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[Bizniz] Miyamoto and the gaming conservatives of Japan.
Flippy_D
Digital ConquistadorLondonRegistered User regular
Digital ConquistadorLondonRegistered User regular
I love Miyamoto.
Really do. He makes fantastic games, thinks like no other developer, and knows how to really get under the skin of his creations. It shows and is readily proveable: Link's clothes, for example, being one of the perhaps most underappreciated gems. Think about it. In an area of design where costumes are generally praised in direct proportion to their outlandishness, Link sticks with a simple, serviceable tunic, that - far from being dull - actually gives him more character than [other generic RPG hero]. And there's the more obvious examples of Pikmin, etc.
But there is much evidence to show Miyamoto as an essentially conservative figure. Whilst his imagination is seemingly limitless and his touch is art, he is opposed to certain concepts. He is, if you will, like an old artisan - but there's a new wave coming.
The developer scene in America is burgeoning. It's crazy. And, all of a sudden, Japan has had the rug tugged out from underneath them somewhat. I can't remember the sources, but there have definitely been a few figures saying that American developers are thinking in far more inventive and innovative ways than their Japanese counterparts. Looking at gaming trends, it's interesting to note that whilst Japan had the, shall we say, means of production, gameplay evolved very slowly. Any core changes were implemented over a long period of time. One could argue this is to do with the hardware involved, and if we were to hypothetically limit this to the NES, then they might have a point. But look at the SNES and Sega Genesis/Mega Drive. These were not underpowered machines. Plenty of modern concepts could have been implemented then, but were not.
Now America really has the market power, despite the XBox flagging in mainland Europe and Japan. And all of a sudden we have an explosion of new and original ideas, from quick-time-events to Portal to downloadable content (though I personally find the latter distasteful). I am a Nintendo fan, but I look at the Wii's primitive online experience and am just baffled by the intrinsically Japanese company's conservative nature. Just today on Kotaku, we have a quote...:
As to what effect this may have on the market as a whole, I'm unsure. But, as a British gamer, I know I'm looking to America for what's new in gaming.
What do you think? Is Japan going to continue pumping out what we perceive are uninspired, derrivative games? Is this rush of the new in America going to last or is it just a phase? Will market forces embrace innovative titles enough or do we, overall, prefer to stick to what we know and love?
Titles to consider: Super Mario Galaxy, Katamari Damacy, Devil May Cry 4, Grand Theft Auto, Portal, Professor Layton, Resident Evil 4, Halo, Viva Pinata...
Really do. He makes fantastic games, thinks like no other developer, and knows how to really get under the skin of his creations. It shows and is readily proveable: Link's clothes, for example, being one of the perhaps most underappreciated gems. Think about it. In an area of design where costumes are generally praised in direct proportion to their outlandishness, Link sticks with a simple, serviceable tunic, that - far from being dull - actually gives him more character than [other generic RPG hero]. And there's the more obvious examples of Pikmin, etc.
But there is much evidence to show Miyamoto as an essentially conservative figure. Whilst his imagination is seemingly limitless and his touch is art, he is opposed to certain concepts. He is, if you will, like an old artisan - but there's a new wave coming.
The developer scene in America is burgeoning. It's crazy. And, all of a sudden, Japan has had the rug tugged out from underneath them somewhat. I can't remember the sources, but there have definitely been a few figures saying that American developers are thinking in far more inventive and innovative ways than their Japanese counterparts. Looking at gaming trends, it's interesting to note that whilst Japan had the, shall we say, means of production, gameplay evolved very slowly. Any core changes were implemented over a long period of time. One could argue this is to do with the hardware involved, and if we were to hypothetically limit this to the NES, then they might have a point. But look at the SNES and Sega Genesis/Mega Drive. These were not underpowered machines. Plenty of modern concepts could have been implemented then, but were not.
