, his court wasn't useful for anything but winning singular battles either, and his situation was hopeless if he hoped to keep any honor/respect at all. Imagine how shitty his rule would be if he just bent the knee to Joffrey and didn't call the banners even after Ned was executed, the north would never have him as their lord.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
edited April 2014
Fwiw, I took it that with both Karstark and Talysa Rob's mistake was supposed to be one of idealism. Karstark because he couldn't bend Justice in a case of practical necessity; Talysa because he had to marry for love rather than profit.
I also took it that the war was winnable (edit: even after the Lannisters won at blackwater), though by a long shot, and that what it would have required was not grinding the numerically superior armies of the South out of existence, but winning enough decisive battles, and sacking enough important castles, that the bannermen deserted and/or the major houses switched sides.
Anyway, my point in bringing up his mistakes was not supposed to be that he deserved what he got, or that other people did not make mistakes, or whatever, but rather just that what would be ordinary hero-doings in another type of story (marrying for love, uncompromising Justice) were here given a rather more practical cast.
Robb was an amazing ruler, he was the only ruler we've been introduced to (except Ned) who wouldn't bend the laws for himself. Someone ruins his honor and murder his hostages/guests against the kings will? The punishment is death, it doesn't matter if it's inconvenient for him; he'll even act as headsman. That he was an able commander goes without saying.
Went back on his word for a hot piece of ass.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Karstark was a grief stricken fool. Murdering Jaime or his cousins for Jaime defending himself on a battlefield isn't justice, it's cold blooded revenge.
And the war was very winnable, up until Stannis lost. Hell I'll say the Lannisters looked like they were truly in the shit before Tyrion/Tywin pulled that miracle. If they'd lost Kings landing to Stannis they'd lose pretty much everything.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
I don't look at it as plot armor. More just a reflection of the randomness of life.
This. There is some plot armour involved but it is not possessed by characters so much as forces.
It's the fact about fantasy worlds you should remember when you find yourself in one: Maybe it's about you and all your actions, maybe you're just one of the many side-characters in that other guy's story.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
Karstark was a grief stricken fool. Murdering Jaime or his cousins for Jaime defending himself on a battlefield isn't justice, it's cold blooded revenge.
And the war was very winnable, up until Stannis lost. Hell I'll say the Lannisters looked like they were truly in the shit before Tyrion/Tywin pulled that miracle. If they'd lost Kings landing to Stannis they'd lose pretty much everything.
It was the execution of Karstark that was justice. As in, Robb couldn't not murder him because he believed in justice and honour. Even though without the forces of Karstark he had little hope of winning.
Robb is very much his father's son. In that he learned and believed in his father's lessons. It's just that his father never told him that sometimes you have to give up romantic notions in favour of having a ten to one advantage on the battlefield.
Robb was an amazing ruler, he was the only ruler we've been introduced to (except Ned) who wouldn't bend the laws for himself. Someone ruins his honor and murder his hostages/guests against the kings will? The punishment is death, it doesn't matter if it's inconvenient for him; he'll even act as headsman. That he was an able commander goes without saying.
In terms of winning the game in a tyrannical brutal system however he was unfit, as is anyone who isn't a psychopath. Remember though that the game was hugely stacked against him, his court wasn't useful for anything but winning singular battles either, and his situation was hopeless if he hoped to keep any honor/respect at all. Imagine how shitty his rule would be if he just bent the knee to Joffrey and didn't call the banners even after Ned was executed, the north would never have him as their lord.
My understanding of the justice system is that all crimes committed there is an option to either enact the usual sentence or for them to take the black and join the Night's Watch (exception being desertion of the Night's Watch for obvious reasons). It was perfectly in Robb's right to not execute Karstark, but he chose to do so anyway, supposedly to not piss off Tywin Lannister, but really, I think it was so he didn't appear weak to his own men.
So, I have a question for you guys. Who do you think is the most dangerous person in Westeros?
Cersei, as she's now back to being Queen Reagent, and possibly with more power than she's ever had before as I don't know if Tommen is old enough to have any real authority.
I'd put her above Tywin, as at least he doesn't ruin people's lives over petty bullshit.
So, I have a question for you guys. Who do you think is the most dangerous person in Westeros?
Jaqen H'ghar, assuming he's still in Westeros.
Yeah, for "being in the general vicinity of" it's between him and the Mountain. At least Jaqen will have a reason to kill you.
In overall, "general sense of dread" style, it'd probably be Tywin.
My unconventional answer is Melisandre, but that depends on how much stock you put in the Red God.
