Finished Dust of Dreams today. I don't think I have check in since I started reading Toll the Hounds, so I'll include a couple thoughts from both of them.
Toll the Hounds spoilers
Although I know there is some hate for this book, I liked it pretty well. I guess I have to agree that it was slower in many points than some of the other ones, but I was enjoying some of the characterization and stuff. The convergence at the end was awesome, as they always are. I have a couple questions though.
So. . . what was the deal with Humble Measure and the bridgeburners? Humble Measure wanted K'rul's old temple for some reason? The ending to that was pretty underwhelming since it was one of the main storylines of the book that was basically just resolved by Fisher going out and saying knock it off. Boom problem solved. I don't remember Picker's unconciousness leading anywhere either. I like any time I get to read about the Malazan marines, but i wish that this would have went somewhere.
Conversely, although not very epic, I really enjoyed the whole arc with the kid in the mine. I was rooting hard for that guy. The whole thing with Murillio was the saddest death in this book too, IMO.
Was the whole convergence thing even necessary? It seemed like it happened just because Shadowthrone and Cotillion sent in the Hounds, which led to all the crazy stuff after that. Could they have just not sent in the hounds? Why did Anomander let Dassem kill him? Couldn't he have just stabbed himself? And why did Mother Dark decide to come back all the sudden. Because the gate stopped moving? All that shit was confusing.
Anyway, fun book. I'm sure I had lots of other thoughts on it, but its been a while.
Okay, let's see what all I remember.
Humble Measure is...well, he's kinda a racist, I guess? Paranoid freak who's sure that the Malazan soldiers are actually still part of the Empire and are part of some plot to take over the city, so he wants them to all be killed. Period. Also, yes, he wants K'rul's bar, particularly something underneath of it. Also, that's not resolved yet. I believe Humble Measure is still a major factor in Orb, Scepter, Throne.
Picker learns something in the dream world which led to what she told Karsa which does matter.
Now some stuff which DOESN'T go anywhere with the Malazan marines were the Seguleh which were found in the basement, but hoping we'll find more about that in OST.
I liked the kid's plotline a lot more once it was pointed out to me that it's a bit of a parallel to the Tiste Andii storyline. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details of how all those line up well enough to be able to rattle them off. Unfortunately, this storyline IS the worst timeline culprit - kid's WAAAAAY too old for how long it's supposed to have been since MoI.
Convergence didn't occur because of the Hounds, convergence occurred because Dragnipur was going to be ownerless. See, Hood was summoned to the city because of his magus (I think it was) consecrating the city in a specific pattern by murdering people - that's the storyline of the dude who was punching people to death. Hood and Rake had made a deal where Rake would pull Hood inside of Dragnipur to face Chaos with the armies of the dead. Hood did so for *RAFO* reasons, and it allowed Rake to cease the burden of Dragnipur, head inside himself, and basically *force* Mother Dark to pay attention to her children again because without his sacrifice Dark itself would have been consumed by Chaos. Traveler came to Daru because Hood was going to manifest completely there, but he was delayed long enough that he was not able to face Hood prior to Rake lopping his head off, leading to Rake having to fight Traveler in his anguish - I suppose he could have stabbed himself, yeah. The convergence happened because a bunch of people wanted to take Dragnipur for themselves, and other folks were upholding their end of the bargain to prevent that from happening.
Dust of Dreams spoilers
I liked this book quite a bit as well. Still bored to tears with the Shake, but I have been assured they will pan out. Crappy that it ended on a cliffhanger, but whatever. I can start on the Crippled God as soon as I am recovered sufficiently. Here are my questions, for any of those inclined to give their thoughts
So, the short tails were coming through a rent from some warren or another, and ghost Icarium plugged it with the Errant's eye, correct? Where were the short tails hiding out?
What were Sinn and Grub doing that whole time? I know they were kind of just checking out the new warrens, but was there any use to that or were they just being irresponsible? Their army needed them dammit!
Tear for Tool (one of my faves) and tear for the Bonehunters.
I imagine it will become more resolved in the next book, but I never understood either of the "aimlessly wander through the desert" storylines of either the ribby snake or Taxilian's posse. I didn't even understand until the end that the snake was a trail of a bunch of kids with 4 or 5 adults or adolescents. Were they mentioned before this book? Was I supposed to be able to understand any what was going on with them? (or Taxilian's group for that matter)
I actually am confused about a lot of the storylines, but I figure they will be cleared up in the Crippled God, so I guess I will just hold back on most of them.
Well, pretty excited to start on the Crippled God. Probably in the next couple books. I shall miss ye "Tale of the Fall of the Malazan Empire"
K'Chain Nah'ruk had been sealed within their warren since the war way back when, and broke out recently. That's where they'd been hanging out and reproducing.
