I feel like I say this every time taxes come up. I feel like a lot of people would be less aggressively anti-tax if they actually understood how a progressive/bracket tax system works. It's very frustrating how few people I run into in the real world even have a basic understanding.
Nah. Most the the vehement anti-tax proponents are stuck in a neanderthal mindset that says "all the money I make should be mine!"
All taxes, to them, are being given to welfare queens and other assorted moochers.
Facts and true believers, etc.
The point is people who can actually be convinced by mere facts.
WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
People who think they are superior tend to have a blatant disregard for what IT tells them, and almost always outrank IT. Take that and extrapolate it out to the fucking Secretary of State. IT monkey is never, ever, ever winning that battle, no matter how many laws it breaks.
Hmm, there should just be a SecOSt@DC.us that is assigned and when a new one comes around just do a password change. And if it's not being used, get some whistle blowing going on.
I feel like I say this every time taxes come up. I feel like a lot of people would be less aggressively anti-tax if they actually understood how a progressive/bracket tax system works. It's very frustrating how few people I run into in the real world even have a basic understanding.
Nah. Most the the vehement anti-tax proponents are stuck in a neanderthal mindset that says "all the money I make should be mine!"
All taxes, to them, are being given to welfare queens and other assorted moochers.
I once had a conversation with a government employee that came down to him going "All tax is theft"
So. Yeah.
Re: Clinton: Once again proving powerful people can be so, so stupid.
No one really likes paying taxes. But everyone likes the things that taxes buy you, so shut the fuck up about paying for shit in one breath and bitching about the god damn roads in the other!
And Huckabee would be doomed as a presidential candidate Maurice Clemmons saw to that when he killed four police officers in washington state.
Disagree with the bolded.
I'm probably biased cause of my job but I really do like paying taxes and seeing firsthand what they go to. I watch taxes provide health care, lower and higher education, housing, food, financial counseling, and god knows how many other services to people I work with every day and am genuinely happy to know I help make that happen.
I look at countries without good systems of taxation and how they're giant shitholes, and then I realize how much of my money I still have after paying to not live in a place like that, and I'm glad I live in a country with taxes.
WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
People who think they are superior tend to have a blatant disregard for what IT tells them, and almost always outrank IT. Take that and extrapolate it out to the fucking Secretary of State. IT monkey is never, ever, ever winning that battle, no matter how many laws it breaks.
WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
Oh hey...that's gonna end up a massive problem for her. Great..now I can look forward to the Benghazi dominating the news cycle again.
The other thing that gets me about that is...you're Hillary Clinton. Do you really WANT to give people an excuse to subpoena your personal email account, or do you keep the emails on the official servers where they are firewalled like a sane person.
WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
Happens all the time with mobile devices. Someone hits the personal email address instead of work email from their contact list, recipient just hits reply. Or sender doesn't realise they have their personal email folder open when they create a new email, and again recipient just hits reply.
I don't think it's necessarily hubris. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to tell people "Quit sending work stuff to my personal email" to people who haven't realized they're doing it.
Archangle on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Son of a bitch, this is an actual problem, rather than a stupid made up Republican problem.
WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
Happens all the time with mobile devices. Someone hits the personal email address instead of work email from their contact list, recipient just hits reply. Or sender doesn't realise they have their personal email folder open when they create a new email, and again recipient just hits reply.
I don't think it's necessarily hubris. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to tell people "Quit sending work stuff to my personal email" to people who haven't realized they're doing it.
I figured it had more to do with how Ken Starr did his investigation souring her on using official email etc.
Son of a bitch, this is an actual problem, rather than a stupid made up Republican problem.
On the one hand, it sucks. Hillary was/potentially is a sure bet for the candidacy and by extension the presidency.
On the other hand, if this means she isn't the presumptive nominee, maybe somebody who isn't Hillary has a shot. If a good candidate emerges that isn't milquetoast like Kerry, I won't complain too much.
Son of a bitch, this is an actual problem, rather than a stupid made up Republican problem.
