Plus she did bring up what is a completely valid point, which is that if my dad were to ever find out it might literally kill him, between his strong hatred of anything even vaguely adjacent to homosexuality and the fact that strong emotions give him seizures because of his brain damage
Finding out that I'm romantically involved with a person with a penis could honestly turn him into a vegetable
It is absolutely, positively 100% not your fault if your dad decides to hate himself to death.
Don't let him emotionally blackmail you out of making yourself happy.
Your family will try to control you for as long as it's possible to control you and that's not something you can let happen. Your mother is an abuser, at least in this moment (I don't know your mother of course) and your father is being used as living leverage over you and that's fucked up oh man I'm mad
There comes a point where what happens to your parents is not your fault and not your job to prevent, even if you love them
Wyborn on
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Speed, that genuinely sucks, I hope things get better.
In a slightly more positive note, did you know that Siri is a Boss?
Speed, I know at least a little bit of your pain man. The idea of my parents finding out that I'm dating a boy frankly terrifies me because of the ridiculous chain of possible repercussions. Not as ridiculous as yours sounds, mind you.
I know 100% my mum would NOT be ok with it in any way, and I still don't really know how dad would respond. What I do know is that mum's anxiety disorder would flare up something insane, and then her depression, and then dad's depression. And then mum would probably want to kick me out of their house and I honestly don't know what I'd do then.
And then everyone at church would find out and that's a whole other can of fish I don't even want to begin to think about.
But I just can't let this fear stop me from being who I am and finding out more about myself and being in a relationship that, so far, is making me incredibly happy. I can't let myself be beholden to my parents in regards to my personal life forever, and neither can you.
I know none of this is gonna help at all but I guess I just wanna give you some e-support from someone with a sorta similar situation.
and as much as i enjoy her company and have been coming to looking forward to our dates as the highlights of my weeks
for all i know we'd be breaking up of our own accord a month from now
as infuriating as it is it's just not worth it at this point to dump a ton of pressure and stress on my relationship with my family over this person
if she'd found out like, a year into us dating that would be a very different situation, but that's not what happened
what kills me is the way this is going to cast a pall over basically anyone i try to date in the immediate future
assuming i even feel like trying anytime soon, finding someone with as many common interests is gonna be really hard, and i'm constantly going to have a chip on my shoulder about how i'm getting railroaded into a Mother-Approved™ relationship and i'm gonna have to fight an impulse to resent someone for something that has nothing to do with them
and the best part is, this isn't even the first time this has happened! The only other girl I've dated was back in high school. We dated for about a year and a half and my mom gradually imposed more and more rules on how often we could see each other until it was so infrequently that we decided to just say to hell with it and broke up. She did that because she just straight up didn't like her!
On the plus side I finally got an apology about that fucking garbage today
so far I've already been caught crying once today and she's taken that as proof that I really am gay and I'm just lying to myself about it because no straight male should care this much about a romantic relationship with a person with a penis, the thought should revolt and disgust me! So that's super fun
Anyway this is rapidly spiralling off into something only tangentially related to transgender issues, there's a family thread and a dating thread for this kind of thing so this is the last I'll post about it here
Just gotta work up the nerve and figure out how to tell this girl "I really like you and being with you makes me super happy and also I don't want to see you anymore." My mom's concerned that, as a transgender person, she might be very susceptible to rejection, and wants me to lie about just being too busy to see her on any kind of regular basis, but fuuuuuuck that she deserves to hear the truth
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Your mom's consideration of her feelings is touching. :P
If I were you I would not give her the control. If your relationship only lasts another month, it's a month you have to get to know that something won't work because it won't, and to learn why and to grow with that information. But it could last a week or a year or longer, and it's time you'll be losing to your mother's bizarre lines in the sand.
The relationship might only last another month, but how long will the resentment toward your family over this last if you end it now because you were told to?
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I mean, it's your life and your decisions to make, and yeah you might just break up anyway, but I wouldn't recommend breaking up with someone over this. But I recognize that we all have our own shit to deal with, so just do whats best for you. But I really hope you decide not to placate your mother.
Continuing a relationship with this person is not you dumping pressure and stress on your relationship with your family. That is of their own making, by their own choice to value their prejudices over the happiness of their son. You deserve to have a happy relationship and you don't need to sabotage that for their sakes. You have a better view of this situation than me, and if you think the consequences your mother will impose outweigh this relationship then do what you have to do. But it really concerns me that you would view continuing this relationship as you somehow wronging them.
Just lie and pretend you broke up with her and date on the down-low.
