Yeah once I got a second town in place that specialized in Dust, and I got a couple more techs to help boost my per turn value, I was able to buy new heroes every 3-4 turns if I wanted.
Even if you don't have time to play, you just have to boot up the game! Doitdoitdoit! It's per game for both so make sure you boot up both DotE and Endless Legend if you have them.
So does anyone still play this? I bought after the weekend because I like these types of games and it seems like a strange mix of rpg and civ. you almost have to play like you're roleplaying because it's seems so impossible to stalemate a war and the gold backup victory condition is so much easier than the other backups that none of them are worth persuing for any faction*.
The game also isn't balanced particularly well. Certain factions don't have a chance of winning(against people) because they're so dependent on the good graces of others(cultists and traders). And some factions(necrophages) have to be ganged up on to lose.
Conceptually I like the structure of the micro but not necessarily the implementation. It's too easy to make cities and capture cities and so there is neither an incentive/reason for razing (you can never raze before someone retakes anyway if you can't hold) nor any mechanic that limits the micro that needs to be done, making later game turns only go fast if you want them to go fast.
*because there are more multiplicative boosts to gold production and because there are more opportunities to get +gold production on citizens it's a lot easier to hammer out the gold amount than the science amount especially since you can buy your way to more gold with gold, but you can't spend science to get more science buildings.
I don't, but it's not because of balance. I've been forcing myself to play more of the games which are in my backlog because it feels like a waste to have purchased them without giving them the time of day, as opposed to sticking with specific games for hundreds of hours.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited April 2015
You played it since the weekend and you already understand the multi balance? Doubtful.
For one, necros are considered the weakest. Against an actual player proliferators produce ants that another players army steps on absent mindedly in passing.
Vaulters are pretty fuckin overpowered though, that teleport ability is nuts. You can't ever stretch them thin.
However, the developers did not and do not expect the game to ever be 100% balanced.
"I can guarantee you that the game will never be 100 percent balanced," said lead designer Romain de Waubert, in an interview with Polygon. "That is the nature of true asynchronous gameplay. It is always fascinating to see people playing a new way, a new strategy, to beat the game or another player."
"We are in constant motion, answering the player's strategies," added de Waubert. "The game is alive. It will never be set in stone. We are going for really asynchronous gameplay and we accept that there will never be balance."
So if you want perfect balance you are going to have to look elsewhere, it'll never happen here.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Necro are strong because it's easy to get big with slavery and cull the herd and boroughs. Proliferator units being weak doesn't matter as much since you can still sell the units for cash money to get real armies. Cultists don't work because one city means it's too easy to neuter them by killing the surrounding villages since they have no way to rebuild them and the cost of converting increases regardless of current villages so if you try to take stuff in other peoples lands they just destroy it and rebuild it and eat your influence away. Traders are weak because you have to have good trade routes which are easily preventable. Plus you can't declare war so you're always at the mercy of another player and if you get hemmed in and closed borders you're basically done.
It's like I don't have to play civ a lot to know that Germany and Venice get wrecked in multi by taking out city states/trade routes.
I have played this game a lot but not nearly as much as other 4X or turn based games like Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes, Civilization, Heroes of Might and Magic, or King's Bounty.
I really love the early parts of the game when you're exploring and expanding. The first 1/3 to 1/2 is really great. I love the sense of building your kingdom up from nothing, doing quests, settling new regions, and fighting/treating with neutral factions.
However, the game gets less fun the longer it lasts and it's not just because of the longer wait between turns and loading times. I think it's in part due to the lack of good neutral enemies/events/quests later on. All the significant interaction/conflict are with other factions. Whereas in a game like FE: Legendary Heroes or Heroes, there are plenty of powerful neutrals you have to deal with even when you're quite late into the game. There are also tough quests meant for late game. Plus there are all sorts of really powerful artifacts you can acquire later in the game.
