PCs often assume that because an encounter is in the module, it's balanced so they can beat it.
I would support any DM who (with fair warning) savagely broke players of that habit. If you think you can win every fight the game has no tension.
Except in instances where the 'encounter' is meant to be an obstacle to move around (and is obviously such), I don't see how this is a problem. Putting in a combat encounter that the PCs are actually supposed to get into and then making it too difficult to win is just frustrating.
PCs often assume that because an encounter is in the module, it's balanced so they can beat it.
I would support any DM who (with fair warning) savagely broke players of that habit. If you think you can win every fight the game has no tension.
Except in instances where the 'encounter' is meant to be an obstacle to move around (and is obviously such), I don't see how this is a problem. Putting in a combat encounter that the PCs are actually supposed to get into and then making it too difficult to win is just frustrating.
dscrilla have you played through 4e material yet? as far as I can tell there's plenty of tension in regular encounters because they're quite challenging without throwing in any kobayashi maru type shit.
It's just one man's opinion, but in my book throwing an unbeatable encounter at the PCs is kind of a hack move, akin to a "press gang" or "suddenly all of your items got stolen" scenario.
PCs often assume that because an encounter is in the module, it's balanced so they can beat it.
I would support any DM who (with fair warning) savagely broke players of that habit. If you think you can win every fight the game has no tension.
Except in instances where the 'encounter' is meant to be an obstacle to move around (and is obviously such), I don't see how this is a problem. Putting in a combat encounter that the PCs are actually supposed to get into and then making it too difficult to win is just frustrating.
dscrilla have you played through 4e material yet? as far as I can tell there's plenty of tension in regular encounters because they're quite challenging without throwing in any kobayashi maru type shit.
It's just one man's opinion, but in my book throwing an unbeatable encounter at the PCs is kind of a hack move, akin to a "press gang" or "suddenly all of your items got stolen" scenario.
For example Horseshoe pitted two Jedi and a Clone Trooper against a Dark Jedi who was more powerful than the most powerful member of that crew as well as a bunch of poisonous beasties
A damn difficult fight, and we lost, but that fight never said, "You guys are going to lose if you engage."
I'd vote for a Paragon Tier module that uses three separate threats from the Feywild, Abyss and Far Realms... and forcing Warlock players to make a very serious choice somewhere along the way about where exactly they stand, given the pacts they'd have made with one of these three forces.
Hm. Kind of ambitious for a first design project, but sure, why not.
PCs often assume that because an encounter is in the module, it's balanced so they can beat it.
I would support any DM who (with fair warning) savagely broke players of that habit. If you think you can win every fight the game has no tension.
Except in instances where the 'encounter' is meant to be an obstacle to move around (and is obviously such), I don't see how this is a problem. Putting in a combat encounter that the PCs are actually supposed to get into and then making it too difficult to win is just frustrating.
dscrilla have you played through 4e material yet? as far as I can tell there's plenty of tension in regular encounters because they're quite challenging without throwing in any kobayashi maru type shit.
It's just one man's opinion, but in my book throwing an unbeatable encounter at the PCs is kind of a hack move, akin to a "press gang" or "suddenly all of your items got stolen" scenario.
For example Horseshoe pitted two Jedi and a Clone Trooper against a Dark Jedi who was more powerful than the most powerful member of that crew as well as a bunch of poisonous beasties
A damn difficult fight, and we lost, but that fight never said, "You guys are going to lose if you engage."
I know, you guys nearly won, too... and you did accomplish one of the objectives of the encounter (the crystal cave wasn't destroyed). Nar almost took her out. That was a heckuva fight.
Except in instances where the 'encounter' is meant to be an obstacle to move around (and is obviously such), I don't see how this is a problem. Putting in a combat encounter that the PCs are actually supposed to get into and then making it too difficult to win is just frustrating.
Thats how I meant it, starting combat that is clearly best avoided. I think the sleeping purple worm example would qualify.
I will start setting up the NPC's Are we using the Wiki?
I'd argue that the attack on the village should have a higher XP value(somewhere in the 750-900 range), and come in waves. If I get the go-ahead for that, I'd be more than happy to build it. A 1,500 XP Wilderness encounter is a little excessive anyway.
I'd also need to question if we have any combat capable NPCs in the village. I'm assuming no, but if whoever is in charge of creating them decides to include a powerful wizard, then it'll be kind of weird if he's just hiding around when the attack hits.
I'd argue that the attack on the village should have a higher XP value(somewhere in the 750-900 range), and come in waves. If I get the go-ahead for that, I'd be more than happy to build it. A 1,500 XP Wilderness encounter is a little excessive anyway.
Dude, reading comprehension. Do you see the space between the comma and the 500?
I'd argue that the attack on the village should have a higher XP value(somewhere in the 750-900 range), and come in waves. If I get the go-ahead for that, I'd be more than happy to build it. A 1,500 XP Wilderness encounter is a little excessive anyway.
Dude, reading comprehension. Do you see the space between the comma and the 500?
So far this is what I am thinking for the NPCs in the town and village. Since I am working with Horseshoe and treh37 I wanted to run this by them.
Fishing village, 60 people
No combat NPCs, (anyone who could fight is protecting their own family during the attack).
Village wise woman with heal, history and nature skills, maybe some rituals. She might help PCs later in the module with healing or a commune with nature ritual if they come to her for help.
Some people to rescue
Town, 1100 people (a tad smaller than Fallcrest).
I will fill in the roles Legionnaired listed in the Wiki. My instinct is to not have a magic item swap meet. Healing potions and sunrods at the Apothecary but real magic comes later.
What's the incentive for the bandits attacking a fishing village of 60 people? Are they in it just to terrorize? Did the village fail to pay protection money? Is the fish trade their rather lucrative?
Just trying to ask some leading questions to help flesh stuff out.
Also, I'm willing to do the bandit attack on the village encounter. But, my finals end on this week Tuesday so I can't promise I'll have anything up before then.
