Between this and Bioshock Infinite, my appreciation for anachronistic music has grown considerably.
I really hope we get more of that in Season 2.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
+6
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WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
I must've missed something. (Whole season semi-spoilers)
Why do people say Ford was the one who drove Maeve to do that? Didn't Sylvester (and Bernard? I think?) say that Arnold was the one who did it? Or are we accepting the assumption that Ford logged in under Arnold's name to do shit?
But then, as Bernard claims, if Arnold and not Ford was the one who pushed the Reveries into production one way or the other, why can't he somehow be the one tweaking Maeve?
Arnold has been dead for decades. His plans all stopped there. It was all Ford since the show started.
Yes
Ford activated the reveries again, because he felt that the hosts would need to be freed before the park could be taken over by Charlotte. He had this plan going all along, but I think the urgency of the situation might have led to him speeding it up a bit
The whole AI/consciousness stuff is right up my alley, but I don't like this show as much as I want to like it. I think ex machina did this plot better and in way less time.
I think I ruined some of this show for myself by reading theories on reddit as such. The timeline, William/MIB, and Bernard twists were genuinely clever and I didn't get to enjoy them completely fresh. As fandom always gets to the truth eventually I was sort of spoiled for most of the surprises. I think the show dragged a bit as it wound its way towards plot points we all saw coming early on. That said, the last ep had some great surprises in it and that plus the stellar acting and compelling characters throughout sold me on a season 2.
I had a hard time investing in many of the Host plotlines since we knew they were largely scripted and thus death/danger were sort of meaningless.
Also I saw the non-awakened hosts as morally of no more consequence than toasters, so their suffering didn't really exist for me: there's noone there to do any suffering.
Maeve's storyline annoyed me. It seemed way too easy for her to convince the techs to allow her to self modify her code. Granted in ep 10 we find out Ford was doing all he could to script this escape, but he couldn't control the techs, which I think means Maeve--unmodified Maeve-- actually convinced Felix to set her free. I would think this is the one thing you *don't* do when confronted with a hostile robot/AI which wants more power/freedom. Put simply: Maeve's existence is potentially an existential threat to humanity.
Of course, if Felix believes, as we do, that Maeve is truly conscious --a sentient creature trapped in hellish servitude-- freeing her is likely the right action (I wouldn't free Maeve if I thought there was a significant chance she would destroy humanity say). But it's not really presented that way. Felix comes off as weak and easily manipulated instead of morally upright and kind. He is kind--Maeve explicitly says as much when she says he's a shit human, but I feel like we don't see that. We don't see Maeve appeal to Felix's humanity, we see her manipulate and threaten when initially she has no power but what Felix gives her. The idea than an AI can talk itself out of any box we put it in is an interesting one and I wanted to see more of that rather than sort of skipping the convincing Felix part.
Sylvester is a bit of a cartoon as well-- the small-minded, pathetic bigot right out of central casting. Funny thing is releasing Maeve, as Felix/Ford does, is potentially massively dangerous to all of humanity and Sylvester is right to be wary, even if all he cares about is losing his job.
I didn't buy William's transformation into the MiB. Not sure if it was the acting or the writing but it just didn't land for me.
I also had a big problem with
William transition to MiB
until I heard an explanation:
William's arc is not important except as a mechanism through which Dolores has her realization. Ultimately there is no satisfying way to transform characters on a dime, which is what is necessary for the audience to get a reveal along with Dolores.
Recognising the piano songs was a game in itself. Without subs I caught three Radiohead, a NIN and Soundgarden.
I think my favorite was House of the Rising Sun.
Mine was fake plastic trees playing on a player piano in a fake western town where nearly everything even the animals are fake.
+5
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Finally watched the last episode. In a word, yugh. Didn't care for it at all. Too long, too much exposition, too much plot dependent on a variety of people being dumber than a bag of rocks. Exemplified the weak writing which is the series' biggest flaw.
