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Romance of The Three Kingdoms

2

Posts

  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Are there any plans to bring ROTK online out in English? That's a game I would love to play...

    I've been trying to read this (I can't remember right now which translation I have but it's in two giant volumes and it's a very new UK reprint) and I'm finding it very hard going - quite dry. I hope it gets better.

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Zhaosuke wrote: »
    I think this does both Justice to the Book and the real history too, as opposed to Dynasty Warriors, which is still a barrel of laughs

    I think they both do justice to different aspects of the book. Romance certainly covers the massive scope and the ebb and flow of power over the decades, but Dynasty Warriors captures the book's... flourishes better. Remember, Lu Bu being a whirling dervish of blades and death was all there on the page long before Koei made him the tank that he is in their games. Romance is too impersonal to really convey the sometimes intense action of the book, and Dynasty Warriors is too fragmented and limited in scope to really capture the sprawling nature of the epic, but together I think they do a good job of giving a very, very broad impression of the novel.

    Lu Bu in the book is a drunken, boorish unintelligible lout who happens to be incredibly good at hand to hand fighting.

    It's notable that his fate was to be swarmed under by thousands of unnamed peasants and torn apart rather than dying in combat with a named character or being assassinated like most of the other characters in the book.

    He also dies very early on in the story.

  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Lu Bu in the book is a drunken, boorish unintelligible lout who happens to be incredibly good at hand to hand fighting.
    Yes, but he's treated like a god on the battlefield in the book, until his stupidity eventually reduces him to being a lapdog for whoever's wooing him at the time. Given the scope of Dynasty Warriors, it makes sense that they'd focus on the former far, far more than the latter.

  • JinJin Registered User
    edited September 2008
    scootch wrote: »
    Jin wrote: »
    But again, probably the best adaptation of RoTK is:

    998688.png


    The. Best. RoTK. Game. Ever.


    I doubt there's an English version of this game however.

    the title of the game isn't in korean,
    which one is this?


    my favorite one is the one made by Capcom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxRJ7eRtBg


    the name is Wolung Zhuan. Made by a Taiwanese company which no longer exist.

    I believe Mandarin, Korean and Japanese localization exists, but no western languages.


    this game is wonderful in a way it portrays macro strategy so elegantly. most grand-strategy games become cumbersome with micro management later on in the game but Wolong Zhuan removed that completely. Pure macro madness.

  • Typhus733Typhus733 Yip! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any plans to bring ROTK online out in English? That's a game I would love to play...

    I've been trying to read this (I can't remember right now which translation I have but it's in two giant volumes and it's a very new UK reprint) and I'm finding it very hard going - quite dry. I hope it gets better.

    WHAT!?!?!


    Please tell me this is what I always wanted it to be and not just a bad korean MMO using the name

  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Typhus733 wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any plans to bring ROTK online out in English? That's a game I would love to play...

    I've been trying to read this (I can't remember right now which translation I have but it's in two giant volumes and it's a very new UK reprint) and I'm finding it very hard going - quite dry. I hope it gets better.

    WHAT!?!?!


    Please tell me this is what I always wanted it to be and not just a bad korean MMO using the name

    Wish I could tell you it was the former, but... it's the latter.

  • Typhus733Typhus733 Yip! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    D:

    My dreams....

    They are crushed.



    Edit: And I'm made even sadder because the first post in this thread after the OP was me saying how much I want a strategy MMO of this series so very much in the style of RoTK VIII.

  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Zhaosuke wrote: »
    Off topic, did you check out the 2 recent RO3K films 'Resurrection of the dragon' n 'Chi Bi'?

    im guessing you obviously have =p
    Actually I haven't. :) My Three Kingdoms exposure is limited to the novel, Koei's games, and reading on the actual history of the period. All the anime, movies, TV series, non-Koei games and such have pretty much eluded me. Are they any good?
    Zhaosuke wrote: »
    Liu Bei was a massive baby who kept crying all the time if he got into a mess, making Guan Yu N Zhang Fei stick up for him
    Guan Yu was hardly a prize either. Bastard couldn't keep his temper in check if his life depended on it, and it frequently did much to the chagrin of everyone in his immediate vicinity. I also seem to remember Zhang Fei kicking off quite a shitstorm by stealing something or other (either food or horses) right within the first hundred or so pages, but it's been some time since I read that particular section so my memory is a bit fuzzy. Either way, why Liu Bei and his merry band of misfits are the novel's heroes I'll never know, but it does get quite tiring to watch Liu Bei "oh no I mustn't" his way to the top.


