Making the issue harder to ignore doesn't mean you're doing it any good.
Oh, I wasn't attempting to imply that the show was going to do good--I was expressing a suspicion that part of the outrage people feel over deaths being widely publicized in this manner is that it makes said deaths harder to ignore. Easier not to think about the fact that people are dying because you're keeping your extra kidney, and so on.
I don't particularly know if the show will raise positive awareness.
Again, this decision is made by confused and distressed loved ones, often just after they've been asked questions like "Can we pull the plug now?" I dislike the idea that any part of their decision is based on watching Who wants to fight for my spleen?
I distrust anyone who tries to sell reality tv as some kind of mechanism for positive societal change. I honestly don't think The Biggest Loser has done anything to alleviate the obesity epidemic, I don't think the Block made home building any easier, and I don't think Big Brother is doing anything to help the suffering of the terminally vaccous. These shows turn reality into a farce. That's not solving any problems, it's just turning them into other people's punchlines.
I like this show because it gives the donor the ability to donate her organ to someone she feels really deserves it. Let's her die happy, I suppose, knowing she's helping someone she likes.
For the record: the company broadcasting this show, BNN, is a public station. NOT commercial. If anything, they are risking to loose government subsidies or even getting kicked off the public net.
After reading the newspaper today, I reckon you should know the following:
1) She will donate her kidney while she is still alive, this way she may decide to who she can donate her kidney to. This is also the reason why she can only donate one kidney. If she dies before the operation can be done, no one has any influence on who to give her organs to, then they will go to whoever waited the longest (some people have to wait a decade or more).
2) Selling organs for money is forbidden by law. Some Dutch politicians came up with a slippery-slope argument. They said that "if we allow this, next thing we know there'll be auctions for kidneys". This is simply impossible.
3) I cannot stress this enough: Endemol and BNN do not make any profit on this show, the money they'll make from commercials (there will 2 to 4 minutes of commercials before and after the show) will be given to the Bart Foundation.
Even the boss of BNN agreed that the show is engrossing, but he argues that reality is even uglier. He wants to remind everyone that people die because others are too lazy or scared to become a donor.
So, I think the only thing we can discuss here is:
How far can you go to gain donors?
My opinion is that, although I won't watch the show because it distresses me, if the show makes people sign up to be a donor, as such saving a few lives, it is a good idea. More people should become donor; you're dead anyway, you won't need those kidneys any more. I think that a lot of people don't sign up because they have never been confronted with people who need a new organ. Talking about becoming a donor, sending fancy informational folders and having some goofy commercial obviously does not help; time to seek the confrontation.
Sure, its tasteless. But in the grand scheme of reality TV, "we're up against Idol", push the envelope, shock TV... This was always on the cards.
What I have a problem with is that the donor gets to chose who receives the organ. Currently, its blind, based on the match and probablility of success. There are reasons for this. It should be anonymous. What we have here, is someone chosing who lives and who dies.
Sure, its tasteless. But in the grand scheme of reality TV, "we're up against Idol", push the envelope, shock TV... This was always on the cards.
What I have a problem with is that the donor gets to chose who receives the organ. Currently, its blind, based on the match and probablility of success. There are reasons for this. It should be anonymous. What we have here, is someone chosing who lives and who dies.
No, this is not the case.
I am alive and I have two kidneys. By Dutch law, I am allowed to donate one of those kidneys to someone, ANYONE, I know. If I want to give a kidney to that hot chick in class, I am allowed to, regardless of the guy sitting next to her needing a kidney more.
As long as I am alive it is MY kidney and MY decision.
Sure, its tasteless. But in the grand scheme of reality TV, "we're up against Idol", push the envelope, shock TV... This was always on the cards.
What I have a problem with is that the donor gets to chose who receives the organ. Currently, its blind, based on the match and probablility of success. There are reasons for this. It should be anonymous. What we have here, is someone chosing who lives and who dies.
No, this is not the case.
I am alive and I have two kidneys. By Dutch law, I am allowed to donate one of those kidneys to someone, ANYONE, I know. If I want to give a kidney to that hot chick in class, I am allowed to, regardless of the guy sitting next to her needing a kidney more.
As long as I am alive it is MY kidney and MY decision.
All I know is that the donor has to be healthy in body AND mind. So I will assume that they have thought of this.
Thanks for the typo. I am suitably embarrassed.