What's the incentive for the bandits attacking a fishing village of 60 people? Are they in it just to terrorize? Did the village fail to pay protection money? Is the fish trade their rather lucrative?
Just trying to ask some leading questions to help flesh stuff out.
Also, I'm willing to do the bandit attack on the village encounter. But, my finals end on this week Tuesday so I can't promise I'll have anything up before then.
Could just be simple starvation. Bandit's gotta get food somehow, and it's generally hard to maintain proper agriculture when hiding out in the monster-ridden wilderness. Assuming they can't bargain for food any other way their only hope to last out winter is raiding for it. Of course taking the villagers food will doom them to starvation making them useless for future raids, but banditry isn't generally a long term career choice. Besides if they happen to know anything about a certain mustering undead presence they might figure that preparing for the future isn't going to be an issue.
Wish I could help up more, if you've still got stuff free in a week's time (when I should hopefully have the books in hand) count me in. Till then I'm stuck nitpicking I guess.
Dude, reading comprehension. Do you see the space between the comma and the 500?
And no, please do not help.
Cruel much? All he did was miss a space, mock-worthy but nothing big.
So far this is what I am thinking for the NPCs in the town and village. Since I am working with Horseshoe and treh37 I wanted to run this by them.
Fishing village, 60 people
No combat NPCs, (anyone who could fight is protecting their own family during the attack).
Village wise woman with heal, history and nature skills, maybe some rituals. She might help PCs later in the module with healing or a commune with nature ritual if they come to her for help.
Some people to rescue
Town, 1100 people (a tad smaller than Fallcrest).
I will fill in the roles Legionnaired listed in the Wiki. My instinct is to not have a magic item swap meet. Healing potions and sunrods at the Apothecary but real magic comes later.
How does that sound?
The village wise woman is good - it fits right in with my encounter's conclusion.
Okay, I get it Horse. You're a colossal dick. But encounters don't need to be scaled by 'encounter level', just by XP. If you think otherwise, you're doing it wrong. And on the topic of reading comprehension, I suggested keeping XP balanced by taking some from the unspecified wilderness encounter. You know, I realized you were being rude, but until now I was trying to play nice. Seems like you don't understand the concept of common courtesy though, so I don't really have a choice but to fight against you to get a piece of this.
Moving on to something productive, EL 2 seems weird for an all out assault on the village. For one, if the bandit lair is an EL 3, why did they send such a small number of their men to attack the village? We could say that they did it without orders, which would make sense, but a really exciting attack should be of a higher XP value for reasons even beyond that. Why? It's simple; their focus isn't to kill the PCs, it's to wreak havoc. If I were to design the encounter, I'd have them set a fire(which is a Hazard, and would factor into the XP), and generally attack everyone in sight in the first couple rounds, only focusing on the PCs once they're recognized as a considerable threat. In this way, the first 'wave' might just be a couple bandits who decided to gun for the PCs, and after meeting considerable resistance, the others begin to trickle in to help.
What's more, having a large number of bandits attack the village doesn't break the Bandit Lair encounter. They're bandits, not freedom fighters with a cause. All the ones that aren't minions will be retreating as soon as their Hp hits the Bloodied value.
In addition, the fire opens up the possibility of a Skill Challenge that's much more interesting than 'find the lair with repeated Nature checks'. Putting out the fire can open up a long list of skills and situations, and the consequences for failure are much more evident than "try again later!" You could even link a treasure parcel that would be destroyed in the fire to success in the challenge, giving even opportunistic bastard PCs something to shoot for.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
And on the topic of reading comprehension, I suggested keeping XP balanced by taking some from the unspecified wilderness encounter.
You did misread the xp though, and you do seem to have wildly different ideas for where this should go to everybody else. It sounds like you'd be happier making your own module. There is lots of room for that and lots of new DMs who would like to see as many examples of module crafting as possible. Just go for it.
Mojo_Jojo on
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
I didn't misread the XP, I suggested a higher xp value for the encounter. And I'm not trying to steal this module away from everyone else, I'm just suggesting a few changes we could implement. If anyone is trying to hoard the design all to himself, it'd be Horseshoe, who keeps saying, "no, you're stupid for wanting to do that, we have to follow my suggestions word by word, with only minor details that fit within my framework being allowed in this". I mean I'm just making suggestions, and giving an idea of where I'd take the encounter to keep in interesting. I'm not trying to design the whole adventure, just giving ideas for parts of it. Hell, I even followed the framework put out by Horseshoe, minus the xp allotments! I just don't see how I'm conflicting with anything, unless all you want is plain old 'PCs fight X, then move on to fight Y, and then they fight Z.' Now there isn't anything wrong with that, but I don't see a problem with spicing it up a little either.
Now if anyone can find a reason why my encounter wouldn't fit the adventure, just tell me how and why. This sort of project is just asking for collaboration, and insulting people for coming up with good ideas doesn't exactly invite cooperation. I put out a suggestion, and if you don't like it, tell me why. Then I can alter it, or come up with a new idea. This way, in the end, we all have something we can all enjoy.
I have to confess... I have never edited a Wiki before. Is there a site that explains the basics to me?
Thanks!
There should be a quickstart documentation guide beneath the editing pane - however I fucked it up when I set up the CSS styles for the site, and as a result it's white-on-white.
It is generally a good idea to have one sort of "head honcho" per chapter I think.
Pure design by committee tends to come up with some very, very watered down results.
However, we should certainly make sure to be nice and polite to each other, and work constructively with each other.
I'm going to wait on designing the raid on the fishing town till the fishing town has a solid layout and a map or whatnot. I've definitely got some ideas mulling about. Some bandit archers up on a vantage point over-looking the town while the main bandit force go in for a ransom. I think I want the bandit leader to be mounted on something, I'll have to look up the rules for mounts.
I think a key part of the encounter will be having the bandits not know that the players are in the city, giving the players a chance to be sneaky and ambush the ambushing bandits.
