Actually, here's a question - have anyone's seer results come up consistently random, or are the various Mad Seers getting results that are the opposite of what death has been revealing?
So, anyone up for Cythraul, or are we going to let the Mafia distract us again?
Heffling you sound like me yesterday. I wanted to vote TRV for accountability while you didn't, and now you expect people to follow you into doing the exact same thing? Seriously?
I'm torn between voting you or Gizzy: hunch or mechanics check.
Have you only seered two people in the game so far?
Only 2 people successfully. One night I forgot to place orders (and vote, working in the middle of nowhere does that sometimes), one seer result the guy died and another the seer result came back with nothing at all. So really I don't know how the mechanic works (or better, doesn't work).
So, anyone up for Cythraul, or are we going to let the Mafia distract us again?
Heffling you sound like me yesterday. I wanted to vote TRV for accountability while you didn't, and now you expect people to follow you into doing the exact same thing? Seriously?
I'm torn between voting you or Gizzy: hunch or mechanics check.
So you're saying you are torn between voting for me, or for the person that was literally defending you as a villager yesterday?
Actually, here's a question - have anyone's seer results come up consistently random, or are the various Mad Seers getting results that are the opposite of what death has been revealing?
Ebum/my results seem to have been alternating between correct and opposite. I say seems to because there is a hole in the data one night where ebum got no results. If it really is alternating and not something else controlling results, TheBrayster should end up mafia.
Cythraul was lying and is mafia
Cythraul was telling the truth and his seering ability is entirely random
Cythraul was telling the truth, his seering ability is backwards, and Gizzy is mafia
I'm leaning towards believing #2 (of course over #3, but also over #1) because it felt genuine when he said he seered me. I guess it's possible that was some bold mafia moves to get on the vig's good side .. but seems too risky putting himself on the line that early in the game to be seered by a normal seer.
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
Island Name: Felinefine
Have you only seered two people in the game so far?
Only 2 people successfully. One night I forgot to place orders (and vote, working in the middle of nowhere does that sometimes), one seer result the guy died and another the seer result came back with nothing at all. So really I don't know how the mechanic works (or better, doesn't work).
If the guy died you'd still know if the result was accurate or not, so between that, Gizzy, and TRV, you should have at least some idea of how it works.
Actually, here's a question - have anyone's seer results come up consistently random, or are the various Mad Seers getting results that are the opposite of what death has been revealing?
Ebum/my results seem to have been alternating between correct and opposite. I say seems to because there is a hole in the data one night where ebum got no results. If it really is alternating and not something else controlling results, TheBrayster should end up mafia.
Hmm, hadn't even thought of that. One of my results is still alive so I can't confirm that for sure (plus I missed a night), and the two interesting results I have are on alternating nights so I can't glean anything from them. I'll go with you for now and vote TheBrayster until anyone comes up with anything better.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
I feel like we've been going around in circles these past couple of days testing unreliable seer results. I think instead I'd rather look at Dragon who has been pretty quiet.
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
Island Name: Felinefine
Also as a side note, I've been seering people, but I've not had any results in one way or the other. I could be a unlucky normal seer, or a "naive" seer (See everyone as village) I'll keep on seering, for all the good that's been doing me.
FTC: honk.
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
I think I will move onto Dragon6860, this doesnt seem like a good idea and I do not like Dragon's vote record.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
The eerie silence that had settled over the institute was broken that morning as the SWAT van crawled up to the entrance.
"No movement inside sir. No contacts either." relayed the spotter.
"Right. All teams move in. Let's get this done."
Torchlight illuminates room after room inside the sanitarium.
"Two more dead confirmed. Name tags reveal themselves to be Dragon6860 and The Brayster.
Seems to have been a massive altercation here, and these two tore themselves apart."
"That makes 18 confirmed dead. One officer down, one missing. What happened here?"
"Don't know sir. What of the remaining patients?"
"Lead them all to the van. We'll get a psych profile on each of them, and bring them back once the place has been cleaned up."
As the patients are led out, there's a knowing wink or two shared between a couple, and more than a few crazed grins.
Some years later:
Disc's Happy Holiday Homes has been refurbished since the incident.