Its hard to deny shadow baby.
There are other characters that are basically ticking time bombs with the potential to fuck up everyone's lives, but in terms of a characters lethality, I think the red woman is a good bet
So, I have a question for you guys. Who do you think is the most dangerous person in Westeros?
Jaqen H'ghar, assuming he's still in Westeros.
I'd agree, considering that singlehandedly he seems to be the equivalent to a Jason ,Freddy or Michael Meyers.
Brought this up earlier, but I still find it highly amusing that we now have two instances where Roose gets pissed off taht his subordinates cut off pieces of valuable pawns.
"GODDAMMIT LOCKE, YOU CHOPPED OFF KEY TO OUR ALLIANCE'S HAND. GODDAMMIT RAMSAY, YOU CUT OFF THE HEIR OF THE IRON ISLANDS DICK! AM I THE ONLY PROFESSIONAL HERE!?"
i'm not actually sure if he was that upset about Jaime or if it was just show , though
I think Tywin has the longest reach. If he wants you dead it WILL happen no matter where you run. Melisandre doesn't seem to have that kind of reach without an outside power source. Next to him I'd say Cersei or Littlefinger in terms of "will kill you for any reason and from any distance."
For personal killing, Jaqen is pretty unmatched. Plenty of tools and you'll never know it's him.
I'm not buying all these votes for Tywin. He presumably wants Stannis and Robb and various other people dead, but Robb practically had to march himself into the hands of someone willing to take Tywin's coin to do the deed. His power is nothing compared to the magics of Melisandre or Jaqen. Especially if Jaqen is just an agent of some League of Assassins-esque group that works for the Fire God cult.
In fact, I kind of get the impression that Westeros is in general a two-bit provincial back water compared to Essos.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
If you go by the 'ending up dead because you do something wrong' logic, which I'm not such a fan of, but whatever, maybe Robb's mistake was overcompensating for his own failings.
He broke his oath! That's a big deal. And he forgave his mother for her treasonous act. And he did look down on the Freys. He was not quite the foolish paragon he was made out to be.
Maybe he was just a hypocrite. Or maybe he started to see that in himself, and felt a need to make a stand when Karstark killed those kids. He could have sent Karstark off to take the Black, or any number of compromise solutions.
But in the end, I think he died because Tywin Lannister outmaneuvered him. He lost at a battle of politics, just as he would have lost in a swordfight against (pre-maiming) Jaime. Not his fault. You can't be good at everything. Nobody would have blamed him for losing a swordfight with the Mountain.
So, I have a question for you guys. Who do you think is the most dangerous person in Westeros?
Cersei, as she's now back to being Queen Reagent, and possibly with more power than she's ever had before as I don't know if Tommen is old enough to have any real authority.
I'd put her above Tywin, as at least he doesn't ruin people's lives over petty bullshit.
She's queen regent now, but Tywin is the one running the show. He doesn't care enough to get involved if she wants to torture/kill some random that isn't important, but he would call her bullshit if she ever tries to do any mass damage or starts fucking with anyone that matters.
Robbs biggest mistake was playing the ultimate game of thrones as a teenager against the most powerful and dangerous men in the realm, COMBINED with having shit for allies. He never had a chance. Even Karstark would not have mattered after the Greyjoys stabbed him in the back and Stannis failed at Kings Landing. Catelyn/Theon/Karstark/Bolton fucked him over completely, but then I'm not even sure Balon would care if he utilized Theon as a hostage instead of letting Theon backstab him.
He was a massive underdog even without all the backstabbing once Stannis failed his front.
Seems someone has an issue with victims being victims. She's not even the worst kind of useless, she throws japes and she would totally do stuff it that were actually an option to her.
I guess she could have ninja kicked some adult experienced armored knights in court when they started abusing her.
Well at the start of the series she actively embraced Joffrey and the Lannisters. She lied about Arya and Joffrey and refused to go back to Winterfell when shit started to hit the fan. She had a chance to kill Joffrey while he mocked her over her father's head but didn't.
Basically its hard to like a character who never acts and when she does it demonstrates bad values/decisions. Sophie Turner has done a good job in season 2 and 3 and so far in 4 making her sympathetic but there's not much to like about her initially.
It's called "character development." From that perspective, Sansa is more interesting than Arya. Arya starts out badass and continues badass, pretty straightforward.