Thanks again for the guide, this will be a good exercise in wiki literacy for me.
So Inquisitor, lets collaborate on the village a bit. You can give me some sketchy encounter ideas and i will create the victims. Its tricky for the village because most NPC interaction will be part of an encounter with bandits.
I am assuming that the encounter creator (Inquisitor) will be making the bad guys, I will focus on people who won't be getting killed by the PCs.
I don't want to tread on your role too much but here are a couple ideas for your consideration. I am assuming the bandits actually attack the village, otherwise this will be allot easier for me ;-)
The village
Rescue: a young woman holding a few bandits at bay with a quarterstaff.
Rescue, a couple of young children hiding(by the pier?) from bandits
Rescue: A woman is separeted from her family (bandits at the house) and pleads for help after seeing how badass the PC's are.
Reinforcements: If the PC's get in trouble, some villagers (inspired by the heroes) might step in to help with their slings?
aftermath: Thankful villagers, fresh fish, next steps.
aftermath: discussion with the Wise woman, she can heal the characters, help them if they are stuck with clues, maybe offer to help them in the future. She could help move the story along if the PC's miss a history check or some such.
Don't worry about treading on my role at all my friend. Hell, that list you just gave me just got my head turning with some great ideas.
Gimme a sec to figure out what the enemy party is going to be made of, how many and what classes etc. Then I think we can apply that to some more concrete scenarios.
Reinforcements: If the PC's get in trouble, some villagers (inspired by the heroes) might step in to help with their slings?
Fillet knives and harpoons.
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
Some kind of crossbow-ish spear gun would be neat for one guy to have. Maybe gimp it down mechanically though--reloading is a full-round action, or something like that.
Any fight scene near water is improved by spear guns.
Hm, I can't seem to find the rules for making custom minions.
What would do you guys think would be a good minion to convert into bandits for this encounter. Goblin cutters, perhaps?
You could use the Human Rabble, Human Bandits, and Halfling slingers. All look to be fairly suited for low-level banditry.
The rabble seem a little disorganized in my mind for the bandits running this mining operation, the other two are solid choices, and halfling stouts might make a decent choice for the minions in the encounter actually.
I'm trying to give the bandits a good racial mix to keep things interesting.
Human Guard, level 3 solider, 150 exp. - Bandit Leader, the head honcho.
Dwarf Bolter, level 2 artillery, 125 exp. - Positioned in some perch over looking the town. Is probably keeping the citizenry pinned down or keeping the players from advancing up a certain path easily. I'll manually down-level him from level 4 to level 2.
Human Bandit, level 2 skirmisher, 125 exp. - Probably off by himself trying to do something terrible to one of the lady folk of the town.
Halfling Slinger, level 1 artillery, 100exp. - He'll most likely be with the human rabble, doing the proper looting and pillaging. Cowardly, will try to use his allies as shields so he can keep slinging or get up on a roof and sling from there.
Four Human Rabble, level 2 minion, 31exp each for 124exp total. - Pillaging with the Slinger.
624 exp total for the encounter out of an allotted 625.
What do you guys think? I can give a more specific layout of their positions and their tactics once we figure out the layout of the town.
Well, I don't mind letting Horseshoe be head honcho, as long as he cools off a bit. I want to fit a neat encounter of my own creation somewhere in this thing, but I don't want to deal with some sort of tyrannical dictator if he decides he wants to repeatedly insult me for little to no reason. I'm still willing to play nice if he will.
Anyway, I'll draft out a few designs for the 'Hazardous Dungeon Corridor'. I can think of a few encounters off-hand that could be fun with a trap, a hazard, and just a few enemies. I'll throw specifics up here once I've planned things out a little more.
EDIT: Didn't want to double post, but I think I've got a solid design down. The only thing I'm not entirely sure of is whether or not the PCs are just exploring this area, or if they're pursuing someone, but I didn't assume either when designing the standard challenge. I just assumed the the PCs will have a reason to get to the other side.
Here's the traps/hazards/creatures involved:
Shrieking Maiden x2 Level 2 Warder
Trap XP 125
“These beautiful, marble-crafted sculptures depict lithe, angelic women with a pair of small feathered wings protruding from their back, leaning forward out of a wall with their arms held back as if to grip it for support. When creature’s move through its warded area, they unleash a terrible, unearthly scream.”
Trap A Blast 3 area directly in front of the Shrieking Maiden.
Perception
DC 20 – the character notices the trigger plates.
DC 25 – the character notices a control panel at the sculpture’s base
Trigger
The trap, a 3 by 3 section of the hallway, is triggered when a character moves onto or begins his turn on a trigger square. If multiple Maidens share the same trigger squares, they are triggered one at a time, rather than all at once.
Attack
Immediate Reaction Close Blast 3
Target All creatures in Blast
Attack +5 vs. Will
Hit 2d6 Thunder damage and the target is pushed 3 squares.
Miss Half damage, and the target’s movement is interrupted.
Countermeasure
-A character who makes a successful Athletics check(DC 16, or 31 without a running start) can jump over the trigger squares.
-An adjacent character can disable a trigger plate with a DC 25 Thievery check.
-A creature adjacent to the control panel can disable that statue with a DC 20 Thievery check.
-A DC 20 Dungeoneering check can grant the party a +2 bonus on Thievery checks to disable the trap.
-A character can attack a trigger plate(AC 13, other defenses 10, Hp 30, resist 5 all, immune thunder) or the statue itself(AC 16, other defenses 15, Hp 42, Resist 5 all, immune thunder)
Cave-In Level 3 Lurker
Hazard XP 150
“A disruption of some sort starts a chain reaction that causes much of the ceiling to collapse onto the floor.”
Trigger When triggered, rock and debris fall from above to fill the area with attacks. It attacks a different part of the area each turn, on its initiative.
