Flash episode first, then Arrow. Though, they're really two self contained episodes, so if you were watching one show at a time, you wouldn't miss anything vital.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Flash episode first, then Arrow. Though, they're really two self contained episodes, so if you were watching one show at a time, you wouldn't miss anything vital.
If you watch them back to back, there's actually a really good throughline in the Ollie/Barry conversations.
You know, I've been wondering... (midseason finale spoilers & speculation)
If Oliver comes back to life through a Lazarus pit, and the stuff in those pits is shown as green, and it changes him somehow... will we finally get the "Green Arrow"?
You made an assumption. Turned out to be wrong. Not the show's fault.
You didn't find something believable. That's fine! It doesn't mean it was retconned.
Or you could go on about a character's height when shooting an arrow means it's nonsense that another character is alive. Those are always great discussions too.
True or false: if a character is shown to be in a state that a reasonable person would consider them dead, it is reasonable to assume that the character is dead.
There's just all sorts of assumptions going on in this sentence.
What is considered reasonable is going to vary person to person. Even more so with a work of fiction and their expectations from that fiction.
Otherwise I've already explained myself.
If you want to continue to declare that you're arbiter of what is and is not reasonable then post about it in the Arrow thread and I'll be happy to point out that you are not.
I asked a very simple question, one that did not in any way, shape, or form delcare myself the "arbiter of what is and is not reasonable."
I said, and I quote: "True or false: if a character is shown to be in a state that a reasonable person would consider them dead, it is reasonable to assume that the character is dead."
I'm not claiming to be any sort of arbiter. I am asking you if a reasonable person would draw the conclusion that this person in this image is dead:
Arrow Season 1, Episode 3 spoilers:
Spoiler alert: the characters in the show think he's dead. At least one TV recap site said: "Deadshot’s demise appears to be beyond question".
I understand not wanting to answer that question because it would hurt your argument, that's cool. But framing me as some sort of as insane, unreasonable "arbiter of what is and is not reasonable" is pretty goosey.
You know, I've been wondering... (midseason finale spoilers & speculation)
If Oliver comes back to life through a Lazarus pit, and the stuff in those pits is shown as green, and it changes him somehow... will we finally get the "Green Arrow"?
I think the whole point behind the name is that he'll become the Green Arrow when he's fully recognised as a hero, not just a vigilante or a thug. He was originally the vigilante, then the hood, then the arrow. Once he's a proper hero and not just some brute with a bow, he'll be the Green Arrow.
I said, and I quote: "True or false: if a character is shown to be in a state that a reasonable person would consider them dead, it is reasonable to assume that the character is dead."
and this
I'm not claiming to be any sort of arbiter. I am asking you if a reasonable person would draw the conclusion that this person in this image is dead:
Are not the same question.
The first is couched in you already deciding what was reasonable several posts ago and myself and others disagreeing with it. What you're clearly trying to ask is the second question.
And sure, from that single frame it might be reasonable to assume he's dead. But given nothing is shown of his "death" than falling to the ground I see no reason to consider it only an assumption. When it turned out to not be the case it was perfectly believable and far from a retcon. Which, as you might recall, was the claim you made that I took issue with.
You know, I've been wondering... (midseason finale spoilers & speculation)
If Oliver comes back to life through a Lazarus pit, and the stuff in those pits is shown as green, and it changes him somehow... will we finally get the "Green Arrow"?
When Roy took the name Arsenal, instead of Red Arrow, I think that dismissed the show ever going with Green Arrow. Although, Sara called herself 'Canary' and not 'Black Canary', so there's that. I have a feeling that Ollie's return will be like a rebirth for his Oliver Queen persona, trying to find ways to repair his humanity and inspire as a person and not a hero.
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I have beat Rygar on the NES and many of you have not.
You know, I've been wondering... (midseason finale spoilers & speculation)
If Oliver comes back to life through a Lazarus pit, and the stuff in those pits is shown as green, and it changes him somehow... will we finally get the "Green Arrow"?
When Roy took the name Arsenal, instead of Red Arrow, I think that dismissed the show ever going with Green Arrow. Although, Sara called herself 'Canary' and not 'Black Canary', so there's that. I have a feeling that Ollie's return will be like a rebirth for his Oliver Queen persona, trying to find ways to repair his humanity and inspire as a person and not a hero.
Red Arrow is who he's spent the least time as actually. Roy was Speedy for decades, Arsenal for another, and only then Red Arrow before apparently reverting back to Arsenal afterward.
Some WB people, and former WB employees, have "joked" that the Green Lantern movie poisoned the well so much that they're still afraid of using the word "green" in anything.
And sure, from that single frame it might be reasonable to assume he's dead.