Not 100% sure about the point of Sinn and Grubb in the new warrens, myself. Might get more out of that on a re-read. There's a bit to it which will come out in the next novel, but it's more to the nature of one of them than anything.
Taxilian's posse was...going to quote from Malazan Empire.
Taxillian is a native from Seven City's that come back on the Edur fleet. He was on the same ship as Karsa and his pet witch. Rautos was the head of the Liberty Consign and was also trying to figure out the parts of the machine in his back yard. Both where killed when Icarium used the machine in letheres. Now just a last remember that machine was broken, and some thing went wrong involving their memories when they where killed in the blast of white light.
You've finished DoD so I don't think there's any spoilers left with this, but that should put it together for you. It's a really confusing story but was one of those "AH HA!" moment things.
The snake is less a point unto itself and more just to show how fucking insane the Forkrul Assail are, I guess, and...well, there's a little more point in the next novel but still not really. To me they're kinda the embodiment of "Erikson can't write poetry" :P
Crippled God will wrap up a LOT, but not nearly everything.
re: Knowledge escalation. Yeah, that's a thing, but at least it normally tends to happen only amongst a) officers in the Malazan Army, b) people like Quick Ben/Kalam/etc who are otherwise connected. Quick Ben knows everything, I guess, but at least the officers seem apt to share that sort of knowledge, albeit offscreen. But yeah, definitely a thing.
Finished Stonewielder over the weekend. I enjoyed RotCG more, but that has more to do with what happened in it - I think ICE continued to improve his writing. He still kinda sucks at picking out names, though.
Whole series spoilers:
The Lady being The Chained God actually surprised me, although in retrospect I've got no idea why. Was kinda weird that this seemed to be a separate sentience ever, though. The concept of the Stormwall as a giant altar for blood sacrifice is fantastic. I gather that the Stormriders meant to make some sort of regular pilgrimage, which the Stormwall blocked. Why would TCG want to stop this in the first place? One can only assume that their seeking to destroy his parts occurred due to the wall and the blood sacrifice in the first place. Why were they trying to penetrate through Malaz in Night of Knives? I feel like they're just acting as this giant plot device without giving any real or proper motivation. Really, too many "hints without reveals" at this point. What's at the root of the vow? What is with the gold eyes/Assail stuff with Kyle? Where are the Disavowed going/what are they up to? Seriously, what the hell is up with the Stormriders?
Also, Manask is awesome. That is all.
Also - so Kiska and Leoman ended up on the Shore. We never saw them in DoD or TCG, right? Just want to make sure I'm not crazy
My friend has been reading the Crippled God for the first time so I have been re-reading it alongside him. I should be finished in the next day or so, and I'm gonna move straight onto Orb Sceptre Throne right after that. I'm really looking forward to OST, Crimson Guard and Stonewielder were both great.
I found it disappointing. Different POV's is fun! Different POV's every 4 sentences is not fun.
Erikson does something similar at the end of novels, which you can somehow understand as he relates the same or sequential events for a short period, but in OSC the average POV length was probably 1/5th of that in the rest of the series. It really bugged me.
Is it already out in the UK? They had gotten the gap between USA-UK down to almost nothing. Guess they don't bother with Esselmont's books. It's not out until April here.
Is it already out in the UK? They had gotten the gap between USA-UK down to almost nothing. Guess they don't bother with Esselmont's books. It's not out until April here.
I want to say they were closer then it got pushed back for whatever reason at the end of last year.
So, does Return of the Crimson Guard elaborate on people we already know, or is pretty much an entirely new cast (excluding, I imagine, Seren's buddies from MT). It seems interesting, but I have been reading almost exlusively Malazan for like the last year, so if it doesn't elaborate on people I already care about, it might need to be on the back-burner for a while.
So, does Return of the Crimson Guard elaborate on people we already know, or is pretty much an entirely new cast (excluding, I imagine, Seren's buddies from MT). It seems interesting, but I have been reading almost exlusively Malazan for like the last year, so if it doesn't elaborate on people I already care about, it might need to be on the back-burner for a while.
It's half and half. Temper from Night of Knives is there. Laseen, Korbolo Dom, Mallick Rel, Nil & Nether from Deadhouse Gates. A few Crimson Guardsmen (obviously) that we had met very briefly before. A couple of the 'Old Guard' that were supposed to have drowned. It deals a lot with the fallout from the Seven Cities rebellion and the Wickans.
Is it already out in the UK? They had gotten the gap between USA-UK down to almost nothing. Guess they don't bother with Esselmont's books. It's not out until April here.
Fuck paperbacks, yo! ;oP
0
Options
spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
re: Knowledge escalation. Yeah, that's a thing, but at least it normally tends to happen only amongst a) officers in the Malazan Army, b) people like Quick Ben/Kalam/etc who are otherwise connected. Quick Ben knows everything, I guess, but at least the officers seem apt to share that sort of knowledge, albeit offscreen. But yeah, definitely a thing.