    Haha, very true indeed, though many people seem to follow Guan Yu as a deity, many japanese temples are in awe of him, being some equivalent to Mars : The God Of War,
    except Guan Yu more so depicts 'brotherhood' and 'truth'
    also Arrogance, which was his eventual downfall
    i thought Huang Zhong was a under-rated character i think

    I really recommend Chi Bi, the casting of characters is pretty fitting and the battle scenes are pretty spectacular, though 'Resurrection of the Dragon' tells the tale of Zhao Yun or "Zhao ZiLong as they refer to him in this" its kinda a twisted perpestive on him joining Shu, then getting old, the guy who played Zhuge Liang was pretty spot on though, even the guy who played Liu Bei was pretty nifty

    9h05lz.jpg
  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Zhaosuke wrote: »
    I think this does both Justice to the Book and the real history too, as opposed to Dynasty Warriors, which is still a barrel of laughs

    I think they both do justice to different aspects of the book. Romance certainly covers the massive scope and the ebb and flow of power over the decades, but Dynasty Warriors captures the book's... flourishes better. Remember, Lu Bu being a whirling dervish of blades and death was all there on the page long before Koei made him the tank that he is in their games. Romance is too impersonal to really convey the sometimes intense action of the book, and Dynasty Warriors is too fragmented and limited in scope to really capture the sprawling nature of the epic, but together I think they do a good job of giving a very, very broad impression of the novel.

    Lu Bu in the book is a drunken, boorish unintelligible lout who happens to be incredibly good at hand to hand fighting.

    It's notable that his fate was to be swarmed under by thousands of unnamed peasants and torn apart rather than dying in combat with a named character or being assassinated like most of the other characters in the book.

    He also dies very early on in the story.


    tbh, i'd sell my own mom for Diao Chan, Lu Bu was a lucky sucker in that respect.

    9h05lz.jpg
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Typhus733 wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any plans to bring ROTK online out in English? That's a game I would love to play...

    I've been trying to read this (I can't remember right now which translation I have but it's in two giant volumes and it's a very new UK reprint) and I'm finding it very hard going - quite dry. I hope it gets better.

    WHAT!?!?!


    Please tell me this is what I always wanted it to be and not just a bad korean MMO using the name

    Wish I could tell you it was the former, but... it's the latter.

    It's Japanese (developed by KOEI Singapore).

    I don't know much about it really, but if you speak Moon you can play free up until level 20. So I'm going to do just that.

    What would be the version you would love? Online Strategy?

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    sethsez wrote: »
    Typhus733 wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any plans to bring ROTK online out in English? That's a game I would love to play...

    I've been trying to read this (I can't remember right now which translation I have but it's in two giant volumes and it's a very new UK reprint) and I'm finding it very hard going - quite dry. I hope it gets better.

    WHAT!?!?!


    Please tell me this is what I always wanted it to be and not just a bad korean MMO using the name

    Wish I could tell you it was the former, but... it's the latter.

    It's Japanese (developed by KOEI Singapore).

    "Korean MMO" generally refers to any MMO that's really, really, absurdly grind-y and has a very heavy emphasis on in-game loot over all else. Basically, stuff that takes the EverQuest style and ran in the exact wrong direction with it. The developers may be Japanese, but the model is pure Korean.

  • Typhus733Typhus733 Yip! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »

    What would be the version you would love? Online Strategy?


    Yes, exactly if you took RoTK 8 and made it online, you still had the RPG aspects but only controlled your unit with player run "governments." It'd be a very delicate process to make it good but games like BattleMaster show that in concept it could maybe work a little in the form of I would fucking want to play it oh so badly.

  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I should really get one of the DS Sangokushi games. There are two proper ones I think?

    I've only really played Sangokushi Taisen - the ROTK CCG-battling game (on the DS, not in the arcades). That was awesome, and got me into ROTK and buying the books. A sequel has just come out which keeps calling to me from the shelves.

    I'm a little torn because I am just getting into ROTK, so it's interesting, but I know Japan very well, so Nobunaga's Ambition (another DS title) is very tempting and probably easier to get to grips with.

    Hmmm....

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    sethsez wrote: »
    Typhus733 wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any plans to bring ROTK online out in English? That's a game I would love to play...

    I've been trying to read this (I can't remember right now which translation I have but it's in two giant volumes and it's a very new UK reprint) and I'm finding it very hard going - quite dry. I hope it gets better.

    WHAT!?!?!