Cool, I'm glad you agree.
But given nothing is shown of his "death" than falling to the ground...
And, ya know. Getting shot in the eye with an arrow. And we've mainly seen Ollie kill people up until this point. And Ollie and Diggle thinks he's dead, and say so in the episode.
When it turned out to not be the case it was perfectly believable and far from a retcon. Which, as you might recall, was the claim you made that I took issue with.
Even excluding archery knowledge, I don't know man. You just said it was reasonable to assume that he was dead. To go from a reasonable assumption of death to "Nope I miraculously survived without any explanation" sure feels more like a retcon than "oh, I guess he survived having a broadhead arrow to the eye, my bad" to me.
The only way it isn't a retcon is if the writers had planned a whole season+ ahead of time...bwhaha, yeah, retcon. Probably not even the same writer killed him/brought him back.
The only way it isn't a retcon is if the writers had planned a whole season+ ahead of time...bwhaha, yeah, retcon. Probably not even the same writer killed him/brought him back.
Are we talking about Deadshot?? Diggle's brothers name was tattooed on his chest; they planned it ahead of time.
Wii U sucks, but my NNID is da66en. Steam is route66. 3DS is 2938-8099-8160.
Neo Geo Big Red owners club.
2009 PAX Puzzle Quest Champion
I have beat Rygar on the NES and many of you have not.
The only way it isn't a retcon is if the writers had planned a whole season+ ahead of time...bwhaha, yeah, retcon. Probably not even the same writer killed him/brought him back.
Are we talking about Deadshot?? Diggle's brothers name was tattooed on his chest; they planned it ahead of time.
That was mentioned and used in the next episode. I see no evidence that they planned to bring him back.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
You know that I think? They always wanted to bring Deadshot back, but gave him the ambiguous death treatment in his first appearance because when you are only on the third episode of a new show, you don't even know if you're going to get as far as the back nine, much less a second season... and I bet it's considered either poor form or bad luck to make obvious plot hooks for the future when you're still trying to set up the world the show is set in.
You know, I've been wondering... (midseason finale spoilers & speculation)
If Oliver comes back to life through a Lazarus pit, and the stuff in those pits is shown as green, and it changes him somehow... will we finally get the "Green Arrow"?
When Roy took the name Arsenal, instead of Red Arrow, I think that dismissed the show ever going with Green Arrow. Although, Sara called herself 'Canary' and not 'Black Canary', so there's that. I have a feeling that Ollie's return will be like a rebirth for his Oliver Queen persona, trying to find ways to repair his humanity and inspire as a person and not a hero.
The reason Sara was named the Canary is because
They're setting up Laurel to become the Black Canary.
Notice how into black she's become since she got Sara's jacket/Sara died?
"Here's your gym outfit, you've got two options, red or black?"
"Black. Definitely black" (barf)
I always wondered why Sara was never the Black Canary, but it become pretty evident when she gave the jacket to Laurel, and was clinched when she died.
Plus I think there's been some promotional pictures taken of Laurel under the name Black Canary.
Sara was awesome, Laurel sucks. I wish this season was an angry Sara trying to investigate the death of Laurel, but it wouldn't have tied into the League of Assassins stuff. Unless they killed Laurel because Sara went AWOL.
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The only way it isn't a retcon is if the writers had planned a whole season+ ahead of time...bwhaha, yeah, retcon. Probably not even the same writer killed him/brought him back.
I...what? Are you seriously saying you don't think that the writers and show runners could have planned out a season ahead of time?
And sure, from that single frame it might be reasonable to assume he's dead.
Cool, I'm glad you agree.
But given nothing is shown of his "death" than falling to the ground...
And, ya know. Getting shot in the eye with an arrow. And we've mainly seen Ollie kill people up until this point. And Ollie and Diggle thinks he's dead, and say so in the episode.
When it turned out to not be the case it was perfectly believable and far from a retcon. Which, as you might recall, was the claim you made that I took issue with.
Even excluding archery knowledge, I don't know man. You just said it was reasonable to assume that he was dead. To go from a reasonable assumption of death to "Nope I miraculously survived without any explanation" sure feels more like a retcon than "oh, I guess he survived having a broadhead arrow to the eye, my bad" to me.
Dude you are stretching some statements here. I never said Nope "I miraculously survived without any explanation."
The scene was ambiguous.
One could assume Deadshot was dead. One could have assumed he wasn't. I never ruled out the second one. Only you have because for some reason you desperately want this to be a retcon.
The only way it isn't a retcon is if the writers had planned a whole season+ ahead of time...bwhaha, yeah, retcon. Probably not even the same writer killed him/brought him back.