Arya starts out badass and quickly becomes a fucking psychotic, which a large swathe of the audience doesn't quite seem to get
Like, a ten-year-old making someone beg for his life before she shoves a rapier through his throat is not "badass," it is "unbelievably fucked up"
Sansa makes a lot of mistakes and learns from them. She starts out a spoilt princess and goes through the wringer, learning about herself and life all the way. Yeah, she didn't kill Joffrey when she had the chance, because, duh, she'd have been tortured to death for it.
I mean if I remember correctly she actually takes a step towards Joffrey and then the Hound steps in front of her. But it's been a while since I watched Season 1 and I may be making that up.
I mean if I remember correctly she actually takes a step towards Joffrey and then the Hound steps in front of her. But it's been a while since I watched Season 1 and I may be making that up.
You're not.
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Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
A character from another show whose only similarity is "female" and "widely disliked by the audience." Other than that, there's pretty much nothing to compare the two characters, but I guess due to the lack of prominent women in television the comparison jumped out to some.
The similarity is that they are female characters struggling with a lack of agency in a male-focused story, who are hated by the audience for that lack of agency.
I wouldn't describe what she's doing as "struggling". Standing around parties waiting for agency to magically fall in her lap is not "struggling".
How exactly is she supposed to gain agency?
Brilliant escape attempt.
Wanton murder.
Learning the first thing about politics and intrigue.
You do realise that she has no way of doing those first two, right? She is being watched. Even if she manages to escape she'll just be captured because you can't exactly escape from Tywin. And there's no place she can go anyway.
And she has learned the first thing about politics and intrigue. That first thing being that you can't actually do anything without power. And she can't get any power because she is a prisoner.
It would not be that hard to hide a knife in a dress. She is alone with Shae in her room in like 50% of her scenes.
Being watched is what makes it an escape instead of you just leaving. Disguises. Rope out the window at night. This is a still a fantasy adventure story. If you can't meet the standards of such you can gtfo because you are boring and a waste of screen time.
Yeah man let's make a rope ladder out of bedsheets capable of getting down a tower about the size of Big Fucking Ben, I'm sure my maids, who are spying on me for my tormentors, won't notice the sheets missing and no one will notice me climbing down the side and also I won't fall into the giant fucking spiked moat below
Then I'll go out into the streets alone dressed like a noble with no protection even though a bunch of commoners tried to rape me a couple months ago because the nobles in this city are abusive fucks
Then I'll get through the gates that are guarded by people employed by my wardens no questions asked
Then I'll walk across half a war-torn continent full of people legally empowered to rape and murder me no questions asked
Sounds like a great fucking plan when I've got the Tyrells over here promising to get me the fuck out, believe you me
I mean if I remember correctly she actually takes a step towards Joffrey and then the Hound steps in front of her. But it's been a while since I watched Season 1 and I may be making that up.
You're not.
not making it up, you mean. She takes a couple of steps before the Hound grabs her.
Seems someone has an issue with victims being victims. She's not even the worst kind of useless, she throws japes and she would totally do stuff it that were actually an option to her.
I guess she could have ninja kicked some adult experienced armored knights in court when they started abusing her.
Well at the start of the series she actively embraced Joffrey and the Lannisters. She lied about Arya and Joffrey and refused to go back to Winterfell when shit started to hit the fan. She had a chance to kill Joffrey while he mocked her over her father's head but didn't.
Basically its hard to like a character who never acts and when she does it demonstrates bad values/decisions. Sophie Turner has done a good job in season 2 and 3 and so far in 4 making her sympathetic but there's not much to like about her initially.
It's called "character development." From that perspective, Sansa is more interesting than Arya. Arya starts out badass and continues badass, pretty straightforward.
Arya starts out badass and quickly becomes a fucking psychotic, which a large swathe of the audience doesn't quite seem to get
Like, a ten-year-old making someone beg for his life before she shoves a rapier through his throat is not "badass," it is "unbelievably fucked up"
Arya is the hero Westeros needs. That dude deserved what he got.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
If you weren't a little disturbed by the smile that Arya had after she killed that guy, deserved or not, then.....well, I don't know what to say.
Finding joy in killing a person when you're a preteen is not heroic. It's not normal. It's fucked up, sad, and you shouldn't be cheering for a person's innocence being destroyed.
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Varys? Maybe? Littlefinger, also, maybe. The more behind the scene movers and shakers.
But yeah, characters in the show definitely have varying amount of plot armor for their mistakes. Sometimes it feels like it is mostly done for plot reasons (it would be pretty dumb story wise if Dany died before her dragons could become relevant to the main story) and other times it feels like, well, sometimes that is how life is, sometimes you make a huge mistake and nothing bad comes of it, and other times you make a little mistake and the world crashes down on you.