    Please tell me this is what I always wanted it to be and not just a bad korean MMO using the name

    Wish I could tell you it was the former, but... it's the latter.

    It's Japanese (developed by KOEI Singapore).

    "Korean MMO" generally refers to any MMO that's really, really, absurdly grind-y and has a very heavy emphasis on in-game loot over all else. Basically, stuff that takes the EverQuest style and ran in the exact wrong direction with it. The developers may be Japanese, but the model is pure Korean.

    I know the style you mean (though WOW seems to be 'Korean' as hell) - I just wouldn't say 'Korean' - I'd say Korean-style or something. No worries, though. I get what you mean.

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    I should really get one of the DS Sangokushi games. There are two proper ones I think?

    Sure are. One of 'em is a remake of 3, and I think the other is a remake of 4 but don't quote me on that. Either way, they're both quite simple compared to later entries in the series, but can certainly be addictive in their own right. I'm basing this mostly on the original versions, though, as I can't speak Japanese and these are pretty much impossible to play without a basic understanding of the language.
    poshniallo wrote: »
    WOW seems to be 'Korean' as hell
    Compare it to Lineage II or Requiem: Bloodymare and it becomes obvious just how much more casual WOW is. :P

  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    http://www.musou-bb.jp/

    DW is online at least, though that was to be expected

    they called it 'Dynasty Warriors BB (Broadband)"

    9h05lz.jpg
  • JubehJubeh Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I get my power back just in time to see this wonderful wonderful thread.

    I'm a big fan of the novel and TV drama, but I've always sucked at the games. I played the demo for XI on PC, though, and I loved it. I'll probably get it whenever. I just don't think I'm cut out for these kinds of games.

  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I got XI for the pc recently and I got my ass kicked on beginner. Maybe a different scenario would be easier. The one I did was Yellow Turban, and the person I selected was Ding Yuan. I lost even with my super good-at-everything custom officer and freaking Lu Bu.

    I'm guessing I just suck. Bad.

  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Cherrn wrote: »

    Resurrection of the Dragon doesn't look particularly good, though. You should check out Curse of the Golden Flower. It's not Three Kingdoms, but it is fuckawesome.

    Yes is certainly is, i'd have epilepsy if i lived in a kingdom of that much gold though

    9h05lz.jpg
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Related to this, I think. I recently rented the John Woo movie "Red Cliff" based on the novels these games were based off of. It was one of the best movie going experiences I've had in a long time. Go rent it.

  • SoggychickenSoggychicken Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Related to this, I think. I recently rented the John Woo movie "Red Cliff" based on the novels these games were based off of. It was one of the best movie going experiences I've had in a long time. Go rent it.

    This is the same as the Chi Bi movie they're talking about last page.

    Also, if you manage to get your hands on a Chinese or Japanese version of Romance XI, there's an English translation patch out there that is pretty good. Debating on collapsing mountains FTW.

  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Related to this, I think. I recently rented the John Woo movie "Red Cliff" based on the novels these games were based off of. It was one of the best movie going experiences I've had in a long time. Go rent it.

    This is the same as the Chi Bi movie they're talking about last page.

    Also, if you manage to get your hands on a Chinese or Japanese version of Romance XI, there's an English translation patch out there that is pretty good. Debating on collapsing mountains FTW.

    XI was just released in English.

  • GrombarGrombar Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I've been playing some XI lately. I like how the two most effective debate tactics are "Ignore" and "Bellow." Makes you think they should've added "Cut his mic."

  • widowsonwidowson Registered User
    edited September 2008
    I played all the Romance games from 1-6 and the first 2 or 3 Nobunaga's Ambition games.

    The I got introduced to the Total War series and never looked back.

    If they ever make Total War:China, I think Koei is fucked.

    IMHO I don't remember the core gameplay really getting progressivly better in their game series. They make one or two changes, improve the graphics a little, and slap on another roman numeral.

    Does the latest Romance of the 3 kingdoms have anything that would make me want to give up Medieval: Total War 2?

    -I owe nothing to Women's Lib.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • MindLibMindLib Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I played a lot of the SNES games. I just recently got back into it with XI for P.C. The game is really pretty but seems to have become a bit more basic in the strategy.

    I was always more prone to:
    GemFire

  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    widowson wrote: »
    I played all the Romance games from 1-6 and the first 2 or 3 Nobunaga's Ambition games.

    The I got introduced to the Total War series and never looked back.

    If they ever make Total War:China, I think Koei is fucked.