Perception
DC 25 – The ceiling appears unstable
Additional Skill: Dungeoneering
DC 20 – Same for Perception, above
Initiative +6
Trigger
When the Screaming Maidens are first triggered. When triggered, the cave-in rolls initiative. Between the trigger and its first attack, characters know that a cave-in is beginning. On its turn, the cave-in attacks a random square in its area.
Attack
Standard Action Close Blast 2
Targets All creatures in Blast
Attack +6 vs. Reflex
Hit 1d8+3 damage
Miss Half damage
Effect The Blast area becomes difficult terrain
Sustain Standard The cave-in attacks each round, targeting a different square.
Countermeasure
-A character that makes a DC 25 Dungeoneering check as a minor action can determine the square the cave-in will attack next.
False-Floor Pit Level 1 Warder
Trap XP 100
“A covered pit is hidden near the center of the room. Timber covered with flagstones is rigged to fall when a creature walks over it, dropping the creature into a 10-foot-deep pit.”
Trap A 2 by 2 section of the floor that hides a 10-feet-deep pit
Perception
DC 20 – the character notices the false stonework.
Special – If within 5 squares
DC 15 – the character notices a muffled moaning coming from somewhere nearby
Trigger
A trap attacks when a creature enters one of its four squares.
Attack
Immediate Reaction Melee
Target The creature that triggered the trap.
Attack +4 vs. Reflex
Hit The target falls into the pit, takes 1d10 damage and falls prone
Miss Target moves to the last square it occupied and its move action ends immediately.
Effect The false floor opens and the pit is no longer hidden.
Countermeasures
-An adjacent character can trigger the trap with a DC 10 Thievery check(standard action). The floor falls into the pit.
-An adjacent character can disable the trap with a DC 25 Thievery check(standard action). The floor becomes safe.
-A character can make an Athletics check(DC 11, DC 21 without running start, DC 26 if trying to jump both Maiden triggers and pit, DC 51 if trying to do both without a running start).
-A character can climb out with a DC 15 Athletics check.
-A DC 15 Athletics check can be made to climb the Maidens, bypassing the pit.
Zombie Level 2 Brute
Medium Natural Animate XP 125
Initiative –1 Senses Perception +0; darkvision
Hp 40, Bloodied 20; see also Zombie Weakness
AC 13, Fort 13, Ref 9, Will 10
Immune Disease, Poison, Resist 10 Necrotic, Vulnerable 5 Radiant
Speed 4
bM*Slam(standard, at-will)
+6 vs. AC; 2d6+2 damage
M*Zombie Grab(standard, at-will)
+4 vs. Reflex; the target is grabbed(until escape). Checks made to escape the Zombie’s grab take a –5 penalty.
Zombie Weakness
Any critical hit to the zombie reduces it to 0 hit points immediately
Alignment Unaligned Languages –
Str 14(+3), Con 10(+1), Dex 6(-1), Int 1(-4), Wis 8(+0), Cha 3(-3)
Tactics: The 20 ft. wide hallway comes to a chokepoint halfway down, where the two Shrieking Maidens occupy 5 ft. squares against each wall. They both face at an angle down the hallway towards the entrance, their 3 by 3 section of trigger squares each starting from the opposite wall and extending towards both them entrance and them. Both Maiden take turns triggering on the 2x3 area in the center of the hallway, although only one covers each set of squares closest to the walls.
After being triggered once, the cave-in begins, attacking randomly across the half of the hallway between the Maidens and the entrance. The falling rubble can trigger the Maidens attacks, possibly creating an opening for characters, but only if the origin square is a trigger square.
The pit lies directly behind the trigger squares for the Maidens and continues back towards the exit. A character attempting to jump the Maiden’s trigger squares who lands on the pit automatically falls inside. A Zombie awaits within, gaining a surprise action before rolling Initiative. It will attempt to grab anything that falls into the pit before slamming it repeatedly, and if the trap is triggered without anyone falling inside, it will attempt to climb and jump out, requiring a successful DC 21 Strength check.
The Maiden trap is one I just created on my own, while the Cave-in is a Level 13 hazard I scaled down to fit the encounter. The False-Floor and Zombie are straight out of the DMG and MM, respectively.
I will fill in the roles Legionnaired listed in the Wiki.
actually i wrote the base town stuff so far, heres my basic idea for it
town with a nearby river on the border of the country, it gets some trade from people coming from and going to the other nation, as well as some trade from the fishing village. the river flows more or less to the fishing village (at least opens into the ocean in site of the village). and the other end leads into the mountain where a now empty mining town is, from here the party simple has to find the correct mine. the mining town is empty cause most of the mines are played out/past wars.
population wise i'm assuming we are making the town mostly human with a few half-elf and dwarves as permanent residents.
also i was thinking of making the blacksmith a dwarf and if the players talk to him at the right time he offers to buy any decent ore they find in the mines
I will fill in the roles Legionnaired listed in the Wiki.
actually i wrote the base town stuff so far, heres my basic idea for it
town with a nearby river on the border of the country, it gets some trade from people coming from and going to the other nation, as well as some trade from the fishing village. the river flows more or less to the fishing village (at least opens into the ocean in site of the village). and the other end leads into the mountain where a now empty mining town is, from here the party simple has to find the correct mine. the mining town is empty cause most of the mines are played out/past wars.
population wise I'm assuming we are making the town mostly human with a few half-elf and dwarves as permanent residents.
also i was thinking of making the blacksmith a dwarf and if the players talk to him at the right time he offers to buy any decent ore they find in the mines
Sounds good so far, I was thinking mostly humans and half elves as well.
The Dwarf Blacksmith is such a... classic character I definitely have one planned... with a twist
Well, I don't mind letting Horseshoe be head honcho, as long as he cools off a bit. I want to fit a neat encounter of my own creation somewhere in this thing, but I don't want to deal with some sort of tyrannical dictator if he decides he wants to repeatedly insult me for little to no reason. I'm still willing to play nice if he will.
