Hope annoyed me a lot more on my first playthrough of the game than he did on my second. The 2nd time through I actually thought about his age and what he went through, and his angst became much more tolerable and understandable. I definitely had no problem with the character. He definitely improves later in the game though.
FFXIII in unique in that it has one of the most badass female characters in gaming in addition to one of the absolute worst, whiny, "ohmygodIneedtopunchhiminthefaceSOHARD" male characters of all time. That character may turn out OK later. I never got to the part where it opens up.
I didn't think Fang or Vanille were that badass.
Lightning is literally just a Cloud clone, down to the model, and has the complete lack of personality to match.
Prishe or Ashe are 10x more badass.
Prishe isn't even the most badass woman in her game. President Salaheem is the real greatness of FFXI.
FFXIII in unique in that it has one of the most badass female characters in gaming in addition to one of the absolute worst, whiny, "ohmygodIneedtopunchhiminthefaceSOHARD" male characters of all time. That character may turn out OK later. I never got to the part where it opens up.
I didn't think Fang or Vanille were that badass.
Lightning is literally just a Cloud clone, down to the model, and has the complete lack of personality to match.
Prishe or Ashe are 10x more badass.
Prishe isn't even the most badass woman in her game. President Salaheem is the real greatness of FFXI.
... or Shantotto who was powerful enough to conquer Vana'Diel, but chose not to because being evil is boring.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
FFXIII in unique in that it has one of the most badass female characters in gaming in addition to one of the absolute worst, whiny, "ohmygodIneedtopunchhiminthefaceSOHARD" male characters of all time. That character may turn out OK later. I never got to the part where it opens up.
I didn't think Fang or Vanille were that badass.
Lightning is literally just a Cloud clone, down to the model, and has the complete lack of personality to match.
Prishe or Ashe are 10x more badass.
Prishe isn't even the most badass woman in her game. President Salaheem is the real greatness of FFXI.
... or Shantotto who was powerful enough to conquer Vana'Diel, but chose not to because being evil is boring.
I dunno man, neither of them drop kicked a God. Just saying.
FFXIII in unique in that it has one of the most badass female characters in gaming in addition to one of the absolute worst, whiny, "ohmygodIneedtopunchhiminthefaceSOHARD" male characters of all time. That character may turn out OK later. I never got to the part where it opens up.
I didn't think Fang or Vanille were that badass.
Lightning is literally just a Cloud clone, down to the model, and has the complete lack of personality to match.
Prishe or Ashe are 10x more badass.
Prishe isn't even the most badass woman in her game. President Salaheem is the real greatness of FFXI.
... or Shantotto who was powerful enough to conquer Vana'Diel, but chose not to because being evil is boring.
I dunno man, neither of them drop kicked a God. Just saying.
Shantotto probably did so at some point in-between Dissidia storylines, before she decided that the whole thing was dumb and portal'd on out of there.
I've never played it before, but seeing how I'm enjoying FFIV, I thought I'd give it a try.
You'll probably have a good time, going in with lowered expectations. The game gets good at the Calm Lands point, around 20-30 hours in. Up to that point, it's pretty linear. Like, corridors. But honestly, it's no worse than FFX, and we all love that. :P
Protip; don't invest too much effort in trying to get new weapons early on. It's doable, but you need to grind, and no one likes that. And use Libra on every monster you meet, it'll make the AI controlled characters make better decisions.
I've never played FFX.
The FF games I've played are I (on the NES, beaten it god knows how many times back in the day), IV (never finished it, but played through until the moon at friends' houses back as a teenager if I recall it correctly), VI (I've beaten it twice, it's one of my all-time favorite games), VII (my opinion on VII is very much in the minority...), and VIII (started it, was annoyed with the graphics and gameplay, have only played 30 minutes or so). Oh, and I played Final Fantasy Legend II (loved it back in the day) which I gather isn't really a Final Fantasy game, despite its title.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
In that case, I have no idea how you will receive XIII. The series has always steadily changed with each game, and you're leapfrogging 4 games and over 10 years from the last FF you played.
One thing is for sure: aside from moving a group of characters through a fantasy setting, XIII has very little in common with any you've played. That may be to your benefit?
In that case, I have no idea how you will receive XIII. The series has always steadily changed with each game, and you're leapfrogging 4 games and over 10 years from the last FF you played.
