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Diversity lounges coming to PAX?
stebuu
Crabs are fucking crazy, and I hate horsesRegistered User regular
Crabs are fucking crazy, and I hate horsesRegistered User regular
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Universities for example often have safe spaces for LGBTI, women, people of colour, victims of violence, ect. These aren't declarations that the campus is unsafe, but providing an area where people can go to and be guaranteed a safe environment and to be listened to.
Hell, I have a little sign on my office door that declares my office a safe space. Because I want people to know that walking in my door is a no judgement area. After I put up my sign, 3 more offices in my hallway added ones as well. This diversity lounge has great potential as a forum of ideas, discourse, and resources. Not only for attendees, but for the PAX community as a whole. Think of all the things Penny Arcade will learn after just one PAX with this diversity lounge! This is huge opportunity to improving PAX for everyone.
I get it, it's really popular right now to ride the internet hate train on PA. But PAX is so much more than Penny Arcade. It really is. With hundreds of enforcers, exhibitors, speakers and an amazing community of attendees, it's also up to us to make PAX what we want it to be.
PAX isn't perfect, but god damn it guys, they are trying.
a) Willfully misinterpreting this just for the sake of being outraged
b) Being a gigantic idiot
It's pretty clear that this is not some holding pen where all the non (white cishet males) get put, it's a space for people to *know* they can be safe from harassment (more on this in a sec) AND to educate people about these issues and why they're important. Which is a fundamental step in changing the attitudes of culture as a whole.
There is functionally no way for them to guarnatee no one will be a dick to you at PAX. It cannot be done. There are already formal rules to deal with that sort of thing but the calls to make all of PAX a safe space are completely ridiculous. Okay, and we'll just pass gay marriage in all 50 states overnight, right?
Of course not. Don't be silly. These things take a lot of time and a lot of work to fight against, and the proven first step is making spaces where diverse voices can be heard in a Designated. Area. For. This. Purpose. From there you expand outwards and fix the overarching issues but come the fuck on people, how naive do you have to be to think PA can just snap their fingers overnight and banish all assholes forever and all time?
Does it need work? Sure. No first step will be perfect. But this level of backlash and vitriol is not only unhelpful, it's going to result in other companies looking at this situation and saying "shit, why bother, can't please those gamer types anyway" and never even making an effort.
If you want change, you start small. People and culture are slow to change. We didn't get from the Stonewall riots to repealing DOMA in a day, or even in a decade.
1) A recurring SJ (social justice) conversation issue wherein the loudest voices are often the snarkiest. This is not exclusive to social justice topics- we see it in politics, as well, and elsewhere.
So many of the things I see on Twitter are smug satisfaction that this is a bad idea, that PA can't do things right, that this is self-serving, that the only way to fix PAX is to burn it down, etc.- and this tends to drown out the constructive conversation with actual feedback and tossing around ideas.
2) A lot of the criticism and some of the praise seems focused around this as a declaration of a "safe space"- and it is, but what seems MORE important to me is the quietly declared function of this space as a learning/educating tool. I also inferred from the document that PA intends to keep other inclusive programming/booths throughout the main space as well, so I seem to envision this almost functioning as an "info booth" for other resources of this nature throughout the con, as well.
And while I was typing, 3clipse nicely summed it up, so QFT:
We frequently hear of people being shy, reluctant, or outright scared to discuss such topics in public or with strangers when they don't know how the topic will be received. This provides a place where that ambiguity goes away and from there will expand outward as people meet each other and begin to talk about it across the show.
Heck, there was feedback after last Prime that a space like this was needed, from both attendees and exhibitors who focus on diversity. So they create the space and are being vilified for it?
Would people rather have PA do like much of the rest of the general populace and just put on blinders, plug their ears, and shove their heads in the sand and pretend these issues don't exist and aren't important to their community and fan base?
My only hope is that they recognize the needs and rights of those with celtic ancestry to drink whiskey in public (kidding)
Over the years, it's gotten harder and harder to get PAX tickets, between server issues, tickets going up during usual office work times and tickets just selling out within minutes. This seems to be the final nail in the coffin, killing off my interest. I'm sure this won't matter to Khoo or anyone else in PA management, there are thousands who would love to take my place, but regardless. I came to PAX for the videogames, as I'm sure most people did, and just rolled my eyes at the more Social Justice-related panels. But now, there's a specific space to spread 'diversity training'? I know I could just 'roll my eyes' at that, too, but there's a point where enough is enough.