Also, I don't like the combat. I get that they're trying to do something new but there aren't enough options and it just ends up being a slog at the start and a distraction later. If they can't do something as in-depth as a Heroes or Age of Wonder game, then it's better to just keep it really simple.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Necro are strong because it's easy to get big with slavery and cull the herd and boroughs. Proliferator units being weak doesn't matter as much since you can still sell the units for cash money to get real armies. Cultists don't work because one city means it's too easy to neuter them by killing the surrounding villages since they have no way to rebuild them and the cost of converting increases regardless of current villages so if you try to take stuff in other peoples lands they just destroy it and rebuild it and eat your influence away. Traders are weak because you have to have good trade routes which are easily preventable. Plus you can't declare war so you're always at the mercy of another player and if you get hemmed in and closed borders you're basically done.
It's like I don't have to play civ a lot to know that Germany and Venice get wrecked in multi by taking out city states/trade routes.
Regardless, actual people who have played multi report that necrophages are extremely weak. So your theory crafting doesn't pan out in practice.
I agree with you with traders and cultists, but cultists tech is actually fairly strong and you can create death balls with their special item. So in an actual match cultists might be more viable than you think, especially on a smaller map. They can get the relevant item pretty quickly. I'm just theorycrafting that idea too though.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
necros are terrible. they start out slow due to low food production and there's absolutely no reason not to gang up and wipe them out. playing the necros is like painting a big ol target on your back.
that's not what I said at all and you know it. you're going to have to admit that you are wrong.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
you gang up on them because they cannot defend themselves at all and are an easy kill, so everybody reaches the conclusion ("easy kill, take them out now") at the same time.
there is no way to spin that to indicate that they are strong
in multiplayer being able to kill them off immediately because you have a tremendous power advantage over them becomes the default correct choice
why wouldn't you?
all the other races can defend themselves adequately enough that trying to gang up on them could lead to being backstabbed as your forces are tied up. necros are so weak early on they just get obliterated so there isn't even that tension.
they're a nothing.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
it's also because they cannot conduct diplomacy. so what reason do you even have to keep them around? all they are good for is taking their cities. someone trying for a non conquest victory would still have a reason to keep around a different weaker faction, but not the necrophages. scorched earth.
So does anyone still play this? I bought after the weekend because I like these types of games and it seems like a strange mix of rpg and civ. you almost have to play like you're roleplaying because it's seems so impossible to stalemate a war and the gold backup victory condition is so much easier than the other backups that none of them are worth persuing for any faction*.
The game also isn't balanced particularly well. Certain factions don't have a chance of winning(against people) because they're so dependent on the good graces of others(cultists and traders). And some factions(necrophages) have to be ganged up on to lose.
Conceptually I like the structure of the micro but not necessarily the implementation. It's too easy to make cities and capture cities and so there is neither an incentive/reason for razing (you can never raze before someone retakes anyway if you can't hold) nor any mechanic that limits the micro that needs to be done, making later game turns only go fast if you want them to go fast.
*because there are more multiplicative boosts to gold production and because there are more opportunities to get +gold production on citizens it's a lot easier to hammer out the gold amount than the science amount especially since you can buy your way to more gold with gold, but you can't spend science to get more science buildings.
I still play this game as my default single player/offline game, yeah. Has always been more enjoyable to me than Civ 5 both for gameplay and aesthetic. Still trying to get good at the thrid- and second-from-top difficulty levels.
Steam, LoL: credeiki
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
it's also because they cannot conduct diplomacy. so what reason do you even have to keep them around? all they are good for is taking their cities. someone trying for a non conquest victory would still have a reason to keep around a different weaker faction, but not the necrophages. scorched earth.
good point
a canny trader could even make alliances with people based on locking their enemies out of the market, but not them.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I apparently suck at this game where I normally win at Civ. I picked easy difficulty with random faction choice thinking I could learn as I go and probably eek out a win.
I got the Roving Clans, picked up from their bonuses that they are all about dust, diplomacy, and trading so went heavy with that.