On the one hand, it sucks. Hillary was/potentially is a sure bet for the candidacy and by extension the presidency.
On the other hand, if this means she isn't the presumptive nominee, maybe somebody who isn't Hillary has a shot. If a good candidate emerges that isn't milquetoast like Kerry, I won't complain too much.
The other thing that gets me about that is...you're Hillary Clinton. Do you really WANT to give people an excuse to subpoena your personal email account, or do you keep the emails on the official servers where they are firewalled like a sane person.
It's a common practice for politicians to do while in office. IIRC Romney and Palin did it too.
There is a difference between "using private email for government business" and "using private email for ALL government business." She never used any official email.
The biggest problem for Hillary is that even if this was a bona fide, honest-to-god mistake and she attempts to mitigate this somehow by providing email access and oversight to officials for their perusal, there's no absolute 100% guarantee that she didn't clean it up a bit first. This can always be used to hurt her campaign aspirations, because the possibility that she messed with it will always be there. There was no oversight on this.
I'm not going to weasel-word this. It's incredibly damaging to Hillary. This is way worse than a Benghazi non-scandal.
The biggest problem for Hillary is that even if this was a bona fide, honest-to-god mistake and she attempts to mitigate this somehow by providing email access and oversight to officials for their perusal, there's no absolute 100% guarantee that she didn't clean it up a bit first. This can always be used to hurt her campaign aspirations, because the possibility that she messed with it will always be there. There was no oversight on this.
I'm not going to weasel-word this. It's incredibly damaging to Hillary. This is way worse than a Benghazi non-scandal.
How damaging is this to her presidential aspirations?
The biggest problem for Hillary is that even if this was a bona fide, honest-to-god mistake and she attempts to mitigate this somehow by providing email access and oversight to officials for their perusal, there's no absolute 100% guarantee that she didn't clean it up a bit first. This can always be used to hurt her campaign aspirations, because the possibility that she messed with it will always be there. There was no oversight on this.
I'm not going to weasel-word this. It's incredibly damaging to Hillary. This is way worse than a Benghazi non-scandal.
How damaging is this to her presidential aspirations?
It honestly depends on if she gets formally charged with anything.
I'm guessing Felony-level. Not that it'll ever go that far, just... yeah. It's probably a felony.
What felony charge?
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
How big this is depends on if the media gets a hold of the email dump. Hilary can't survive a Sony-style extended laundry airing.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited March 2015
There is absolutely no way she gets charged with anything, unless there is an email message clearly and explicitly stating an intention to avoid records laws. I mean, this is absolutely bad and it damages her, but she is not the first to do this.
Also, the media is going to be too excited to talk about Israel and so on, so by the time they cover this, it will sound like another Hillary witch hunt by the Right, because they've cried wolf so many fucking times.
A big deal ethically, but not actually a big deal politically. Because our system is pretty stupid, you guys.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
I read that Obama signed the law extending the Federal Records Act from 1950 to electronic communication (H.R. 1233) in late 2014, two years after Clinton stepped down. What other law or statutory change happened before that?
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
You know the committee that was investigating the Benghazi thing.
You know the committee that was investigating the Benghazi thing.
They're the people that found out about this.
Well I'm confident that won't lead to Benghazi folks being insufferable about this.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
They have been investigating bengazi for like, two years, and released a report showing that the administration did nothing wrong. Why is this only coming out now?
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
How will this ruin her chances exactly? Don't get me wrong, it was a very stupid thing to do. I just don't see how this going to be campaign stopper. Republicans will go after her with a vengeance no matter what so I don't see how things have actually changed.
"I see everything twice!"
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Using personal email as a sole method of communication appears to break rules outlined by the National Archives and Records Administration. The government agency stipulates that personal email can only be used in "emergency situations," and when used, the emails "are captured and managed in accordance with agency record-keeping practices."
According to the Times report, Clinton's "aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time."
