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Thinking of leaving my wife
tdon5069
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm in a bit of a panic, and almost don't know where to begin.
I've been married since 2008, and we've been together since 2002. We have a son, he's going to turn 2 this summer.
I'm no longer in love with my wife. I could probably list all the things I find bad about her or the relationship but if I'm being honest, she's a great girl and I still care for her. She's the mother of my son and she's a great mom. But I'm no longer happy. I've spent years trying to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it, or at least get it better. And I'm out of ideas and frankly out of a desire to put any more effort into fixing things.
I think it boils down to us getting together too early, and me never really living a life apart to find out what I really wanted. So this post is part cathartic and part looking for advice. I've decided I'm going to give things a few months, maybe this is just a mid-life crisis and in 3 weeks I'll look back and feel stupid for thinking about this. Having said that, I feel things are coming to a head, as I'm no longer able to really 'fake it' and it's becoming obvious to her that I'm mentally somewhat checked out. We're going to have the talk eventually and I just know that I'm going to do whatever to appease her and avoid the messy confrontation.
I guess my question is, how do I end this, or should I just devote myself to making the best out of this situation? I kind of feel like separation is inevitable, we've been having the same fight for the last 8 years or so and each time it's a little worse. Is it better to move on now while we still have some hope of working together for the best interests of our son?
Another thing that makes it so hard is I know she'll fight tooth and nail to keep me around. I tried ending it once before, about a year before we got married but during the big long fight/conversation I caved and then things were ok again for a while. I think it would be easier if I knew she hated or disliked me or something. But she doesn't. She's also sacrificed a lot for us to get where we are. So really part of why I haven't done anything yet is guilt. But surely guilt's not a good reason to stay in a relationship right?
I also am afraid of the logistics, telling friends and family, and where do I go what about money and our son's daycare/preschool, etc.
Has anyone been in a similar situation?
I've been married since 2008, and we've been together since 2002. We have a son, he's going to turn 2 this summer.
I'm no longer in love with my wife. I could probably list all the things I find bad about her or the relationship but if I'm being honest, she's a great girl and I still care for her. She's the mother of my son and she's a great mom. But I'm no longer happy. I've spent years trying to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it, or at least get it better. And I'm out of ideas and frankly out of a desire to put any more effort into fixing things.
I think it boils down to us getting together too early, and me never really living a life apart to find out what I really wanted. So this post is part cathartic and part looking for advice. I've decided I'm going to give things a few months, maybe this is just a mid-life crisis and in 3 weeks I'll look back and feel stupid for thinking about this. Having said that, I feel things are coming to a head, as I'm no longer able to really 'fake it' and it's becoming obvious to her that I'm mentally somewhat checked out. We're going to have the talk eventually and I just know that I'm going to do whatever to appease her and avoid the messy confrontation.
I guess my question is, how do I end this, or should I just devote myself to making the best out of this situation? I kind of feel like separation is inevitable, we've been having the same fight for the last 8 years or so and each time it's a little worse. Is it better to move on now while we still have some hope of working together for the best interests of our son?
Another thing that makes it so hard is I know she'll fight tooth and nail to keep me around. I tried ending it once before, about a year before we got married but during the big long fight/conversation I caved and then things were ok again for a while. I think it would be easier if I knew she hated or disliked me or something. But she doesn't. She's also sacrificed a lot for us to get where we are. So really part of why I haven't done anything yet is guilt. But surely guilt's not a good reason to stay in a relationship right?
I also am afraid of the logistics, telling friends and family, and where do I go what about money and our son's daycare/preschool, etc.
Has anyone been in a similar situation?
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In essence it's a fight about my own privacy, and her inability to trust me or respect my personal space. Which of course leads to more resentment which leads to more fights.
Try counseling? Therapy?
No relationship will last long term if there is a trust issue from both parties involved.
In the end have to do what makes you happy, so things don't get worse and someone does something they regret for a lifetime. Will need some type of relationship with her at least the next16-22 years with having a child togther.
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She also mentioned during the fight that she thought the only reason I was still in the relationship was a fear of being alone. Which is something I've dwelt on the last month or so and realized maybe she's right.
Wait, am I reading this right? She vetoed you going to your friend's birthday party because she judged the friend too good-looking and in her mind that's a legit reason to assume you're being unfaithful after 14 years being fateful to her, and you agreed and didn't attend the party and told your friend why, and she got into your FB and read your private message to your friend and got upset at you for telling your friend why you weren't attending the party, and kicked you out of the house and back to your parents for a few nights over it?
And you're telling us that this type of behaviour has been getting worse over the years, and that it is tertiary compared to other issues you're having with her?
First, the couples counseling is a good idea. You clearly have differing ideas of what acceptable levels of privacy are, it's possible you'll be able to resolve it.