I wonder how many other countries are like this… My understanding was that this generally isn’t done. Show’s what I know. I imagine this will come up in other countries when the media discusses it, as it’s quite a big difference.
I wonder how many other countries are like this… My understanding was that this generally isn’t done. Show’s what I know. I imagine this will come up in other countries when the media discusses it, as it’s quite a big difference.
Oh, don't feel embarrassed, I just wasn't sure what the word meant and had to look it up. Thankfully dictionary.com had one of those "did you mean ___?" thingamabobs.
It isn't common practise that parents/brothers/sisters/significant others donate an organ to those in need of one? o_O
I wonder how many other countries are like this… My understanding was that this generally isn’t done. Show’s what I know. I imagine this will come up in other countries when the media discusses it, as it’s quite a big difference.
Oh, don't feel embarrassed, I just wasn't sure what the word meant and had to look it up. Thankfully dictionary.com had one of those "did you mean ___?" thingamabobs.
It isn't common practise that parents/brothers/sisters/significant others donate an organ to those in need of one? o_O
I think the idea is that if you were rich, you could find someone that was poor and take advantage of their situation. People in desperate situations might willingly do something that they might regret later in life. Alternatively, if you were in need and desperate, you could force someone into doing it. Some also argue that there can be unfair pressure on family members to donate also.
I think that the point is that it takes any pressure off of donors, by removing the link between donor and recipient. Having said that, there must be some way to help out a loved one...? I'm afraid I'm not too sure. Buut I did here some medical proffessionals from the UK discussing it on the radio yesterday.
Fallingman on
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RaakamToo many years...CanadalandRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
Are these "contestants" not on the waiting list? My assumption is that they are, but they must know that getting a kidney in time is probably unlikely. I doubt the producers had to force any of these people into this - if I needed a kidney, I'd be breaking down the doors trying to get on the show. While it is repulsive, I think it's important to remember that they are saving a life.
While the organs could be harvested after the woman's death, there's a very real possibility that they would be unusable depending on how she died.
Raakam on
My padherder they don't it be like it is but it do
Call me crazy, but I think we'd all be better off on an opt-out system, rather than the current opt-in system (at least, in the US). People are fucking lazy, and even if they don't give a shity, are unlikely to put much effort into becoming a donor, or taking themselves off the list.
But then, I'm also for taking people's organs once they're dead regardless of objections, because fuck you, you're dead.
Call me crazy, but I think we'd all be better off on an opt-out system, rather than the current opt-in system (at least, in the US). People are fucking lazy, and even if they don't give a shity, are unlikely to put much effort into becoming a donor, or taking themselves off the list.
But then, I'm also for taking people's organs once they're dead regardless of objections, because fuck you, you're dead.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I'd lime it all but that strikes me as ever so slightly obnoxious.
Call me crazy, but I think we'd all be better off on an opt-out system, rather than the current opt-in system (at least, in the US). People are fucking lazy, and even if they don't give a shity, are unlikely to put much effort into becoming a donor, or taking themselves off the list.
But then, I'm also for taking people's organs once they're dead regardless of objections, because fuck you, you're dead.
Isn't that how Spain operates? I know they've got a really good system in place for organ donation.
The problem is, just changing to an opt out system doesn't really do any good. Like I said before, Australia's is the next best thing to an opt out system, but we still have dramatically low donation rates, because at that crucial moment when families have to give consent for donation to occur, stigma and grief and misunderstanding of the deceased's wishes fuck things up. Spain's system works because the culture is apparently really well educated about the donation process, how vital it is, and what the effects will be on the deceased's body. Maybe this Dutch show will help with that, but I kind of doubt it.
Call me crazy, but I think we'd all be better off on an opt-out system, rather than the current opt-in system (at least, in the US). People are fucking lazy, and even if they don't give a shity, are unlikely to put much effort into becoming a donor, or taking themselves off the list.
But then, I'm also for taking people's organs once they're dead regardless of objections, because fuck you, you're dead.
Isn't that how Spain operates? I know they've got a really good system in place for organ donation.
The problem is, just changing to an opt out system doesn't really do any good. Like I said before, Australia's is the next best thing to an opt out system, but we still have dramatically low donation rates, because at that crucial moment when families have to give consent for donation to occur, stigma and grief and misunderstanding of the deceased's wishes fuck things up. Spain's system works because the culture is apparently really well educated about the donation process, how vital it is, and what the effects will be on the deceased's body. Maybe this Dutch show will help with that, but I kind of doubt it.
