Yeah, there are mid tier characters that you wouldn't know are mid tier as a causal player, but Ganondorf is so low-tier that even I knew he was awful before I knew what tiers even were.
Also, it is disingenuous as fuck to compare villains to women in terms of a diverse cast.
Gannondorf was not a great character, but he was fun. He was always competing with Wario for my favorite character in Brawl. Wario was my go to if things ever got serious, though.
Gannondorf was not a great character, but he was fun. He was always competing with Wario for my favorite character in Brawl. Wario was my go to if things ever got serious, though.
Ganondorf might be my favorite Nintendo character, and I'll always play him when I can
But when I wanted to win I brought out Ness, and that says a few things
Up B his Wizard spin taunt but now it carries him upward and he can fly for a bit. He can attack while flying but drops immediately.
Neutral B Sword slash. Reflect move. Does a little damage. very fast.
Side B Magic orb. Chargeable. In the air it will fire at a downward angle. While its on the screen it can be deflected with any attack but if you use side B to do so itll gain explosive properties.
Down B Triforce of power. Works like Wiifit trainers deep breathing but ups his speed and weight instead of attack power.
His regular attacks should just be slow but beefy sword strikes and kicks but with super armor on most of them so faster characters cant curb stomp him
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Neutral B: Black Hole: a chargeable projectile. A tap fires a quick sphere. Charging creates a large ball that shatters into a bunch of projectiles with weak homing.
Down B: Warlock Punch: on the ground, same move it is now. In the air, a diving punch that creates a ahockwave when he hits the ground.
Maybe I'm crazy but I didn't think Ganondorf is that bad of a character. His movement/attack speed is obviously slow, sure, but he takes damage like a tank and hit like a truck. (You can also compensate a bit for his slow movement on stage with his Down B and Side B specials) And he is fun to play! Would he be better with a unique moveset? Almost certainly, but Captain Falcon's moves being what they are (mostly brutal looking punches and kicks) they fit Ganondorf pretty well. Better than any other character at least. With his appearance in Melee I kind of saw it as "oh, they wanted to include another major player from Zelda but didn't have a lot of time." That was fine with me because I would rather have Ganondorf in that way then not have him be in the game and I've always thought he was different enough. More Wolf than Falco to Fox's Captain Falcon, at any rate.
I could see how he would be lacking in a two player fight as well but in a four person free-for-all he becomes a sort of dreaded adversary.
Also, it is disingenuous as fuck to compare villains to women in terms of a diverse cast.
They could be female villains too, I honestly don't care. You're making it sound like I was saying a sexist thing when all I was really saying is that the game could use more of both. Then again, throwing in someone like Daisy just for the sake of diversity is a waste of a character slot too.
I really hope Ganondorf doesn't get a sword. Recycled animations or not, his playstyle in Melee was really fun and unique. His move speed was slow as hell and his range wasn't great, but his moves actually came out average-to-fast (with multiple attacks being near-instant) while hitting BONKERS hard. There's no way to add greatsword range to that and keep the same feel. He'd either lose his insane power, lose his disproportionately good attack speed, or be Ike.
That said, you could redo his specials and all of his ground attacks short of jab and up-smash at no great loss. His aerial game pre-Brawl was glorious, though, and I'd really hate to lose it.
I played Ganondorf in Brawl online against other PAers when the game came out. I played a lot of Brawl Online with other PAers back in the day.
This was me as well, I choose him because people were saying he was a bad fighter, and I wanted to play as an underdog. It was a pretty big change from playing as Fox for the previous games, but meteor smashing people to death was so good.
as far as ungodly muscle is concerned, Ike was leagues ahead
at least of couple of not-laggy moves to use in between the big hits, the kick ass neutral a combo particularly, plus the huge attack range, which significantly upped the odds of actually catching someone with one of the big hits
i doubt he tore up the tournament charts, but i didn't feel like my character was actively sabotaging me, like when i was playing ganondorf
actually, ditching ike and replacing him with a sworded ganondorf could work
I expect there will be only minor changes to him - like with brawl, Sakurai realizes that people don't want him to be just a falcon clone, but he also has to keep in mind people who like that moveset anyway
as far as ungodly muscle is concerned, Ike was leagues ahead
at least of couple of not-laggy moves to use in between the big hits, the kick ass neutral a combo particularly, plus the huge attack range, which significantly upped the odds of actually catching someone with one of the big hits
i doubt he tore up the tournament charts, but i didn't feel like my character was actively sabotaging me, like when i was playing ganondorf
actually, ditching ike and replacing him with a sworded ganondorf could work
maybe they could do that
Yeah, Ike was kind of silly. Side+B>neutral a combo, win all the fights.
Ganon seems better reserved for a stage boss and Ganondorf's final smash.