I know that there's a lot of people who feel like I do, but voice their opinions in the most angry and divisive manner possible, angry and shouting, and I try not to be that person. I'm not angry, just a tad sad that enough has changed with PAX to finally push me away.
At the same time, there are many who feel opposite as I do on topics like this, and instead of respecting my opinions, they try to discredit them, insult me, and generally DON'T spread that 'society of accepting' viewpoint that they so preach. But the same could be said for any widely held opinion on the internet; the loudest and most angry voice is often the 'voice' for a viewpoint and topic.
I want to preface what I'm about to say with a thank you for expressing your opinion without getting angry.
I hope you'll read what I say and think about it.
"I seem to be in the minority," "I am a straight, white, male,"
Actually, you're not. You're the majority. Everything is FOR you. Games are made for and marketed for you. The reason social justice is becoming so prominent, is because everyone else who isn't a white straight male has been marginalized in the gaming community. Everyone is friendly to you sure. but not everyone is friendly to the rest of us.
I've never once felt that PAX was even slightly 'unsafe', and I've been going for seven years.
I've been going to PAX since 2004, and I've been sexually harassed at PAX. Just because YOU feel safe, doesn't mean others are.
"This is a growing issue that I, personally, feel has no place in videogames, and especially not at a videogame convention."
Why?
I envy your life. I honestly truly do. You've likely never been called a fat slobbering whore who should be making men "sammichs" for playing games online. I have. But even I have it easy compared people of colour, or LGBT people who really never see themselves in videogames at all.
Why should we just sit back and accept that the gamemakers and the general gaming population doesn't give a rats ass about us? Why shouldn't we bring to light how awful it can be?
All we want to do is play games and be treated the way you are.
This is why we need safe spaces, and social justice panels.
You see everything is hunky dory and you just plain don't care that it's shitty for the rest of us.
He hasn't been affected by the abuse, harassment and name calling. He hasn't had to deal with female avatars that are clad in bikini armor game after game for penis appeal. He doesn't see how it is part of the gaming community and culture discussion.
To those who feel that way, I might suggest that dropping by the Diversity Lounge and talking to those fellow gamers affected by these issues, might prove enlightening. Will some people use it as a soapbox? Sure, but for every person who is over the top on an issue there are a plethora of others who aren't.
And please, don't jump to conclusions that I have it 'so' easy. I'm sorry that a few people have treated you poorly, for males in general, I apologize. When I first started using Xbox Live (that is, voice chat over the internet), I quickly came to realize how cruel some people are. I played so many videogames because I didn't like being around a lot of people, I have a very heavy stutter at times, specifically when I'm agitated, or confronted. I was quick to realize that that made me 'different' from a lot of people chatting in-game, and there were others who insulted me for it, mocked me for it, simply because I have trouble speaking. So please, don't assuming that I have it extremely easy, and have no idea where you're coming from.
However, at PAX, even when I spoke up during panel Q&A sessions, with random people waiting in line, anything, I was not insulted or made fun of. I liked it, I felt like I could finally talk to people without having to avoid using certain 'sounds' that would cause my stutter to kick into high gear.
Now, granted, I know that a stutter is different, but it's still something that separates me from what is overall considered the 'norm', and I've been insulted for it.
And, personal-taste-wise, a lot of game are not 'made and marketed' for me. I usually dislike most of these AAA gaming 'experiences' that so many people seem to love, and seem to be designed around.
It's easy to not see who's being excluded when you're on the inside.
"I don't think there was anything getting in the way of that subdemographic enjoying PAX"
All of these social justice panels didn't tip you off? This comes back to the point that people in marginalized groups don't feel like they are part of the mainstream. They aren't included or thought of in 99% of game development or marketing.
Everything is already for you. We just want it to be for us too.
"and by these lounges being here, it feels to me that by not treating these people better than I treat an average human being, that I'm 'wrong', and in need of 'training'."
Well, why don't you go to the lounge, and listen to what their issues actually are. People are actively saying that they aren't being treated the same.