Second, are you talking about your relationship here or are you talking about you? Your relationship complaint so far is something that (to you) is relatively minor and you dismiss out of hand. If you somehow expect the major shakeup of your life to just magically end with you happy I think you've got a major misconception there and wouldn't suggest blowing up your life because of it.
Basically, if you're actually unhappy because of the relationship then ending it is one thing, if you are just unhappy and happen to be a relationship then ending it isn't going to do anything about being unhappy.
Well it became one of those fights where she drags out stuff from years ago and gets madder and madder. When you put it like that it sounds pretty bad, and it was pretty bad. But what I mean by tertiary is that if it was just a fight over stupid stuff like that, or just an issue of facebook privacy I could fix that. I could make sure to always log out, or to change how I talk to people.
It's tertiary because it's fixable if I want to fix it. The real issue now is that I've gotten to the point where I don't want to fix it anymore. Edit: it's a bit more than that too, it's all the little things added up to the point that, while I care for her, I no longer feel like we're in love, and no longer want to have a physical relationship with her.
Counselling would have been good a few years ago I think. I think the problem for me right now is that I don't want to fix things, I think I'm just ready to move on. But I'm freaking terrified of it or how to do it. Like I said, I objectively think she's a good person, and I still care about her. I don't want to hurt her but I feel like I have to choose between being unhappy, or hurting her. It's a lose-lose for everyone.
And when I say I'm unhappy, I mean in my relationship. I'm happy at work, or the gym, or listening to music and hanging out with friends. But weekends and after work are times of anxiety, stress and depression.
Whether or not you want to continue with that situation is entirely up to you - nobody is perfect, and we all have issues to deal with. But it sounds an awful lot like you are having an anxiety reaction to what you know is an untenable long-term position, which is to suck it up and ride things out until the next incident.
Couples counseling is definitely something you should consider. Or, at the very least, some sort of counseling for yourself. As you and others have noted, perhaps there is something else outside of the relationship, that is also causing you some problems, and having a professional help you to identify and work through them may be a good thing. For one, the mid-life crisis is a cliche because it's a real thing, and people go through it in different ways.
What about setting boundaries on things she has a say about in the relationship?
Not hanging out with friends because there's someone there that's hot is not a valid thing she can veto, for instance. That's actually pretty typical of people in abusive relationships.
Honestly to me it looks like the issue is lack of communication. You want one thing, she wants another, you're rolling over because it's easier to deal with than telling her no. It doesn't really seem like you hate her, just unhappy with the way she treats you.
Seems like sitting down and talking would be the best course of action. Don't get angry, don't yell, just lay it out and talk about what is and isn't acceptable. This is where you need to be honest too, you need to say if something's bothering you and work towards fixing that. It's okay to change your stances.
If she gets defensive or angry that you're taking a stand on privacy and your own wants and desires, you'll have your answer. Compromise is okay, and so is not compromising on things that are important to you. You just have to decide if these are the things making you unhappy. There's no reason you can't make this work. If it makes you uncomfortable that she's digging through your post history then tell her that. Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't mean you deserve that kind of stress and anxiety that comes with someone pouring over every detail of your private correspondences and taking words out of context.
Also you should have a discussion about bringing up past arguments into the fold. Something having meaning or context 8 years ago, or even 1 week ago, is not important in the here and now, even if they are tangentially related. You can't have a discussion about that, that's just nonphysical abuse against you.
Controlling who you're friends with, how you're "allowed" to engage with your friends, manipulating you back into a relationship you knew you needed to get out of after you decided to break it off... fucking yuck. The good traits you're pointing out, suggesting that it's not her fault, and how it's really your problem... that all seems pretty textbook for domestic abuse victims. Manipulative, controlling, and abusive people all have good traits that their partner can point to as a reason they're wrong for leaving. Her good traits may be great, but they change absolutely nothing about the fact that she's exerting control over you instead of functionally, supportively loving you, and has already suffocated your relationship to death.
I'd say exactly what I have said to female friends in this same situation: get out asap, block all forms of communication, and find a therapist, possibly in addition to a support group for domestic abuse survivors.
But there's a kid to think of too.
So, do all of that, but first find a good divorce lawyer without leaving any trace of it where she'll find it. I dunno if that means a burner phone, second email account only accessed at work, or what. But you should get legal advice to have a plan in place for when you leave, because you likely need to rip the bandaid off quickly and cleanly to avoid getting dragged back in.
If you don't, then get out.
My only real advice is don't stay the course for another 10 years raising a kid in a loveless marriage until one of you finally decides to end it and you wish you had just dealt with it 10 years earlier.
I didn't know how to put this into words. This has been more or less how I've felt for a while now.