Anyway, I'll draft out a few designs for the 'Hazardous Dungeon Corridor'. I can think of a few encounters off-hand that could be fun with a trap, a hazard, and just a few enemies. I'll throw specifics up here once I've planned things out a little more.
EDIT: Didn't want to double post, but I think I've got a solid design down. The only thing I'm not entirely sure of is whether or not the PCs are just exploring this area, or if they're pursuing someone, but I didn't assume either when designing the standard challenge. I just assumed the the PCs will have a reason to get to the other side.
Here's the traps/hazards/creatures involved:
Shrieking Maiden x2 Level 2 Warder
Trap XP 125
“These beautiful, marble-crafted sculptures depict lithe, angelic women with a pair of small feathered wings protruding from their back, leaning forward out of a wall with their arms held back as if to grip it for support. When creature’s move through its warded area, they unleash a terrible, unearthly scream.â€
Trap A Blast 3 area directly in front of the Shrieking Maiden.
Perception
DC 20 – the character notices the trigger plates.
DC 25 – the character notices a control panel at the sculpture’s base
Trigger
The trap, a 3 by 3 section of the hallway, is triggered when a character moves onto or begins his turn on a trigger square. If multiple Maidens share the same trigger squares, they are triggered one at a time, rather than all at once.
Attack
Immediate Reaction Close Blast 3
Target All creatures in Blast
Attack +5 vs. Will
Hit 2d6 Thunder damage and the target is pushed 3 squares.
Miss Half damage, and the target’s movement is interrupted.
Countermeasure
-A character who makes a successful Athletics check(DC 16, or 31 without a running start) can jump over the trigger squares.
-An adjacent character can disable a trigger plate with a DC 25 Thievery check.
-A creature adjacent to the control panel can disable that statue with a DC 20 Thievery check.
-A DC 20 Dungeoneering check can grant the party a +2 bonus on Thievery checks to disable the trap.
-A character can attack a trigger plate(AC 13, other defenses 10, Hp 30, resist 5 all, immune thunder) or the statue itself(AC 16, other defenses 15, Hp 42, Resist 5 all, immune thunder)
Cave-In Level 3 Lurker
Hazard XP 150
“A disruption of some sort starts a chain reaction that causes much of the ceiling to collapse onto the floor.â€
Trigger When triggered, rock and debris fall from above to fill the area with attacks. It attacks a different part of the area each turn, on its initiative.
Perception
DC 25 – The ceiling appears unstable
Additional Skill: Dungeoneering
DC 20 – Same for Perception, above
Initiative +6
Trigger
When the Screaming Maidens are first triggered. When triggered, the cave-in rolls initiative. Between the trigger and its first attack, characters know that a cave-in is beginning. On its turn, the cave-in attacks a random square in its area.
Attack
Standard Action Close Blast 2
Targets All creatures in Blast
Attack +6 vs. Reflex
Hit 1d8+3 damage
Miss Half damage
Effect The Blast area becomes difficult terrain
Sustain Standard The cave-in attacks each round, targeting a different square.
Countermeasure
-A character that makes a DC 25 Dungeoneering check as a minor action can determine the square the cave-in will attack next.
False-Floor Pit Level 1 Warder
Trap XP 100
“A covered pit is hidden near the center of the room. Timber covered with flagstones is rigged to fall when a creature walks over it, dropping the creature into a 10-foot-deep pit.â€
Trap A 2 by 2 section of the floor that hides a 10-feet-deep pit
Perception
DC 20 – the character notices the false stonework.
Special – If within 5 squares
DC 15 – the character notices a muffled moaning coming from somewhere nearby
Trigger
A trap attacks when a creature enters one of its four squares.
Attack
Immediate Reaction Melee
Target The creature that triggered the trap.
Attack +4 vs. Reflex
Hit The target falls into the pit, takes 1d10 damage and falls prone
Miss Target moves to the last square it occupied and its move action ends immediately.
Effect The false floor opens and the pit is no longer hidden.
Countermeasures
-An adjacent character can trigger the trap with a DC 10 Thievery check(standard action). The floor falls into the pit.
-An adjacent character can disable the trap with a DC 25 Thievery check(standard action). The floor becomes safe.
-A character can make an Athletics check(DC 11, DC 21 without running start, DC 26 if trying to jump both Maiden triggers and pit, DC 51 if trying to do both without a running start).
-A character can climb out with a DC 15 Athletics check.
-A DC 15 Athletics check can be made to climb the Maidens, bypassing the pit.
Zombie Level 2 Brute
Medium Natural Animate XP 125
Initiative –1 Senses Perception +0; darkvision
Hp 40, Bloodied 20; see also Zombie Weakness
AC 13, Fort 13, Ref 9, Will 10
Immune Disease, Poison, Resist 10 Necrotic, Vulnerable 5 Radiant
Speed 4
bM*Slam(standard, at-will)
+6 vs. AC; 2d6+2 damage
M*Zombie Grab(standard, at-will)
+4 vs. Reflex; the target is grabbed(until escape). Checks made to escape the Zombie’s grab take a –5 penalty.
Zombie Weakness
Any critical hit to the zombie reduces it to 0 hit points immediately
Alignment Unaligned Languages –
Str 14(+3), Con 10(+1), Dex 6(-1), Int 1(-4), Wis 8(+0), Cha 3(-3)
Tactics: The 20 ft. wide hallway comes to a chokepoint halfway down, where the two Shrieking Maidens occupy 5 ft. squares against each wall. They both face at an angle down the hallway towards the entrance, their 3 by 3 section of trigger squares each starting from the opposite wall and extending towards both them entrance and them. Both Maiden take turns triggering on the 2x3 area in the center of the hallway, although only one covers each set of squares closest to the walls.
After being triggered once, the cave-in begins, attacking randomly across the half of the hallway between the Maidens and the entrance. The falling rubble can trigger the Maidens attacks, possibly creating an opening for characters, but only if the origin square is a trigger square.