Now America really has the market power, despite the XBox flagging in mainland Europe and Japan. And all of a sudden we have an explosion of new and original ideas, from quick-time-events to Portal to downloadable content (though I personally find the latter distasteful). I am a Nintendo fan, but I look at the Wii's primitive online experience and am just baffled by the intrinsically Japanese company's conservative nature. Just today on Kotaku, we have a quote...:
Now the Wii, coupled with the DS, is interesting and exceptional, especially as they come from that company that is most entrenched in tradition. But still, software-wise... ignoring the demographic demands (Japan loves their jRPGs) and focusing purely on innovation, I think the development scene in Japan is stagnating fast, flagging behind their American counterparts.... our Japanese colleagues said that there is no such thing as social gaming in Japan: 'People do not play games on the same sofa together in each other's homes. It will never happen.' And then out comes the Wii."
As to what effect this may have on the market as a whole, I'm unsure. But, as a British gamer, I know I'm looking to America for what's new in gaming.
What do you think? Is Japan going to continue pumping out what we perceive are uninspired, derrivative games? Is this rush of the new in America going to last or is it just a phase? Will market forces embrace innovative titles enough or do we, overall, prefer to stick to what we know and love?
Titles to consider: Super Mario Galaxy, Katamari Damacy, Devil May Cry 4, Grand Theft Auto, Portal, Professor Layton, Resident Evil 4, Halo, Viva Pinata...
Flippy_D on
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America likes gritty, in-your-face action and football, whereas Japan likes big eyes and dudes with long white hair and dresses. (note: generalizations)
Compare population sizes and you've got a reasonable explanation as to why. Your average American gamer, which is to say not so average because he is the majority, does not dabble in games where his manliness is tested.
I would like to think that the market embraces innovation, but at the same time it requires what we know and love. Example: EA. They've aquired BioWare. They make some pretty different games than most other development houses. At the same time, in order to make that a plausible business desicion on EA's end, they have to have the capital to back it up, which is where Madden comes it.
Also, social gaming in Japan, eh? Makes the Wii pointless and makes me wonder why there've been so many fighting games.
Arcade scene and the sofa scene are two VERY different things.
Well it's a fucking button down suit compared to this:
Hmm.
When you say "titles to consider" what exactly are you referring to?
There are some games there I think are truly innovative, interesting and fun (Mario Galaxy, Katamari and Portal).
And there are others there I find dull, boring and repetetive (GTA, Devil May Cry and Halo).
Of course these are just opinions. I personally feel we are on the verge of a massive gaming uproar. More new and fresh ideas are coming from America, and I feel Japan is a step away from doing the same thing, especially with people like Miyamoto, Suda51, and Kojima wandering around (Kojima especially as he'll soon be free of Metal Gear's hold over him).
It's just a tunic. Standard medieval fare for a squire or bard. In fact, given it's lack of adornments and it's unobtrusive color, it might even be considered rather plain for a tunic.
What, for instance, are the main innovations you see from American developers? You mention, for instance:
QTE a new and original idea? Surely downloadable content isn't that different a concept from patches, expansion packs, and updated versions of a game.
And how are any of those things more innovative than, say, the Wiimote?
How are 30 military-based FPSes innovative? Why give American developers credit for basically having expanded upon Doom while denying Japanese developers credit for developing their genres of choice?
Note that I'm not saying the reverse. I think you can probably make a good case for Western developers being a bit more adventurous than their Japanese counterparts these days. I just don't think you've done that.
Yeah, gonna have to agree with this.
Anyhow, how is downloadable content new at all for games? I know it may be new for Consoles, but PCs have been doing mods and other such things for a long, long time now; almost an eternity in gaming terms.
I can't really say that I've seen a whole lot of genre-bending, or even revolutionary games in the past 5 or so years. Developers tend to stick to genre conventions for the most part.
MY ICE! ZE GOGGLES, ZEY DO NOSIIIIINNNGGG!
The only thing outlandish about it was his cameltoe in SC2.