I get that this makes you uncomfortable, but change is uncomfortable.
These are very real issues facing the gaming industry as a whole, and something that a lot of people, even those not being marginalized, want to see improved. Just look at the recent Mighty No 9 controversy if you want a recent example of a minority in video games being oppressed, and that was just for a community manager position.
Mike's PR problems may have spurred this, but it is nontheless an important thing to move forward with in video games, regardless of why it was ideated.
In addition, I'm curious as to whether you dislike panels on tabletop gaming, cosplay, things that are not strictly video game-related.
THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THESE LOUNGES!
Believe me, I've been following the Mighty No. 9 incident, being one of the backers. Most people that disagree with her position have to do with how she's been running her job. Nobody cares that she's a woman. Just like nobody cared that the music designer is a woman. What people care about is that we paid for, as their Kickstarter stated, "Japanese veterans of the videogame industry" working on the game. Other than a few mishaps that Dina's had, like locking her twitter, then erasing every troubling tweet she ever made, and avoiding answering a lot of people's questions, I have no issue with her. She seems friendly enough, she just seems in over her head.
No, and if that's what you took from my post, you're being deliberately obtuse. The point is to have a space where you can go and learn about these issues, which by your own admission you are completely ignorant about.
And by the way, lots of people who are not you *have* gotten in the way of women/people of color/LGBTQ folks enjoying PAX by directly harassing them. Hell, SmallLady gave examples of it happening to her just up the page. It happens every year to a lot of people. It just is the case that straight white men like yourself and myself aren't really harassed.
Now, if you're trying to say that harassment/exclusion never happens and that people are making it up, that's an entirely separate discussion and you're actually part of the problem. But I'm operating under the assumption that you are not a bigot.
edit: To add my own experience, one PAX I had to help remove someone who was badly harassing a woman because he wanted physical intimacy from her and she didn't want to give it.
In addition, people who do treat everyone truly equal are doing a good thing. That doesn't mean that there does not exist people who do not do that.
Separately from that, nobody is forcing anyone to be "trained". If one does not want to take advantage of these spaces, one may choose to not do so, just like any other part of PAX.
You acknowledge how awful you know others can be in online gaming. Now add in how the game industry largely ignores diverse groups and demeans/stereotypes characters (male and female). Also add in the horror stories of women and other marginalized people being harassed and assaulted at other shows.
That's what this is about. Trying to change the behavior and thinking of those people. It's confusing to me how you can acknowledge the cruelty of some gamers but not see how thus affects gaming. It's about trying to get those people and the industry to treat everyone the same.
To begin with, I'd like to second SmallLady's appreciation of how you've presented your viewpoints. I think it's really important that people are able to discuss things like this and it's unfortunately is too rare of an occurrence these days.
I was curious by your use of the term "reeducation" in your post, in what seemed to be a denigrating manner. It implies to me that you think that you already know about being female, or gay, or transgendered, etc. and simply don't need to be bothered to learn more. I'm female, but I'm not going to assume I know jack about about the problems of other marginalized groups. In particular, while I have friends with various (and varied) sexual orientations, I don't think that any are transgendered. But it's an issue that's coming up more and more lately, so I am curious to know more, not the least of all so that I don't unintentionally offend. I suppose the point is that I don't understand not wanting to be able to be polite to everyone and contribute towards society being inclusive. No one's said that these measure are meant solely for the "reeducation" of the straight white guys and yet you seem to have interpreted it as such.
I was also interested in your description of being bullied in online gaming when you stuttered. It doesn't seem too hard to make the leap from knowing what it's like to be harassed for that to having some understanding of being harassed because of your gender or sexual orientation. The difference is that I don't think there are many people who would openly accept bullying someone for a stutter as being acceptable, but harassing and objectifying women and other groups is all too often accepted public behavior. I'm not sure why else some jerk at PAX East earlier this year would have felt entitled to ask a group of Lara Croft cosplayers, some of whom were quite young, how they felt about being somewhere where none of the men present could satisfy them in bed. You know there are problems in gaming, you've experienced some of them yourself. Wouldn't it all be even more awesome if we could fix them?