    IMHO I don't remember the core gameplay really getting progressivly better in their game series. They make one or two changes, improve the graphics a little, and slap on another roman numeral.

    Does the latest Romance of the 3 kingdoms have anything that would make me want to give up Medieval: Total War 2?

    Both series are completely different. One focuses mainly on turn-based strategy (or an RPG/strategy hybrid), and the other mainly on real-time battles.

    And you don't need to give up a game to enjoy another.

  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    widowson wrote: »
    I played all the Romance games from 1-6 and the first 2 or 3 Nobunaga's Ambition games.

    The I got introduced to the Total War series and never looked back.

    If they ever make Total War:China, I think Koei is fucked.

    IMHO I don't remember the core gameplay really getting progressivly better in their game series. They make one or two changes, improve the graphics a little, and slap on another roman numeral.

    Does the latest Romance of the 3 kingdoms have anything that would make me want to give up Medieval: Total War 2?
    Battles take place on the main map rather than cutting away to a separate screen, which significantly changes which strategies are workable and which ones will get your ass kicked. It works amazingly well for Romance, but obviously couldn't work for Total War. They're different enough that both can be enjoyed on their own merits.

    Also, it's worth noting that you quit right before the series made a massive change with VII, where huge RPG elements were introduced and you could play as officers of any rank, rather than just being the ruler. This doesn't exist in XI, so both X and XI are worth playing since their gameplay is sufficiently different. 1-6 were basically just a series of linear improvements, though.
    MindLib wrote: »
    I played a lot of the SNES games. I just recently got back into it with XI for P.C. The game is really pretty but seems to have become a bit more basic in the strategy.
    I don't think it's become more basic in strategy at all... if anything there's much more going on to take into consideration at any given time, and individual stats seem to matter much more than they ever did. The interface is just so much better than the SNES games that it doesn't feel as complex, even if it's deeper overall.

  • leafleaf Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I always wanted to play these games, but as a kid could never actually understand what was going on.

    What would be a decent game to start with, keeping in mind I prefer more strategy and don't care much at all for rpg's.

    newsig-notweed.jpg
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    leaf wrote: »
    I always wanted to play these games, but as a kid could never actually understand what was going on.

    What would be a decent game to start with, keeping in mind I prefer more strategy and don't care much at all for rpg's.

    XI for the PC is the easiest to actually obtain legally right now, and is probably the strongest strategy title in the bunch.

    However, don't get confused by the use of "RPG" when referring to VII, VIII and X. It's not random battle, teen angst, saving the world nonsense. RPG in that sense means that you actually have to play the role of an officer, and in addition to doing your duties (some of which you can do freely, some of which will be assigned to you) you also have to schmooze with other officers, build up alliances with the right people and make sure you're in the right place at the right time when shit goes down to earn yourself promotions and gifts.

    Basically, saying it added RPG elements is a bit misleading. They added role-playing elements, in the literal sense.

  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    widowson wrote: »

    If they ever make Total War:China, I think Koei is fucked.


    Amen dude, amen

    9h05lz.jpg
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Rot3K has most of its following because of how it plays. If people wanted Total War they'd play Total War. I mean, Nobunaga's Ambition still has a following in Japan and Shogun: Total War didn't hurt it any. The real-time element alone is enough to ensure that the games can retain core fanbases without fear of the other.

  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Rot3K has most of its following because of how it plays. If people wanted Total War they'd play Total War. I mean, Nobunaga's Ambition still has a following in Japan and Shogun: Total War didn't hurt it any. The real-time element alone is enough to ensure that the games can retain core fanbases without fear of the other.

    aye, true words man,

    but 3 kingdoms aside, the general warfare of ancient china was pretty immense, the 7 kingdoms of unification was an awesome Qin campaign,

    im just saluting a good mans concept, i should've scrapped 'koei is fucked' from the Quote..

    9h05lz.jpg
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Oh, I agree, I'd love to see more Chinese-oriented strategy games. :) There's certainly not a lack of material to base games on. It'd probably be a tough sell for most western gamers, though, since Chinese names can be extremely difficult to memorize if a bunch are thrown at you at once for a non-native speaker, and the populace doesn't really have an inherent knowledge of or interest in the history involved.

  • JinJin Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Clevinger wrote: »
    I got XI for the pc recently and I got my ass kicked on beginner. Maybe a different scenario would be easier. The one I did was Yellow Turban, and the person I selected was Ding Yuan. I lost even with my super good-at-everything custom officer and freaking Lu Bu.