I think the question is, why are we giving families the ability to invalidate consent given by the donor? I'm not certain that's something we should be doing.
I'm not an organ donor. I don't want any of my organs to make someone evil and do shit like take their organ donor sticker off their driver's license. It's better they die.
I'm not an organ donor. I don't want any of my organs to make someone evil and do shit like take their organ donor sticker off their driver's license. It's better they die.
I bet they bless the organs before the transplant to cut down on that sort of thing.
I think the question is, why are we giving families the ability to invalidate consent given by the donor? I'm not certain that's something we should be doing.
Yeah, this is a bit of an iffy situation and in a lot of states I don't think there is actually legislation demanding this (but I could be wrong). It's more a case of the hospitals using their discretion, seeing as these conversation invariably come just after or at the same time as the family is being asked to cut off life support. I can't even imagine what a gut tear of a decision that must be or how helpless you'd feel having that information given to you.
I think there's a degree of common sense and decency on the part of hospital administrations that they don't just immediately haul off to get on with harvesting as soon as the deceased's name comes up on the registrar. But in practical terms, it means that around half (using the Aus figures) of viable, willing donors don't end up having their organs taken, and that's a huge loss.
I think the question is, why are we giving families the ability to invalidate consent given by the donor? I'm not certain that's something we should be doing.
Yeah, this is a bit of an iffy situation and in a lot of states I don't think there is actually legislation demanding this (but I could be wrong). It's more a case of the hospitals using their discretion, seeing as these conversation invariably come just after or at the same time as the family is being asked to cut off life support. I can't even imagine what a gut tear of a decision that must be or how helpless you'd feel having that decision given to you.
I think there's a degree of common sense and decency on the part of hospital administrations that they don't just immediately haul off to get on with harvesting as soon as the deceased's name comes up on the registrar. But in practical terms, it means that around half (using the Aus figures) of viable, willing donors don't end up having their organs taken, and that's a huge loss.
Agreed. I'm certain it must be hard for the family, but I guess what I'm saying is that they shouldn't even be asking. Part of pulling the plug, or disclosing the news of their loved one's death should include the "and now we're going to follow their wishes and save someone's life" conversation.
My understanding is that especially post-death, it's a fairly time-sensitive thing to get an organ before it ceases being viable, and while we should strive both save lives and comfort the families of the deceased, I can't help but feel like saving lives should take priority over making people feel better/not making them feel worse.
Granted, I won't be around to see it happen, but I'd be pretty pissed if the organs I intended to save lives instead rotted inside my dead body because my parents, wife, or kids were too sad to say "Ok, you can take them now".
Yeah, but it's the whole 'you're not actually around to get pissed' thing that slows hospitals down. The time sensitivity is an issue, but there's actually research that has been done into finding the optimum time between the "He's not even really alive anymore" discussion and the "So, he wants us to have his lung. You cool with that?" discussion.
Having a body to bury in some fashion is a huge part of the grieving process, and I think it's important that families feel comfortable with the way the body has been treated. They need to feel that there's dignity and value rather than helplessness and degradation in a person's vital organs and tissue being used to save lives. Which I think is true.
My knowledge of funeral prep is rather limited, but isn't a great deal of the internal stuff taken out/fucked around with in preparing a body for burial anyway?
I think the idea is that if you were rich, you could find someone that was poor and take advantage of their situation. People in desperate situations might willingly do something that they might regret later in life. Alternatively, if you were in need and desperate, you could force someone into doing it. Some also argue that there can be unfair pressure on family members to donate also.
I think that the point is that it takes any pressure off of donors, by removing the link between donor and recipient. Having said that, there must be some way to help out a loved one...? I'm afraid I'm not too sure. Buut I did here some medical proffessionals from the UK discussing it on the radio yesterday.
There are enough stories of Indian kids getting a kidney ripped out by daddy to pay the bills, I kind of like to think that the situation is better in the Netherlands. I'm pretty sure the talking heads over here will discuss "but what if the woman is crazy?" sooner or later, so maybe we'll learn something about that as well.
Also: I've made it absolutely sure to my parents that if I should die, they can harvest pretty much everything except my eyes (that just sounded scary, damn it), I also have a card in my wallet stating exactly that. My family can't stop the doctors taking my kidneys out, should I die.
