Snipers can kill anything with a fully charged headshot, even an overhealed heavy.
That's not overpowered.
So your argument is that because there's already two instant-kill classes, a third is fine?
Shit, let's just call it Team Instagib 2 then.
The point is that TF2 isn't balanced around one-versus-one encounters. A Sniper can kill any enemy in one shot from afar, but is almost a free kill at short range; Pyros are the opposite.
Svidrigailov on
Neither the whole of truth nor the whole of good is revealed to any single observer, although each observer gains a partial superiority of insight from the peculiar position in which he stands. It is enough to ask of each of us that he should be faithful to his own opportunities and make the most of his own blessings, without presuming to regulate the rest of the vast field.
I think it's annoying me now because of the influx of pyros post-update. Especially on a map like badlands, if there are three pyros sneaking around to try to get the demo at the middle, even if they only succeed 33% of the time I still get insta-fried every time.
I imagine that it will cool off when people get their acheivements and the class distribution balances out a bit.
Snipers can kill anything with a fully charged headshot, even an overhealed heavy.
What I'm saying is that skilled people can use their classes to do incredible feats of damage. What I hear you saying is that anybody can pick up pyro, run forward and hold the trigger button and be over powered.
NO. It takes a skilled human to actually do that. Yes other people get lucky, but that does not make it over-powered. So stop tossing around that term as if it means "this class has both strengths and weaknesses."
Backburner doesn't bother me, it encourages the pyro to do what he used to. Except you really don't need to anymore with the drop off removal. You can run foward and hold fire and get quite a few kills especially if you're just picking on anyone who isn't a heavier class.
instead of fixing hit detection, they removed fall off damage. seems fine to me actually because it was frustrating as shit watching a pyro chase a medic and do absolutely nothing to the fat german.
It doesn't have to be the old setting, just not 100% at every range, since the other part of the hit detection sucking is that you can get hit by a bit of fire you can't see and lose all your health.
What I'm saying is that skilled people can use their classes to do incredible feats of damage. What I hear you saying is that anybody can pick up pyro, run forward and hold the trigger button and be over powered.
You've got some serious wax buildup then.
NO. It takes a skilled human to actually do that. Yes other people get lucky, but that does not make it over-powered. So stop tossing around that term as if it means "this class has both strengths and weaknesses."
I have no problem with the flamestab - it's the addition of the 50hp that's making the class as a whole overpowered. Meaning "The strengths are significantly outweighing the weaknesses."
Flamestab? Plus.
Still crit from the front? Plus.
+50hp? Plus.
Full damage at any range? Plus.
Can't compression blast? Negative, but only if you're used to having it in the first place, otherwise neutral.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Backburner doesn't bother me, it encourages the pyro to do what he used to. Except you really don't need to anymore with the drop off removal. You can run foward and hold fire and get quite a few kills especially if you're just picking on anyone who isn't a heavier class.
Only if the pyro ambushes them from around the corner. If you run straight at someone who isn't otherwise preoccupied the pyro will always lose if the other person is even a mediocre player. This is even true for medics, a support class, because of the blut.
I think it's annoying me now because of the influx of pyros post-update. Especially on a map like badlands, if there are three pyros sneaking around to try to get the demo at the middle, even if they only succeed 33% of the time I still get insta-fried every time.
I imagine that it will cool off when people get their acheivements and the class distribution balances out a bit.
if you're a demo man then the influx of pyros should be a dream come true for you.
I suggest leaving a bread trail of hidden stickies wherever you go. This stops people from following from the rear (cuz they can see ur stickies) and it allows you to pull back to safety at any given moment. NEVAR follow a demo man!
KingMoo on
![▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓]!
!!!!▓▓▓▓▓Gravy?▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!
!!!!!!▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!!!!
of doom
I think it's annoying me now because of the influx of pyros post-update. Especially on a map like badlands, if there are three pyros sneaking around to try to get the demo at the middle, even if they only succeed 33% of the time I still get insta-fried every time.
I imagine that it will cool off when people get their acheivements and the class distribution balances out a bit.
if you're a demo man then the influx of pyros should be a dream come true for you.