Maybe this is awful advice, but I'm righteously pissed at your mom and think you could pull if it off. Just don't date on a consistent basis and whenever you do just do it under the guise of a gaming night or something.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Plus she did bring up what is a completely valid point, which is that if my dad were to ever find out it might literally kill him, between his strong hatred of anything even vaguely adjacent to homosexuality and the fact that strong emotions give him seizures because of his brain damage
Finding out that I'm romantically involved with a person with a penis could honestly turn him into a vegetable
No, that's not a valid point. " hey, your father is such a bigot he might die" does not win you first prize at the county fair.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2015
I would honestly say to tell her you will move out because you are a a God damned adult, not a child, and she can either treat you like an adult who is also her son or she can burn the bridge with her progeny forever. Because if she is willing to behave like this and pull out ultimatums about your life, she is not respecting you. It is no business of hers who you date.
Edit: aand speed, I know you have animosity towards me and by all means may hate my advice by association, but this is something super shitty no on should have to go through. You have my support, and if I can do anything to help, even if it's just to be an ear to vent at or to listen quietly, I will help anyway I can,
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Baidol Voprostein AvrahamThetherooTaya Zerofill EffefCrimson KingLalaboxMortal SkyASimPerson Sal Wiet Theidar Tynic Speed Racer Neotoma Goatmon ==>Larlar Munkus Beaver Day of the Bear miscellaneousinsanitySkull Man Delzhand Caulk Bite 6Somestickguy
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yeah as horrible as this situation you are in must be, your parents caused this mess, not you, and not your girlfriend. Maybe they should just have to deal with it. If your father might die of bigotry, then don't tell him. If he finds out because your mom told him because you wouldn't break up with her, then again, that is on your mother, not you.
Neco on
+3
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Plus she did bring up what is a completely valid point, which is that if my dad were to ever find out it might literally kill him, between his strong hatred of anything even vaguely adjacent to homosexuality and the fact that strong emotions give him seizures because of his brain damage
Finding out that I'm romantically involved with a person with a penis could honestly turn him into a vegetable
It is absolutely, positively 100% not your fault if your dad decides to hate himself to death.
Don't let him emotionally blackmail you out of making yourself happy.
Almost reminds me of Samson and Son, where if the kids would do things he disapproved of he would feign a heart attack to try and manipulate them,
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
If she really feels bad about sabotaging that previous relationship, point out she's doing the exact same thing again for the exact same petty nonsense reasons.
I doubt she'll notice the hypocrisy but might as well try.
Stuff like this just pisses me off so goddamn much. Family is supposed to help you feel safe and comfortable! Family is supposed to be there for you no matter what! Family should be there to help you deal with problems like this, not create them. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I've gone through hard times in my life that I couldn't have gotten through without family. The idea of a family member intentionally ruining another family member's happiness for their own petty judgmental reasons just makes me FUCKING ANGRY.
And I don't have any advice for you Speed beyond this: Don't do anything that will make you feel worse than you already do. Do whatever's best for you. But don't feel bad about making whatever decision you have to make because it's not your fault.
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
Speed, I know at least a little bit of your pain man. The idea of my parents finding out that I'm dating a boy frankly terrifies me because of the ridiculous chain of possible repercussions. Not as ridiculous as yours sounds, mind you.
I know 100% my mum would NOT be ok with it in any way, and I still don't really know how dad would respond. What I do know is that mum's anxiety disorder would flare up something insane, and then her depression, and then dad's depression. And then mum would probably want to kick me out of their house and I honestly don't know what I'd do then.
And then everyone at church would find out and that's a whole other can of fish I don't even want to begin to think about.
But I just can't let this fear stop me from being who I am and finding out more about myself and being in a relationship that, so far, is making me incredibly happy. I can't let myself be beholden to my parents in regards to my personal life forever, and neither can you.
I know none of this is gonna help at all but I guess I just wanna give you some e-support from someone with a sorta similar situation.
In support of you here, dude, 100%. We will back you on this, even if someone needs to be in the room with you when you come out to your dad.
End of the day, and this might be controversial of me to say, the sad reality is that it's an individual's responsibility to care for their own mental health. Sure, community stuff absolutely helps - people being nice, supportive, doing the right thing - and is super important because it makes recovery easier (shoot, even possible in some cases), but ultimately the responsibility for being well lies with the individual.
If your coming out flares their mental health issues, that is NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Yes, it is a trigger. But people get help so that triggers don't knock them on their asses. Triggers will always happen - some are avoidable, some, realistically, aren't. And we as a community can try to reduce their prevalence, but 100% avoidance is nigh impossible. Consider that thoughts are triggers, too, and we don't teach people to avoid certain thoughts, we teach them how to deal with them when they pop up; treatment comes from having to reduce one's sensitivity to triggers, or to build tools in how to respond when a trigger appears.