While it was only important people, I did not mind. It wasn't even really jarring until I went back and reread the first book. But in the later books, it seems like
all of the grunts in the Bonehunters literally know more than any high mage knew in the first book. I think that a lot of the problem is that Erickson's desire to make the Bonehunters into the new Bridgeburners doesn't really work, so we are left with a whole slew of characters that are supposed to be more interesting and important than they are.
When it came to everyone in the Bonehunters knowing everything I figured it was because of Fiddler. Fiddler knows alot from his time in the Bridgeburners hanging around with Whiskeyjack and Quick Ben. When he joins up with the Bonehunters he meets Cuttle who becomes his new mate and i figured he tells him some stuff which slowly spreads throughout the marine contingent. Remember they basically march across 2 entire continents and an ocean over the books so thats a lot of time to talk and think about things.
All the people who know stuff amongst the Bonehunters are attached to the Marines so its them who know stuff. Theres only 1000 of them and 9/10ths of the Bonehunters are just probaly wondering what the hell is going on most of the time
0
Options
spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
When it came to everyone in the Bonehunters knowing everything I figured it was because of Fiddler. Fiddler knows alot from his time in the Bridgeburners hanging around with Whiskeyjack and Quick Ben. When he joins up with the Bonehunters he meets Cuttle who becomes his new mate and i figured he tells him some stuff which slowly spreads throughout the marine contingent. Remember they basically march across 2 entire continents and an ocean over the books so thats a lot of time to talk and think about things.
All the people who know stuff amongst the Bonehunters are attached to the Marines so its them who know stuff. Theres only 1000 of them and 9/10ths of the Bonehunters are just probaly wondering what the hell is going on most of the time
Fiddler really doesn't strike me as the chatty type though. I think the knowledge escalation was done so that all the characters could understand the implications of actions on a similiar level to the reader. I understand the motivation in doing it, but I would personally have preferred if he just limitted reactions on things like the
So, does Return of the Crimson Guard elaborate on people we already know, or is pretty much an entirely new cast (excluding, I imagine, Seren's buddies from MT). It seems interesting, but I have been reading almost exlusively Malazan for like the last year, so if it doesn't elaborate on people I already care about, it might need to be on the back-burner for a while.
It's half and half. Temper from Night of Knives is there. Laseen, Korbolo Dom, Mallick Rel, Nil & Nether from Deadhouse Gates. A few Crimson Guardsmen (obviously) that we had met very briefly before. A couple of the 'Old Guard' that were supposed to have drowned. It deals a lot with the fallout from the Seven Cities rebellion and the Wickans.
Oh, thats good. I probably will read it before too long then. Though I just started Crippled God, I really wanted to know what was happening back there. I like the direction of the books, but considering that the books are supposedly about the Malazan empire, since Midnight Tides only the Bonehunters has really had anything to do with the Malazan empire. Thats fully 5 books in a ten book series (assuming the Crippled God doesn't tie in heavily, which is probably a bad assumption but whatevs)
Whoah, Laseen is dead? That happened off screen right? It wasn't just some major plot point that I missed? I guess that is probably something that happened in RotCG. Damn, now I kind of wish I had read it already. Oh well. Wasn't expecting that. As far as I have gotten they haven't said who the new emperor is, but I am assuming its Korbolo Dom or Mallick Rel. Damn those fuckers. No wonder the empire has gone to shit.
Finished Stonewielder. Enjoyed it a good deal once it got rolling. Manask really is pretty awesome.
And the thing with Bars? OUCH.
Yeah. Seriously.
And yeah, burbo, that's one of the two things in RotCG which kinda-sorta influences stuff in the main series. The other one is a throwaway reference in Toll the Hounds which you probably overlooked because a character you know refers to another character you don't, from a point they were together in RotCG.
I'm betting that you are referring to the Segulah dude and Skinner. I was aware that Skinner was some kind of ultra bad ass from some talk about him in Midnight Tides.
Actually, no - one of the characters which is shared which wasn't listed is Traveler. In TtH he makes some comments about someone he met in RotCG. It's....completely unimportant to the plot of TtH, really.
There is quite a bit of Skinner in RotCG, though. :P
Actually, no - one of the characters which is shared which wasn't listed is Traveler. In TtH he makes some comments about someone he met in RotCG. It's....completely unimportant to the plot of TtH, really.
There is quite a bit of Skinner in RotCG, though. :P
The only trouble with Skinner is I can't help but hear Superintendant Chalmers voice whenever anyone calls his name!
So the TOR reread is pretty good. They made an odd choice on reading order though. Gardens of the Moon, then Night of Knives. Apparently the authors recommended it this way though. I'm towards the end of NoK.