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
I honestly don't see anything happening here. It's Obama's justice department, and if the Republicans make more than the standard talk show circuit complaining over it then there are about a half dozen republican Governors that they will have to slam dunk too.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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ResIpsaLoquiturNot a grammar nazi, just alt-write.Registered Userregular
Using personal email as a sole method of communication appears to break rules outlined by the National Archives and Records Administration. The government agency stipulates that personal email can only be used in "emergency situations," and when used, the emails "are captured and managed in accordance with agency record-keeping practices."
According to the Times report, Clinton's "aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time."
The other side of this is that anyone who would be emailing her for official business would have to have her personal email address, which makes me wonder how she was never called on it in all that time. At least if her work email was forwarded to her personal, we'd have a significant portion to work with, and she can claim she didn't realize that her replies didn't travel back the same way.
As a narrative, "acts like she's above the law, and no one could set her straight" feels more damaging than "didn't use her work email".
League of Legends: MichaelDominick; Blizzard(NA): MichaelD#11402; Steam ID: MichaelDominick
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Yeah if those emails of hers weren't saved somewhere on a government server then that's a felony. Nevermind the potential security risks involved with her using a personal email.
This could be extremely damaging especially if she flubs the damage control and lets it get out of hand.
Posts
Facts and true believers, etc.
The point is people who can actually be convinced by mere facts.
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PSN: AbEntropy
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clintons-use-of-private-email-at-state-department-raises-flags.html?_r=0
How the hell did the Secretary of State not get an official @gov email?
People who think they are superior tend to have a blatant disregard for what IT tells them, and almost always outrank IT. Take that and extrapolate it out to the fucking Secretary of State. IT monkey is never, ever, ever winning that battle, no matter how many laws it breaks.
I once had a conversation with a government employee that came down to him going "All tax is theft"
So. Yeah.
Re: Clinton: Once again proving powerful people can be so, so stupid.
Is AOL still in the email game?
Disagree with the bolded.
I'm probably biased cause of my job but I really do like paying taxes and seeing firsthand what they go to. I watch taxes provide health care, lower and higher education, housing, food, financial counseling, and god knows how many other services to people I work with every day and am genuinely happy to know I help make that happen.
So yeah, personally, I like paying taxes.
(sigh) Yeah.
Oh hey...that's gonna end up a massive problem for her. Great..now I can look forward to the Benghazi dominating the news cycle again.
I don't think it's necessarily hubris. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to tell people "Quit sending work stuff to my personal email" to people who haven't realized they're doing it.
I figured it had more to do with how Ken Starr did his investigation souring her on using official email etc.
MWO: Adamski
On the one hand, it sucks. Hillary was/potentially is a sure bet for the candidacy and by extension the presidency.
On the other hand, if this means she isn't the presumptive nominee, maybe somebody who isn't Hillary has a shot. If a good candidate emerges that isn't milquetoast like Kerry, I won't complain too much.
That is what I was thinking. It still sucks.
True, but is it an interesting enough problem for the media to give it any attention?
Edit: And I wouldn't be surprised to find plenty of the Republican choices have done the same thing.
It's a common practice for politicians to do while in office. IIRC Romney and Palin did it too.
That's a big problem.
I'm not going to weasel-word this. It's incredibly damaging to Hillary. This is way worse than a Benghazi non-scandal.
How damaging is this to her presidential aspirations?
It honestly depends on if she gets formally charged with anything.
What felony charge?
Also, the media is going to be too excited to talk about Israel and so on, so by the time they cover this, it will sound like another Hillary witch hunt by the Right, because they've cried wolf so many fucking times.
They're the people that found out about this.
Well I'm confident that won't lead to Benghazi folks being insufferable about this.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The other side of this is that anyone who would be emailing her for official business would have to have her personal email address, which makes me wonder how she was never called on it in all that time. At least if her work email was forwarded to her personal, we'd have a significant portion to work with, and she can claim she didn't realize that her replies didn't travel back the same way.
As a narrative, "acts like she's above the law, and no one could set her straight" feels more damaging than "didn't use her work email".
This could be extremely damaging especially if she flubs the damage control and lets it get out of hand.