I pretty much intend to treat it as it's own thing, and judge it on its own merits.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I think my favorite part of the game was (spoilered cause why the heck not)
the culmination of Hope's anger at Snow on the edge of the building, where Snow makes his suicidal/heroic leap to save Hope.
It was a good combination of character moments that the game had been building toward for some time, and it was great to see the resolution play out.
Now if only they had both died. Would have improved the story greatly.
Aw, why? I actually really, really like Snow. He may be "playing the hero", but he is one of the most sincere characters in the series. I never questioned his motivations or that he was trying to do the best in the horrible situation he finds himself. Yeah, sometimes it leads to being in denial
like jumping the gun over their focus being to save Coccoon, even if in the end he is totally right.
He only really ever falls to despair once, and it is really early on. From there, he always thinks the best of all of his companions, and quickly accepts his responsibility once
Hope finally confronts him over his mother's death.
I'm also going to heavily disagree that Lightning is anything like Cloud, in terms of personality. Lightning is a ball of frustration and anger throughout much of XIII, which is very different than Cloud. Her infamous hitting Snow scene can easily be seen as her venting not only her frustrations with him, but also how powerless she feels about the whole situation. Lightning behaves very much like a kid who has been forced to be an adult before she was ready, especially with having to take care of her sister. I very much got the feeling that Lightning does not (even more than other people) like feeling like she does not have control, and an early part of XIII is about all of them being powerless and scared, and how they handle it. Lightning lashes out, Hope focuses on revenge, Snow tries to confront the problem, Vanille runs away, and Sazh rushes towards his family.
I think my favorite part of the game was (spoilered cause why the heck not)
the culmination of Hope's anger at Snow on the edge of the building, where Snow makes his suicidal/heroic leap to save Hope.
It was a good combination of character moments that the game had been building toward for some time, and it was great to see the resolution play out.
Now if only they had both died. Would have improved the story greatly.
Aw, why? I actually really, really like Snow. He may be "playing the hero", but he is one of the most sincere characters in the series. I never questioned his motivations or that he was trying to do the best in the horrible situation he finds himself. Yeah, sometimes it leads to being in denial
like jumping the gun over their focus being to save Coccoon, even if in the end he is totally right.
He only really ever falls to despair once, and it is really early on. From there, he always thinks the best of all of his companions, and quickly accepts his responsibility once
Hope finally confronts him over his mother's death.
I'm also going to heavily disagree that Lightning is anything like Cloud, in terms of personality. Lightning is a ball of frustration and anger throughout much of XIII, which is very different than Cloud. Her infamous hitting Snow scene can easily be seen as her venting not only her frustrations with him, but also how powerless she feels about the whole situation. Lightning behaves very much like a kid who has been forced to be an adult before she was ready, especially with having to take care of her sister. I very much got the feeling that Lightning does not (even more than other people) like feeling like she does not have control, and an early part of XIII is about all of them being powerless and scared, and how they handle it. Lightning lashes out, Hope focuses on revenge, Snow tries to confront the problem, Vanille runs away, and Sazh rushes towards his family.
Snow and Lightning cannibalise each other's growth, due to their shared connection with Serah. Lightning is all anger, and Snow is all denial, and neither meaningfully progresses to acceptance.
13 isn't really served at all by beginning in media res. When FF7 starts you're all "Oh right, these characters are terrorist scum, gotcha" which is an easy connection to make. FF13 is all "Ah right, these guys are trying to rescue their family from the Pulse fal'cie, which is a creature similar to the ones that govern Cocoon except it's from another world that Cocoon went to war with thousands of years ago, and these people are being exiled because they came into contact with it, and fal'cie sometimes create l'cie which are servants that have to complete a task, with a damned if you do, damned if you don't outcome". Which is actually easy enough to follow, but is presented in a garbage way for no real reason.
If we'd begun with Serah and Lightning arguing about the former's engagement to Snow, we'd have a much better framework for establishing character relationships.
XIII had such good music, and I absolutely adored the way that bits of the main themes kept recurring throughout tracks in all three titles.
+2
Options
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited September 2014
I feel that people who say they couldn't describe a character's personality at all just can't be bothered trying.
Also, I loathed Hope early on (probably still dislike him tbh), but they sort most of his niggling whining issues out over the course of the game so he improves in my eyes, at least.