2nd Also: Wasn't there a few episodes of House m.d. where family wanted to donate organs/skin/stuff to the patient?
2nd Also: Wasn't there a few episodes of House m.d. where family wanted to donate organs/skin/stuff to the patient?
Yeah, I think it's been dealt with at least a couple of times. House is the worst show for getting hospital procedure or medical advice from though. You'd be better off with Scrubs or World's Wildest Police Chases.
2nd Also: Wasn't there a few episodes of House m.d. where family wanted to donate organs/skin/stuff to the patient?
Yeah, I think it's been dealt with at least a couple of times. House is the worst show for getting hospital procedure or medical advice from though. You'd be better off with Scrubs or World's Wildest Police Chases.
ER. Eeeee Arrrrr!
Uh, yeah, I just realised that its because of House that I assume that Americans can donate organs as well. You know, because it's logical and stuff...
I think America's pretty similar to Australia. Opt in system, family consent not mandatory in a lot of states but sought as part of general hospital policy.
I think America's pretty similar to Australia. Opt in system, family consent not mandatory in a lot of states but sought as part of general hospital policy.
Is Holland opt in or opt out?
opt in.
And the Dutch are just as lazy as the rest of the world.
I think the concept is under-developed. A far better idea would be to have a house full of contestants who all need different organ transplants to live. The winner is whoever outlives the others and they then get their pick of healthy organs from the losers.
I think the concept is under-developed. A far better idea would be to have a house full of contestants who all need different organ transplants to live. The winner is whoever outlives the others and they then get their pick of healthy organs from the losers.
That's pretty much what the situation is anyway, just without any cameras.
I think America's pretty similar to Australia. Opt in system, family consent not mandatory in a lot of states but sought as part of general hospital policy.
Is Holland opt in or opt out?
opt in.
And the Dutch are just as lazy as the rest of the world.
I'm in the Netherlands as well, so I've been hearing about this all week.
Apparently we're not quite as lazy as the rest of Europe. They mentioned on the radio that we have the highest percentage of registered donors in the entire EU. Around 44% of all Dutch citizens are donors.
There's also still some doubt if they'll actually be able to perform the surgery over here at all, due to the general disgust in the medical community over this show. Also, it's not even a given, that the donor's kidney would be compatible with all three contestants (or any of them, for that matter).
I'm not a donor myself. I could joke around and say that nobody would probably want mine in the state they're in anyway (it's true), but it's more a matter of principle for me.
I've known people who've received transplanted organs and being around them hasn't really sold me on the whole transplant idea as it is now. Compatibility issues with received organs almost always arose and made life an unending sea of medication and complications. Which often led to a painful and dragged out death.
That, coupled with the fact that I can't stand the majority of the population, I'd always be worried my organs would end up in some complete asshole, instead of with someone I would actually be willing to donate my organs to. Maybe I'm just cynical because of bad experiences (and meeting a lot of shitty people), so I'd love to hear from people who've had their lives changed for the better after having received a donated organ.
But in all honesty, I'd rather see more time and money spent on stemcell research, so they could grow organs that are far more compatible with their recipients and that wouldn't require harvesting someone else's body. But then again, I'm always worried, that solutions like those (as well as a general cure to something like cancer) could seriously fuck up global population levels. Nature would probably just throw something new our way to balance things out.
Now, before everyone here starts going for the stakes and pitchforks, I wouldn't accept a donated organ either, as long as I'm not a donor myself. I'd feel extremely hypocritical. I'd rather it go to someone who actually backs the whole concept of organ donation. I'd rather be left out of the transplant loop completely, if my organs crap out on me, so be it.
Did you by any chance read the small interview with the BNN-boss in De Volkskrant? He said they did have a deal with a hospital and that they checked for compatibility between donor and patient.
*edit: you know you can decide to only donate things like skin and cornea (dutch: hoornvlies), if you don't feel okay with donating other things.
Did you by any chance read the small interview with the BNN-boss in De Volkskrant? He said they did have a deal with a hospital and that they checked for compatibility between donor and patient.
*edit: you know you can decide to only donate things like skin and cornea (dutch: hoornvlies), if you don't feel okay with donating other things.
No I didn't actually. I was going by a radio interview with a spokesperson for the medical association. He made the comments on compatibility and the actual surgery. Guess he didn't read De Volkskrant either.