Ok thanks for the advice everyone. I'm actually a (former) divorce lawyer (I've happily moved to less depressing areas of practice), but I want us to resolve this amicably where we can continue to co-parent but live apart.
We've had the discussion multiple times about privacy, she always apologizes and feels super bad, but then 4-6 months later we're back at it again. But like I was saying before, it's really not the major issue, it's just the one that I think will eventually lead to separation if I don't end things on my own terms now.
Mostly I'm just terrified of the confrontation involved in ending it. I feel like if there ever is a direct conversation about it, I'll change my mind and say nothing's wrong and everything's good and just fake it.
This is part of what is influencing my decisions right now as well. I want this to have the most minimal impact on him as possible.
Before you talk divorce, and possibly cause a huge blow out, you might want to consult a lawyer. Often you can get a free consultation. You can do an entire divorce yourelf, especially if it's done amicably. However, things can get nasty and vindictive really quickly. I spent four years in court fighting my wife for custody of our son.
If I could do it all over again, here is what I would have done. You don't have to be divorced, or even be getting divorced to put a parenting plan in place. If you think that you could sit down with your wife and complete a parenting plan and lay out who gets custody, visitation, 50/50 split, whatever. If you can agree to a plan, and both of you sign it, you take it to your court house and file it, it's now an enforcable legal document, and no matter how the rest of the divorce goes, you have your parental rights spelled out, and going against the parenting plan is a big no no. Tell her whatever you want concerning this, but this it ultimately about protecting your rights as a Father. In a lot of states, you as a father are seen as kind of a leper in contrast to the Mother. Many fathers have a huge uphill battle, just to get equal treatment. (Not all states do this, so your mileage may vary, but in many of them, the mother can get full custody for no other reason than she is the mother, and you could end up fighting to get a couple days a month.)
If you don't do this, you need to know something. When you go to court, the court is going to want to put in what they call a "temporary" parenting plan, because it all needs to be spelled out. Here is the thing about that; unless you and your wife agree on something else, the "temporary" parenting plan will become the "permanent" plan, because the judge will not want to make a change to womething another judge put in place. In many states, the Mother gets custody by default. This may be what you want, but you should still know your options/rights.
P.S. Many courts will require that you take a parenting class, or a lawyer might request that the other parent take a parenting class, which if the court agrees, it's now a court mandated parenting class. This means if you can't complete the class, you fail the courts requirements and can lose access to you kid. You should be proactive and look into taking a parenting class now. Most of them will be one night a week for several weeks. I took one during my divorce, and I actually learned a lot of great stuff that helped me to be a better parent, but it also looked really good when my wife's lawyer tried to make me take one, and I told the court that I was already attending one, and had a completion date coming up before my next court date. The Judge did not make mine mandatory, pending my completion certificate, which was on file the next time I went to court.
I wish you the very best of luck in any case, and I hope everything can be done amicably.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
I realize that its not your fault and you shouldn't have to, but just telling her somthing like "hey, Im sorry I mentioned it to you, and we are working out some stuff and I just want you to know you didn't do anything at all to warrant what happened" maybe nice.
I didn't even think of this, I'm going to do it immediately.
Straight up, this shit is abusive. The fact that her controlling what you say seems a tertiary issue is gods damned horrifying. Leave. Run. Run far and fast. Get the best family law lawyer you know working for you yesterday and run to the other side of the city. I would normally say country but there is a kid involved.
Seriously think about this. She controls what you say. Your words are filtered by her for no reason other than she wants to be in control. This is not healthy. Checking through all of your messages to begin with is fucked. 14 years in is unheard of by me, and I have seen some realy fucked up relationships in my time.
Yes you love her, and I am certain she loves you in a way. All abusers have their form of love. Their form of love is toxic and selfish though. It destroys those that they trap completely and totally. It is built around making you think they are so great, and how lucky you are to have them.
I know this is incredibly scary. The fear is understandable. When everything is awful it becomes easy to go with the flow of awful. Change is scary cause it's unknown. Leaving will be good for you though. Go get counseling for yourself as well. This is ludicrously bad for you from what you have described, so I realy can't imagine what else is going on.
But think of the advice you would have given a client in your shoes. And at least in this case, you can keep one party in this matter reasonable and focused on an amicable separation.
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there is a reason that the outside observers in this thread are so shocked at the things you are saying.
I can go into that aspect of that one, at least, and you can see if it sounds familiar. But honestly, it sounds to me like you know what you want to do and you just need to strengthen your resolve to do it.
It's going to be like a thousand forklifts.
I agree with Ceres. Things will feel so much better when it's behind you
Never, ever listen to anyone who says you should stay together "for the sake of the children" because they either don't know what they are talking about or they're being willfully obtuse. If parents don't like one another, the best thing for the kids is for the parents to be separate.