NoK and Deadhouse Gates/Memories of Ice spoilers
One thing this spoils is the existence of the Claw. Previously, we found out about it from Baudin and his past. Not sure it has the same weight read this way. It doesn't spoil Baudin's membership, but I would guess it is obvious after Felisin finds his Claw token. Maybe that just makes it a nice moment for a careful reader though.
It also makes the Shadowthrone/Cotillion=Kellanved/Dancer connection more obvious, but I think you're supposed to have figured that out by the end of GotM.
It also further muddies the waters on Tayschrenn. I'm not sure what I think about this. I think it might help because all through GotM, Tay is basically the badguy, or at least the Bridgeburners' nemesis. This book sets him up as maybe not such a bad guy after all. Then in MoI, we see that he's been part of the long con all this time.
The reread also helped pick out some definite GotMisms that I had missed. The main one is the "bone phone" that Whiskeyjack and Dujek use to talk. Those never show up again later, despite the fact that they would be incredibly useful throughout MoI.
Anyway, I try not to lose too much thought on GotMisms. Take the loose concepts and characters and just forget the details, otherwise I'd be pulling my hair out at the things that were later changed/modified/retconned/deliberately forgotten.
So the TOR reread is pretty good. They made an odd choice on reading order though. Gardens of the Moon, then Night of Knives. Apparently the authors recommended it this way though. I'm towards the end of NoK.
NoK and Deadhouse Gates/Memories of Ice spoilers
One thing this spoils is the existence of the Claw. Previously, we found out about it from Baudin and his past. Not sure it has the same weight read this way. It doesn't spoil Baudin's membership, but I would guess it is obvious after Felisin finds his Claw token. Maybe that just makes it a nice moment for a careful reader though.
It also makes the Shadowthrone/Cotillion=Kellanved/Dancer connection more obvious, but I think you're supposed to have figured that out by the end of GotM.
It also further muddies the waters on Tayschrenn. I'm not sure what I think about this. I think it might help because all through GotM, Tay is basically the badguy, or at least the Bridgeburners' nemesis. This book sets him up as maybe not such a bad guy after all. Then in MoI, we see that he's been part of the long con all this time.
The reread also helped pick out some definite GotMisms that I had missed. The main one is the "bone phone" that Whiskeyjack and Dujek use to talk. Those never show up again later, despite the fact that they would be incredibly useful throughout MoI.
I'd always read that published order was the preferred version, which would put NoK between Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters (my personal preferred order, by the by).
And yeah, it really does point out a lot of GotMisms. Gets even worse when you start keeping track of timelines, particularly around TtH. Apparently OST makes it even worse
I think part of why NoK would be better after Gardens is because you get a lot more out of the story once you're invested in the world and the established characters. Looking back at their back stories rather than starting with them as an unknown quantity.
So the TOR reread is pretty good. They made an odd choice on reading order though. Gardens of the Moon, then Night of Knives. Apparently the authors recommended it this way though. I'm towards the end of NoK.
NoK and Deadhouse Gates/Memories of Ice spoilers
One thing this spoils is the existence of the Claw. Previously, we found out about it from Baudin and his past. Not sure it has the same weight read this way. It doesn't spoil Baudin's membership, but I would guess it is obvious after Felisin finds his Claw token. Maybe that just makes it a nice moment for a careful reader though.
It also makes the Shadowthrone/Cotillion=Kellanved/Dancer connection more obvious, but I think you're supposed to have figured that out by the end of GotM.
It also further muddies the waters on Tayschrenn. I'm not sure what I think about this. I think it might help because all through GotM, Tay is basically the badguy, or at least the Bridgeburners' nemesis. This book sets him up as maybe not such a bad guy after all. Then in MoI, we see that he's been part of the long con all this time.
The reread also helped pick out some definite GotMisms that I had missed. The main one is the "bone phone" that Whiskeyjack and Dujek use to talk. Those never show up again later, despite the fact that they would be incredibly useful throughout MoI.
I'd always read that published order was the preferred version, which would put NoK between Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters (my personal preferred order, by the by).
And yeah, it really does point out a lot of GotMisms. Gets even worse when you start keeping track of timelines, particularly around TtH. Apparently OST makes it even worse
Apparently ICE and SE both said NoK after GotM. There's some good and bad to the decision.
Yeah I did mix up my assassins, you got what I meant though :P
And GotMisms don't actually bother me that much. It's almost like a scavenger hunt. The one thing that actually bothers me isn't totally a GotMism
In GotM we are led to believe that Tayschrenn and Laseen are out to kill off the Bridgeburners as part of the Old Guard purge. But then later, it is revealed that that is not the case. Same thing with Shadowthrone/Cotillion possessing Sorry to try and hurt or kill the Empress. Then in later books, they don't want to kill Laseen anymore. The about face of both parties isn't really adequately explained, in my opinion.
I think part of why NoK would be better after Gardens is because you get a lot more out of the story once you're invested in the world and the established characters. Looking back at their back stories rather than starting with them as an unknown quantity.