I was winning at around turn 100 with a higher score than everyone, when the Bug dudes went from cold war to actual war with me in very few turns. In retrospect I should have shifted my armies back to my cities when they closed their borders, but I was dealing with closed borders on my other side from the Ardent Mages. When the bugs declared war, they were in my cities the turn after. I lost two cities and then lost my entire army trying to take a city back (didn't realize what fortification did during the battle phase). Sorry Roving Clans, I failed you.
I was barely managing to keep my empire happy and expanding. No idea how I could have also managed to keep my armies big enough to fend off the assault the bug dudes sent my way. The game seemed surprisingly difficult for the easy difficulty level.
we just talked about the solution: squash bug people before they even become a threat because them declaring war on you is inevitable
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
@Obifett Try the vaulters on your next go, they gain the ability to teleport their armies between cities, so you only need to invest in on garrison stack and X explorer stacks rather than garrisoning every city. They also let you cancel out winter's effects on your cities which is pretty nice.
yes "kill all necrophages" is a good rule to live by in this game. being the roving clans made that a bit of a problem though as they can't declare war. good introductory factions are the vaulters, wild walkers, and drakken as they play fairly similar to regular civ factions. it's a good thing you didn't roll the broken lords or cult
Jars on
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I'm fine with odd faction rules and things. Actually, the massive faction differences is the one thing that pulled me into the game. Even though I basically lost the first game I played, it was really fun to learn the new faction from scratch and have to make decisions about enemy factions with less than complete information. I'm really excited to start a new random faction game and see what is in store.
If I am in that situation again, I will probably goad those bugs to declare war on me earlier and then take them out that way.
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Second game in the books. Went with random faction choice and the game gave me Necrophages. lawl
I expanded really fast and took out the first faction I came across. From then on, it was just a constant steamroll. I probably could have taken down each faction one by one, but having not seem much of the game, I decided I would go for the quest victory (not knowing what it held in store for me). I had a couple tense wars. (I love the way battles are handled in the game, especially with nearby armies able to enter as reinforcements)
I'm not sure if the quest victories are the same every time, but its really cool to have the quest objectives be all over the map and therefore in enemy territory. Having to send armies into other factions' territories walking a fine line between pissing them off and having the army be strong enough to deal with what the ruins bring was cool. The end was a bit anticlimactic. I was able to buy the 6 settlers outright in a single turn and then just cruised over to the ruins.
Between the rpg type heroes, district building, self-created units, and normal civ-like world building walking away from my little bugs was hard.
Really really digging this game. Bummed I didn't buy into this earlier.
that's a general quest that is open to everyone(it's actually add on content). there is a faction specific questline that culminates with building a wonder
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
that's a general quest that is open to everyone(it's actually add on content). there is a faction specific questline that culminates with building a wonder
I hit the wonder and started building it, but the turns for completion was around 40 turns and that was with a constant flow of production stockpiles headed into the production city.
I still have a ton to learn about city optimization. I actually resorted to googling how districts work, since that was the most obtuse part of the entire game for me. They are a straight drain on a city's happiness until they hit lvl 2 and I had no idea how to make them hit lvl 2! Once I figured out how to lvl them up, I was building triangle-based cities all over the place.
oh, wine btw wine is OP. I had the wine booster active 100% of the time that game and it felt like I could do no wrong because of it.
I laugh at the idea of my Drunk Bugs reaching whatever destination they headed off to in that ship. Either they will be a really crappy representative for their old world or they will be the worst colonizers of all time.
that's a general quest that is open to everyone(it's actually add on content). there is a faction specific questline that culminates with building a wonder
I hit the wonder and started building it, but the turns for completion was around 40 turns and that was with a constant flow of production stockpiles headed into the production city.
I still have a ton to learn about city optimization. I actually resorted to googling how districts work, since that was the most obtuse part of the entire game for me. They are a straight drain on a city's happiness until they hit lvl 2 and I had no idea how to make them hit lvl 2! Once I figured out how to lvl them up, I was building triangle-based cities all over the place.
oh, wine btw wine is OP. I had the wine booster active 100% of the time that game and it felt like I could do no wrong because of it.