Playing as him could be cool but having six Zelda characters would be a bit absurd and I would much rather have The Dorf. Plus I really like his look from Twilight Princess so that they have been using that model is a bonus for me.
I expect there will be only minor changes to him - like with brawl, Sakurai realizes that people don't want him to be just a falcon clone, but he also has to keep in mind people who like that moveset anyway
Those people can still play captain Falcon. May they can add a new fzero pilot that us just a bigger slower clone
I expect there will be only minor changes to him - like with brawl, Sakurai realizes that people don't want him to be just a falcon clone, but he also has to keep in mind people who like that moveset anyway
Those people can still play captain Falcon. May they can add a new fzero pilot that us just a bigger slower clone
Giving his moveset to a captain falcon villain and getting his own moveset I think would be the ideal outcome, but it's also the most labor intensive - and to be honest I'd rather get a new character from advance wars or wonderful 101 or kid icarus than a cap falcon villain and new dorf moveset.
Circa melee, Ganondorf, while not excellent, at least had several viable attack options with trivial wind-ups, meaning your opponent had to play guessing games with when exactly they had to defend. In Brawl, I seem to recall him being a lot slower overall (and most other characters having significantly less commitment to their attacks, particularly the higher-tier ones), which rendered him worse by comparison.
Really what Ganondorf needs is effective projectiles and a few spammable, low-consequence attacks to fill in the void between all the crushy stuff. Something like...
Neutral B: The charged blast used by Agahnim. Can be charged for more power. Anyone can deflect it with an A-button move, which sends it beelining back at Ganondorf at increased speed and changes the projectile's owner. Ganondorf can then deflect it back with any of his A-button moves to the same effect. This continues until someone gets hit. Sometimes this move fires one of those bastard unreflectable shots that just explodes when someone tries to deflect it, though the audio and visual cues match it.
Side B: Ganondorf throws the double-ended halberd from his Ganon form, which flies out slowly and returns to him at max range. Can be charged for increased range, but can't be reused until the halberd returns to him.
Down B: Keese/Flaming Bats. Yet again, can be charged up, which produces a larger swarm. The bats appear one-by-one from the point where the attack originated, even if Ganondorf himself moves. The move can't be reused until the last usage finishes.
Up B: I dunno, something like spinning the halberd to recover.
Essentially, a lot of moves designed to mitigate Ganondorf's horrible movement speed by letting him own the projectile war. If you try to play keep-away with him, you'll get splatted.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Circa melee, Ganondorf, while not excellent, at least had several viable attack options with trivial wind-ups, meaning your opponent had to play guessing games with when exactly they had to defend. In Brawl, I seem to recall him being a lot slower overall (and most other characters having significantly less commitment to their attacks, particularly the higher-tier ones), which rendered him worse by comparison.
Really what Ganondorf needs is effective projectiles and a few spammable, low-consequence attacks to fill in the void between all the crushy stuff. Something like...
Neutral B: The charged blast used by Agahnim. Can be charged for more power. Anyone can deflect it with an A-button move, which sends it beelining back at Ganondorf at increased speed and changes the projectile's owner. Ganondorf can then deflect it back with any of his A-button moves to the same effect. This continues until someone gets hit. Sometimes this move fires one of those bastard unreflectable shots that just explodes when someone tries to deflect it, though the audio and visual cues match it.
Side B: Ganondorf throws the double-ended halberd from his Ganon form, which flies out slowly and returns to him at max range. Can be charged for increased range, but can't be reused until the halberd returns to him.
Down B: Keese/Flaming Bats. Yet again, can be charged up, which produces a larger swarm. The bats appear one-by-one from the point where the attack originated, even if Ganondorf himself moves. The move can't be reused until the last usage finishes.
Up B: I dunno, something like spinning the halberd to recover.
Essentially, a lot of moves designed to mitigate Ganondorf's horrible movement speed by letting him own the projectile war. If you try to play keep-away with him, you'll get splatted.
I think the neutral B is a great idea (I mean, in general - could be on a different button if you really want :P). You already have him doing that move in OoT quite a bit, so I mean, it's not even just "Agahnim's attack" (but obviously it's easy to understand as that :P). It also gives him some interesting gameplay that's different from Cpt. Falcon or even anyone else.
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It was often an exercise in frustration. The worst part is that I could feel particular gaps where, if he were tweaked, he would be better.
They really came out a lot against my brother's Ike.
Also, it is disingenuous as fuck to compare villains to women in terms of a diverse cast.
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i could deal with him being a captain falcon clone when he was a pretty good captain falcon clone
after brawl it obvious they need to fix literally everything
make him the exact opposite of what he is now
make him super light
give him a sword
give him multiple jumps
make him a metaknight clone
Ganondorf might be my favorite Nintendo character, and I'll always play him when I can
But when I wanted to win I brought out Ness, and that says a few things
And give him a deflectable projectile.