As it is, it sounds like you have your own mental health to think about in the coming out process. Coming out might be GOOD for your mental health - why would yours come at the cost of others? It doesn't work that way. Do whatever is best for you in your context, but please do not take on more than is appropriate for you to take on.
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited May 2015
There's certainly something to be said for "easier said than done", though. Every individual has their own choices to make, and sometimes we all have to compromise our personal values in order to function in our respective environments - whether it's the preservation of our own safety or that of our mental health. It's shitty, but that's an aspect of being an adult, and we as adults all have different lines in the sand that we draw for ourselves. There's no ideal or perfect answer across everyone here, just what is or isn't going to work for you.
In some ways it's why neutral parties like trained clinicians are helpful, because they are taught to recognise and step back from their own "sand lines" better than friends and family may be. I've seen lots of friendship groups give advice and act with the best intentions, but not even realising that in doing so, they are pushing their own values into someone else's universe. And not always for the better, because the only one who knows your story 100% inside and out, including all micro- and macro-nuances, is you.
Like, I wasn't sure what my "five-year-plan" was gonna be.
But now I'm pretty convinced that my goal is "get a decent job in Arizona, get a nice financial buffer, then find a good job in Texas so I can rent an apartment with Speed and the both of us can get out from under our families."
Especially since I could see a similar thing happening to me if I had a transwoman girlfriend.
Like, not to the severity of Speed's situation. But it would definitely cause a lot of confusion and strain in my family and with...pretty much all of my relatives for the same reasons as it does for Speed.
Stilts on
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
Speed, I haven't posted in here lately but Im keeping my fingers crossed that things will work out for you.
It's times like this that I'm glad I can say things to my mother like "and I'm dealing with some other things which I'm not comfortable discussing with you" and she accepts that and doesn't badger me about it.
Posts
It's not really hyperbole
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Don't let him emotionally blackmail you out of making yourself happy.
There comes a point where what happens to your parents is not your fault and not your job to prevent, even if you love them
In a slightly more positive note, did you know that Siri is a Boss?
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/05/22/comment-7-times-siri-understood-gender-identity-better-most-humans
Satans..... hints.....
I know 100% my mum would NOT be ok with it in any way, and I still don't really know how dad would respond. What I do know is that mum's anxiety disorder would flare up something insane, and then her depression, and then dad's depression. And then mum would probably want to kick me out of their house and I honestly don't know what I'd do then.
And then everyone at church would find out and that's a whole other can of fish I don't even want to begin to think about.
But I just can't let this fear stop me from being who I am and finding out more about myself and being in a relationship that, so far, is making me incredibly happy. I can't let myself be beholden to my parents in regards to my personal life forever, and neither can you.
I know none of this is gonna help at all but I guess I just wanna give you some e-support from someone with a sorta similar situation.
yes
I know
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
I feel like throwing a fucking car at a GOP office
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Grand Old Piano
how she managed to time this bullshit just as i was starting to really fall for this girl
if this had happened a week ago i would've still been mad on the principle of the thing but i wouldn't be nearly as broken up about it
http://www.audioentropy.com/
But that won't
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
strike a chord with them.
i've only been seeing this girl for about a month
and as much as i enjoy her company and have been coming to looking forward to our dates as the highlights of my weeks
for all i know we'd be breaking up of our own accord a month from now
as infuriating as it is it's just not worth it at this point to dump a ton of pressure and stress on my relationship with my family over this person
if she'd found out like, a year into us dating that would be a very different situation, but that's not what happened
what kills me is the way this is going to cast a pall over basically anyone i try to date in the immediate future
assuming i even feel like trying anytime soon, finding someone with as many common interests is gonna be really hard, and i'm constantly going to have a chip on my shoulder about how i'm getting railroaded into a Mother-Approved™ relationship and i'm gonna have to fight an impulse to resent someone for something that has nothing to do with them
and the best part is, this isn't even the first time this has happened! The only other girl I've dated was back in high school. We dated for about a year and a half and my mom gradually imposed more and more rules on how often we could see each other until it was so infrequently that we decided to just say to hell with it and broke up. She did that because she just straight up didn't like her!