The one character arc sequence which is supremely enjoyed was the one between Sazh and Vanille. I remember that shit being intense, and it also clearly justified the reason why Vanille was framing the narrative for some really, really weird reason. In all honesty I think FFXIII's character strengths came mostly from seeing the whole party split up into bite-sized chunks and watching them clash and interplay with each other.
The issue I have with Snow is that every aspect of his character his defined by his relationship with Serah.
I don't think that's true? He is very strongly defined by his relationship with Serah, which is fine, but he is much deeper than that, imo
I could be wrong. I didn't play any past getting to gran pulse. From what I remember though, he didn't have any personality outside of his relationship, excepting a few things like his protectiveness of other people which to me all seemed like simple extensions of aspects of his Serah relationship. He ended up feeling like a very hollow and boring character to me.
13 isn't really served at all by beginning in media res. When FF7 starts you're all "Oh right, these characters are terrorist scum, gotcha" which is an easy connection to make.
Woah woah woah. "Terrorist scum"?? A team that includes characters named "Wedge" and "Biggs" is fighting nameless troopers wearing helmets that block their faces. "Rebels fighting the evil Empire" was clearly the conclusion to draw at the start of the game. And I'd argue, it was totally correct, their methods were just a tad too dangerous at the start.
Hope and Wakka are perhaps the most human characters of their perspective games, with more realistic and human emotional responses to events.
Which makes some people upset in escapist entertainment that. people might react to deaths or racism or whatever realistically.
Yosuke is the exact same as those two for a Persona 4 comparison.
Yosuke might be a special case if the stuff about the writers wanting him to be in love with the MC is true.
I hate Wakka because he's a terrible person, not because he's a terrible character, so I agree with you there.
Hope though, I don't buy it. He did not feel authentic at all. I didn't dislike him because he was annoying (which he was), I disliked him because he wasn't a person.
Why is Wakka a terrible person? I don't recall anything particularly "bad" out of him, aside from being a racist and blinded by religious propaganda, with the former being a direct result of the latter.
Why is Wakka a terrible person? I don't recall anything particularly "bad" out of him, aside from being a racist and blinded by religious propaganda, with the former being a direct result of the latter.
He's kind of an asshole to Rikku.
They sort of make up but it was also not really warranted as Rikku is way too likeable and gentle for someone to fuck with.
This was also an issue in Valkyria Chronicles, and the personal bigotry that one character had was the result of an even worse justification.
I don't hate Wakka at all, he had stupid opinions that everyone had, then he got better. Also, he was worried about the whole "Summoners are disappearing" thing.
I'm playing the PS1 version of FFVI on my Vita, and FUCK YOU SABIN.
That asshole just appeared in a boss fight and I can't do his stupid blitz and he dies and the save point is kinda way behind.
I try left right left X (which I had to go to a FAQ and learn about) and it says "INPUT INCORRECT FUCK YOU DIE.
Posts
Now if only they had both died. Would have improved the story greatly.
What was the name of that evil chick with the glasses? She had a cool design, they didn't use her much.
But the music is nice, so I can relive most of what I like about XIII in Curtain Call!
Prishe isn't even the most badass woman in her game. President Salaheem is the real greatness of FFXI.
Agreed. The best part of 13 was the battle themes.
I also like the Gapra Whitewood music, so I was glad to see that in Curtain Call.
... or Shantotto who was powerful enough to conquer Vana'Diel, but chose not to because being evil is boring.
I dunno man, neither of them drop kicked a God. Just saying.
Shantotto probably did so at some point in-between Dissidia storylines, before she decided that the whole thing was dumb and portal'd on out of there.
I've never played FFX.
The FF games I've played are I (on the NES, beaten it god knows how many times back in the day), IV (never finished it, but played through until the moon at friends' houses back as a teenager if I recall it correctly), VI (I've beaten it twice, it's one of my all-time favorite games), VII (my opinion on VII is very much in the minority...), and VIII (started it, was annoyed with the graphics and gameplay, have only played 30 minutes or so). Oh, and I played Final Fantasy Legend II (loved it back in the day) which I gather isn't really a Final Fantasy game, despite its title.
I pretty much intend to treat it as it's own thing, and judge it on its own merits.