Well the published order, and the read order before the authors told them they should switch it, was to read Night of Knives somewhere well down the line from GotM. At least after Memories of Ice, I would think. Reading NoK first was never an option, you're right. Even though it is chronologically first.
So the TOR reread is pretty good. They made an odd choice on reading order though. Gardens of the Moon, then Night of Knives. Apparently the authors recommended it this way though. I'm towards the end of NoK.
NoK and Deadhouse Gates/Memories of Ice spoilers
One thing this spoils is the existence of the Claw. Previously, we found out about it from Baudin and his past. Not sure it has the same weight read this way. It doesn't spoil Baudin's membership, but I would guess it is obvious after Felisin finds his Claw token. Maybe that just makes it a nice moment for a careful reader though.
It also makes the Shadowthrone/Cotillion=Kellanved/Dancer connection more obvious, but I think you're supposed to have figured that out by the end of GotM.
It also further muddies the waters on Tayschrenn. I'm not sure what I think about this. I think it might help because all through GotM, Tay is basically the badguy, or at least the Bridgeburners' nemesis. This book sets him up as maybe not such a bad guy after all. Then in MoI, we see that he's been part of the long con all this time.
The reread also helped pick out some definite GotMisms that I had missed. The main one is the "bone phone" that Whiskeyjack and Dujek use to talk. Those never show up again later, despite the fact that they would be incredibly useful throughout MoI.
I'd always read that published order was the preferred version, which would put NoK between Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters (my personal preferred order, by the by).
And yeah, it really does point out a lot of GotMisms. Gets even worse when you start keeping track of timelines, particularly around TtH. Apparently OST makes it even worse
Apparently ICE and SE both said NoK after GotM. There's some good and bad to the decision.
Yeah I did mix up my assassins, you got what I meant though :P
And GotMisms don't actually bother me that much. It's almost like a scavenger hunt. The one thing that actually bothers me isn't totally a GotMism
In GotM we are led to believe that Tayschrenn and Laseen are out to kill off the Bridgeburners as part of the Old Guard purge. But then later, it is revealed that that is not the case. Same thing with Shadowthrone/Cotillion possessing Sorry to try and hurt or kill the Empress. Then in later books, they don't want to kill Laseen anymore. The about face of both parties isn't really adequately explained, in my opinion.
The latter one can kinda be handwaved away
as a matter of "that's what they started with, then they realized that the Empire might be necessary, of sorts, to deal with TCG stuff. There's a hint that they're aware something else might be coming on the horizon in the beginning of GotM, but yeah, that one's pretty hamfisted.
Old Guard purge is...well, yeah. It screams of retconning past actions to match current needs, and I think you basically have to go "they change their minds on how things would proceed in the decade after GotM was written."
That's what I usually chalk it up to. It's really only annoying when reading GotM, having read the rest of the series. We don't get a POV from any of those characters, but a scene where they explain to someone "I changed my mind because..." would go a long way. Although that's not really Erikson's style. After GotM, everything matches up pretty well.
So in some of the forewords, Erikson talks about having gamed a lot of this. I get the idea that he and Esselmont GMed for different campaigns in different regions of the world. I wonder what was gamed, and who was DMing, and who played who.
I think the Northern Genebackis Campaign was gamed, Blackdog, Nathilog, etc. There seems to be a lot of history there that we only ever get a glimpse at.
I wonder if the start of the Empire was gamed. That's another area where a lot of history seems to exist, but the books only touch on it.
So in some of the forewords, Erikson talks about having gamed a lot of this. I get the idea that he and Esselmont GMed for different campaigns in different regions of the world. I wonder what was gamed, and who was DMing, and who played who.
I think the Northern Genebackis Campaign was gamed, Blackdog, Nathilog, etc. There seems to be a lot of history there that we only ever get a glimpse at.
I wonder if the start of the Empire was gamed. That's another area where a lot of history seems to exist, but the books only touch on it.
I asked this question in the HoC Q&A at the Reread of the Fallen.
26% of the way through Crippled God so far. Impressions:
I'm really enjoying the general tone of the novel so far, for the most part. It really feels like shit is all coming to a head. The meeting between Tavore and her allies was great (although it still doesn't give us info about Tavore, which is ok). It all just feels so grim, yet epic. The Shake stuff is starting to become passably interesting, the Snake still sucks. The scene between Cotillion and Lostara Yil was fantastic. Cotillion pretty much is the best god.
I like the Tool storyline thus far, even if is the same every time we get back to him "I'm going to kill some shit, nothing can dissuade me. I'm deadly as fuck". Ijust like the general idea that being denied death after what happened to his family has driven him to become this implacable killing machine. Some clarification on one point would be nice, if you guys have it.