On the plus side I finally got an apology about that fucking garbage today
so far I've already been caught crying once today and she's taken that as proof that I really am gay and I'm just lying to myself about it because no straight male should care this much about a romantic relationship with a person with a penis, the thought should revolt and disgust me! So that's super fun
Anyway this is rapidly spiralling off into something only tangentially related to transgender issues, there's a family thread and a dating thread for this kind of thing so this is the last I'll post about it here
Just gotta work up the nerve and figure out how to tell this girl "I really like you and being with you makes me super happy and also I don't want to see you anymore." My mom's concerned that, as a transgender person, she might be very susceptible to rejection, and wants me to lie about just being too busy to see her on any kind of regular basis, but fuuuuuuck that she deserves to hear the truth
http://www.audioentropy.com/
for real though
don't let your mom do this to you
If I were you I would not give her the control. If your relationship only lasts another month, it's a month you have to get to know that something won't work because it won't, and to learn why and to grow with that information. But it could last a week or a year or longer, and it's time you'll be losing to your mother's bizarre lines in the sand.
The relationship might only last another month, but how long will the resentment toward your family over this last if you end it now because you were told to?
And I also kind of want to punch your mom, is that okay?
Maybe this is awful advice, but I'm righteously pissed at your mom and think you could pull if it off. Just don't date on a consistent basis and whenever you do just do it under the guise of a gaming night or something.
No, that's not a valid point. " hey, your father is such a bigot he might die" does not win you first prize at the county fair.
Edit: aand speed, I know you have animosity towards me and by all means may hate my advice by association, but this is something super shitty no on should have to go through. You have my support, and if I can do anything to help, even if it's just to be an ear to vent at or to listen quietly, I will help anyway I can,
or, don't do this
Rorus, I love you, but I honestly think that this is harmful advice and would only make her bigoted feeling feel validated.
Almost reminds me of Samson and Son, where if the kids would do things he disapproved of he would feign a heart attack to try and manipulate them,
because she was paying for car stuff
I have zero guilt over it
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
This is bad advice.
Don't let sitcoms fool you, what would follow could in no way be described as zany
Edit: Forgot to hit refresh and didn't realize people had already said as much. Didn't mean to dogpile on you
I hear you
But I don't have the fortitude to fight back about this
I'm not strong enough to weather the stress of this situation long-term, regardless of whose fault it is
In principle yeah fuck her this is awful I should assert my right to etc etc
In reality it's already all I can do to keep myself together
http://www.audioentropy.com/
*hugs*
I don't disagree, but even just bringing it up is putting a lot of pressure on her for how early in the relationship this is
I mean, definitely be as honest with her as you can about it, but laying it all out and then asking 'so, what do you want to do' is pretty dang heavy
I doubt she'll notice the hypocrisy but might as well try.
And I don't have any advice for you Speed beyond this: Don't do anything that will make you feel worse than you already do. Do whatever's best for you. But don't feel bad about making whatever decision you have to make because it's not your fault.
In support of you here, dude, 100%. We will back you on this, even if someone needs to be in the room with you when you come out to your dad.
End of the day, and this might be controversial of me to say, the sad reality is that it's an individual's responsibility to care for their own mental health. Sure, community stuff absolutely helps - people being nice, supportive, doing the right thing - and is super important because it makes recovery easier (shoot, even possible in some cases), but ultimately the responsibility for being well lies with the individual.
If your coming out flares their mental health issues, that is NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Yes, it is a trigger. But people get help so that triggers don't knock them on their asses. Triggers will always happen - some are avoidable, some, realistically, aren't. And we as a community can try to reduce their prevalence, but 100% avoidance is nigh impossible. Consider that thoughts are triggers, too, and we don't teach people to avoid certain thoughts, we teach them how to deal with them when they pop up; treatment comes from having to reduce one's sensitivity to triggers, or to build tools in how to respond when a trigger appears.
As it is, it sounds like you have your own mental health to think about in the coming out process. Coming out might be GOOD for your mental health - why would yours come at the cost of others? It doesn't work that way. Do whatever is best for you in your context, but please do not take on more than is appropriate for you to take on.
In some ways it's why neutral parties like trained clinicians are helpful, because they are taught to recognise and step back from their own "sand lines" better than friends and family may be. I've seen lots of friendship groups give advice and act with the best intentions, but not even realising that in doing so, they are pushing their own values into someone else's universe. And not always for the better, because the only one who knows your story 100% inside and out, including all micro- and macro-nuances, is you.
Godammit
Godammit
Like, I wasn't sure what my "five-year-plan" was gonna be.
But now I'm pretty convinced that my goal is "get a decent job in Arizona, get a nice financial buffer, then find a good job in Texas so I can rent an apartment with Speed and the both of us can get out from under our families."
Like, not to the severity of Speed's situation. But it would definitely cause a lot of confusion and strain in my family and with...pretty much all of my relatives for the same reasons as it does for Speed.