I laugh at the idea of my Drunk Bugs reaching whatever destination they headed off to in that ship. Either they will be a really crappy representative for their old world or they will be the worst colonizers of all time.
They sure will get a
8-)
craving.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I've only played around with it a little, but I had a lot of fun. The additional quests and epic deeds or whatever they're called add a nice element of competition that doesn't involve actual war (unless, y'know, it does). I think that might actually be my favorite part.
I think trade and diplomacy also got a bit of a boost. There's more of a reason to make nice with your neighbors instead of killing them and taking their shit.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Is there some sort of lore library for all the Endless shit?
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Is there some sort of lore library for all the Endless shit?
Perhaps unofficially in a wiki, but they've specifically mentioned in a Twitch Q&A that they're happy not having the lore etched in stone. They want to keep their IP fluid to change without getting mixed up into retconning
Okay, here's something to try. I haven't personally confirmed it, but it looks like only the host needs to have Guardians. So, if you're unsure, there may be a way for you to try it out.
Hey you guys, anyone want to get a multiplayer match going? I have some serious free time and a hankering for a nice 4 player match. Anyone interested?
Posts
Early on I will frequently skip them due to money issues, but once you hit that mid-game stride you should be able to afford them pretty easily.
Everyoneeeeeeeeee! I want those TF2 DotE characters!
http://g2g.amplitude-studios.com/Free-Weekend/
Play this weekend, and there's community unlocks!
Even if you don't have time to play, you just have to boot up the game! Doitdoitdoit! It's per game for both so make sure you boot up both DotE and Endless Legend if you have them.
SteamID: edgruberman GOG Galaxy: EdGruberman
The game also isn't balanced particularly well. Certain factions don't have a chance of winning(against people) because they're so dependent on the good graces of others(cultists and traders). And some factions(necrophages) have to be ganged up on to lose.
Conceptually I like the structure of the micro but not necessarily the implementation. It's too easy to make cities and capture cities and so there is neither an incentive/reason for razing (you can never raze before someone retakes anyway if you can't hold) nor any mechanic that limits the micro that needs to be done, making later game turns only go fast if you want them to go fast.
*because there are more multiplicative boosts to gold production and because there are more opportunities to get +gold production on citizens it's a lot easier to hammer out the gold amount than the science amount especially since you can buy your way to more gold with gold, but you can't spend science to get more science buildings.
For one, necros are considered the weakest. Against an actual player proliferators produce ants that another players army steps on absent mindedly in passing.
Vaulters are pretty fuckin overpowered though, that teleport ability is nuts. You can't ever stretch them thin.
However, the developers did not and do not expect the game to ever be 100% balanced.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5924649/endless-legend-steam-preview
So if you want perfect balance you are going to have to look elsewhere, it'll never happen here.
It's like I don't have to play civ a lot to know that Germany and Venice get wrecked in multi by taking out city states/trade routes.
I really love the early parts of the game when you're exploring and expanding. The first 1/3 to 1/2 is really great. I love the sense of building your kingdom up from nothing, doing quests, settling new regions, and fighting/treating with neutral factions.
However, the game gets less fun the longer it lasts and it's not just because of the longer wait between turns and loading times. I think it's in part due to the lack of good neutral enemies/events/quests later on. All the significant interaction/conflict are with other factions. Whereas in a game like FE: Legendary Heroes or Heroes, there are plenty of powerful neutrals you have to deal with even when you're quite late into the game. There are also tough quests meant for late game. Plus there are all sorts of really powerful artifacts you can acquire later in the game.
Also, I don't like the combat. I get that they're trying to do something new but there aren't enough options and it just ends up being a slog at the start and a distraction later. If they can't do something as in-depth as a Heroes or Age of Wonder game, then it's better to just keep it really simple.
Regardless, actual people who have played multi report that necrophages are extremely weak. So your theory crafting doesn't pan out in practice.