Not to mention you can survive horrifying eye Trauma. Look online for results like I recall a dude took a drill to the eye with horrifying xray and he lived.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Though the calendar does lack Diggle, so I guess its like the show, always forgets about the diggle (it even has Sarah, proving whoever did the calendar does not watch the show! I mean my castle calendar knows the sexy that is Resposito!)
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Though the calendar does lack Diggle, so I guess its like the show, always forgets about the diggle (it even has Sarah, proving whoever did the calendar does not watch the show! I mean my castle calendar knows the sexy that is Resposito!)
Of course it has Sarah, she was friends with the Salmon Ladder. Does it have Felicity?
"But after a terrible science experiment went wrong leaving me unable to wear a shirt I abandoned being the Green Arrow and instead became: The Salmon Ladder."
"Ollie there's no way we could climb out of this pit before it fills with cement!"
"Just hold on to my abs."
Posts
Flash first, then Arrow.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Flash episode first, then Arrow. Though, they're really two self contained episodes, so if you were watching one show at a time, you wouldn't miss anything vital.
If you watch them back to back, there's actually a really good throughline in the Ollie/Barry conversations.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
I asked a very simple question, one that did not in any way, shape, or form delcare myself the "arbiter of what is and is not reasonable."
I said, and I quote: "True or false: if a character is shown to be in a state that a reasonable person would consider them dead, it is reasonable to assume that the character is dead."
I'm not claiming to be any sort of arbiter. I am asking you if a reasonable person would draw the conclusion that this person in this image is dead:
Arrow Season 1, Episode 3 spoilers:
Spoiler alert: the characters in the show think he's dead. At least one TV recap site said: "Deadshot’s demise appears to be beyond question".
I understand not wanting to answer that question because it would hurt your argument, that's cool. But framing me as some sort of as insane, unreasonable "arbiter of what is and is not reasonable" is pretty goosey.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Because then he'll be rolling in the green.
Oliver is going to make a horrid pun about being Green at some point and it'll be all you people's fault.
and this
Are not the same question.
The first is couched in you already deciding what was reasonable several posts ago and myself and others disagreeing with it. What you're clearly trying to ask is the second question.
And sure, from that single frame it might be reasonable to assume he's dead. But given nothing is shown of his "death" than falling to the ground I see no reason to consider it only an assumption. When it turned out to not be the case it was perfectly believable and far from a retcon. Which, as you might recall, was the claim you made that I took issue with.
Neo Geo Big Red owners club.
2009 PAX Puzzle Quest Champion
I have beat Rygar on the NES and many of you have not.
And, ya know. Getting shot in the eye with an arrow. And we've mainly seen Ollie kill people up until this point. And Ollie and Diggle thinks he's dead, and say so in the episode.
Even excluding archery knowledge, I don't know man. You just said it was reasonable to assume that he was dead. To go from a reasonable assumption of death to "Nope I miraculously survived without any explanation" sure feels more like a retcon than "oh, I guess he survived having a broadhead arrow to the eye, my bad" to me.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Are we talking about Deadshot?? Diggle's brothers name was tattooed on his chest; they planned it ahead of time.
Neo Geo Big Red owners club.
2009 PAX Puzzle Quest Champion
I have beat Rygar on the NES and many of you have not.
That was mentioned and used in the next episode. I see no evidence that they planned to bring him back.
The reason Sara was named the Canary is because
Notice how into black she's become since she got Sara's jacket/Sara died?
"Here's your gym outfit, you've got two options, red or black?"
"Black. Definitely black" (barf)
I always wondered why Sara was never the Black Canary, but it become pretty evident when she gave the jacket to Laurel, and was clinched when she died.
Plus I think there's been some promotional pictures taken of Laurel under the name Black Canary.
Sara was awesome, Laurel sucks. I wish this season was an angry Sara trying to investigate the death of Laurel, but it wouldn't have tied into the League of Assassins stuff. Unless they killed Laurel because Sara went AWOL.
Please shoot me a PM if you add me so I know to add you back.
I...what? Are you seriously saying you don't think that the writers and show runners could have planned out a season ahead of time?
Dude you are stretching some statements here. I never said Nope "I miraculously survived without any explanation."
The scene was ambiguous.
One could assume Deadshot was dead. One could have assumed he wasn't. I never ruled out the second one. Only you have because for some reason you desperately want this to be a retcon.
Er, no. Deadshot was back in the first season.
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's just really damn rare.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
pleasepaypreacher.net
I dunno bro.
He was laying on the ground and everything.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Same difference.
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
Of course it has Sarah, she was friends with the Salmon Ladder. Does it have Felicity?
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
"Ollie there's no way we could climb out of this pit before it fills with cement!"
"Just hold on to my abs."