    I'm guessing I just suck. Bad.


    Since XI went through an AI patch, the NPC's been ultra aggressive, and they'll attack you at every opportunity.


    Easiest way to avoid AI bullying: you can just create an officer with 99 int and pol with ability "negotiator". Also, don't forget to set your duel and debate automatic instead of manual. (or just play Cao Cao and Guo Jia has negotiator with 98 int)

    Then what you do is when AI sends out troops to one of your cities, just send your created officer to 24-month ceasefire (with 0 gold), and you'll get it due to negotiator ability.

    You can just focus on killing one guy at a time then. This does make the game incredibly easy though.


    Also when you have more than 1 city, it's easier to manage if you put them in districts so CPU will manage them for you. You can even set them to send you supplies when there's surplus.

  • OverlordOverlord Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Not to bump the thread, but I have a friend who is trying to get me hooked on this game series and he's telling me 8 is the best, but the only one I can find is 7. Would anyone recommend 7 or should I just keep looking for 8.

    sigsh.gif
  • ZhaosukeZhaosuke Registered User
    edited September 2008
    id get 7, any of these titles is worth getting, though XI recently made a PC debut, so get that too!

    9h05lz.jpg
  • YenzillaYenzilla Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Lu Bu in the book is a drunken, boorish unintelligible lout who happens to be incredibly good at hand to hand fighting.

    It's notable that his fate was to be swarmed under by thousands of unnamed peasants and torn apart rather than dying in combat with a named character or being assassinated like most of the other characters in the book.

    He also dies very early on in the story.

    I have no clue which translation you might've read, but Lu Bu was executed by Cao Cao after being betrayed by his own men.

    Also: His drunken, womanizing phase was only after he betrayed and murdered Dong Zhuo. His reputation is much greater as an unbeatable warrior (managed to fend off Liu Bei and his two sworn brothers-- at one time), and his greed/treachery. First, he was bribed by Dong Zhuo with Red Hare to betray his previous lord, his adoptive father, then allowed Diao Chan to wedge between him and his second adoptive father, Dong Zhuo.

  • JinJin Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Yenzilla wrote: »
    Lu Bu in the book is a drunken, boorish unintelligible lout who happens to be incredibly good at hand to hand fighting.

    It's notable that his fate was to be swarmed under by thousands of unnamed peasants and torn apart rather than dying in combat with a named character or being assassinated like most of the other characters in the book.

    He also dies very early on in the story.

    I have no clue which translation you might've read, but Lu Bu was executed by Cao Cao after being betrayed by his own men.

    Also: His drunken, womanizing phase was only after he betrayed and murdered Dong Zhuo. His reputation is much greater as an unbeatable warrior (managed to fend off Liu Bei and his two sworn brothers-- at one time), and his greed/treachery. First, he was bribed by Dong Zhuo with Red Hare to betray his previous lord, his adoptive father, then allowed Diao Chan to wedge between him and his second adoptive father, Dong Zhuo.

    Among men, Lu Bu, among steeds, Red Hare

  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Overlord wrote: »
    Not to bump the thread, but I have a friend who is trying to get me hooked on this game series and he's telling me 8 is the best, but the only one I can find is 7. Would anyone recommend 7 or should I just keep looking for 8.

    VII, VIII and X are all fine games and if you're not experienced with the series any of them will make a fine starting point. That said, I tend to think X is the best of the three for gameplay, VII is the best for atmosphere and generally conveying the setting well, and VIII is the weakest of the three but still absolutely fantastic.

    If you can get VII, go for it. If you don't care for it, I seriously doubt any of those three will be your speed.
    Yenzilla wrote: »
    His drunken, womanizing phase was only after he betrayed and murdered Dong Zhuo. His reputation is much greater as an unbeatable warrior (managed to fend off Liu Bei and his two sworn brothers-- at one time), and his greed/treachery. First, he was bribed by Dong Zhuo with Red Hare to betray his previous lord, his adoptive father, then allowed Diao Chan to wedge between him and his second adoptive father, Dong Zhuo.
    Lu Bu really does seem like a thoughtless force of nature that various warlords try to utilize for their own ends just so he won't come after them.

  • JungleskyeJungleskye Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    MindLib wrote: »
    I played a lot of the SNES games. I just recently got back into it with XI for P.C. The game is really pretty but seems to have become a bit more basic in the strategy.

    I was always more prone to:
    GemFire


    Been trolling for years and Gemfire got me to respond ;) I love this game when I was a kid. And I also played the hell out of all the RTK games.

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