Aw, why? I actually really, really like Snow. He may be "playing the hero", but he is one of the most sincere characters in the series. I never questioned his motivations or that he was trying to do the best in the horrible situation he finds himself. Yeah, sometimes it leads to being in denial
I'm also going to heavily disagree that Lightning is anything like Cloud, in terms of personality. Lightning is a ball of frustration and anger throughout much of XIII, which is very different than Cloud. Her infamous hitting Snow scene can easily be seen as her venting not only her frustrations with him, but also how powerless she feels about the whole situation. Lightning behaves very much like a kid who has been forced to be an adult before she was ready, especially with having to take care of her sister. I very much got the feeling that Lightning does not (even more than other people) like feeling like she does not have control, and an early part of XIII is about all of them being powerless and scared, and how they handle it. Lightning lashes out, Hope focuses on revenge, Snow tries to confront the problem, Vanille runs away, and Sazh rushes towards his family.
This right here...
That game did have some good music. I had so much fun with the combat.
Snow and Lightning cannibalise each other's growth, due to their shared connection with Serah. Lightning is all anger, and Snow is all denial, and neither meaningfully progresses to acceptance.
13 isn't really served at all by beginning in media res. When FF7 starts you're all "Oh right, these characters are terrorist scum, gotcha" which is an easy connection to make. FF13 is all "Ah right, these guys are trying to rescue their family from the Pulse fal'cie, which is a creature similar to the ones that govern Cocoon except it's from another world that Cocoon went to war with thousands of years ago, and these people are being exiled because they came into contact with it, and fal'cie sometimes create l'cie which are servants that have to complete a task, with a damned if you do, damned if you don't outcome". Which is actually easy enough to follow, but is presented in a garbage way for no real reason.
If we'd begun with Serah and Lightning arguing about the former's engagement to Snow, we'd have a much better framework for establishing character relationships.
I don't think that's true? He is very strongly defined by his relationship with Serah, which is fine, but he is much deeper than that, imo
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Also, I loathed Hope early on (probably still dislike him tbh), but they sort most of his niggling whining issues out over the course of the game so he improves in my eyes, at least.
The one character arc sequence which is supremely enjoyed was the one between Sazh and Vanille. I remember that shit being intense, and it also clearly justified the reason why Vanille was framing the narrative for some really, really weird reason. In all honesty I think FFXIII's character strengths came mostly from seeing the whole party split up into bite-sized chunks and watching them clash and interplay with each other.
I could be wrong. I didn't play any past getting to gran pulse. From what I remember though, he didn't have any personality outside of his relationship, excepting a few things like his protectiveness of other people which to me all seemed like simple extensions of aspects of his Serah relationship. He ended up feeling like a very hollow and boring character to me.
Woah woah woah. "Terrorist scum"?? A team that includes characters named "Wedge" and "Biggs" is fighting nameless troopers wearing helmets that block their faces. "Rebels fighting the evil Empire" was clearly the conclusion to draw at the start of the game. And I'd argue, it was totally correct, their methods were just a tad too dangerous at the start.
Which makes some people upset in escapist entertainment that. people might react to deaths or racism or whatever realistically.
Yosuke is the exact same as those two for a Persona 4 comparison.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Don't believe Ondore's lies!
Yosuke might be a special case if the stuff about the writers wanting him to be in love with the MC is true.
I hate Wakka because he's a terrible person, not because he's a terrible character, so I agree with you there.
Hope though, I don't buy it. He did not feel authentic at all. I didn't dislike him because he was annoying (which he was), I disliked him because he wasn't a person.
People seem to really hate child characters who actually act like children.
Know what kids and teenagers do? They cry, get mad, have narrow viewpoints and are also complex.
You can prefer a badass no-nonsense child character if you want....it just wouldn't make much sense.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I was responding to LD50, not you. I should have quoted him. Damn you for posting faster.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
I've had a shitty fever for the last four days and I still post circles around you, son.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
He's kind of an asshole to Rikku.
They sort of make up but it was also not really warranted as Rikku is way too likeable and gentle for someone to fuck with.
This was also an issue in Valkyria Chronicles, and the personal bigotry that one character had was the result of an even worse justification.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I'm playing the PS1 version of FFVI on my Vita, and FUCK YOU SABIN.
That asshole just appeared in a boss fight and I can't do his stupid blitz and he dies and the save point is kinda way behind.
I try left right left X (which I had to go to a FAQ and learn about) and it says "INPUT INCORRECT FUCK YOU DIE.