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Littlefinger definitely is feeling the need to show off to someone, whether it's Varys, whores or whoever. And that's a mistake, for a plotter. But we don't now his goals for sure, so it's hard to know. Certainly if he is maneuvering for the throne he's an idiot. Tywin rules Westeros, near as dammit, without taking the throne.
It kind of does if you hold The Neck (though I guess ship based attacks are still a concern, though wither winter coming I imagine the seas aren't going to be the best for traveling up north).
Admittedly, it's hard to get a good grasp of the geography of the world from just the show, but, from playing the board game Winterfell has a hell of a choke point for armies to try and get through.
He can't fight Tywin without riverrun, he goes for riverrun Balon goes for the north. Now he's fighting the isles (with the traitor house Bolton around) in the north and doesn't march on his enemies. His enemies defeat Stannis and then regroup with the might of martell, tyrell, lannister and baratheon who all march on his only ally riverrun. At which point will Robb hold with pretty much the entire country against him? His shot was winning quickly when the Lannisters were at their weakest, but as soon as Stannis fell and the south became loyal to the lion he was screwed. This is not even counting all the traitors in his field tripping him over. Robb was very capable, he could win battles. He was at most like 20 though and he could never play all his subjects and traitors well enough to manage a miracle like that.
At best he could hold out at moat cailin and try to hold the north (the north he already lost), which accomplishes exactly nothing and leaves him where he was at the start except he has now declared himself traitor to the crown. Kings landing was his objective remember.
Edit: The dvd specials show off some maps and geography, the north indeed has an extremely defensible position in the neck. You pretty much would have to bypass it by sea in order to conquer the north (marching on winterfell would be about as easy as marching on moscow), but Robb has already lost his objectives if he goes defensive.
Nah, the north has fewer men than just about any other region. Robb rebelled whilst his dad was still alive, his goal was to save him. He couldn't wait at Moat Cailin. After Ned was executed he was made King of the North and the Riverlands. He couldn't abandon his new vassals (and he needed them to fight his new independence war) so Moat Cailin was again, a no no. Plus even if he did wait at Moat Cailin the South is eventually just going to come North after winter with a much larger army (and he'd have lost the Riverlands). Robb needed the Greyjoys help to have any chance of winning the war but he couldn't get them, Stannis killed Renly so the Baratheon-Tyrell mega army didn't threaten the Lannisters (and gave them loads of troops). basically Robb never had much chance of winning the war. Maybe if he had ten of himself commanding every army but he had to rely on Edmure....
Not sure what the point of this is but basically Robb was perhaps the best battlefield commander / tactician but he was a pretty crummy ruler.
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In terms of winning the game in a tyrannical brutal system however he was unfit, as is anyone who isn't a psychopath. Remember though that the game was hugely stacked against him, his court wasn't useful for anything but winning singular battles either, and his situation was hopeless if he hoped to keep any honor/respect at all. Imagine how shitty his rule would be if he just bent the knee to Joffrey and didn't call the banners even after Ned was executed, the north would never have him as their lord.
I also took it that the war was winnable (edit: even after the Lannisters won at blackwater), though by a long shot, and that what it would have required was not grinding the numerically superior armies of the South out of existence, but winning enough decisive battles, and sacking enough important castles, that the bannermen deserted and/or the major houses switched sides.
Anyway, my point in bringing up his mistakes was not supposed to be that he deserved what he got, or that other people did not make mistakes, or whatever, but rather just that what would be ordinary hero-doings in another type of story (marrying for love, uncompromising Justice) were here given a rather more practical cast.
Went back on his word for a hot piece of ass.
And the war was very winnable, up until Stannis lost. Hell I'll say the Lannisters looked like they were truly in the shit before Tyrion/Tywin pulled that miracle. If they'd lost Kings landing to Stannis they'd lose pretty much everything.
This. There is some plot armour involved but it is not possessed by characters so much as forces.
It's the fact about fantasy worlds you should remember when you find yourself in one: Maybe it's about you and all your actions, maybe you're just one of the many side-characters in that other guy's story.
It was the execution of Karstark that was justice. As in, Robb couldn't not murder him because he believed in justice and honour. Even though without the forces of Karstark he had little hope of winning.
Robb is very much his father's son. In that he learned and believed in his father's lessons. It's just that his father never told him that sometimes you have to give up romantic notions in favour of having a ten to one advantage on the battlefield.