(I only get Het Brabants Dagblad here)
I didn't know that you could specify which organs you're willing to donate. I'll have to look further into this.
Thanks for the heads up. I actually spend some time thinking it through while cycling home from work, while avoiding (possibly lethal) traffic.
I hardly have problems with the show being on tv, apart for it feeling grossly inappropriate because of the subject matter. It's just another travesty in a long line of shitty tv ideas. Ignoring it when it airs, seems to be the way to go.
No I didn't actually. I was going by a radio interview with a spokesperson for the medical association. He made the comments on compatibility and the actual surgery. Guess he didn't read De Volkskrant either.
(I only get Het Brabants Dagblad here)
I didn't know that you could specify which organs you're willing to donate. I'll have to look further into this.
Thanks for the heads up. I actually spend some time thinking it through while cycling home from work, while avoiding (possibly lethal) traffic.
I hardly have problems with the show being on tv, apart for it feeling grossly inappropriate because of the subject matter. It's just another travesty in a long line of shitty tv ideas. Ignoring it when it airs, seems to be the way to go.
zomg, Brabo!
Yes, it was probably the only part I felt weird about filling in, because it made me realise they would be pulling things out of my tummy.
Apparently we're not quite as lazy as the rest of Europe. They mentioned on the radio that we have the highest percentage of registered donors in the entire EU. Around 44% of all Dutch citizens are donors.
There's also still some doubt if they'll actually be able to perform the surgery over here at all, due to the general disgust in the medical community over this show.
It may well depend on how mush the number of organ donors increases or decreases over the course of the series.
I saw a representative from some UK donor group on BBC News saying how terrible they thought it was until they suddenly realised that they had reporters knocking down their door looking for interviews and statements - then she felt a bit more conflicted.
Apparently we're not quite as lazy as the rest of Europe. They mentioned on the radio that we have the highest percentage of registered donors in the entire EU. Around 44% of all Dutch citizens are donors.
There's also still some doubt if they'll actually be able to perform the surgery over here at all, due to the general disgust in the medical community over this show.
It may well depend on how mush the number of organ donors increases or decreases over the course of the series.
I saw a representative from some UK donor group on BBC News saying how terrible they thought it was until they suddenly realised that they had reporters knocking down their door looking for interviews and statements - then she felt a bit more conflicted.
That seems to be the idea behind the show, to increase awareness and show how people need to demean themselves to be able to get a transplant without waiting endlessly. Some have even suggested the show won't be aired at all, and that all they were aiming for was publicity, which they got plenty of.
I'm personally convinced it will air and I'm kind of curious how it'll all pan out
Oh and Aldo, yes Brabo, born and raised! Any problems with that? ;-)
That seems to be the idea behind the show, to increase awareness and show how people need to demean themselves to be able to get a transplant without waiting endlessly. Some have even suggested the show won't be aired at all, and that all they were aiming for was publicity, which they got plenty of.
I'm personally convinced it will air and I'm kind of curious how it'll all pan out
I suspect BNN has a dozen more freaky concepts lying around there somewhere. :P But I think they've already gained more publicity to the problem than anything done before. Fuck, the last time the Netherlands were on CNN was with Theo van Gogh being murdered.
Oh and Aldo, yes Brabo, born and raised! Any problems with that? ;-)
Posts
Oh, I wasn't attempting to imply that the show was going to do good--I was expressing a suspicion that part of the outrage people feel over deaths being widely publicized in this manner is that it makes said deaths harder to ignore. Easier not to think about the fact that people are dying because you're keeping your extra kidney, and so on.
I don't particularly know if the show will raise positive awareness.
I distrust anyone who tries to sell reality tv as some kind of mechanism for positive societal change. I honestly don't think The Biggest Loser has done anything to alleviate the obesity epidemic, I don't think the Block made home building any easier, and I don't think Big Brother is doing anything to help the suffering of the terminally vaccous. These shows turn reality into a farce. That's not solving any problems, it's just turning them into other people's punchlines.
1) She will donate her kidney while she is still alive, this way she may decide to who she can donate her kidney to. This is also the reason why she can only donate one kidney. If she dies before the operation can be done, no one has any influence on who to give her organs to, then they will go to whoever waited the longest (some people have to wait a decade or more).
2) Selling organs for money is forbidden by law. Some Dutch politicians came up with a slippery-slope argument. They said that "if we allow this, next thing we know there'll be auctions for kidneys". This is simply impossible.