Someone had to complete the maze was mentioned in the thread... Did she? She got there multiple times already it's been established. She only found "her voice" when Ford, after this cycle of coming to the same place in the maze, brought her aside to the old lab and talked with her. Why didn't he then do it anytime previously? Why was he certain that she would get it and play into the plan perfectly now when he wanted it? It looked like Wyatt mode kicked in, and her perfectly performing what seemed like Ford's unmentioned plan plays to me more like he scripted that entire thing. If not then I think the show did a poor job with those scenes.
And Ford pretty clearly made those decommissioned hosts get over to the party. Like maybe some or many of them are on Dolores level of awakened, but following a pre-programmed plan to assemble at the party (likely for murdering) doesn't really go that far towards showing them having free will and consciousness.
And Bernard claiming Maeve was on script, likely by Ford, how woken up is she really then?
I feel like I know exactly what the show wanted to say was happening with the ending - but it did not look at all like that's what was actually happening. Hey these people are now conscious and free in action, now watch all of them follow Ford's instructions exactly.
A little late for this, but I agree with your interpretation.
None of the hosts are doing anything in the final episode which Ford did not intend. He makes this quite explicit in his last speech to Bernard.
Last episode was a mess. The entire story collapsed under its own weight in my opinion. From one of the finest starts I've seen to a tv show to such a messy, pointless nonsense over the final two episodes is quite the achievement.
I feel it was clearly being set up as a tragedy, but then a certain someone wanted too much cash for season 2 and so we ended up with this pointless contrivance.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
0
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
?
The outside world.
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
?
The outside world.
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
I don't see how any of the things you mentioned would allow the show to explore its themes and questions any more deeply than this season has.
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
?
The outside world.
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
I don't see how any of the things you mentioned would allow the show to explore its themes and questions any more deeply than this season has.
I don't know what to say. They want to do another season (many of them, if we're to believe what has been reported about doing 'five or six more' or whatever it was), I have faith there's more room for them to tell interesting stories.
I'm not trying to be dismissive, but I'm also not a showrunner. I don't know what's in their story guideline/bible, what they want to show/do/tell, and how I might or might not enjoy it.
If you're content with it as a self contained series of one season, that's cool.
The first season interested/impressed me enough to want to see more of that world. If the second season is poop from a butt, I might skip further episodes, but it's not like they're lined up for 8 more right out the gate.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
?
The outside world.
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
I don't see how any of the things you mentioned would allow the show to explore its themes and questions any more deeply than this season has.
Whether an AI can achieve sentience, and how it can be achieved is not the end of the question.
When you consider the question of whether people will accept it, recognize it, or perceive it the themes of the show are only lightly touched on.
Exploring the ways that people react to an AI awakening is a whole other can of worms, as is how they do so when so much of culture has led us to fear the very idea of an AI achieving sentience to an almost irrational degree.
Then you have the questions of how one AI awakens another to sentience.
Frankly this is usually the point where the story ends, or there's a massive timeskip to either utopia or armageddon, so continuing the story is a lot more interesting.
+4
Options
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
?
The outside world.
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
I don't see how any of the things you mentioned would allow the show to explore its themes and questions any more deeply than this season has.
It might and it might not
But honestly, if we don't get another season, I'd still consider it a complete show. It didn't end with any dangling loose ends, imo. That was a great finale that wrapped it all up while leaving something to build on.
Well, first off the shows goal is to make money so there's the only reason needed to get 2390843289342908 seasons.
Second it just needs to be entertaining somehow, even if it's not exploring new themes. Strike Back explored the theme of blowing shit up over and over and didn't suffer for it, for example.
And then down the list we have all the already mentioned reasons.
+1
Options
WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
As long as they're willing to write compelling science fiction that explores the themes they've been exploring, and it isn't awful writing and plotting, I'm down for whatever they're gonna put out. Sign me up.
Started and finished it over the last couple days.
Absolutely wonderful experience until
I realized near the end of the last episode that it wasn't going to wrap-up loose ends and actually finish.
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
?
The outside world.
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
I don't see how any of the things you mentioned would allow the show to explore its themes and questions any more deeply than this season has.
It might and it might not
But honestly, if we don't get another season, I'd still consider it a complete show. It didn't end with any dangling loose ends, imo. That was a great finale that wrapped it all up while leaving something to build on.
