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Should child labor laws apply to entertainment and the arts?
Dread Pirate Arbuthnot
OMG WRIGGLYT O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
OMG WRIGGLYT O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
So we've been seeing some pretty sad examples of child stars growing up into not so happy adults in the media. Lindsay Lohan has been to rehab like, three times now and has substance addiction problems. Brad Renfro recently died after substance abuse problems. And I don't even need to get started on Britney Spears. Its also been brought up that in a lot of cases, child actors are the 'cash cow' for their parents. Sometimes out of necessity, because when a parent is bringing their child to auditions and talking with agents they may not have time to work full time. No doubt it puts stress on any child to be the breadwinner for their family. Of course, sometimes the parents may be a little more greedy than that.
There was also an issue in Australia recently where a twelve year old model was chosen as the face of Gold Coast fashion week. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=482192&in_page_id=1879)
Even though her mother claimed her daughter was just there to be fashionable and she was chaperoned everywhere, it stirred up a lot of controversy for obvious reasons. Many European countries refuse to have models under sixteen on the catwalk for the reason that its an industry that has been plagued with body image issues, eating disorders, and models generally are discouraged from getting an education past high school (or even graduating with some agencies).
Should the same sort of ban apply to entertainment and the arts - that is a restriction on 'celebrity' for people under 17? Perhaps laws that prohibit paparazzi and tabloids from specializing on these people? Obviously it'd be impossible to ban anyone under a certain age from working in the arts, because there are always going to be movies and stories that focus around children or families. But is there any way to help these children grow up into healthy adults and not destroy their childhood in the process of making these movies?
There was also an issue in Australia recently where a twelve year old model was chosen as the face of Gold Coast fashion week. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=482192&in_page_id=1879)
Even though her mother claimed her daughter was just there to be fashionable and she was chaperoned everywhere, it stirred up a lot of controversy for obvious reasons. Many European countries refuse to have models under sixteen on the catwalk for the reason that its an industry that has been plagued with body image issues, eating disorders, and models generally are discouraged from getting an education past high school (or even graduating with some agencies).
Should the same sort of ban apply to entertainment and the arts - that is a restriction on 'celebrity' for people under 17? Perhaps laws that prohibit paparazzi and tabloids from specializing on these people? Obviously it'd be impossible to ban anyone under a certain age from working in the arts, because there are always going to be movies and stories that focus around children or families. But is there any way to help these children grow up into healthy adults and not destroy their childhood in the process of making these movies?
Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
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Short of having the government monitor child actors for ridiculous behavior, and punish the parents for not properly guiding them, i dont think theres much more they can do. And really id rather not see the government go down that route, for obvious reasons.
And dont forget, for every fucked up child actor, thats a bunch more that turn out as normal as anyone else.
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this.
after McCauley Culkins parents bankrupted him and he had to legally divorce them they changed child acting laws so that parents are only entitled to so much of their income, (a very small percent), and earned income has to be partially saved for continuing education. There's also laws as to how much they can work, and when and how they can work.
None of this will change the fact that their castmates will take them out and get them shitfaced, a-la early years drew berrymore or current years lindsey lohan.
Wait, what?
That's messed up.
Um no. They don't apply. There are no children, under the age of 16 ( 14?), aloud to serve in a restaraunt, even as host.
A child cannot get a job doing manual labor before 16.
A child cannot get a job doing jack shitty, accept acting or modeling, before the age of 14. Unless you live on a farm, then lets face it, you work as soon as you can walk.
Child labor laws, much like most other laws, are suspended for the entertainment industry.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
As stated above, there are labor laws that apply to child actors. Not ALL of them apply, sure, but there are regulations regarding how much child actors can work, what kind of contracts they can sign, who controls the money, etc.
And I don't really know what you mean when you say "most other laws are suspended for the entertainment industry"?
Acting is a job. Modeling isa job. When a child that is not even pre-pubescent cannot work in the entertainmnt industry due to age, then you can say the industry has child labor laws.
What they currently have are simply regulations.
The last bit was a snipe at hwo often entertainment industry moguls get a slap on the wrist for crimes that should land them in jail for multiple years.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
okay, so you're saying that no children should be allowed to model clothes or act? you're either an idiot, or you're making a point that has no place in this discussion. There ARE child labor laws for actors. They are just not the same as RETAIL or MANUFACTURING child labor laws, which makes perfect sense.
Meadowpine said it best, the existing labor laws are not the reason child actors are fucked up, if anything, they've helped prevent it in a lot of cases.
I hope this is the first and last time anyone does this to my name.
My precious, precious, internet name.
sorry, I'm not wearing my glasses today and I didn't feel like going back to edit and quote. I apologize...