Thanks to some helpful donations from anonymous benefactors, the institute has been refitted with state of the art equipment. Freshly padded cells, automated doors and locks, pneumatic drug delivery chutes, and even butlers willing to take on basic faculties for even the most messy eater.
Similar improvements have taken place for recovering patients as well.
A pool has been put in, along with a massage parlor and small well-groomed townhouses for those who are well enough to experience a bit of freedom and responsibility.
A tennis competition runs every Tuesday, and Friday nights a bus runs patients from the accommodation here into town and back for a fun night of revelry and shopping.
The institute's remediation record has never looked better either.
Several of its previous patients are now taking up residence as caretakers and psychiatrists, trying to assist those who need it most.
And in the courtyard stands what remains of our most illustrious member. Obifett has sadly left us now, but was the guiding force behind our center's focus on excellent care.
His bust shall stand forever in the courtyard as a testament to his foresight and sage advice.
Still, some patients are sadly beyond help.
Please stay away from patient 0. Heffling's family was generous enough to leave us a hearty donation, but he is quite quite mad and must be restrained at all times for the safety of himself and others.
The Dead: Dragon6860 - Mad Seer - Soporific - Didn't have as many friends as he thought The Brayster - Mad Seer - Childishness - Blew raspberries at the wrong people
The Interned: JayKaos - Mad Seer - Insane Cythraul - Mad Seer - Mentally Unstable Patient Zero aka Heffling - Good Cop
The Victorious: Void Slayer - Nightwatchman - Devil's Advocate Gizzy - Premeditator - Navelgazer JFP - The Diversion - Skittish @enlightenedbum & JPants - The Muscle - Channeler
And Obifett
Final Thoughts:
Originally this idea came about by thinking how could slightly tweak the vanilla game to make vanillagers more interesting.
So I made everyone seers, and made the seer a seer seer. I figured that the bad info being given out by the many seers could be sorted by the seer seer, and effectively you'd go back to the standard game of vig, guard and seer starting a network.
Two things happened though.
First, the network never really got together enough to filter the information Sir Fab was getting.
And second, the village never infodumped into thread once Sir Fab died.
So TRV never got the voting histories (as far as I know) that he would've needed to start filtering which calls were good and which were bad.
It also didn't help that a lot of the true seers were killed day 1.
The Telepathic GG was sending true seeing results to Nion.
The Vigilant Wash was Action seeing.
Mr T was a just a vanilla seer.
And Phyphor was going to be a PM thread seer. Which meant I was going to be a mean genie and answer one question truthfully* in a PM chain each day, but then whoever had this power could see all the questions and answers from the people the days before.
Which leads to the other thing:
One of the mechanics in this game, the rotation of seer powers, never worked after day 1.
There was a Child power in play up until the last day, and that true saw the owner of the power to the target of the power (whilst also providing random results to the owner of the power). But because that never rotated, it only saw kime and The Brayster (the last day to himself).
Still, the village could have almost ignored all this nonsense and just gone without seers entirely, and that would have just left them without a network, but they didn't manage to get a mafia in the top 2 of the vote past day 1. Not sure if that was just bad luck or compounded by the mechanics.
The disease mechanic:
Each mad seer starts with a psychological affliction that can target one person per day. These powers mostly see other players in various ways.
Mafia can go insane and lose their mafia power to take on their cover role affliction.
Each disease has an infection rating.
If a person uses a disease with a higher infection rating to see a person with a lower infection rating, then these two people will swap diseases after seeing happens.
If there are more than one set of swaps possible, the one with the highest amount of swapping takes place.
Mafia can opt to come back from insanity, but this will only remove their cover role affliction from the rotating powers.
List of Diseases:
Insanity: Infection rating 2. - The owner will see the opposite of the target's alignment.
Sophoric: Infection rating 4. - The owner will see the target as village regardless of the target's alignment.
Paranoia: : Infection rating 5. - The owner will see the target as village mafia of the target's alignment.
Oblivious: Infection rating 6. - The owner will see nothing regardless of target.
Sanity: Infection rating 7. - The owner will see the target's alignment correctly.
