The attack blocks the camera, when we get the screen back it is Bayonneta laying face down naked and the guy who launched the attack looking satisfied smoking a ciggarette
That's pretty fucked up! I never saw that, since I never fought Rodin the first game
Giving an enemy in the game the Raging Demon: Pretty Funny
Turning it into something that explicitly rapey: Pretty Fucked Up
Now I wonder if there's anything like that in the second game. Guess I'll find out soon-ish.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
It's a parody of multiple things.
1). Rodin smokes after everything he does. It's a taunt.
2). Bayonetta has a move where she ends up posing on the ground. He's parodying that.
3). He parodies that because Akuma taunts after the move.
4). The enemy is lying on the ground after raging demon defeats them in Street fighter in the same position, full length.
Not having clothes on is thoughtless and tacky but I don't think its intentional to imply rape. They probably want to imply that she's completely unconscious after the beatdown.
Shit, does japan even have the smoking after sex cliche?
I'd like to think they aren't that blase about it and that it's more likely to be naivette than anything else. It runs contrary to every other message in the game, in every form, and every other interaction between those two characters to assume that.
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Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
I pretty much completely agree with Wyborn, Bayonetta 2 is many, many, many steps backwards in terms of characterization and energy. Bayonetta was fun and empowering, Bayonetta 2 was serious and exhausting.
There's a lot of moments where Bayonetta is very badass, but there's very few where they show that she's having fun, which is what the first game was all about.
I felt like she was having fun all the time.
I must be the only person who actually noted her smiling all the time.
Bayonetta enjoys fighting. A lot. It's part of who she is.
There's a fierce, extremely aggressive undertone to her personality that I think this game showed a lot of.
My overall impression of this game was joyous.
It wasn't just because I was having fun. The dialogue in fights and cutscenes gave me the impression Bayonetta shared my passion and intensity in the combat.
I agree with this
(I'd also like to point out that while I can understand Wyborn's interpretation I disagree with it, though I'm not going to give as deep of an analysis as to why, considering I don't feel qualified to do so)
I will say that I don't agree with the Rodin thing, which I haven't seen before
that's is some inexcusably fucked up shit and frankly I'm grateful I wasn't exposed to it
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
Im just saying, platinum are a bunch of action game nerds and they make references constantly in everything they do. Kamiya's twitter icon has the cartridge for the first game to ever include double jump, for example. They put the fist of the north star multiple punches attack in almost every game they make. I'm pretty sure I even saw it in okami.
I can see how, to them, the raging demon could only ever be a melee attack, because that is the lore of streetfighter. And you can follow from that naive logic the disastrous and tacky idea that everybody else will follow along no matter how they decide to play with the taunt and opponent position afterwards.
And boy was that stupid of them.
Because fuck no they wont follow along.
They'll burn the building down.
And rightly so because it's appalling and they should have thought better of it.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
I'm replaying Bayonetta 1 and the combat feels weirdly, I dunno, tight? Compared to 2.
It feels like combo's will reset a lot faster, and you don't have as big a window to hit an attack after a pause. I'm dropping combo's on the shotguns left and right because if you hold the button to fire them just a split second too long it will drop the combo.
That and a lot of combo's have flourishes in the middle of them that slow you down.
(I'd also like to point out that while I can understand Wyborn's interpretation I disagree with it, though I'm not going to give as deep of an analysis as to why, considering I don't feel qualified to do so)
It doesn't need to be a deep analysis or anything, but I would like to hear why you disagree with what I said about how the portrayal of gender shifted between the two games
1). Rodin smokes after everything he does. It's a taunt.
2). Bayonetta has a move where she ends up posing on the ground. He's parodying that.
3). He parodies that because Akuma taunts after the move.
4). The enemy is lying on the ground after raging demon defeats them in Street fighter in the same position, full length.
Not having clothes on is thoughtless and tacky but I don't think its intentional to imply rape. They probably want to imply that she's completely unconscious after the beatdown.
.
Yeah it's a reference to shit
But why the hell is she naked
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
1). Rodin smokes after everything he does. It's a taunt.
2). Bayonetta has a move where she ends up posing on the ground. He's parodying that.
3). He parodies that because Akuma taunts after the move.
4). The enemy is lying on the ground after raging demon defeats them in Street fighter in the same position, full length.
Not having clothes on is thoughtless and tacky but I don't think its intentional to imply rape. They probably want to imply that she's completely unconscious after the beatdown.
.