3) I cannot stress this enough: Endemol and BNN do not make any profit on this show, the money they'll make from commercials (there will 2 to 4 minutes of commercials before and after the show) will be given to the Bart Foundation.
Even the boss of BNN agreed that the show is engrossing, but he argues that reality is even uglier. He wants to remind everyone that people die because others are too lazy or scared to become a donor.
So, I think the only thing we can discuss here is:
How far can you go to gain donors?
My opinion is that, although I won't watch the show because it distresses me, if the show makes people sign up to be a donor, as such saving a few lives, it is a good idea. More people should become donor; you're dead anyway, you won't need those kidneys any more. I think that a lot of people don't sign up because they have never been confronted with people who need a new organ. Talking about becoming a donor, sending fancy informational folders and having some goofy commercial obviously does not help; time to seek the confrontation.
Sure, its tasteless. But in the grand scheme of reality TV, "we're up against Idol", push the envelope, shock TV... This was always on the cards.
What I have a problem with is that the donor gets to chose who receives the organ. Currently, its blind, based on the match and probablility of success. There are reasons for this. It should be anonymous. What we have here, is someone chosing who lives and who dies.
I am alive and I have two kidneys. By Dutch law, I am allowed to donate one of those kidneys to someone, ANYONE, I know. If I want to give a kidney to that hot chick in class, I am allowed to, regardless of the guy sitting next to her needing a kidney more.
As long as I am alive it is MY kidney and MY decision.
Really? That is interesting.
How to they monitor coersion etc?
All I know is that the donor has to be healthy in body AND mind. So I will assume that they have thought of this.
Thanks for the typo. I am suitably embarrassed.
I wonder how many other countries are like this… My understanding was that this generally isn’t done. Show’s what I know. I imagine this will come up in other countries when the media discusses it, as it’s quite a big difference.
It isn't common practise that parents/brothers/sisters/significant others donate an organ to those in need of one? o_O
I think the idea is that if you were rich, you could find someone that was poor and take advantage of their situation. People in desperate situations might willingly do something that they might regret later in life. Alternatively, if you were in need and desperate, you could force someone into doing it. Some also argue that there can be unfair pressure on family members to donate also.
I think that the point is that it takes any pressure off of donors, by removing the link between donor and recipient. Having said that, there must be some way to help out a loved one...? I'm afraid I'm not too sure. Buut I did here some medical proffessionals from the UK discussing it on the radio yesterday.
While the organs could be harvested after the woman's death, there's a very real possibility that they would be unusable depending on how she died.
they don't it be like it is but it do
But then, I'm also for taking people's organs once they're dead regardless of objections, because fuck you, you're dead.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I'd lime it all but that strikes me as ever so slightly obnoxious.
Isn't that how Spain operates? I know they've got a really good system in place for organ donation.
The problem is, just changing to an opt out system doesn't really do any good. Like I said before, Australia's is the next best thing to an opt out system, but we still have dramatically low donation rates, because at that crucial moment when families have to give consent for donation to occur, stigma and grief and misunderstanding of the deceased's wishes fuck things up. Spain's system works because the culture is apparently really well educated about the donation process, how vital it is, and what the effects will be on the deceased's body. Maybe this Dutch show will help with that, but I kind of doubt it.
I think the question is, why are we giving families the ability to invalidate consent given by the donor? I'm not certain that's something we should be doing.
I bet they bless the organs before the transplant to cut down on that sort of thing.
Yeah, this is a bit of an iffy situation and in a lot of states I don't think there is actually legislation demanding this (but I could be wrong). It's more a case of the hospitals using their discretion, seeing as these conversation invariably come just after or at the same time as the family is being asked to cut off life support. I can't even imagine what a gut tear of a decision that must be or how helpless you'd feel having that information given to you.
I think there's a degree of common sense and decency on the part of hospital administrations that they don't just immediately haul off to get on with harvesting as soon as the deceased's name comes up on the registrar. But in practical terms, it means that around half (using the Aus figures) of viable, willing donors don't end up having their organs taken, and that's a huge loss.
Agreed. I'm certain it must be hard for the family, but I guess what I'm saying is that they shouldn't even be asking. Part of pulling the plug, or disclosing the news of their loved one's death should include the "and now we're going to follow their wishes and save someone's life" conversation.