Telepathic (Random): Infection rating 9. - The owner will see a random alignment regardless of the target's alignment. This will then be swapped with the whole result from the other Telepathic player. If the other Telepathic player is dead, a random player will receive the Telepath's result as well as their own, and the Telepath will see the random player's seeing result.
Dreamwalker: Infection rating 10. - The owner will be added to a PM chain created from the records of the previous owners of this power. They will then be able to ask a question of the host (not alignment based) which the host will answer truthfully and unhelpfully.
Hat wearer: Infection rating 11. - The owner will see the hat of the first village special to die. They will then put it on and gain their powers. This power will then be given the lowest infection rating as we don't want the seeing target of a new village special to become the new village special.
Pariah complex: Infection rating 12. - The owner will see when their target is about to die. They will then intervene, killing themselves and the attacker. This does not affect the vote (and in fact triggered fluff when Buddha73's target Day 1 was GG).
Plastic Knife: Infection rating 13. - The owner will first check infection ratings with his target. If the target will not or cannot take the knife, the owner will see the target by killing them with a black kill. If the owner asks whether they are the SK to the host, the host will ask them whether they think they are. If yes, they become an SK. If no, they are forced to pass the knife on the next night, unless unable I guess (rotation didn't really work).
Childishness: Infection rating 16. - The owner will see the target randomly. The target will see the owner truthfully.
Split Personality: Infection rating 17. - The owner will see the target randomly.
Clown: Infection rating 18. - The owner will see the target randomly. The target will see the owner randomly.
Vigiliant: Infection rating 19. - Action seer. The mafia group kill will not be seen attached to a player, but will trigger fluff in the seeing.
Mentally Unstable: Infection rating 20. - The owner will see the target's alignment truthfully 25% of the time and falsely 75% of the time.
Telepathic (True): Infection rating 21. - The owner will see the target's alignment truthfully. This will then be swapped with the whole result from the other Telepathic player. If the other Telepathic player is dead, a random player will receive the Telepath's result as well as their own, and the Telepath will see the random player's seeing result.
Micromanager: Infection rating 22. - The owner will busdrive the target onto the previous night's target of this power. This is a two-way busdrive, and there will be specific seeing results informing them that they saw their target as out of place and that they shifted players to put them into the correct place.
Mafia cover role Diseases
Daydreamer: Infection rating 1. - Each day the owner will see a really bad picture of the target, as drawn by the host in www.sketchtoy.com
Devil's advocate: Infection rating 3. - The owner will randomly see the target's alignment with a probability of a 'mafia' result equaling the current mafia to player count ratio. That is, there is precisely the same probability that the result would be mafia as if the roles were now randomised.
Navelgazer: Infection rating 8. - The owner will truthfully see their own alignment, regardless of their target. I.e Disc sees Disc as host.
Channeler: Infection rating 14. - The owner will see the target's seeing results.
Skittish: Infection rating 15. - The owner will see anyone they voted for the previous day as mafia, regardless of their alignment. Otherwise they will see their target as village.
Roles: Good Cop - Guard Bad Cop - Vig Pyschiatrist - Seer Seer: The seer seer can see a person to get a list of all the diseases they have ever contracted, or they can see a disease to determine its mechanical effect and get a list of all possible sufferers.
And the Mad Seers who started with a disease (above).
Mafia roles (sacrificed if they want their diseases to actually take effect and rotate. As diseases did not rotate much all game, this meant these roles were retained): Pyschologist: Pick a player or a disease. Learn the mechanical effect of the disease in that person or that disease.
Premeditator: Passive. See the names of all diseases that the mafia would have contracted last night or did contract last night (but not what they are or who sent them)
The Muscle: Ensure that the target loses their disease by increasing their disease value to max, or decreasing their disease value to minimum. This power never worked.
Nightwatchman: Ensure that the target does not lose their disease. This killed Phyphor Night 1, as the Plastic Knife could not be passed to him.
The Diversion: Prevent the target from receiving seeing results. This was parked on Cythraul late game.
I don't know about everyone else - but this game was amusing for me. If everyone started info dumping in the thread I prob would have been caught because I planned on making stuff up - "I seered TRV and the host gave me this 1-800 number to call - do you think this automated message has a clue!?"