I suggest leaving a bread trail of hidden stickies wherever you go. This stops people from following from the rear (cuz they can see ur stickies) and it allows you to pull back to safety at any given moment. NEVAR follow a demo man!
Like I posted in the other thread, being a demo with all these pyros is great, for the first 3 you kill. Then you're out of ammo, or health, and you're fucked when the fourth one suicide runs on you.
What I'm saying is that skilled people can use their classes to do incredible feats of damage. What I hear you saying is that anybody can pick up pyro, run forward and hold the trigger button and be over powered.
You've got some serious wax buildup then.
NO. It takes a skilled human to actually do that. Yes other people get lucky, but that does not make it over-powered. So stop tossing around that term as if it means "this class has both strengths and weaknesses."
I have no problem with the flamestab - it's the addition of the 50hp that's making the class as a whole overpowered. Meaning "The strengths are significantly outweighing the weaknesses."
Flamestab? Plus.
Still crit from the front? Plus.
+50hp? Plus.
Full damage at any range? Plus.
Can't compression blast? Negative, but only if you're used to having it in the first place, otherwise neutral.
I'm surprised you don't have a problem with the air burst then, since that is pretty much just a plus on top of how pyros were played in the first place.
I understand your complaint, but Valve must have figured out Pyros were getting the short end of the stick, and either needed more health and power, or some other ability to compensate. The backburner is an easy fix, buff their health and ad crits from behind to a class that is being used as an ambush class. The airburst is alternative fix, giving them the ability to defend themselves and retain some usefulness at range and against some classes that should not have the leg up on them at close range.
To be honest, I much rather have the leafblower, there is so much more potential there, and I can still take down foos from behind.
All I'm saying is that Valve saw the Pyro was underpowered before, not able to do the things he is supposed to be good at, so they made up for it. Now he can actually do things the way he should. If you don't care to see that reasoning, fine.
What I'm saying is that skilled people can use their classes to do incredible feats of damage. What I hear you saying is that anybody can pick up pyro, run forward and hold the trigger button and be over powered.
You've got some serious wax buildup then.
NO. It takes a skilled human to actually do that. Yes other people get lucky, but that does not make it over-powered. So stop tossing around that term as if it means "this class has both strengths and weaknesses."
I have no problem with the flamestab - it's the addition of the 50hp that's making the class as a whole overpowered. Meaning "The strengths are significantly outweighing the weaknesses."
Flamestab? Plus.
Still crit from the front? Plus.
+50hp? Plus.
Full damage at any range? Plus.
Can't compression blast? Negative, but only if you're used to having it in the first place, otherwise neutral.
I'm surprised you don't have a problem with the air burst then, since that is pretty much just a plus on top of how pyros were played in the first place.
I understand your complaint, but Valve must have figured out Pyros were getting the short end of the stick, and either needed more health and power, or some other ability to compensate. The backburner is an easy fix, buff their health and ad crits from behind to a class that is being used as an ambush class. The airburst is alternative fix, giving them the ability to defend themselves and retain some usefulness at range and against some classes that should not have the leg up on them at close range.
I'm not saying they couldn't use a buff, but they got overbuffed. 100% crit and +50hp is a major buff, and probably could have been a "one or the other" fix. What about +50hp for the basic flamer, and the 100% crit but no HP bonus for the Backburner? Edit - I see you followed the idea above.
To be honest, I much rather have the leafblower, there is so much more potential there, and I can still take down foos from behind.
That's what he said.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
What I'm saying is that skilled people can use their classes to do incredible feats of damage. What I hear you saying is that anybody can pick up pyro, run forward and hold the trigger button and be over powered.
You've got some serious wax buildup then.
NO. It takes a skilled human to actually do that. Yes other people get lucky, but that does not make it over-powered. So stop tossing around that term as if it means "this class has both strengths and weaknesses."
I have no problem with the flamestab - it's the addition of the 50hp that's making the class as a whole overpowered. Meaning "The strengths are significantly outweighing the weaknesses."
Flamestab? Plus.
Still crit from the front? Plus.
+50hp? Plus.
Full damage at any range? Plus.
Can't compression blast? Negative, but only if you're used to having it in the first place, otherwise neutral.
