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Insane in the Ukraine, OR, Not So Chicken Kiev?

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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    What was it we were talking about earlier? Oh yeah, Sochi is a ghost town

    Who needs the Olympics for revenue when you can just steal Ukraine?

    The Sochi Olympics were in no way a source of income for Russia. It was just an excuse for a massive embezzlement of state funds.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Will anyplace ever really put sanctions on Russia? Will European countries stop buying oil from them, maybe buy from haha the USA instead? Is that a thing that would feasibly happen?

    It's natural gas they need, and no because nobody else has the infrastructure to supply what Europe needs, including us.

    Oh, I didn't know that. So, aside from a Russia/Nato war, which will not happen, will anything at all happen?

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Even Sochi's Formula 1 track is boring, gray, and lifeless.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Will anyplace ever really put sanctions on Russia? Will European countries stop buying oil from them, maybe buy from haha the USA instead? Is that a thing that would feasibly happen?

    It's natural gas they need, and no because nobody else has the infrastructure to supply what Europe needs, including us.

    Oh, I didn't know that. So, aside from a Russia/Nato war, which will not happen, will anything at all happen?

    There are pretty real sanctions right now, though it would take Germany to make them attitude changing (which isn't in Germany's best interest right now, unfortunately for Ukraine). There are pipelines in place from Turkey and the Nordic countries that can pick up some of the pace for European needs, but when it comes down to it if the game of fuel chicken becomes a think Russia will win short term but lose (hugely) long term as the infrastructure for alternative heating sources are produced in western Europe.

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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Remember that while Europe needs Russian gas, Russia needs Europe's money just as badly

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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Remember that while Europe needs Russian gas, Russia needs Europe's money just as badly

    Russia needs it way more. At absolute worst Europe faces recession. An economic war would plunge Russia into a full on depression and likely rebellion. The problem with that is they're still a nuclear power and no one wants to see what a truly desperate Putin might do.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
    Yeah, there is always the threat of nuclear arms being used both against rebels in a anti-Putin/admin rebellion or against Western nations. I don't know if it would come down to that in actuality, but it's a terrible specter.

    I think that wealthy and powerful Russian businessmen will be able to push on people below Putin and get him out of office if he makes things bad enough for them.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    I have read at least one expert already floating the idea that Putin isn't going to be able to finish his term. The Russian oligarchy will take a massive dump on him.

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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Remember that while Europe needs Russian gas, Russia needs Europe's money just as badly

    Russia needs it way more. At absolute worst Europe faces recession. An economic war would plunge Russia into a full on depression and likely rebellion. The problem with that is they're still a nuclear power and no one wants to see what a truly desperate Putin might do.

    Putin is no more a maniac than he is a strategic mastermind. He's an ordinary posturing strongman who just happens to have an unusually powerful country to play at brinkmanship with. He wouldn't resort to nuclear force any more than he would resort to actual war if faced with robust Western opposition.

    The most likely outcome of a trade war would be Putin getting kicked out of office by popular dissent over having no food and heat in winter.

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    LuvTheMonkeyLuvTheMonkey High Sierra Serenade Registered User regular
    The sanctions already in place are having some effect - Rosneft has asked for $42 billion in aid from the government.

    Molten variables hiss and roar. On my mind-forge, I hammer them into the greatsword Epistemology. Many are my foes this night.
    STEAM | GW2: Thalys
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Wonder what Turkey are going to do about this

    they can't be happy with Russia just rolling into the Crimea in such a blatant, if un-admitted manner

    they signed a trade deal with Russia pretty recently so I guess they aren't super pissed

    damn it Turkey where's that belligerence when we need it

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    LuvTheMonkeyLuvTheMonkey High Sierra Serenade Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Wonder what Turkey are going to do about this

    they can't be happy with Russia just rolling into the Crimea in such a blatant, if un-admitted manner

    they signed a trade deal with Russia pretty recently so I guess they aren't super pissed

    damn it Turkey where's that belligerence when we need it

    In Constantinople.

    Molten variables hiss and roar. On my mind-forge, I hammer them into the greatsword Epistemology. Many are my foes this night.
    STEAM | GW2: Thalys
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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    You mean Istanbul.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Or Troy.

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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    umm excuse me you mean Byzantium??

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    KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Code fondler Helping the 1% get richerRegistered User regular
    The UK is going to propose cutting Russia off from using SWIFT.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-russia-faces-swift-financial-transaction-systems-ban-1463207

    That would leave a mark.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    The UK is going to propose cutting Russia off from using SWIFT.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-russia-faces-swift-financial-transaction-systems-ban-1463207

    That would leave a mark.

    Woah

    that is a big deal

    There are lots of institutions and companies who pay in SWIFT as a standard course of business and have no real alternative to doing so set up. And it's a European system, so the EU would basically be saying "your companies and our companies will, for the time being, have to put most payments on hold."