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
Island Name: Felinefine
I don't think void slayer ever registered to join so he was just kind of swinging in the dark all game.
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
Island Name: Felinefine
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I have to think there is a reason we see unreliable seers even less than thralls and millers. Thralls and millers even if they are in the game often are completely invisible to mechanics, whereas unreliable seers always add confusion. Even if they know they are false, it drowns out the real seer.
Yes I would like to apologize to the rest of the mafia for being quite uninvolved in the game, sorry about that.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
So, first off, thanks for running discrider! It was fun and the narrations were good!
I like the idea of the mechanics. I think that's something interesting to play with in future games. However, I think you vastly underestimated the amount of noise and confusion this would generate, as well as the raw complexity, work, and time it would take to figure everything out. I think actually getting any useful data from the seers is much, much harder than you imagine given the public information we had. Or even given what TRV could have.
If the rotation mechanic had worked, then TRV could've seen mafia by noticing that their diseases didn't ever change. Assuming the mafia didn't go insane of course.
Posts
Not my fault the vote closes at ungodly hours here
I actually thought you were teasing people with both "two" and "quite".
Guess not then. Sorry.
Heffling you sound like me yesterday. I wanted to vote TRV for accountability while you didn't, and now you expect people to follow you into doing the exact same thing? Seriously?
I'm torn between voting you or Gizzy: hunch or mechanics check.
Confusion will be my epitaph
Haha its all cool, I was just up late being Batman and didn't even realize I made the mistake.
Only 2 people successfully. One night I forgot to place orders (and vote, working in the middle of nowhere does that sometimes), one seer result the guy died and another the seer result came back with nothing at all. So really I don't know how the mechanic works (or better, doesn't work).
Confusion will be my epitaph
So you're saying you are torn between voting for me, or for the person that was literally defending you as a villager yesterday?
Confusion will be my epitaph
Ebum/my results seem to have been alternating between correct and opposite. I say seems to because there is a hole in the data one night where ebum got no results. If it really is alternating and not something else controlling results, TheBrayster should end up mafia.
I'm leaning towards believing #2 (of course over #3, but also over #1) because it felt genuine when he said he seered me. I guess it's possible that was some bold mafia moves to get on the vig's good side .. but seems too risky putting himself on the line that early in the game to be seered by a normal seer.
Island Name: Felinefine
If the guy died you'd still know if the result was accurate or not, so between that, Gizzy, and TRV, you should have at least some idea of how it works.
Hmm, hadn't even thought of that. One of my results is still alive so I can't confirm that for sure (plus I missed a night), and the two interesting results I have are on alternating nights so I can't glean anything from them. I'll go with you for now and vote TheBrayster until anyone comes up with anything better.
TheBrayster
Island Name: Felinefine
Confusion will be my epitaph
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
FTC: HONK.
PAX Prime 2014 Resistance Tournament Winner
Fyi I'm not aginst the Breyster vote, just think everyone voting the same is not good for the vote record.
Sure, kill me, I'm interested to see what I actually come up as.
PSN: TheBrayster_92
PSN: TheBrayster_92
PSN: TheBrayster_92
The eerie silence that had settled over the institute was broken that morning as the SWAT van crawled up to the entrance.
"No movement inside sir. No contacts either." relayed the spotter.
"Right. All teams move in. Let's get this done."
Torchlight illuminates room after room inside the sanitarium.
"Two more dead confirmed. Name tags reveal themselves to be Dragon6860 and The Brayster.
Seems to have been a massive altercation here, and these two tore themselves apart."
"That makes 18 confirmed dead. One officer down, one missing. What happened here?"
"Don't know sir. What of the remaining patients?"
"Lead them all to the van. We'll get a psych profile on each of them, and bring them back once the place has been cleaned up."
As the patients are led out, there's a knowing wink or two shared between a couple, and more than a few crazed grins.
Some years later:
Disc's Happy Holiday Homes has been refurbished since the incident.
Thanks to some helpful donations from anonymous benefactors, the institute has been refitted with state of the art equipment. Freshly padded cells, automated doors and locks, pneumatic drug delivery chutes, and even butlers willing to take on basic faculties for even the most messy eater.