There was some stuff about how Tool became clanless because Dassem Ultor was the new First Sword. I guess that made him immortal and so Hood wouldn't let him die? Thats why he hates Hood (along with something about his daughter). So apparently Dassem is the Lord of Tragedy, some kind of god. We haven't seen him referred to as a god before have we? Where are his followers? Also, there was a line about a piece of him becoming a god as well. An earlier mention said something about Dessembrae killing Hood. These words, along with the similarity in names is making me guess that Dessembrae is Dassem's daughter. Am I on the right track? Dessembrae is the queen of dreams, right? And the spider goddess that busted the moon somehow that Pust's wife draws power from? I dunno, I'm confused.
Its been a fun read so far, I'm already excited for the weekend to start so I can get some heavy duty reading time in.
Dassembrae is Dassem, he became the Lord of Tragedy. So far as I know, his daughter was taken by Hood for some reason, that's what made him mad at Hood.
The spider goddess that Mogara serves is Ardata. I don't think she's involved with Dassem, but I don't remember.
I forget what happened to Tool, can't help you there.
I have reached Deadhouse Gates on my reread. That prologue is still so great and shocking.
There was some stuff about how Tool became clanless because Dassem Ultor was the new First Sword. I guess that made him immortal and so Hood wouldn't let him die? Thats why he hates Hood (along with something about his daughter). So apparently Dassem is the Lord of Tragedy, some kind of god. We haven't seen him referred to as a god before have we?
It's mentioned in Bonehunters. I think it's when the Knight of Death talks to Heboric + Cutter in the empty temple of Drek, but I could be mistaken.
The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
The queen of dreams is T'riss, who we've seen in the Bonehunters when Leoman escaped Y'ghatan. She also pops up in Stonewielder.
As for Dassem's daughter, wasn't she one of those people that were in suspended animation/dead in an Azath house? Pretty sure she was seen somewhere, and as far as I know is still there.
The queen of dreams is T'riss, who we've seen in the Bonehunters when Leoman escaped Y'ghatan. She also pops up in Stonewielder.
As for Dassem's daughter, wasn't she one of those people that were in suspended animation/dead in an Azath house? Pretty sure she was seen somewhere, and as far as I know is still there.
She's seen in Deadhouse Gates, the body is preserved but covered in wounds. It's not said whether she's alive or dead.
Wikipedia has an astonishingly detailed article on Dassem Ultor. Here's the details for his daughter's portion:
For some reason or another, the exact time span is muddled, Dassem rescinds his vow to Hood and the God of Death either kills or completely incapacitates his daughter. It is unknown which came first, if Dassem, tired and weary of the death and bloodshed caused by his own hand, forgoes his vow to the God of Death who consequently retaliates by eliminating/incapacitating his daughter or vice verse. The first accounts of Dassem by the young Ganoes Paran in Gardens of the Moon say that Dassem was the one who betrayed Hood, but later on in the novel the sole remaining Claw attached to the 2nd Army says that Hood took Dassem's daughter and then everything started going bad. Theorizing, certain vague statements seem to unconsciously point to the time directly before or during the siege of Y'Ghatan on the Seven Cities continent as the very rough time and date of this occurrence, coinciding with the assassination attempt on his life.
...
In The Deadhouse Gates, the second book of the Malazan series, when Fiddler, Apsalar and others arrive in the Azath House on Malaz Island, they encounter a young woman who is placed in a sitting position at the bottom of a flight of stairs. The young woman, whom Apsalar through possession of Dancer's memories identifies as Dassem Ultor's daughter, is neither described as dead or alive, simply as someone "who looked as if she had been placed there but an hour before". It is also described that she has "vicious wounds crisscrossing her slight form", but failing to mention if they are death wounds. Apsalar also recounts how Dassem recovered her "after Hood was done using her" and presumably placed her in the Azath House, theoretically, to preserve her body, for some unknown reason.
51% of the way through Crippled God, a couple thoughts
Ok, I'm not gonna lie, I may have been a little high when I read this (and perhaps slightly drunk as I type this), but come, on, Silchas Ruin and Tulas Shorn are totally lovers right? I understand that dudes who were friends for millenia and then suddenly split up would have a lot of emotion seeing each other again, but there really was a lot of sexual tension there. And that stuff about the Night of Whores? That totally seemed like two gay guys who were self conscious about it (though I don't know why, no one else in Malazan ever is, one of the best parts of the series btw) totally playing up "that time they did a bunch of chicks". Its ok Silchas, we accept you. Also, that bit about Anomander was probably supposed to make him seem super bad ass and super strong in his principles or whatever, but it made him seem like he had Asbergers or something.
That stuff with the Korabas and the Elder Gods was confusing, and awesome as shit. This book is picking up, and I am very excited for the conclusion.
Nice to see Kruppe again, I hope he figures into this plot more than just giving shitty-ass Torrent a bow. Fuck Torrent.