Yeah it's a reference to shit
But why the hell is she naked
Why does she get naked when she attacks
edit less sarcastically does she not get naked when she is knocked down by enemies? I haven't played the games at all, I assumed she got naked pretty much all the time for any or no reason
She gets naked when she uses more powerful attacks because her clothes are made of her magic hair and said hair is used in said attacks
She doesn't get naked when knocked down or at random other times
(I'd also like to point out that while I can understand Wyborn's interpretation I disagree with it, though I'm not going to give as deep of an analysis as to why, considering I don't feel qualified to do so)
It doesn't need to be a deep analysis or anything, but I would like to hear why you disagree with what I said about how the portrayal of gender shifted between the two games
The long and short of it is that the male characters are not as powerful as you make them seem, they do not overrule bayonetta's role in the game (she's still very much numero uno, queen of all) and Baldur is actually kind of a pathetic tragic figure. He's an idiot who thought he could overpower a god. Of course that's going to fuck up. The only thing he managed to do is die right.
The game is intrinsically tied to the first and in that game Bayonetta finished what was started here. It is impossible to claim that these are separate stories. Themes from the first dominate the present. For all that Baldur does shit in this game he's already been ultimately defeated and killed in a more powerful form.
His place in this game is about Bayoneta, as a person, coming to terms with her father as a fellow person rather than a mwuahahaha moustache twirling cliche. Baldur was tricked into all the actions he took. Tricked by his sense of honor and paradiso. Past that point he's corrupted by Loptr. He's not the least bit evil: as a character his redemption is complete. The daddy bit you flip the table over is because he's her dad and he loves her, as a parent to a child. What is wrong with that? You can't show parent child affection in a game between a father and his daughter? Why? Because bayonetta has something to prove? Why? Why is the onus on her to prove anything? Her power is established; she's already defeated him. In total we know she's defeated him 4 times, each time more powerful than the last. No matter what he is weaker than her in the same way Jeanne was weaker than her, since she defeated jeanne every time she fought her. Hell in the last boss of this game he gets blasted out of the fight in the last stage because he's a putz: Bayonetta has to beat the boss down alone. The word choice is the analogue of what she calls her mother, its meant to show her affection. Which she is allowed to show for her own parent.
The problem in that scene is you believing that Bayonetta is still on the back foot in any gender relationships and if you are going to be like that nothing she ever does will ever be enough. She can never be anything other than a caricature. She can never interact, as a character, with male characters, in any fashion other than completely dominating them. Because no matter what you are going to read normal relationship dynamics between two people as bayonetta being lesser. Even if that makes her a terrible human being, since acting that way in this story would have made her insufferable because it has no justification.
And that is crazy. That is a broken reading of the interactions shown here. Everything is filtered through the assumption that if it isn't exactly as overwhelmingly female as the first game, it's suddenly derogatory. As a distortion of perception, that is as complete and comprehensive as it gets.
There's nothing wrong with showing these scenes. It defuses nothing, because she doesn't need to be fighting against any gender inequality: the first game's female dominance completely overshadows any male actions in this game.
Basically, you are treating it as if it has to be a fight between genders. It does not. A female can interact with males without needing to demonstrate her power, her power can be just assumed. It is assumed in this game. She is treated as if she is powerful already and has nothing to prove. So she can show her emotions more freely. Her compassion and positive feelings can be on display in an empowering fashion. They do not make her weaker as a character, they make her stronger.
The absolute worst you can say is that at times she's treated as an equal, as a fellow warrior. And you know what? That's not a bad thing.
Incidentally you get a plat for killing enough things in the rodin fight. You can't just sit there, you have to proactively kill stuff. Rodin is extremely slow and you are very maneouverable, you can get to enemies before they even land.
So canon bayonetta more than matches Rodin in that fight. I got a perfect platinum in it during my plat run.
Loki is a nothing. He's only male because female sidekick was already done. This was explicitly stated in his character design bog (he was originally female). When he's not being a nothing he's being a deus ex machina. Literally. In the old greek style. All his posturing is meant to seem like pathetic bravado and it is: whenever anything serious happens Bayonetta has to save him.
He's about as alpha as a kicked puppy.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Does the Witch Trials change at all depending on the difficulty you play on? I'm wondering if I should tackle them on Second Climax before playing 3rd Climax
Does the Witch Trials change at all depending on the difficulty you play on? I'm wondering if I should tackle them on Second Climax before playing 3rd Climax
Does the Witch Trials change at all depending on the difficulty you play on? I'm wondering if I should tackle them on Second Climax before playing 3rd Climax
fair enough
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Giant baby-faced lava boss. Three giant horse guys, two shields and one whip-sword. Hammer dudes. Alraune. Alraune again. Grace and Glory. Gracious and Glorious. Loptr. Baldr.