My understanding is that especially post-death, it's a fairly time-sensitive thing to get an organ before it ceases being viable, and while we should strive both save lives and comfort the families of the deceased, I can't help but feel like saving lives should take priority over making people feel better/not making them feel worse.
Granted, I won't be around to see it happen, but I'd be pretty pissed if the organs I intended to save lives instead rotted inside my dead body because my parents, wife, or kids were too sad to say "Ok, you can take them now".
Having a body to bury in some fashion is a huge part of the grieving process, and I think it's important that families feel comfortable with the way the body has been treated. They need to feel that there's dignity and value rather than helplessness and degradation in a person's vital organs and tissue being used to save lives. Which I think is true.
Also: I've made it absolutely sure to my parents that if I should die, they can harvest pretty much everything except my eyes (that just sounded scary, damn it), I also have a card in my wallet stating exactly that. My family can't stop the doctors taking my kidneys out, should I die.
2nd Also: Wasn't there a few episodes of House m.d. where family wanted to donate organs/skin/stuff to the patient?
Yeah, I think it's been dealt with at least a couple of times. House is the worst show for getting hospital procedure or medical advice from though. You'd be better off with Scrubs or World's Wildest Police Chases.
ER. Eeeee Arrrrr!
Uh, yeah, I just realised that its because of House that I assume that Americans can donate organs as well. You know, because it's logical and stuff...
Is Holland opt in or opt out?
And the Dutch are just as lazy as the rest of the world.
Apparently we're not quite as lazy as the rest of Europe. They mentioned on the radio that we have the highest percentage of registered donors in the entire EU. Around 44% of all Dutch citizens are donors.
There's also still some doubt if they'll actually be able to perform the surgery over here at all, due to the general disgust in the medical community over this show. Also, it's not even a given, that the donor's kidney would be compatible with all three contestants (or any of them, for that matter).
I'm not a donor myself. I could joke around and say that nobody would probably want mine in the state they're in anyway (it's true), but it's more a matter of principle for me.
I've known people who've received transplanted organs and being around them hasn't really sold me on the whole transplant idea as it is now. Compatibility issues with received organs almost always arose and made life an unending sea of medication and complications. Which often led to a painful and dragged out death.
That, coupled with the fact that I can't stand the majority of the population, I'd always be worried my organs would end up in some complete asshole, instead of with someone I would actually be willing to donate my organs to. Maybe I'm just cynical because of bad experiences (and meeting a lot of shitty people), so I'd love to hear from people who've had their lives changed for the better after having received a donated organ.
But in all honesty, I'd rather see more time and money spent on stemcell research, so they could grow organs that are far more compatible with their recipients and that wouldn't require harvesting someone else's body. But then again, I'm always worried, that solutions like those (as well as a general cure to something like cancer) could seriously fuck up global population levels. Nature would probably just throw something new our way to balance things out.
Now, before everyone here starts going for the stakes and pitchforks, I wouldn't accept a donated organ either, as long as I'm not a donor myself. I'd feel extremely hypocritical. I'd rather it go to someone who actually backs the whole concept of organ donation. I'd rather be left out of the transplant loop completely, if my organs crap out on me, so be it.
*edit: you know you can decide to only donate things like skin and cornea (dutch: hoornvlies), if you don't feel okay with donating other things.
(I only get Het Brabants Dagblad here)
I didn't know that you could specify which organs you're willing to donate. I'll have to look further into this.
Thanks for the heads up. I actually spend some time thinking it through while cycling home from work, while avoiding (possibly lethal) traffic.
I hardly have problems with the show being on tv, apart for it feeling grossly inappropriate because of the subject matter. It's just another travesty in a long line of shitty tv ideas. Ignoring it when it airs, seems to be the way to go.
Yes, it was probably the only part I felt weird about filling in, because it made me realise they would be pulling things out of my tummy.
It may well depend on how mush the number of organ donors increases or decreases over the course of the series.
I saw a representative from some UK donor group on BBC News saying how terrible they thought it was until they suddenly realised that they had reporters knocking down their door looking for interviews and statements - then she felt a bit more conflicted.
I'm personally convinced it will air and I'm kind of curious how it'll all pan out
Oh and Aldo, yes Brabo, born and raised! Any problems with that? ;-)
Well, almost all the media all over the world. That's who, and they all got to eat their words.
I think this ranks as one of the best worldwide pranks ever.
also, if anyone has more tales of global pranks feel free to share them.