After reading Stonewielder, I'm doing a reverse order Esslemont re-read for some reason. Did a re-read of RotCG, now I'm re-reading Night of Knives. Actually having a better idea of his recurring characters and who they are/where they'll be in the next books, it's kind of making this second read kind of fun.
Debating if I should try tackling the main books again before Orb Sceptre Throne comes out. That's a bit more of a time investment though.
Over halfway through Deadhouse Gates on my reread. I think it may still be my favorite book of all. I wonder if the chain of dogs ever gets turned into a film. I think it would be perfect.
Posts
Okay, let's see what all I remember.
Picker learns something in the dream world which led to what she told Karsa which does matter.
Now some stuff which DOESN'T go anywhere with the Malazan marines were the Seguleh which were found in the basement, but hoping we'll find more about that in OST.
I liked the kid's plotline a lot more once it was pointed out to me that it's a bit of a parallel to the Tiste Andii storyline. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details of how all those line up well enough to be able to rattle them off. Unfortunately, this storyline IS the worst timeline culprit - kid's WAAAAAY too old for how long it's supposed to have been since MoI.
Convergence didn't occur because of the Hounds, convergence occurred because Dragnipur was going to be ownerless. See, Hood was summoned to the city because of his magus (I think it was) consecrating the city in a specific pattern by murdering people - that's the storyline of the dude who was punching people to death. Hood and Rake had made a deal where Rake would pull Hood inside of Dragnipur to face Chaos with the armies of the dead. Hood did so for *RAFO* reasons, and it allowed Rake to cease the burden of Dragnipur, head inside himself, and basically *force* Mother Dark to pay attention to her children again because without his sacrifice Dark itself would have been consumed by Chaos. Traveler came to Daru because Hood was going to manifest completely there, but he was delayed long enough that he was not able to face Hood prior to Rake lopping his head off, leading to Rake having to fight Traveler in his anguish - I suppose he could have stabbed himself, yeah. The convergence happened because a bunch of people wanted to take Dragnipur for themselves, and other folks were upholding their end of the bargain to prevent that from happening.
Not 100% sure about the point of Sinn and Grubb in the new warrens, myself. Might get more out of that on a re-read. There's a bit to it which will come out in the next novel, but it's more to the nature of one of them than anything.
Taxilian's posse was...going to quote from Malazan Empire.
You've finished DoD so I don't think there's any spoilers left with this, but that should put it together for you. It's a really confusing story but was one of those "AH HA!" moment things.
The snake is less a point unto itself and more just to show how fucking insane the Forkrul Assail are, I guess, and...well, there's a little more point in the next novel but still not really. To me they're kinda the embodiment of "Erikson can't write poetry" :P
Crippled God will wrap up a LOT, but not nearly everything.
re: Knowledge escalation. Yeah, that's a thing, but at least it normally tends to happen only amongst a) officers in the Malazan Army, b) people like Quick Ben/Kalam/etc who are otherwise connected. Quick Ben knows everything, I guess, but at least the officers seem apt to share that sort of knowledge, albeit offscreen. But yeah, definitely a thing.
Finished Stonewielder over the weekend. I enjoyed RotCG more, but that has more to do with what happened in it - I think ICE continued to improve his writing. He still kinda sucks at picking out names, though.
Whole series spoilers:
Also, Manask is awesome. That is all.
Also - so Kiska and Leoman ended up on the Shore. We never saw them in DoD or TCG, right? Just want to make sure I'm not crazy
Erikson does something similar at the end of novels, which you can somehow understand as he relates the same or sequential events for a short period, but in OSC the average POV length was probably 1/5th of that in the rest of the series. It really bugged me.
I want to say they were closer then it got pushed back for whatever reason at the end of last year.
It's half and half. Temper from Night of Knives is there. Laseen, Korbolo Dom, Mallick Rel, Nil & Nether from Deadhouse Gates. A few Crimson Guardsmen (obviously) that we had met very briefly before. A couple of the 'Old Guard' that were supposed to have drowned. It deals a lot with the fallout from the Seven Cities rebellion and the Wickans.
Fuck paperbacks, yo! ;oP
While it was only important people, I did not mind. It wasn't even really jarring until I went back and reread the first book. But in the later books, it seems like
All the people who know stuff amongst the Bonehunters are attached to the Marines so its them who know stuff. Theres only 1000 of them and 9/10ths of the Bonehunters are just probaly wondering what the hell is going on most of the time
Fiddler really doesn't strike me as the chatty type though. I think the knowledge escalation was done so that all the characters could understand the implications of actions on a similiar level to the reader. I understand the motivation in doing it, but I would personally have preferred if he just limitted reactions on things like the
Oh, thats good. I probably will read it before too long then. Though I just started Crippled God, I really wanted to know what was happening back there. I like the direction of the books, but considering that the books are supposedly about the Malazan empire, since Midnight Tides only the Bonehunters has really had anything to do with the Malazan empire. Thats fully 5 books in a ten book series (assuming the Crippled God doesn't tie in heavily, which is probably a bad assumption but whatevs)
And there's a 50/50 chance one of the guys you mentioned is. Rage!!!!!