Similar improvements have taken place for recovering patients as well.
A pool has been put in, along with a massage parlor and small well-groomed townhouses for those who are well enough to experience a bit of freedom and responsibility.
A tennis competition runs every Tuesday, and Friday nights a bus runs patients from the accommodation here into town and back for a fun night of revelry and shopping.
The institute's remediation record has never looked better either.
Several of its previous patients are now taking up residence as caretakers and psychiatrists, trying to assist those who need it most.
And in the courtyard stands what remains of our most illustrious member.
Obifett has sadly left us now, but was the guiding force behind our center's focus on excellent care.
His bust shall stand forever in the courtyard as a testament to his foresight and sage advice.
Still, some patients are sadly beyond help.
Please stay away from patient 0.
Heffling's family was generous enough to leave us a hearty donation, but he is quite quite mad and must be restrained at all times for the safety of himself and others.
The Dead:
Dragon6860 - Mad Seer - Soporific - Didn't have as many friends as he thought
The Brayster - Mad Seer - Childishness - Blew raspberries at the wrong people
The Interned:
JayKaos - Mad Seer - Insane
Cythraul - Mad Seer - Mentally Unstable
Patient Zero aka Heffling - Good Cop
The Victorious:
Void Slayer - Nightwatchman - Devil's Advocate
Gizzy - Premeditator - Navelgazer
JFP - The Diversion - Skittish
@enlightenedbum & JPants - The Muscle - Channeler
And Obifett
Originally this idea came about by thinking how could slightly tweak the vanilla game to make vanillagers more interesting.
So I made everyone seers, and made the seer a seer seer. I figured that the bad info being given out by the many seers could be sorted by the seer seer, and effectively you'd go back to the standard game of vig, guard and seer starting a network.
Two things happened though.
First, the network never really got together enough to filter the information Sir Fab was getting.
And second, the village never infodumped into thread once Sir Fab died.
So TRV never got the voting histories (as far as I know) that he would've needed to start filtering which calls were good and which were bad.
It also didn't help that a lot of the true seers were killed day 1.
The Telepathic GG was sending true seeing results to Nion.
The Vigilant Wash was Action seeing.
Mr T was a just a vanilla seer.
And Phyphor was going to be a PM thread seer. Which meant I was going to be a mean genie and answer one question truthfully* in a PM chain each day, but then whoever had this power could see all the questions and answers from the people the days before.
Which leads to the other thing:
One of the mechanics in this game, the rotation of seer powers, never worked after day 1.
There was a Child power in play up until the last day, and that true saw the owner of the power to the target of the power (whilst also providing random results to the owner of the power). But because that never rotated, it only saw kime and The Brayster (the last day to himself).
Still, the village could have almost ignored all this nonsense and just gone without seers entirely, and that would have just left them without a network, but they didn't manage to get a mafia in the top 2 of the vote past day 1. Not sure if that was just bad luck or compounded by the mechanics.
Speaking of, mechanics and roles to follow.
Each mad seer starts with a psychological affliction that can target one person per day. These powers mostly see other players in various ways.
Mafia can go insane and lose their mafia power to take on their cover role affliction.
Each disease has an infection rating.
If a person uses a disease with a higher infection rating to see a person with a lower infection rating, then these two people will swap diseases after seeing happens.
If there are more than one set of swaps possible, the one with the highest amount of swapping takes place.
Mafia can opt to come back from insanity, but this will only remove their cover role affliction from the rotating powers.
List of Diseases:
Sophoric: Infection rating 4. - The owner will see the target as village regardless of the target's alignment.
Paranoia: : Infection rating 5. - The owner will see the target as village mafia of the target's alignment.
Oblivious: Infection rating 6. - The owner will see nothing regardless of target.
Sanity: Infection rating 7. - The owner will see the target's alignment correctly.
Telepathic (Random): Infection rating 9. - The owner will see a random alignment regardless of the target's alignment. This will then be swapped with the whole result from the other Telepathic player. If the other Telepathic player is dead, a random player will receive the Telepath's result as well as their own, and the Telepath will see the random player's seeing result.