The pit lies directly behind the trigger squares for the Maidens and continues back towards the exit. A character attempting to jump the Maiden’s trigger squares who lands on the pit automatically falls inside. A Zombie awaits within, gaining a surprise action before rolling Initiative. It will attempt to grab anything that falls into the pit before slamming it repeatedly, and if the trap is triggered without anyone falling inside, it will attempt to climb and jump out, requiring a successful DC 21 Strength check.
The Maiden trap is one I just created on my own, while the Cave-in is a Level 13 hazard I scaled down to fit the encounter. The False-Floor and Zombie are straight out of the DMG and MM, respectively.
That's beautiful Zeta, I can see the party's reaction now...
Posts
Except in instances where the 'encounter' is meant to be an obstacle to move around (and is obviously such), I don't see how this is a problem. Putting in a combat encounter that the PCs are actually supposed to get into and then making it too difficult to win is just frustrating.
dscrilla have you played through 4e material yet? as far as I can tell there's plenty of tension in regular encounters because they're quite challenging without throwing in any kobayashi maru type shit.
It's just one man's opinion, but in my book throwing an unbeatable encounter at the PCs is kind of a hack move, akin to a "press gang" or "suddenly all of your items got stolen" scenario.
(which is at http://criticalfailures.com/wiki/ )
Maybe people can start adding colorful info. (with the help of the edit password - which is *80PennyArcade )
For example Horseshoe pitted two Jedi and a Clone Trooper against a Dark Jedi who was more powerful than the most powerful member of that crew as well as a bunch of poisonous beasties
A damn difficult fight, and we lost, but that fight never said, "You guys are going to lose if you engage."
Hm. Kind of ambitious for a first design project, but sure, why not.
I know, you guys nearly won, too... and you did accomplish one of the objectives of the encounter (the crystal cave wasn't destroyed). Nar almost took her out. That was a heckuva fight.
- town features (buildings and whatnot) treh37
- town npcs (for the starting town and farming village) dscrilla
- optional wilderness encounter (combat EL 1, 500xp or less) Legionnaired
- bandit attack on village (combat EL2, 625xp)
- wilderness encounter (combat EL1, 500xp)
- discovering location of bandit lair (noncombat EL1, 500xp)
- bandit lair (combat, EL3, 750xp)
- hazardous dungeon corridor (combat, EL2, 625xp)
- hidden tomb of undead baddies (combat, EL4, 750xp)
- treasure (enough parcels to cover going from level 1 to level 2)
Thats how I meant it, starting combat that is clearly best avoided. I think the sleeping purple worm example would qualify.
I will start setting up the NPC's Are we using the Wiki?
I'd also need to question if we have any combat capable NPCs in the village. I'm assuming no, but if whoever is in charge of creating them decides to include a powerful wizard, then it'll be kind of weird if he's just hiding around when the attack hits.
trey
Dude, reading comprehension. Do you see the space between the comma and the 500?
And no, please do not help.
Fishing village, 60 people
No combat NPCs, (anyone who could fight is protecting their own family during the attack).
Village wise woman with heal, history and nature skills, maybe some rituals. She might help PCs later in the module with healing or a commune with nature ritual if they come to her for help.
Some people to rescue
Town, 1100 people (a tad smaller than Fallcrest).
I will fill in the roles Legionnaired listed in the Wiki. My instinct is to not have a magic item swap meet. Healing potions and sunrods at the Apothecary but real magic comes later.
How does that sound?
Just trying to ask some leading questions to help flesh stuff out.
Also, I'm willing to do the bandit attack on the village encounter. But, my finals end on this week Tuesday so I can't promise I'll have anything up before then.
Could just be simple starvation. Bandit's gotta get food somehow, and it's generally hard to maintain proper agriculture when hiding out in the monster-ridden wilderness. Assuming they can't bargain for food any other way their only hope to last out winter is raiding for it. Of course taking the villagers food will doom them to starvation making them useless for future raids, but banditry isn't generally a long term career choice. Besides if they happen to know anything about a certain mustering undead presence they might figure that preparing for the future isn't going to be an issue.
Wish I could help up more, if you've still got stuff free in a week's time (when I should hopefully have the books in hand) count me in. Till then I'm stuck nitpicking I guess.
Cruel much? All he did was miss a space, mock-worthy but nothing big.
The village wise woman is good - it fits right in with my encounter's conclusion.
Moving on to something productive, EL 2 seems weird for an all out assault on the village. For one, if the bandit lair is an EL 3, why did they send such a small number of their men to attack the village? We could say that they did it without orders, which would make sense, but a really exciting attack should be of a higher XP value for reasons even beyond that. Why? It's simple; their focus isn't to kill the PCs, it's to wreak havoc. If I were to design the encounter, I'd have them set a fire(which is a Hazard, and would factor into the XP), and generally attack everyone in sight in the first couple rounds, only focusing on the PCs once they're recognized as a considerable threat. In this way, the first 'wave' might just be a couple bandits who decided to gun for the PCs, and after meeting considerable resistance, the others begin to trickle in to help.
What's more, having a large number of bandits attack the village doesn't break the Bandit Lair encounter. They're bandits, not freedom fighters with a cause. All the ones that aren't minions will be retreating as soon as their Hp hits the Bloodied value.
In addition, the fire opens up the possibility of a Skill Challenge that's much more interesting than 'find the lair with repeated Nature checks'. Putting out the fire can open up a long list of skills and situations, and the consequences for failure are much more evident than "try again later!" You could even link a treasure parcel that would be destroyed in the fire to success in the challenge, giving even opportunistic bastard PCs something to shoot for.
Now if anyone can find a reason why my encounter wouldn't fit the adventure, just tell me how and why. This sort of project is just asking for collaboration, and insulting people for coming up with good ideas doesn't exactly invite cooperation. I put out a suggestion, and if you don't like it, tell me why. Then I can alter it, or come up with a new idea. This way, in the end, we all have something we can all enjoy.
http://criticalfailures.com/statblocks/statblock.html
I'm going to add some recipes to our pmwiki cookbook so you'll be able to do something like...