This a thousand times. That will be a more protracted battle that I think you are well equipped for given your former speciality. Or at the least know who to put on retainer.
I would recommend more open dialogue - preferably with a couple's counselor - where these issues can be discussed and dealt with.
The control / checking up issues do seem serious, but it would depend on the context. I'm not trying to blame the victim here and it could easily be an abusive situation, but I don't think it's as clear cut this is an unresolvable abusive situation. If there were trust issues that arose in the past and OP took a 'nothing to hide - see for yourself' attitude, it could be understandable why their wife finds this behavior acceptable. It's not clear if the ongoing fight was over things OP has said / she discovered, or if the fight was over OP's wife checking up. I do have a bit of concern over OP suggesting as a solution 'well, I'll just log out of my accounts', because it's not addressing the problem itself.
I will tell OP though, that being unhappy is a big thing, but it's also not unusual. There are a combination of factors in play that cause a lot of problems in a marriage - a young child and the changes / stress parenthood brings, the 'seven year itch' of regret / what-if, etc. Postpartum depression can affect both men and women, and can continue for well over a year. The stress on a relationship that can result from postpartum depression can be even longer-lasting.
Another thing that I find quite concerning is that OP is being kicked out of the house for days at a time. When this is happening, the fight isn't getting resolved - it's just being put on a back burner until it comes up again. I don't know how OP and his wife fight, but leaving or being kicked out of the house is pretty damn serious.
I think that OP should seek both individual counseling and couple's counseling before making a final decision on leaving his wife. He needs to let his wife know how he feels, and do it in an environment where it will be more than a fight that just dredges up the past issues. I can almost guarantee OP that if he tells her how he feels and why he wants to leave on his own without some mediation, it's just going to turn into a fight over some specific occurrence in the past. Instead of addressing and resolving the elephant in the room, they are going to fight over his pretty friend or something else.
As I said, I do think OP should spend some time and effort trying to turn his marriage into a happy one with professional help. If he's spent years trying to figure out why he's unhappy on his own, it can't hurt to spend a bit more time and effort trying to make his marriage better. All marriages go through rough times, but if it's not transient it's time to get out. As others have said, having two happy separated parents is better for a child than two unhappy married parents.
*By which I mean people should go earlier in the relationship when obvious problems are cropping up not after years of failing to address the problem itself.
Okay, but nevertheless that is exactly what you are doing. There's really no good excuse for any of this when it's been addressed repeatedly and the perpetrator just doesn't give a shit, looks apologetic, waits for the dust to settle, and does it again. There's no good excuse for telling your partner they can't go to their friend's birthday party because the friend is too pretty.
No, fuck that. There isn't a reason good enough to excuse that kind of behavior, especially after repeated requests that the person stop doing it and show some respect for the OP's autonomy.
If the OP is out of fucks to give, I do not blame them even a little. And see, I'm actually not blaming them, rather than saying "I'm not trying to blame you, but here's why it's probably your fault."
Dysfunctional ones, by definition, don't work. Both parties are unhappy and something is clearly not right. Both parties desperately want some kind of change, and it is a decent enough idea to go to a third party to get that help.
An abusive relationship is a functional one. It's function is to make the abuser happy and placated. This will occasionally translate into happiness for the abused, but that is not the typical routine. The abused is usually kept just happy enough to make them stick to the abuser. Usually this involves a lot of the abuser mentioning all the sacrifices they make for the family.
There is a bit more diversity in relationships beyond this, but that would bog down the discussion here with irrelevant information. The key point is that you can't treat a dysfunctional marriage like a functional one. The marriage is quite clearly functional but the function is awful.
I'm spending the night here and am going to find somewhere to crash tomorrow night.
Thanks for all your love and support.
sorry you're going through this
but if it helps, it DOES get better
You'll get through this.
Good luck man I hope it all works out
No one should have to live like they're in prison
She was very reasonable and understanding. It would have been so much easier if she hated me.
It's going to be ok. You know what is best in your situation, and things will get better.
It might seem harder because she was reasonable and understanding, but the next sixteen years will be much better if you don't have each other. It'll be rough for a while, but before you know it everything will be back to a new normal.
But I wanted to offer to lend an ear in PMs if you need it, because when I was going through the aftermath and recovery from that relationship the people here were a big help. You're not alone and you don't have to be.
And yeah, it would be easier if she hated you, but if she's anything like my ex (who wasn't a bad person, but was most assuredly toxic and controlling in many ways), she's not going to let this be easy for you. It's important that during this time you have a support structure so that you don't crumble and go back to an abusive situation for lack of any other options.
Friends and hobbies are going to be critical. Cultivate both during this time because the more time you allow yourself to dwell on the situation, the worse it will be.