I'm surprised you don't have a problem with the air burst then, since that is pretty much just a plus on top of how pyros were played in the first place.
I understand your complaint, but Valve must have figured out Pyros were getting the short end of the stick, and either needed more health and power, or some other ability to compensate. The backburner is an easy fix, buff their health and ad crits from behind to a class that is being used as an ambush class. The airburst is alternative fix, giving them the ability to defend themselves and retain some usefulness at range and against some classes that should not have the leg up on them at close range.
I'm not saying they couldn't use a buff, but they got overbuffed. 100% crit and +50hp is a major buff, and probably could have been a "one or the other" fix. What about +50hp for the basic flamer, and the 100% crit but no HP bonus for the Backburner? Edit - I see you followed the idea above.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion at this point. I think the backburner is very so so in comparison to the power of the air burst, and that dropping either of those bonuses for make it even less of a viable option to pyros.
I still think that despite everything, one or the other effect needs to be toned down. Either the health bonus reduced, or the crit damage.
There needs to be SOME relatively major tradeoff, just like all of the other unlocks.
So far the Backburner has no downside. That's a bad thing ultimately.
Uh, you don't have the compression blast, that is a pretty big trade off.
Yes, but 50 health is a pretty big fucking reason not to give a shit about it.
EDIT: Let me clarify, I'm fine with the auto-crits. I can live with that. The 50 extra health in addition to that is just stupid.
Yea that 50 health really helps you out when you have to run over some stickies or an uber shows up.
Really, seriously, who has found the health boost to be all that great besides in pyro vs pyro duels? I barely noticed it when I tried it out, and the crits were nice but nothing spectacular. I basically just drop guys faster than I did before if I manage to get the jump on them. Who really prefers the backburner over the leafblower? Is it everybody and I'm just in the minority? I don't really understand all this backburner > leafblower business.
I still think that despite everything, one or the other effect needs to be toned down. Either the health bonus reduced, or the crit damage.
There needs to be SOME relatively major tradeoff, just like all of the other unlocks.
So far the Backburner has no downside. That's a bad thing ultimately.
Uh, you don't have the compression blast, that is a pretty big trade off.
Yes, but 50 health is a pretty big fucking reason not to give a shit about it.
EDIT: Let me clarify, I'm fine with the auto-crits. I can live with that. The 50 extra health in addition to that is just stupid.
Yea that 50 health really helps you out when you have to run over some stickies or an uber shows up.
I just think that a straight 50 health bonus doesn't really bring skill into the equation, while the air blast requires finesse. Just seems odd to me, I guess.
Oh man I didn't realize that they removed the damage fall off. Wow. I mean I'll agree that pyros were getting the short end before, but why wouldn't valve bring these changes incrementally and allow them to be tested rather than dump a huge pile of death candy right in the pyroville town square?
f you're a demo man then the influx of pyros should be a dream come true for you.
I suggest leaving a bread trail of hidden stickies wherever you go. This stops people from following from the rear (cuz they can see ur stickies) and it allows you to pull back to safety at any given moment. NEVAR follow a demo man!
Your two pieces of advice contradict... if I leave a trail behind me, then pulling back to safety will mean that I am standing on my stickies, right? or am I misunderstanding you?
Also, doesn't the fact that most classes can move obvious stickes negate their deterrent effect?
I mean I appreciate the advice, please help me be a better demoman, but my mind is clouded with confusion.
Flamestab? Plus.
Still crit from the front? Base class ability
+50hp? Plus.
Full damage at any range? Base class ability
Can't compression blast? Negative
Svidrigailov on
Neither the whole of truth nor the whole of good is revealed to any single observer, although each observer gains a partial superiority of insight from the peculiar position in which he stands. It is enough to ask of each of us that he should be faithful to his own opportunities and make the most of his own blessings, without presuming to regulate the rest of the vast field.
soldiers rockets have fall off damage, as do demo's pipes and stickies. so the "any range" is misleading.
Rockets no, nades and stickies yes.
If you want to contest this, look up the commentary regarding Soldiers.
I'm actually not sure, after reading the wiki, but as far as I've ever seen, the splash damage from rockets was meant to do the same damage as a direct hit. The actual impact damage is minimal and most of the time barely noticeable, outside crits.