I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like there is a nuanced discussion to be had here. I don't think twitter is the appropriate place to have it, as it leads to necessarily curt responses and encourages snark, and a lot of the snark is non-constructive (and some of it is frankly offensive, particularly anything comparing this to any aspect of the holocaust, or ghettos. Because we are talking about a video game convention. Perspective.).
My thoughts. On the one hand:
1. Providing exposure to games, products, and organizations that aim to improve representation and diversity is a good thing.
2. I'm glad to see the PAX people are making an effort to make amends for what has frankly been some pretty shitty behaviour in the past.
3. Having a separate diversity lounge, while not ideal (ideally that diversity would be represented on the show floor itself), is a sort of baby step in the right direction, and would give space to organizations that wouldn't be appropriate for the show floor but should be represented at PAX.
On the other, I am hesitant because:
1. I find it a little duplicitous that they require people "promoting products and services" to also have a booth in the Expo Hall, when a game company like The Fullbright Company specifically said they wouldn't feel comfortable showing Gone Home there. Why would PAX require that? They don't require groups promoting their products and services in Bandland to have booths on the Expo Floor. I'm guessing this will mean that very small indie developers will be shit out of luck finding a home in this "Diversity Lounge," since they'd have to pay the large amount of money necessary to get an Expo Floor spot too. Since small indie developers (and often individuals) with very small budgets are the ones really pushing the envelope on diversity in gaming, this seems like a backwards move.
2. The very concept of a "Safe Space" is subject to VERY mixed feelings among women and the LGBT community, not just at PAX, but in general, because
A. it necessarily singles out individuals for harassment if the space is in a hostile environment and individuals are seen entering/leaving the space;
B. it does imply that areas outside the Safe Space are less safe (and that somehow this is OK);
C. a safe space is only as safe as the people in the space make it. While the document says Enforcers in the space will have undergone Safe Zone training, if this is an "open" area, anybody can go inside. This is a typical problem with Safe Spaces. If a violator or unsafe person enters them, or worse, has power within them (for example an Enforcer who undergoes Safe Zone training but disregards it), the Safe Zone is basically useless.
These three things are problems that all Safe Spaces have, so they're not specifically PAX's fault, but they're definitely problems to be aware of.
Safe Spaces are most often implemented in places where individuals are inherently disadvantaged, like schools and universities, where youth have reduced agency, and within companies, where individuals can have reduced agency due to work hierarchies. It's unclear why this is the case at PAX. Attendees should have all the agency they're normally afforded. The document does not make it clear how violations of the "Safe Space" tenants will be handled by Enforcers OR the Convention differently than normal harassment. The PAX Harassment policy already outlines the procedures for harassment, which boil down to filling out an incident form, and if the incident is deemed harassment, the violator will get kicked out/banned from PAX, and be reported to the police, if it's appropriate. If the Harassment policy were actually enforced, it's unclear why ALL of PAX wouldn't be a safe space.
3. In regards to the "non judgemental learning" mentioned toward the end of the documents, how is this going to happen? Will organizations/developers be responsible for "educating" their visitors? That's putting the onus on the people already being disadvantaged, some of whom already spend a lot of time dealing with stupid questions from people and who probably do not want to have to "educate" just to show their game (since in many cases the game is supposed to be doing the educating). Is PAX going to provide educators? Because Safe Zone training doesn't prepare you to do that sort of education. Panels on these sorts of subjects have existed at previous PAXes, but the people who most need the education rarely attend such panels. It's unclear how this will work, and with how hectic PAX is, I'm not convinced it will. It's not really a prime environment for active education.
4. None of any of this matters if certain PAX figureheads/leaders make any statements that encourage people to harass/belittle others at PAX.
---
Hopefully this will be a good thing. I'm hesitant, and given past issues with PAX/PA, I don't know whether I should be optimistic.
I will give this idea the benefit of the doubt, but I do not blame people who don't. Once bitten, twice shy. Or more accurately, many times bitten, forever shy.
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I'm white male, and my experience at PAX has always been a positive one. However I've had many friends who are LGBT, and have had some admittedly second hand experience with the shit they go through just for existing in gaming space. That's just the most experience though; I've seen almost everyone I know who isn't easily identifiable as white male over voice chat get pestered and harassed online. Not just little quips and then dropped, but continuous where others have had to step in. I don't want to prattle on anymore about personal experience though. I think I may have already become "that guy"...anyhow...