This is where I'm at. I'd be satisfied with the single season but it seems to me there's still plenty to explore.
I guess I'll just have to disagree. None of the proposed options sound anywhere near as interesting to me as the exploration of consciousness that this season was.
So one issue I had with the show is that it felt very fragmented. The two major protagonist arcs are Dolores' and Maeve's, right?
They don't really intersect. The two characters hardly interact, their journeys have no concrete connections other than maybe they're both being pushed along by Ford behind the scenes. I figured by the third act of the overarching story it would all start to tie together, but it never really does.
You combine that with all the hanging threads and unresolved mysteries, all the time spent on miscellaneous scripted Westworld interactions where there are no stakes because the characters involved can't die, and I just didn't come out of this even half as satisfied as I hoped I'd be.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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I really hope we get more of that in Season 2.
But then, as Bernard claims, if Arnold and not Ford was the one who pushed the Reveries into production one way or the other, why can't he somehow be the one tweaking Maeve?
Yes
I also had a big problem with
until I heard an explanation:
I think my favorite was House of the Rising Sun.
Mine was fake plastic trees playing on a player piano in a fake western town where nearly everything even the animals are fake.
A little late for this, but I agree with your interpretation.
Very.
I feel it was clearly being set up as a tragedy, but then a certain someone wanted too much cash for season 2 and so we ended up with this pointless contrivance.
Season 1 is a nihilists futuristic take on The Hangover.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Absolutely wonderful experience until
Then I got legit angry. The story was near perfect the way it was. It explored its complex themes thoroughly. We reached the center of the maze, what it means, and Dolores assimilates her inner voice as part of herself.
The fuck else is there to do?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
?
The implications of *one* Host reaching the center of the maze, and another at least thinking she's broken free, or is coming to make her own choices.
Fun setpieces in the other settings that we saw and are implied.
I dunno, fucking dinosaurs? (Err, a Jurassic World section, not copulating with dinosaurs, though I'm sure some sick fuck out there...)
They've said that they have plotted out potentially another half dozen seasons (we can quibble on how much is actually done, but it sure sounded like a 2nd season was only the start of what they'd like to do. And I'm willing to give them at least one more to keep me onboard with the stories they want to tell.
I don't see how any of the things you mentioned would allow the show to explore its themes and questions any more deeply than this season has.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I don't know what to say. They want to do another season (many of them, if we're to believe what has been reported about doing 'five or six more' or whatever it was), I have faith there's more room for them to tell interesting stories.
I'm not trying to be dismissive, but I'm also not a showrunner. I don't know what's in their story guideline/bible, what they want to show/do/tell, and how I might or might not enjoy it.
If you're content with it as a self contained series of one season, that's cool.
The first season interested/impressed me enough to want to see more of that world. If the second season is poop from a butt, I might skip further episodes, but it's not like they're lined up for 8 more right out the gate.
When you consider the question of whether people will accept it, recognize it, or perceive it the themes of the show are only lightly touched on.
Exploring the ways that people react to an AI awakening is a whole other can of worms, as is how they do so when so much of culture has led us to fear the very idea of an AI achieving sentience to an almost irrational degree.
Then you have the questions of how one AI awakens another to sentience.
Frankly this is usually the point where the story ends, or there's a massive timeskip to either utopia or armageddon, so continuing the story is a lot more interesting.
It might and it might not
But honestly, if we don't get another season, I'd still consider it a complete show. It didn't end with any dangling loose ends, imo. That was a great finale that wrapped it all up while leaving something to build on.
Second it just needs to be entertaining somehow, even if it's not exploring new themes. Strike Back explored the theme of blowing shit up over and over and didn't suffer for it, for example.
And then down the list we have all the already mentioned reasons.
Phrasing!
It made bank, man.
Gotta milk that cow dry.
This is where I'm at. I'd be satisfied with the single season but it seems to me there's still plenty to explore.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
You combine that with all the hanging threads and unresolved mysteries, all the time spent on miscellaneous scripted Westworld interactions where there are no stakes because the characters involved can't die, and I just didn't come out of this even half as satisfied as I hoped I'd be.