QTE are new from the era of American influence rather than Japanese, which started a good couple of years back, now. I'm talking more in periods than contemporarily. DLC I think is new, because it's not just a patch or expansion. It's micro-transactions and, being cynical, an excuse for unfinished games in the wrong hands. Perhaps it's more of a financial than development evolution. As for the wiimote, I did say that I'm talking mainly about software rather than hardware.
This is a fair enough criticism. My opinion has been formulated over quite some time, though, and frankly I thought that scouring the rather obscure archives of the net was not going to be worth it for a thread that might never take off. I'm more interested to see the response, and people proving or disproving what I think. I don't pretend to be an authority.
EDIT: ha, nevermind. QTE was debuted by Dragon's Lair. Thanks Wikipedia!
Like Krunk, I made the mistake of forgetting about FMV games and thinking that QTE originated with ShenMue. At any rate, all that really shows is that QTE has been around for decades. I mean, yeah, integrating it into action games was sort of an innovation, but was it that big of a deal?
A couple things -
If you're talking about software, than DLC is beside the point, since the innovation you're looking at is from a business model standpoint. From a software point of view, DLC isn't doing anything that patches and expansion packs (and even odd things like Sonic & Knuckles' lock-on cartridge) haven't been doing for decades (and, of course, game modification on PCs is light years ahead of what's available on consoles through DLC).
Also, I don't think that it's possible to separate hardware innovation from software innovation. What Nintendo did with the Wiimote is as good an example of that as anything. With the Wiimote, Nintendo has, quite literally, changed the way that certain games are played. As an innovation, it cannot be overrated. That translates directly into innovation in software like Wii Sports and Super Mario Galaxy.
I think that what's really happening in the Western market is that you're seeing what's basically a merging of the console and PC markets.
Console games are suddenly getting a flood of genres (FPS, RTS), concepts (DLC), and developers from the PC side of things, so it's no surprise that the landscape looks a lot different than it did a generation ago, and completely different from two generations ago. A lot of the things you're giving Western developers credit for innovating are really just stuff that's been going on with PC games since the mid-90's that's just now finding its way onto consoles.
I think that the Wii and the DS pretty much disprove any kind of extreme conservatism on the Japanese sides of things, however.
My God, I can FEEL the fabulous emitting from my monitor.
*Edit:
Holy crap, 1983?
Edit2:
Damn it, I shouldn't have gone to lunch before hitting "submit".
And seriously, Link's outfit is relatively conservative as hell (and totally awesome).
Especially in Twilight Princess. Tunic, chain mail, study pants, and boots. Sounds good. The only thing that ever really stands out as "weird" is the hat.
And this makes me really want to play TP again.
That makes me incredibly sad to hear such an ignorant opinion from such a brilliant guy.
Not to mention even his sword has a belt.
I never asked for this!
Why does that girl have a light cycle from TRON slung over her shoulder?
Hey at least they switched it up with the big pizza cutter.
I never asked for this!
It's probably best to consider that a female, if only for the sake of your sanity.
I'm more worried about the fact that he only points to the sword as being the obnoxious part.
Is there any source on this? I'm really shocked to hear that
Ridiculous outfits haven't been that big a thing yet. Trust me, I noticed the huge opening at the ankles of the boots (with heels, I mean what the fuck), the MC Hammer shorts with, again, huge openings for the legs, and the weird sash around the waist, the belt that's too big and isn't doing anything, the elbow guards that are way super huge, goofy hat, huge bag hanging off the second belt that's even bigger than the first belt and really should've fallen off by now, the clover patch, and the sword hilt that ISNT EVEN BIG ENOUGH TO SHEATH THE SWORD.
Edit - Oh, apparently there's a sword inside that sheath. I just noticed it.
I am annoyed at Japan's lack of understanding of American multiplayer gaming, but what are you gonna do.
How's that jail going?
Eastern conceptions of "art" are often so different from our own that it doesn't even make much sense to talk about them the same way. Considering how much trouble we have nailing down the term "art" when we confine it solely to Western projects, I can't really say anything about Miyamoto's remark one way or the other.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Wii Sports, Metroid Prime 3, and Super Mario Galaxy say hi.