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    PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Bay Area, CARegistered User regular
    I would have to imagine that wouldn't go over well with the western financial institutions expecting payments from Russia?

    Also this: "Namely the likelihood that large chunks of Russian international payments flows would move to much less well-monitored and measured financial channels and thus be beyond sanctions at any future point," he [Richard Reid, a research fellow for finance and regulation at the University of Dundee in Scotland] added.

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Oh hey, Putin's considering Kazakhstan's future next, in a talk with a youth forum in Russia:
    "Nazarbayev is a prudent leader, even the most prudent in the post-soviet space. He would never act against the will of his country’s people. He is very sensitive to the people’s anticipations. And everything that has been done owing to his managerial capabilities and political experience has served Kazakhstan’s interests.

    “He has done a unique thing. He created a state in a territory that had never had a state before. (...) From this perspective, he is a unique figure both in the post-Soviet space and in Kazakhstan.

    Kinda has some implications for a post-Nazarbayev country...

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    Wha-

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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Does the poll also reveal that 27% of those aged 18-24 don't know what ISIS is?

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Does the poll also reveal that 27% of those aged 18-24 don't know what ISIS is?

    They're pretty sure it's that cartoon Archer.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Nah, male mena youth living in various projects having a positive view on those rad ISIS dudes is pretty common. But that making up for 27% of the age group population I'll attribute to the russian information source...

    Panda4You on
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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Does the poll also reveal that 27% of those aged 18-24 don't know what ISIS is?

    It's a '70s TV show about an archaeologist who finds a magic medallion that gives her super powers. DC owns the rights and in fact used the character in comics!

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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    isis-egyptian-goddess-of-magic-and-life-HA63_l.jpg

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    seriously, like how does someone look at a group who fucking cuts dudes heads off and says "YEAH THOSE GUYS ARE RAD"

    much less ONE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Angry, young, marginalized groups.

    Perhaps with strong religious views?

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Putin 'urges talks on east Ukraine' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29003116

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    It's not always disadvantaged groups. Many people who travel from Europe to fight in Syria and Iraq are actually rather well-educated. Radical Islamist groups in countries like Germany also have a higher proportion of converts. The most prominent figure of the Salafist scene in Germany converted from Lutheranism to Islam when he was 22.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I recently read an article in which an Iraqi leader called for assistance against IS from Western European countries since their citizens are so prominent in the IS movement and presumably also contribute to their funding.

    I was a bit reminded of groups like the Khmer Rouge whose members were often educated in the West and also used these privileged ties to exert power in what was their home country.

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Interesting, but over the last decade hasn't there been a pretty large anti-Muslim / Islamic sentiment among French citizens?

    I'm genuinely asking because I'm pretty uninformed but I remember some hoopla about a law getting passed or proposed prohibiting the headgear in public ?

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Angry, young, marginalized groups.

    Perhaps with strong religious views?

    And at least a few percent of that will be people screwing with the pollsters and so on, even before taking into account that that age group's grasp of the nuances and details of geopolitics isn't exactly stellar.

    But yeah, those coupled with some nasty nasty attitudes towards various populations in France the last several years - I can easily believe that kind of polarized attitude showing up.
    Interesting, but over the last decade hasn't there been a pretty large anti-Muslim / Islamic sentiment among French citizens?

    I'm genuinely asking because I'm pretty uninformed but I remember some hoopla about a law getting passed or proposed prohibiting the headgear in public ?

    I imagine laws like that don't exactly thrill the people they're aimed at.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Yes, there has been, but the exact extent is difficult to gauge. You might have heard that the National Front, which has in the past campaigned on "anti-Islamism" platforms, won 23 out of 74 French seats in the European Parliament. Yet they only hold two seats out of 577 in the National Assembly.

    The issue of anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe is muddled and the media have a role of acting as accelerants. But there's also Muslim politicians who campaign and try to gain publicity through their opposition towards radical Islamism. We have one person of Turkish descent in Austria's Green Party who calls almost every week for a ban on "jihadism", for German-language sermons in mosques and so on.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    My mom recently threw a woman she knew from her house because that person announced she would vote for a right-wing party in the next election because "she's fed up with Turks". What shocked my mother was that this person was from an immigrant group which had also been discriminated against until recent years (former Yugoslavians), when my mother pointed this out she simply answered that she feels "integrated".

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    Well I didn't think a tweet would ever actually make me feel super uncomfortable but I guess today's been full of surprises!

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    uh, don't look at the rest of that twitter account. it's vile.

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    I won't! Instead I'm gonna eat some Halloween candy that my parents got at the store today and take a nap. These tiny Hershey bars have little skellingtons and tombstones with bad puns on them, so I feel a little better now.

This discussion has been closed.