Posts
I imagine that it will cool off when people get their acheivements and the class distribution balances out a bit.
No, that's your argument:
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
What I'm saying is that skilled people can use their classes to do incredible feats of damage. What I hear you saying is that anybody can pick up pyro, run forward and hold the trigger button and be over powered.
NO. It takes a skilled human to actually do that. Yes other people get lucky, but that does not make it over-powered. So stop tossing around that term as if it means "this class has both strengths and weaknesses."
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
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Buy the PC version. If you have a Mac, make a dual boot.
I have no problem with the flamestab - it's the addition of the 50hp that's making the class as a whole overpowered. Meaning "The strengths are significantly outweighing the weaknesses."
Flamestab? Plus.
Still crit from the front? Plus.
+50hp? Plus.
Full damage at any range? Plus.
Can't compression blast? Negative, but only if you're used to having it in the first place, otherwise neutral.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
if you're a demo man then the influx of pyros should be a dream come true for you.
I suggest leaving a bread trail of hidden stickies wherever you go. This stops people from following from the rear (cuz they can see ur stickies) and it allows you to pull back to safety at any given moment. NEVAR follow a demo man!
!!!!▓▓▓▓▓Gravy?▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!
!!!!!!▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!!!!
of doom
There needs to be SOME relatively major tradeoff, just like all of the other unlocks.
So far the Backburner has no downside. That's a bad thing ultimately.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
the Pyro is overpowered now
Yes, but 50 health is a pretty big fucking reason not to give a shit about it.
EDIT: Let me clarify, I'm fine with the auto-crits. I can live with that. The 50 extra health in addition to that is just stupid.
Like I posted in the other thread, being a demo with all these pyros is great, for the first 3 you kill. Then you're out of ammo, or health, and you're fucked when the fourth one suicide runs on you.
I'm surprised you don't have a problem with the air burst then, since that is pretty much just a plus on top of how pyros were played in the first place.
I understand your complaint, but Valve must have figured out Pyros were getting the short end of the stick, and either needed more health and power, or some other ability to compensate. The backburner is an easy fix, buff their health and ad crits from behind to a class that is being used as an ambush class. The airburst is alternative fix, giving them the ability to defend themselves and retain some usefulness at range and against some classes that should not have the leg up on them at close range.
To be honest, I much rather have the leafblower, there is so much more potential there, and I can still take down foos from behind.
those things
fix the bloody hit detection valve, don't take away the falloff damage
you aren't fixing the problem you're just making an even bigger stupider problem
:rotate:
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
That's what he said.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
that's all I want valve
the backburner is fine you fags, it has a tiny ass hitbox anyway
I guess it's just a difference of opinion at this point. I think the backburner is very so so in comparison to the power of the air burst, and that dropping either of those bonuses for make it even less of a viable option to pyros.
God dammit
50 is too much
Really, seriously, who has found the health boost to be all that great besides in pyro vs pyro duels? I barely noticed it when I tried it out, and the crits were nice but nothing spectacular. I basically just drop guys faster than I did before if I manage to get the jump on them. Who really prefers the backburner over the leafblower? Is it everybody and I'm just in the minority? I don't really understand all this backburner > leafblower business.
I just think that a straight 50 health bonus doesn't really bring skill into the equation, while the air blast requires finesse. Just seems odd to me, I guess.
EDIT: What Spectre said.
Oh, and also:
Your two pieces of advice contradict... if I leave a trail behind me, then pulling back to safety will mean that I am standing on my stickies, right? or am I misunderstanding you?
Also, doesn't the fact that most classes can move obvious stickes negate their deterrent effect?
I mean I appreciate the advice, please help me be a better demoman, but my mind is clouded with confusion.
Rockets no, nades and stickies yes.
If you want to contest this, look up the commentary regarding Soldiers.
I'm actually not sure, after reading the wiki, but as far as I've ever seen, the splash damage from rockets was meant to do the same damage as a direct hit. The actual impact damage is minimal and most of the time barely noticeable, outside crits.
The flamethrower used to do reduced damage at range.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.