I agree with you with traders and cultists, but cultists tech is actually fairly strong and you can create death balls with their special item. So in an actual match cultists might be more viable than you think, especially on a smaller map. They can get the relevant item pretty quickly. I'm just theorycrafting that idea too though.
there is no way to spin that to indicate that they are strong
in multiplayer being able to kill them off immediately because you have a tremendous power advantage over them becomes the default correct choice
why wouldn't you?
all the other races can defend themselves adequately enough that trying to gang up on them could lead to being backstabbed as your forces are tied up. necros are so weak early on they just get obliterated so there isn't even that tension.
they're a nothing.
I still play this game as my default single player/offline game, yeah. Has always been more enjoyable to me than Civ 5 both for gameplay and aesthetic. Still trying to get good at the thrid- and second-from-top difficulty levels.
good point
a canny trader could even make alliances with people based on locking their enemies out of the market, but not them.
I got the Roving Clans, picked up from their bonuses that they are all about dust, diplomacy, and trading so went heavy with that.
I was winning at around turn 100 with a higher score than everyone, when the Bug dudes went from cold war to actual war with me in very few turns. In retrospect I should have shifted my armies back to my cities when they closed their borders, but I was dealing with closed borders on my other side from the Ardent Mages. When the bugs declared war, they were in my cities the turn after. I lost two cities and then lost my entire army trying to take a city back (didn't realize what fortification did during the battle phase). Sorry Roving Clans, I failed you.
I was barely managing to keep my empire happy and expanding. No idea how I could have also managed to keep my armies big enough to fend off the assault the bug dudes sent my way. The game seemed surprisingly difficult for the easy difficulty level.
oh, the bug people are the necrophages you talked about above?
makes sense now
edit: even more annoyed now because they were the first faction I came across, I could have wiped them from the earth from the beginning
If I am in that situation again, I will probably goad those bugs to declare war on me earlier and then take them out that way.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/357360/
I expanded really fast and took out the first faction I came across. From then on, it was just a constant steamroll. I probably could have taken down each faction one by one, but having not seem much of the game, I decided I would go for the quest victory (not knowing what it held in store for me). I had a couple tense wars. (I love the way battles are handled in the game, especially with nearby armies able to enter as reinforcements)
I'm not sure if the quest victories are the same every time, but its really cool to have the quest objectives be all over the map and therefore in enemy territory. Having to send armies into other factions' territories walking a fine line between pissing them off and having the army be strong enough to deal with what the ruins bring was cool. The end was a bit anticlimactic. I was able to buy the 6 settlers outright in a single turn and then just cruised over to the ruins.
Between the rpg type heroes, district building, self-created units, and normal civ-like world building walking away from my little bugs was hard.
Really really digging this game. Bummed I didn't buy into this earlier.
I hit the wonder and started building it, but the turns for completion was around 40 turns and that was with a constant flow of production stockpiles headed into the production city.
I still have a ton to learn about city optimization. I actually resorted to googling how districts work, since that was the most obtuse part of the entire game for me. They are a straight drain on a city's happiness until they hit lvl 2 and I had no idea how to make them hit lvl 2! Once I figured out how to lvl them up, I was building triangle-based cities all over the place.
oh, wine btw wine is OP. I had the wine booster active 100% of the time that game and it felt like I could do no wrong because of it.
I laugh at the idea of my Drunk Bugs reaching whatever destination they headed off to in that ship. Either they will be a really crappy representative for their old world or they will be the worst colonizers of all time.
They sure will get a
8-)
craving.
Steam Workshop,
SteamOS,
Steam Controller
http://g2g.amplitude-studios.com/G2G-Votes2
SteamID: edgruberman GOG Galaxy: EdGruberman
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I think trade and diplomacy also got a bit of a boost. There's more of a reason to make nice with your neighbors instead of killing them and taking their shit.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Perhaps unofficially in a wiki, but they've specifically mentioned in a Twitch Q&A that they're happy not having the lore etched in stone. They want to keep their IP fluid to change without getting mixed up into retconning