And the thing with Bars? OUCH.
Yeah. Seriously.
And yeah, burbo, that's one of the two things in RotCG which kinda-sorta influences stuff in the main series. The other one is a throwaway reference in Toll the Hounds which you probably overlooked because a character you know refers to another character you don't, from a point they were together in RotCG.
There is quite a bit of Skinner in RotCG, though. :P
The only trouble with Skinner is I can't help but hear Superintendant Chalmers voice whenever anyone calls his name!
NoK and Deadhouse Gates/Memories of Ice spoilers
It also makes the Shadowthrone/Cotillion=Kellanved/Dancer connection more obvious, but I think you're supposed to have figured that out by the end of GotM.
It also further muddies the waters on Tayschrenn. I'm not sure what I think about this. I think it might help because all through GotM, Tay is basically the badguy, or at least the Bridgeburners' nemesis. This book sets him up as maybe not such a bad guy after all. Then in MoI, we see that he's been part of the long con all this time.
The reread also helped pick out some definite GotMisms that I had missed. The main one is the "bone phone" that Whiskeyjack and Dujek use to talk. Those never show up again later, despite the fact that they would be incredibly useful throughout MoI.
Anyway, I try not to lose too much thought on GotMisms. Take the loose concepts and characters and just forget the details, otherwise I'd be pulling my hair out at the things that were later changed/modified/retconned/deliberately forgotten.
I'd always read that published order was the preferred version, which would put NoK between Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters (my personal preferred order, by the by).
And yeah, it really does point out a lot of GotMisms. Gets even worse when you start keeping track of timelines, particularly around TtH. Apparently OST makes it even worse
Apparently ICE and SE both said NoK after GotM. There's some good and bad to the decision.
Yeah I did mix up my assassins, you got what I meant though :P
And GotMisms don't actually bother me that much. It's almost like a scavenger hunt. The one thing that actually bothers me isn't totally a GotMism
Well the published order, and the read order before the authors told them they should switch it, was to read Night of Knives somewhere well down the line from GotM. At least after Memories of Ice, I would think. Reading NoK first was never an option, you're right. Even though it is chronologically first.
The latter one can kinda be handwaved away
Old Guard purge is...well, yeah. It screams of retconning past actions to match current needs, and I think you basically have to go "they change their minds on how things would proceed in the decade after GotM was written."
I think the Northern Genebackis Campaign was gamed, Blackdog, Nathilog, etc. There seems to be a lot of history there that we only ever get a glimpse at.
I wonder if the start of the Empire was gamed. That's another area where a lot of history seems to exist, but the books only touch on it.
I asked this question in the HoC Q&A at the Reread of the Fallen.
Question 3
I like the Tool storyline thus far, even if is the same every time we get back to him "I'm going to kill some shit, nothing can dissuade me. I'm deadly as fuck". Ijust like the general idea that being denied death after what happened to his family has driven him to become this implacable killing machine. Some clarification on one point would be nice, if you guys have it.
There was some stuff about how Tool became clanless because Dassem Ultor was the new First Sword. I guess that made him immortal and so Hood wouldn't let him die? Thats why he hates Hood (along with something about his daughter). So apparently Dassem is the Lord of Tragedy, some kind of god. We haven't seen him referred to as a god before have we? Where are his followers? Also, there was a line about a piece of him becoming a god as well. An earlier mention said something about Dessembrae killing Hood. These words, along with the similarity in names is making me guess that Dessembrae is Dassem's daughter. Am I on the right track? Dessembrae is the queen of dreams, right? And the spider goddess that busted the moon somehow that Pust's wife draws power from? I dunno, I'm confused.
Its been a fun read so far, I'm already excited for the weekend to start so I can get some heavy duty reading time in.
The spider goddess that Mogara serves is Ardata. I don't think she's involved with Dassem, but I don't remember.
I forget what happened to Tool, can't help you there.
I have reached Deadhouse Gates on my reread. That prologue is still so great and shocking.
As for Dassem's daughter, wasn't she one of those people that were in suspended animation/dead in an Azath house? Pretty sure she was seen somewhere, and as far as I know is still there.
Wikipedia has an astonishingly detailed article on Dassem Ultor. Here's the details for his daughter's portion:
That stuff with the Korabas and the Elder Gods was confusing, and awesome as shit. This book is picking up, and I am very excited for the conclusion.
Nice to see Kruppe again, I hope he figures into this plot more than just giving shitty-ass Torrent a bow. Fuck Torrent.
Having fun!
Debating if I should try tackling the main books again before Orb Sceptre Throne comes out. That's a bit more of a time investment though.
Also, Mappo and Icarium for Best Best Buds.