And I'm forgetting some
I lost only at the end there, and I think he was the last
All of that, in a row, with no helaing save what health items are dropped by enemies you kill with torture attacks or the small green wreaths you get between verses
Non-stop fighting for your life, that heart-pounding sense of being on the edge at any given moment, where every mistake will inevitably be your last
This is it
This is the feeling I've been waiting for
The real Bayonetta 2 starts here
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
and there's a witch trial 5
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
You fight the final boss, but there's still several rounds left. What could possibly be next? Out pops Grace and Glory and Sloth. "Haha, touche." I say to the screen.
I beat witch trial 4 on my second try after I started using bracelet of time. That thing is ridiculously good, even though you no longer gain witch time by dodging.
You fight the final boss, but there's still several rounds left. What could possibly be next? Out pops Grace and Glory and Sloth. "Haha, touche." I say to the screen.
That doesn't sound too hard actually.
Just torture attack sloth. Grace and glory can be juggled this time around.
Sounds like more of a break with a bit of "stay on your toes"
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Hey guys I'm near the end of bayo 1 and I need to outrun an explosion and I have no idea how to do it
I had problems here too. Go into Panther immediately and you can outrun it, but it'll look like the explosion is overtaking you almost the entire time.
Bayo 1 has some weird bits in how you interacted with it
People remember it a certain way because it was the first Platinum game produced under the studio's banner that made people really sit up and go "Holy shit Clover isn't dead!" but they've learned a lot since then
Posts
Linked for nsfw
Spoiler because its hard to get at first
There is some implications here
What the fuck platinum
Giving an enemy in the game the Raging Demon: Pretty Funny
Turning it into something that explicitly rapey: Pretty Fucked Up
Now I wonder if there's anything like that in the second game. Guess I'll find out soon-ish.
1). Rodin smokes after everything he does. It's a taunt.
2). Bayonetta has a move where she ends up posing on the ground. He's parodying that.
3). He parodies that because Akuma taunts after the move.
4). The enemy is lying on the ground after raging demon defeats them in Street fighter in the same position, full length.
Not having clothes on is thoughtless and tacky but I don't think its intentional to imply rape. They probably want to imply that she's completely unconscious after the beatdown.
Shit, does japan even have the smoking after sex cliche?
I'd like to think they aren't that blase about it and that it's more likely to be naivette than anything else. It runs contrary to every other message in the game, in every form, and every other interaction between those two characters to assume that.
I agree with this
(I'd also like to point out that while I can understand Wyborn's interpretation I disagree with it, though I'm not going to give as deep of an analysis as to why, considering I don't feel qualified to do so)
I will say that I don't agree with the Rodin thing, which I haven't seen before
that's is some inexcusably fucked up shit and frankly I'm grateful I wasn't exposed to it
I can see how, to them, the raging demon could only ever be a melee attack, because that is the lore of streetfighter. And you can follow from that naive logic the disastrous and tacky idea that everybody else will follow along no matter how they decide to play with the taunt and opponent position afterwards.
And boy was that stupid of them.
Because fuck no they wont follow along.
They'll burn the building down.
And rightly so because it's appalling and they should have thought better of it.
I feel like that's stretching that a bit
Jeanne is not in this as much as I remember
It feels like combo's will reset a lot faster, and you don't have as big a window to hit an attack after a pause. I'm dropping combo's on the shotguns left and right because if you hold the button to fire them just a split second too long it will drop the combo.
That and a lot of combo's have flourishes in the middle of them that slow you down.
It doesn't need to be a deep analysis or anything, but I would like to hear why you disagree with what I said about how the portrayal of gender shifted between the two games
That is
I really wish Platinum had been the ones to do a Zelda spin-off, and it had been a CAG
Unlockable Ganondorf as portrayed by Platinum Games is a thought I will never be able to give up
But why the hell is she naked
Why does she get naked when she attacks
edit less sarcastically does she not get naked when she is knocked down by enemies? I haven't played the games at all, I assumed she got naked pretty much all the time for any or no reason
She doesn't get naked when knocked down or at random other times
There's only a few messages you can pick up from her being completely nude and in a traditional "morning after" pose
The Bayonetta Story
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
The game is intrinsically tied to the first and in that game Bayonetta finished what was started here. It is impossible to claim that these are separate stories. Themes from the first dominate the present. For all that Baldur does shit in this game he's already been ultimately defeated and killed in a more powerful form.