Cool, huh?
We'll do this first chapter 'Shoe's way. He's the boss.
After this chapter, everyone gets to submit an idea.
We vote on which idea we want to do.
They put out a framework for that idea, and they become the boss.
Repeat until we have a fully functional publishing company.
Fair?
Thanks!
There should be a quickstart documentation guide beneath the editing pane - however I fucked it up when I set up the CSS styles for the site, and as a result it's white-on-white.
You can get the full documentation here:
http://criticalfailures.com/wiki/PmWiki/DocumentationIndex
I'll add a link to the front page, as well as a guide for adding statblocks/power blocks when I get the chance.
Oooh, I need to add magic item blocks as well!
Pure design by committee tends to come up with some very, very watered down results.
However, we should certainly make sure to be nice and polite to each other, and work constructively with each other.
I'm going to wait on designing the raid on the fishing town till the fishing town has a solid layout and a map or whatnot. I've definitely got some ideas mulling about. Some bandit archers up on a vantage point over-looking the town while the main bandit force go in for a ransom. I think I want the bandit leader to be mounted on something, I'll have to look up the rules for mounts.
I think a key part of the encounter will be having the bandits not know that the players are in the city, giving the players a chance to be sneaky and ambush the ambushing bandits.
So Inquisitor, lets collaborate on the village a bit. You can give me some sketchy encounter ideas and i will create the victims. Its tricky for the village because most NPC interaction will be part of an encounter with bandits.
I am assuming that the encounter creator (Inquisitor) will be making the bad guys, I will focus on people who won't be getting killed by the PCs.
I don't want to tread on your role too much but here are a couple ideas for your consideration. I am assuming the bandits actually attack the village, otherwise this will be allot easier for me ;-)
The village
Rescue: a young woman holding a few bandits at bay with a quarterstaff.
Rescue, a couple of young children hiding(by the pier?) from bandits
Rescue: A woman is separeted from her family (bandits at the house) and pleads for help after seeing how badass the PC's are.
Reinforcements: If the PC's get in trouble, some villagers (inspired by the heroes) might step in to help with their slings?
aftermath: Thankful villagers, fresh fish, next steps.
aftermath: discussion with the Wise woman, she can heal the characters, help them if they are stuck with clues, maybe offer to help them in the future. She could help move the story along if the PC's miss a history check or some such.
Gimme a sec to figure out what the enemy party is going to be made of, how many and what classes etc. Then I think we can apply that to some more concrete scenarios.
Fillet knives and harpoons.
Any fight scene near water is improved by spear guns.
What would do you guys think would be a good minion to convert into bandits for this encounter. Goblin cutters, perhaps?
You could use the Human Rabble, Human Bandits, and Halfling slingers. All look to be fairly suited for low-level banditry.
The rabble seem a little disorganized in my mind for the bandits running this mining operation, the other two are solid choices, and halfling stouts might make a decent choice for the minions in the encounter actually.
I'm trying to give the bandits a good racial mix to keep things interesting.
Human Guard, level 3 solider, 150 exp. - Bandit Leader, the head honcho.
Dwarf Bolter, level 2 artillery, 125 exp. - Positioned in some perch over looking the town. Is probably keeping the citizenry pinned down or keeping the players from advancing up a certain path easily. I'll manually down-level him from level 4 to level 2.
Human Bandit, level 2 skirmisher, 125 exp. - Probably off by himself trying to do something terrible to one of the lady folk of the town.
Halfling Slinger, level 1 artillery, 100exp. - He'll most likely be with the human rabble, doing the proper looting and pillaging. Cowardly, will try to use his allies as shields so he can keep slinging or get up on a roof and sling from there.
Four Human Rabble, level 2 minion, 31exp each for 124exp total. - Pillaging with the Slinger.
624 exp total for the encounter out of an allotted 625.
What do you guys think? I can give a more specific layout of their positions and their tactics once we figure out the layout of the town.
http://criticalfailures.com/wiki/Site/StatblockGuide
Wow, that took a lot longer than I thought. I've been working on that for almost 2 hours straight...
It's worth it though, for perfectly formatted statblocks
I'm going to add in code for powers and such later, when it comes time to start writing splatbooks.
Anyway, I'll draft out a few designs for the 'Hazardous Dungeon Corridor'. I can think of a few encounters off-hand that could be fun with a trap, a hazard, and just a few enemies. I'll throw specifics up here once I've planned things out a little more.
EDIT: Didn't want to double post, but I think I've got a solid design down. The only thing I'm not entirely sure of is whether or not the PCs are just exploring this area, or if they're pursuing someone, but I didn't assume either when designing the standard challenge. I just assumed the the PCs will have a reason to get to the other side.
Here's the traps/hazards/creatures involved:
Trap XP 125
“These beautiful, marble-crafted sculptures depict lithe, angelic women with a pair of small feathered wings protruding from their back, leaning forward out of a wall with their arms held back as if to grip it for support. When creature’s move through its warded area, they unleash a terrible, unearthly scream.”
Trap A Blast 3 area directly in front of the Shrieking Maiden.
Perception
DC 20 – the character notices the trigger plates.
DC 25 – the character notices a control panel at the sculpture’s base
Trigger
The trap, a 3 by 3 section of the hallway, is triggered when a character moves onto or begins his turn on a trigger square. If multiple Maidens share the same trigger squares, they are triggered one at a time, rather than all at once.
Attack
Immediate Reaction Close Blast 3
Target All creatures in Blast
Attack +5 vs. Will
Hit 2d6 Thunder damage and the target is pushed 3 squares.
Miss Half damage, and the target’s movement is interrupted.
Countermeasure
-A character who makes a successful Athletics check(DC 16, or 31 without a running start) can jump over the trigger squares.
-An adjacent character can disable a trigger plate with a DC 25 Thievery check.