Discussion is a good thing, and this sounds like a welcoming way for all groups to partake in and learn from the discussion.
I never finish anyth
i'd like to really know more about this part. i know a lot of harassment and totally inappropriate shit happens at PAX. what i don't see are concrete numbers about whether people are going unpunished for it.
i have...reliable sources...who have indicated that PA has handed out lifetime bans to people for being shitheels. that includes certain Enforcers who were being really really dumb. is this not the case?
i also recognize that it's very hard to report harassment and assault, for various reasons.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
seems like you answered your own question there
no, i didn't. i'm asking for either hard numbers or other documented evidence that enforcement isn't happening.
facts are important.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Just like the creation of "safe spaces" does not automatically mean the rest of PAX/a campus/a workplace are all dangerous post-apocalyptic wastelands, recognition of issues surrounding minority or marginalized demographics does not automatically mean everyone else is poo.
I appreciate your point that it's a leaked doc and may very well be still in revision stages- I think this has slipped by unnoticed for many. That being said, I'm not sure I understand why "Here is A1, new subset of A" regularly translates into "the rest of A is bad" for some people. This isn't just directed at you- it's a sentiment I've seen echoed both with this issue and others fairly recently. Any thoughts about why that is? Obviously you can really only speak to your own feelings on the matter, but I'd also welcome anyone else's input.
I'm curious about this too, though I doubt we'll ever see actual numbers, for reasons of litigation and privacy.
To clarify my point, though: how is the Safe Space being created MORE safe than the rest of PAX? I'm not implying that they're not enforcing the harassment policy, because I have no data on that point. But what is it about this place that is going to make it Safer? Just that it aims to concentrate all the diverse, accepting people in one room?
I understand the "Promote Diversity by giving a platform to organizations and developers who encourage diversity in gaming" goal. It seems obvious how to do that. But I'm unclear about how the "establish a Safe Space for diversity" goal actually happens, beyond what is supposed to already be happening (zero tolerance for harassment).
Love Pokemon? Going to PAX Prime/East/Aus/South? Challenge the PAX Pokemon League!!!
There's what - 10k+ People in there PER DAY? How many enforcers are there? Maybe 100? There's also the thought of social stigma that comes with reporting or talking about being harassed. There's such a crush of people at PAX that it becomes impossible for the minimal staff to play policeman when they can't see 90% of people's bodies.
But I think the comparison to the Indie Megabooth is an apt one. If it's really going to be an effort to build awareness and education about issues of diversity in gaming, grouping everything in the same, geographic location is a good one. It increases the overall floor presence, and gives folks an easy segue into other issues that they might not have even considered if they'd just gone to one of the other, one-off panels of previous years. I also think they made a great decision in not attempting to guide content, and instead leaving that to the companies participating in the booths. Check your programs, there have been panels and booths on various social issues for years. If this gets those same organizations lots more exposure, I'd consider that a success in itself.
Yeah, so at any given time, you have roughly 1 enforcer for every 100 people, which makes any sort of observational enforcement downright impossible.
Google safe zone; it's pretty much a standard deal used by a number of organizations.
'What is a SafeZone?
A SafeZone is a place where all people feel welcome and safe. It may be a room, a car, or an entire college campus. The Gay Alliance SafeZone program aims to increase the awareness, knowledge, and skills for individuals while addressing the challenges that exist when one wants to advocate for their LGBTQ peers, family members, friends and co-workers.'
I think a lot of people with an agenda are running with this as a way to imply that somehow the rest of PAX is unsafe, which is shenanigans.
This is one of the reasons why I personally think this lounge is a good idea. Obviously everyone wants all of PAX to be a safe area, and they're trying to make it so, but it's not always possible to ensure or enforce that. I assume that this diversity lounge would be more... "protected"? Like, it's easier to check out that everyone feels safe in a smaller area.
The problem with that is the "implied" idea that the rest of PAX is unsafe since this area exists and that respect is enforced "more" over there. Still, I believe it's a step in the right direction. This lounge isn't the goal, the end of harassment and discrimination, but it might be the start of something bigger, something good.