Dreamwalker: Infection rating 10. - The owner will be added to a PM chain created from the records of the previous owners of this power. They will then be able to ask a question of the host (not alignment based) which the host will answer truthfully and unhelpfully.
Hat wearer: Infection rating 11. - The owner will see the hat of the first village special to die. They will then put it on and gain their powers. This power will then be given the lowest infection rating as we don't want the seeing target of a new village special to become the new village special.
Pariah complex: Infection rating 12. - The owner will see when their target is about to die. They will then intervene, killing themselves and the attacker. This does not affect the vote (and in fact triggered fluff when Buddha73's target Day 1 was GG).
Plastic Knife: Infection rating 13. - The owner will first check infection ratings with his target. If the target will not or cannot take the knife, the owner will see the target by killing them with a black kill. If the owner asks whether they are the SK to the host, the host will ask them whether they think they are. If yes, they become an SK. If no, they are forced to pass the knife on the next night, unless unable I guess (rotation didn't really work).
Childishness: Infection rating 16. - The owner will see the target randomly. The target will see the owner truthfully.
Split Personality: Infection rating 17. - The owner will see the target randomly.
Clown: Infection rating 18. - The owner will see the target randomly. The target will see the owner randomly.
Vigiliant: Infection rating 19. - Action seer. The mafia group kill will not be seen attached to a player, but will trigger fluff in the seeing.
Mentally Unstable: Infection rating 20. - The owner will see the target's alignment truthfully 25% of the time and falsely 75% of the time.
Telepathic (True): Infection rating 21. - The owner will see the target's alignment truthfully. This will then be swapped with the whole result from the other Telepathic player. If the other Telepathic player is dead, a random player will receive the Telepath's result as well as their own, and the Telepath will see the random player's seeing result.
Micromanager: Infection rating 22. - The owner will busdrive the target onto the previous night's target of this power. This is a two-way busdrive, and there will be specific seeing results informing them that they saw their target as out of place and that they shifted players to put them into the correct place.
Mafia cover role Diseases
Devil's advocate: Infection rating 3. - The owner will randomly see the target's alignment with a probability of a 'mafia' result equaling the current mafia to player count ratio. That is, there is precisely the same probability that the result would be mafia as if the roles were now randomised.
Navelgazer: Infection rating 8. - The owner will truthfully see their own alignment, regardless of their target. I.e Disc sees Disc as host.
Channeler: Infection rating 14. - The owner will see the target's seeing results.
Skittish: Infection rating 15. - The owner will see anyone they voted for the previous day as mafia, regardless of their alignment. Otherwise they will see their target as village.
Good Cop - Guard
Bad Cop - Vig
Pyschiatrist - Seer Seer: The seer seer can see a person to get a list of all the diseases they have ever contracted, or they can see a disease to determine its mechanical effect and get a list of all possible sufferers.
And the Mad Seers who started with a disease (above).
Mafia roles (sacrificed if they want their diseases to actually take effect and rotate. As diseases did not rotate much all game, this meant these roles were retained):
Pyschologist: Pick a player or a disease. Learn the mechanical effect of the disease in that person or that disease.
Premeditator: Passive. See the names of all diseases that the mafia would have contracted last night or did contract last night (but not what they are or who sent them)
The Muscle: Ensure that the target loses their disease by increasing their disease value to max, or decreasing their disease value to minimum. This power never worked.
Nightwatchman: Ensure that the target does not lose their disease. This killed Phyphor Night 1, as the Plastic Knife could not be passed to him.
The Diversion: Prevent the target from receiving seeing results. This was parked on Cythraul late game.
Island Name: Felinefine
Http://thelaziestmafia.proboards.com
I don't think void slayer ever registered to join so he was just kind of swinging in the dark all game.
Island Name: Felinefine
Also, I'm terrible at this game.
I like the idea of the mechanics. I think that's something interesting to play with in future games. However, I think you vastly underestimated the amount of noise and confusion this would generate, as well as the raw complexity, work, and time it would take to figure everything out. I think actually getting any useful data from the seers is much, much harder than you imagine given the public information we had. Or even given what TRV could have.
Still though, crazy games are fun
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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