-A creature adjacent to the control panel can disable that statue with a DC 20 Thievery check.
-A DC 20 Dungeoneering check can grant the party a +2 bonus on Thievery checks to disable the trap.
-A character can attack a trigger plate(AC 13, other defenses 10, Hp 30, resist 5 all, immune thunder) or the statue itself(AC 16, other defenses 15, Hp 42, Resist 5 all, immune thunder)
Cave-In Level 3 Lurker
Hazard XP 150
“A disruption of some sort starts a chain reaction that causes much of the ceiling to collapse onto the floor.”
Trigger When triggered, rock and debris fall from above to fill the area with attacks. It attacks a different part of the area each turn, on its initiative.
Perception
DC 25 – The ceiling appears unstable
Additional Skill: Dungeoneering
DC 20 – Same for Perception, above
Initiative +6
Trigger
When the Screaming Maidens are first triggered. When triggered, the cave-in rolls initiative. Between the trigger and its first attack, characters know that a cave-in is beginning. On its turn, the cave-in attacks a random square in its area.
Attack
Standard Action Close Blast 2
Targets All creatures in Blast
Attack +6 vs. Reflex
Hit 1d8+3 damage
Miss Half damage
Effect The Blast area becomes difficult terrain
Sustain Standard The cave-in attacks each round, targeting a different square.
Countermeasure
-A character that makes a DC 25 Dungeoneering check as a minor action can determine the square the cave-in will attack next.
False-Floor Pit Level 1 Warder
Trap XP 100
“A covered pit is hidden near the center of the room. Timber covered with flagstones is rigged to fall when a creature walks over it, dropping the creature into a 10-foot-deep pit.”
Trap A 2 by 2 section of the floor that hides a 10-feet-deep pit
Perception
DC 20 – the character notices the false stonework.
Special – If within 5 squares
DC 15 – the character notices a muffled moaning coming from somewhere nearby
Trigger
A trap attacks when a creature enters one of its four squares.
Attack
Immediate Reaction Melee
Target The creature that triggered the trap.
Attack +4 vs. Reflex
Hit The target falls into the pit, takes 1d10 damage and falls prone
Miss Target moves to the last square it occupied and its move action ends immediately.
Effect The false floor opens and the pit is no longer hidden.
Countermeasures
-An adjacent character can trigger the trap with a DC 10 Thievery check(standard action). The floor falls into the pit.
-An adjacent character can disable the trap with a DC 25 Thievery check(standard action). The floor becomes safe.
-A character can make an Athletics check(DC 11, DC 21 without running start, DC 26 if trying to jump both Maiden triggers and pit, DC 51 if trying to do both without a running start).
-A character can climb out with a DC 15 Athletics check.
-A DC 15 Athletics check can be made to climb the Maidens, bypassing the pit.
Zombie Level 2 Brute
Medium Natural Animate XP 125
Initiative –1 Senses Perception +0; darkvision
Hp 40, Bloodied 20; see also Zombie Weakness
AC 13, Fort 13, Ref 9, Will 10
Immune Disease, Poison, Resist 10 Necrotic, Vulnerable 5 Radiant
Speed 4
bM*Slam(standard, at-will)
+6 vs. AC; 2d6+2 damage
M*Zombie Grab(standard, at-will)
+4 vs. Reflex; the target is grabbed(until escape). Checks made to escape the Zombie’s grab take a –5 penalty.
Zombie Weakness
Any critical hit to the zombie reduces it to 0 hit points immediately
Alignment Unaligned Languages –
Str 14(+3), Con 10(+1), Dex 6(-1), Int 1(-4), Wis 8(+0), Cha 3(-3)
Tactics: The 20 ft. wide hallway comes to a chokepoint halfway down, where the two Shrieking Maidens occupy 5 ft. squares against each wall. They both face at an angle down the hallway towards the entrance, their 3 by 3 section of trigger squares each starting from the opposite wall and extending towards both them entrance and them. Both Maiden take turns triggering on the 2x3 area in the center of the hallway, although only one covers each set of squares closest to the walls.
After being triggered once, the cave-in begins, attacking randomly across the half of the hallway between the Maidens and the entrance. The falling rubble can trigger the Maidens attacks, possibly creating an opening for characters, but only if the origin square is a trigger square.
The pit lies directly behind the trigger squares for the Maidens and continues back towards the exit. A character attempting to jump the Maiden’s trigger squares who lands on the pit automatically falls inside. A Zombie awaits within, gaining a surprise action before rolling Initiative. It will attempt to grab anything that falls into the pit before slamming it repeatedly, and if the trap is triggered without anyone falling inside, it will attempt to climb and jump out, requiring a successful DC 21 Strength check.
The Maiden trap is one I just created on my own, while the Cave-in is a Level 13 hazard I scaled down to fit the encounter. The False-Floor and Zombie are straight out of the DMG and MM, respectively.
actually i wrote the base town stuff so far, heres my basic idea for it
town with a nearby river on the border of the country, it gets some trade from people coming from and going to the other nation, as well as some trade from the fishing village. the river flows more or less to the fishing village (at least opens into the ocean in site of the village). and the other end leads into the mountain where a now empty mining town is, from here the party simple has to find the correct mine. the mining town is empty cause most of the mines are played out/past wars.
population wise i'm assuming we are making the town mostly human with a few half-elf and dwarves as permanent residents.
also i was thinking of making the blacksmith a dwarf and if the players talk to him at the right time he offers to buy any decent ore they find in the mines
trey
Sounds good so far, I was thinking mostly humans and half elves as well.
The Dwarf Blacksmith is such a... classic character I definitely have one planned... with a twist
That's beautiful Zeta, I can see the party's reaction now...
'hah, it's just one zombie, lets get it!'
'uhh, you don't want to ...'
*charge*
*SHIREEEEEKKKKKK* *SHRREIIIIIIKKK* *rumble rumble rumble*
'ohshi'
*rocks fall you die*