...meadow
R-E-G-U-L-A-T-I-O-N-S
http://www.stopchildlabor.org/USchildlabor/fact1.htm
and I quote:
"Child actors and performers are not subject to the FLSA’s child labor protections."
How you could possibly deduce they apply in anyway is mindboggling. You can at least surmize the work conditions of actors and models and compare them to jobs that produce similar stress (mental and physical) and responsibility - which would have given you the obvious answer.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
It's gone so fucking far with the tabloid stuff. so far. driving people to not be able to leave their homes, and then everyone starts calling them crazy. I'd fucking go crazy too under those circumstances.
but, as for kids, I don't think there's anything inherently dangerous about acting that it would need to be limited, besides hours and stuff that's already regulated.
correct, as I said, manufacturing and retail (the bulk of FLSA), DOES NOT APPLY to actors, but they still have child labor laws. The op said should there be CHILD LABOR LAWS for actor kids?, not "should child actors abide by the FLSA requirements?" Thank you for both repeating yourself, and me, and making the same point twice.
edit: furthermore, holding them to FLSA standards would probably cripple the child entertainment industry. For the most part they're getting paid considerable, sometimes astronomical sums of money to act, supplimenting the income of their entire family, even off the meager amount the parents are allowed to legally keep for themselves. To make it so that they aren't allowed to work as much would be a huge burden. Once again, there is nothing wrong with child actor laws. They are not what makes a fucked up child star.
/best Homer voice ON
DOH!
I don't think they need to apply. Child labor laws were made to prevent work places from abusing child labor. I'm sure there isn't a child in the entertainment industry that considers themselves abused labor.
PS - thx for putting me on topic.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
Those laws are actively enforced, as well. I worked for an Equity theatre when I was 16, and I can guarantee that the labor laws were actively enforced, and people from the state did check in occasionally. Labor laws cannot prevent social abuses, such as every example that's been put forth over this thread. They can either say that no child can participate, or how much a child can participate, and in what ways it is allowed while on set/studio/what have you. After that, it is the responsibility of the parent. Who, by the way, according to most entertainment labor laws, must be present while the child is working. Even if we were to say that children aren't allowed to work in any entertainment industry until reaching the age of majority, we'd still end with celebrity children messing up. Just look at Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton. Drew Barrymore fits in this category, too, since she would have had the same exposure to the problems with or without the ability to work, what with here family connections.
didn't mean to be a dick or anything either, it just looked like this was veering off to the left.
because seriously, before the "Home Alone" fiasco, parents got almost all of their kids money.
After McCauley divorced his folks, and Drew got so fucked up, they started giving kids their actual share, and enforcing schooling more on set, and provided legal aid, and a lot of other good, good things.
One argument for entertainment exemptions is the fact that before the exemptions the laws could be applied to having a child learn an instrument.
Even then, Judy Garland was much more stable than today's child actors even though they kept her up until 2:00 in the morning at the age of 12 through the use of pills. The modern fucked up former child star got that way because of the modern media, paparazzi, and good old fashioned stress, not because they are working X amount of hours a week instead of X-5.
Essentially, what Amateurhour said.
That, and they are in the limelight during their college-age years, when most people tend to get hammered and act stupid on the weekend.
Yes.
It's not that drug use and mental problems - save for maybe eating disorders - are more common among celebrities than anyone else. It just seems that way because of media projection.
There are also a lot of drunk drivers who survive. Actually, does anybody have the survival rate of cocaine?
Another problem is the kids try to be 'normal' by abusing drugs, because they think that's what 'normal' people do. see: Lohan. Once Disney was done riding her, they dumped her like a bad habit. She coped by doing cocaine.
Now we get to see the trend continue with Miley Cyrus. Hopefully, since her dad is at least involved, she might be okay.
However, I think we should ban the paparazzi from coming near or taking pictures of actors unless they're older than 24.
Blaming celebrity culture for the problems celebrities suffer from is no different than blaming video game culture for the problems gamers suffer from.
The problem is not with the culture. It's with the individuals. There are tons and tons of celebrities who are just fine. They are normal people like you and me, except richer. We just don't hear about them.
I don't think this is the right answer. Not only is it impossible to enforce - you essentially need a public database of every celebrity's age, available to paparazzi in real-time so they know whether they can take the person's picture - it's also going to affect many upcoming young celebrities' careers very negatively. I mean, Hollywood culture is already very exclusive: it is incredibly difficult for new actors to make a name and create a niche for themselves among other, already-famous celebrities. You take away the media coverage - even if it's negative media coverage - and you essentially say "don't bother with becoming an actor unless you're 24 or older."