My understanding of the justice system is that all crimes committed there is an option to either enact the usual sentence or for them to take the black and join the Night's Watch (exception being desertion of the Night's Watch for obvious reasons). It was perfectly in Robb's right to not execute Karstark, but he chose to do so anyway, supposedly to not piss off Tywin Lannister, but really, I think it was so he didn't appear weak to his own men.
Ftfyhth
Tywin
Screw with him or get on his wrong side and he will end you.
Clearly Arya.
I know I wouldn't want to be on her list.
Jaqen H'ghar, assuming he's still in Westeros.
PSN: jrrl_absent
Yeah, for "being in the general vicinity of" it's between him and the Mountain. At least Jaqen will have a reason to kill you.
In overall, "general sense of dread" style, it'd probably be Tywin.
My unconventional answer is Melisandre, but that depends on how much stock you put in the Red God.
Cersei, as she's now back to being Queen Reagent, and possibly with more power than she's ever had before as I don't know if Tommen is old enough to have any real authority.
I'd put her above Tywin, as at least he doesn't ruin people's lives over petty bullshit.
Its hard to deny shadow baby.
There are other characters that are basically ticking time bombs with the potential to fuck up everyone's lives, but in terms of a characters lethality, I think the red woman is a good bet
I'd agree, considering that singlehandedly he seems to be the equivalent to a Jason ,Freddy or Michael Meyers.
Brought this up earlier, but I still find it highly amusing that we now have two instances where Roose gets pissed off taht his subordinates cut off pieces of valuable pawns.
"GODDAMMIT LOCKE, YOU CHOPPED OFF KEY TO OUR ALLIANCE'S HAND. GODDAMMIT RAMSAY, YOU CUT OFF THE HEIR OF THE IRON ISLANDS DICK! AM I THE ONLY PROFESSIONAL HERE!?"
For personal killing, Jaqen is pretty unmatched. Plenty of tools and you'll never know it's him.
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In fact, I kind of get the impression that Westeros is in general a two-bit provincial back water compared to Essos.
He broke his oath! That's a big deal. And he forgave his mother for her treasonous act. And he did look down on the Freys. He was not quite the foolish paragon he was made out to be.
Maybe he was just a hypocrite. Or maybe he started to see that in himself, and felt a need to make a stand when Karstark killed those kids. He could have sent Karstark off to take the Black, or any number of compromise solutions.
But in the end, I think he died because Tywin Lannister outmaneuvered him. He lost at a battle of politics, just as he would have lost in a swordfight against (pre-maiming) Jaime. Not his fault. You can't be good at everything. Nobody would have blamed him for losing a swordfight with the Mountain.
She's queen regent now, but Tywin is the one running the show. He doesn't care enough to get involved if she wants to torture/kill some random that isn't important, but he would call her bullshit if she ever tries to do any mass damage or starts fucking with anyone that matters.
You know who's fault Robbs downfall is?
GODDAMN GREAT JON UMBER
Arya starts out badass and quickly becomes a fucking psychotic, which a large swathe of the audience doesn't quite seem to get
Like, a ten-year-old making someone beg for his life before she shoves a rapier through his throat is not "badass," it is "unbelievably fucked up"
I mean if I remember correctly she actually takes a step towards Joffrey and then the Hound steps in front of her. But it's been a while since I watched Season 1 and I may be making that up.
You're not.
Yeah man let's make a rope ladder out of bedsheets capable of getting down a tower about the size of Big Fucking Ben, I'm sure my maids, who are spying on me for my tormentors, won't notice the sheets missing and no one will notice me climbing down the side and also I won't fall into the giant fucking spiked moat below
Then I'll go out into the streets alone dressed like a noble with no protection even though a bunch of commoners tried to rape me a couple months ago because the nobles in this city are abusive fucks
Then I'll get through the gates that are guarded by people employed by my wardens no questions asked
Then I'll walk across half a war-torn continent full of people legally empowered to rape and murder me no questions asked
Sounds like a great fucking plan when I've got the Tyrells over here promising to get me the fuck out, believe you me
not making it up, you mean. She takes a couple of steps before the Hound grabs her.
I thought it was one it was one word but I wasn't sure.
@simonwolf showed me this awhile back. Bronn was my favorite.
The whole Niko Bellic look.
Arya is the hero Westeros needs. That dude deserved what he got.
Finding joy in killing a person when you're a preteen is not heroic. It's not normal. It's fucked up, sad, and you shouldn't be cheering for a person's innocence being destroyed.