His place in this game is about Bayoneta, as a person, coming to terms with her father as a fellow person rather than a mwuahahaha moustache twirling cliche. Baldur was tricked into all the actions he took. Tricked by his sense of honor and paradiso. Past that point he's corrupted by Loptr. He's not the least bit evil: as a character his redemption is complete. The daddy bit you flip the table over is because he's her dad and he loves her, as a parent to a child. What is wrong with that? You can't show parent child affection in a game between a father and his daughter? Why? Because bayonetta has something to prove? Why? Why is the onus on her to prove anything? Her power is established; she's already defeated him. In total we know she's defeated him 4 times, each time more powerful than the last. No matter what he is weaker than her in the same way Jeanne was weaker than her, since she defeated jeanne every time she fought her. Hell in the last boss of this game he gets blasted out of the fight in the last stage because he's a putz: Bayonetta has to beat the boss down alone. The word choice is the analogue of what she calls her mother, its meant to show her affection. Which she is allowed to show for her own parent.
The problem in that scene is you believing that Bayonetta is still on the back foot in any gender relationships and if you are going to be like that nothing she ever does will ever be enough. She can never be anything other than a caricature. She can never interact, as a character, with male characters, in any fashion other than completely dominating them. Because no matter what you are going to read normal relationship dynamics between two people as bayonetta being lesser. Even if that makes her a terrible human being, since acting that way in this story would have made her insufferable because it has no justification.
And that is crazy. That is a broken reading of the interactions shown here. Everything is filtered through the assumption that if it isn't exactly as overwhelmingly female as the first game, it's suddenly derogatory. As a distortion of perception, that is as complete and comprehensive as it gets.
There's nothing wrong with showing these scenes. It defuses nothing, because she doesn't need to be fighting against any gender inequality: the first game's female dominance completely overshadows any male actions in this game.
Basically, you are treating it as if it has to be a fight between genders. It does not. A female can interact with males without needing to demonstrate her power, her power can be just assumed. It is assumed in this game. She is treated as if she is powerful already and has nothing to prove. So she can show her emotions more freely. Her compassion and positive feelings can be on display in an empowering fashion. They do not make her weaker as a character, they make her stronger.
The absolute worst you can say is that at times she's treated as an equal, as a fellow warrior. And you know what? That's not a bad thing.
Incidentally you get a plat for killing enough things in the rodin fight. You can't just sit there, you have to proactively kill stuff. Rodin is extremely slow and you are very maneouverable, you can get to enemies before they even land.
So canon bayonetta more than matches Rodin in that fight. I got a perfect platinum in it during my plat run.
Loki is a nothing. He's only male because female sidekick was already done. This was explicitly stated in his character design bog (he was originally female). When he's not being a nothing he's being a deus ex machina. Literally. In the old greek style. All his posturing is meant to seem like pathetic bravado and it is: whenever anything serious happens Bayonetta has to save him.
He's about as alpha as a kicked puppy.
And then BAM HEADBUTT NO BIG DEAL CARRY ON.
My favourite part is in chapter 1.
The last stomp?
She looks so happy.
So damn happy.
She's having a ball.
It is infectious.
It makes me happy.
Steam
I kind of wish this had been the main theme of the game rather than Tomorrow is Mine
like devil never cry in dmc3. its the main theme, but it isn't used constantly.
Also:
So, there you go
Anyway
Does the Witch Trials change at all depending on the difficulty you play on? I'm wondering if I should tackle them on Second Climax before playing 3rd Climax
No, they're independent of difficulty levels.
fair enough
And I'm forgetting some
I lost only at the end there, and I think he was the last
All of that, in a row, with no helaing save what health items are dropped by enemies you kill with torture attacks or the small green wreaths you get between verses
Non-stop fighting for your life, that heart-pounding sense of being on the edge at any given moment, where every mistake will inevitably be your last
This is it
This is the feeling I've been waiting for
The real Bayonetta 2 starts here
Witch trial 5 destroys me in the first verse.
Like
Loptr cannot take that shit. He basically melts.
That doesn't sound too hard actually.
Sounds like more of a break with a bit of "stay on your toes"
You are thinking of gracious and glorious.
edit: doh i should have refreshed
Anyway
So I assume Witch Trials V is on Infinite Climax. That first Verse is a rough awakening.
I'm assuming it's the toughest thing in the game, unless the fight from the Platinum Ticket is like super hard
Panther. Also jump a lot. I'm not actually sure if jumping helps but it looks cool.
I had problems here too. Go into Panther immediately and you can outrun it, but it'll look like the explosion is overtaking you almost the entire time.
Steam
People remember it a certain way because it was the first Platinum game produced under the studio's banner that made people really sit up and go "Holy shit Clover isn't dead!" but they've learned a lot since then