And a reflection move.
Up B his Wizard spin taunt but now it carries him upward and he can fly for a bit. He can attack while flying but drops immediately.
Neutral B Sword slash. Reflect move. Does a little damage. very fast.
Side B Magic orb. Chargeable. In the air it will fire at a downward angle. While its on the screen it can be deflected with any attack but if you use side B to do so itll gain explosive properties.
Down B Triforce of power. Works like Wiifit trainers deep breathing but ups his speed and weight instead of attack power.
His regular attacks should just be slow but beefy sword strikes and kicks but with super armor on most of them so faster characters cant curb stomp him
Up B: Fell Flight: think Pit's old recovery
Neutral B: Black Hole: a chargeable projectile. A tap fires a quick sphere. Charging creates a large ball that shatters into a bunch of projectiles with weak homing.
Down B: Warlock Punch: on the ground, same move it is now. In the air, a diving punch that creates a ahockwave when he hits the ground.
Side B: Flame Choke: because Flame Choke.
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Nobody is saying people didnt use him.
We just want him to have a unique moveset
I could see how he would be lacking in a two player fight as well but in a four person free-for-all he becomes a sort of dreaded adversary.
They could be female villains too, I honestly don't care. You're making it sound like I was saying a sexist thing when all I was really saying is that the game could use more of both. Then again, throwing in someone like Daisy just for the sake of diversity is a waste of a character slot too.
That said, you could redo his specials and all of his ground attacks short of jab and up-smash at no great loss. His aerial game pre-Brawl was glorious, though, and I'd really hate to lose it.
This was me as well, I choose him because people were saying he was a bad fighter, and I wanted to play as an underdog. It was a pretty big change from playing as Fox for the previous games, but meteor smashing people to death was so good.
at least of couple of not-laggy moves to use in between the big hits, the kick ass neutral a combo particularly, plus the huge attack range, which significantly upped the odds of actually catching someone with one of the big hits
i doubt he tore up the tournament charts, but i didn't feel like my character was actively sabotaging me, like when i was playing ganondorf
actually, ditching ike and replacing him with a sworded ganondorf could work
maybe they could do that
Yeah, Ike was kind of silly. Side+B>neutral a combo, win all the fights.
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remove ganondorf, put in pig ganon
Edit: Haha, bad timing on my part.
Playing as him could be cool but having six Zelda characters would be a bit absurd and I would much rather have The Dorf. Plus I really like his look from Twilight Princess so that they have been using that model is a bonus for me.
Those people can still play captain Falcon. May they can add a new fzero pilot that us just a bigger slower clone
I'd like for there to be a greater magic focus in his attacks, but I still want him to use his hands. Magic and pugilism; that sounds just fine.
Gotta cut costs somewhere.
Giving his moveset to a captain falcon villain and getting his own moveset I think would be the ideal outcome, but it's also the most labor intensive - and to be honest I'd rather get a new character from advance wars or wonderful 101 or kid icarus than a cap falcon villain and new dorf moveset.
Really what Ganondorf needs is effective projectiles and a few spammable, low-consequence attacks to fill in the void between all the crushy stuff. Something like...
Neutral B: The charged blast used by Agahnim. Can be charged for more power. Anyone can deflect it with an A-button move, which sends it beelining back at Ganondorf at increased speed and changes the projectile's owner. Ganondorf can then deflect it back with any of his A-button moves to the same effect. This continues until someone gets hit. Sometimes this move fires one of those bastard unreflectable shots that just explodes when someone tries to deflect it, though the audio and visual cues match it.
Side B: Ganondorf throws the double-ended halberd from his Ganon form, which flies out slowly and returns to him at max range. Can be charged for increased range, but can't be reused until the halberd returns to him.
Down B: Keese/Flaming Bats. Yet again, can be charged up, which produces a larger swarm. The bats appear one-by-one from the point where the attack originated, even if Ganondorf himself moves. The move can't be reused until the last usage finishes.
Up B: I dunno, something like spinning the halberd to recover.
Essentially, a lot of moves designed to mitigate Ganondorf's horrible movement speed by letting him own the projectile war. If you try to play keep-away with him, you'll get splatted.
I think the neutral B is a great idea (I mean, in general - could be on a different button if you really want :P). You already have him doing that move in OoT quite a bit, so I mean, it's not even just "Agahnim's attack" (but obviously it's easy to understand as that :P). It also gives him some interesting gameplay that's different from Cpt. Falcon or even anyone else.
I would love to see the flame bats too
There's also a bunch of new pics in the album.
http://endless-agb.minus.com/mbopyab0NE2JXz
He's so majestic.