As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
Advice: The Twice and Future Computer Thread
robaal
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I guess I might have made it more visible:Original post was made by Salvation122, I just edited/updated it.
Assembling Your Own Computer
For many people, assembling their own machine is half the fun of buying your own computer. Building your own computer will better educate you on the way your machine works and make you more confident about upgrading down the line. Additionally, because you're buying all your parts independently, you know exactly what components you have if something goes wrong.
This is an excellent guide to the process. [Thanks Kriz!]
When should I upgrade?
At this point, if you're looking at upgrading and your computer has an AGP slot, it's probably time to replace your motherboard, processor, video board and RAM. If you're using PATA hard drives (the ones with the fat gray ribbon cables,) you might want to look at replacing those with SATA, as well, but it's not crucial; even though most new motherboard support only 2 PATA devices you can purchase a PATA->SATA adapter and use it to hook up the older HDDs to SATA ports.
What parts should I buy?
Ultimately, of course, this depends on how much money you have to spend and what you plan on using your machine for. Some general rules:
There's a comprehensive LCD buyer's guide at Anandtech forums, complete with specific recommendations and overview of their important characteristics that should help you make an informed decision.
DirectX 10
The first "wave" of games supporting DX10 just lack some fancy-but-minor effects when run on DX9 hardware.
Exactly what should I buy for $X?
That's hard to pin down. Anandtech regularly outlines good builds for a given budget, so that's a good starting point - just remember that they're only suggestions.
I'm worried about the process of actually assembling my computer. Is it difficult?
Nope! These days, it's pretty obvious where everything goes. A few things to keep in mind, though:
Suggested Gaming Upgrade Paths
Many people don't actually need to buy every component for a new computer. With that in mind, here are some recommended upgrade bundles for folks who already have a usable case, hard drives, optical drives, and power supply.
Note: OEM cases, like the old beige box your Dell or HP shipped in, are not ideal for a hefty overhaul like the ones described below. Often the cases are proprietary and your new motherboard won't even fit. Even if it does, they're a pain in the ass to work with, and it's well worth the fifty bucks for a new case to save yourself the aggravation of working in an OEM case. I've done both, and working with the HP case left me softly, continuously swearing. In three languages.
Similarly, your old Dell power supply might not be up to spec. See above for things to look for in power supplies.
That aside, all these upgrade paths include a motherboard, processor and video board. For RAM, 2GB of DDR2-667 or faster is recommended, though you can get away with 1GB. Currently 2GB of DDR2-800 RAM costs ~$70. If for some reason you desperately need a new AGP video card and nothing else, you can snag an AGP-interface X1950GT for around $140, but it will not perform up to par with the PCI-E version. Really, you're just delaying the inevitable, and are probably better off saving up some cash.
Prices and parts lists last updated 17th of November, 2007.
Budget Upgrade
The new Radeon isn't as power-hungry as the HD 29xx cards - in fact at idle it uses less power than an 8600GTS. Higher efficiency also means the cooler doesn't have to spin up as high as in the first DX10 Radeon.
An Intel-based system would cost ~$40 more and the low-end Core 2 Duo CPU would likely still perform worse than the Athlon at stock settings.
It should be possible to build a whole system with 2GB of RAM for <$650 with these components.
Mid-range Upgrade
The 8800GT 512MB is usually faster than the 8800GTS 640MB; more importantly, it doesn't have performance issues in the few games where the 320MB GTS lags far behind the more expensive version (notably WiC and Crysis demo). This will run almost anything you throw at it adequately at 1680x1050/1600x1200 and high settings. A whole system based on these components with 2GB of RAM should cost ~$1000.
High-end Upgrade
The 8800GTX is the second most powerful video card available. The video card constitutes more than half of the total cost, with a price-tag of $500; there is also the less powerful 512MB 8800GT at <$290.
With these components a whole system with 2GB of RAM would cost <$1500. Note that 4GB of RAM requires a 64bit operating system, and 64bit versions of Windows have poor driver support presently.
Bleeding Edge
The linked motherboard is a revised version ("T1"), hopefully without the problems previous nForce 680i 'boards had; the newegg reviews suggest a high DOA rate, so buying it locally might be a good idea.
The GeForces 8800Ultra have fallen to only $100 premium over the GTX, and the ones from MSI are even pre-overclocked to 660MHz/2300MHz.
A whole system like this, with 4x1GB of "overclocker" RAM and the bigger Raptor would cost <$2800.
Note that 4GB of RAM requires a 64bit operating system, and 64bit versions of Windows have poor driver support presently.
Buying A Pre-Built System
As a general rule, Alienware overcharges and HP and Compaq suck. Dell has had some reliability issues in the past, but they're not a bad buy. Sony is hit-or-miss, depending on who you talk to.
For gaming, prebuilt systems are usually not the best choice. In order to keep prices down, wholesalers like Dell use cheap motherboards and power supplies, which can lead to stability issues under load. Their cases also tend to be very poorly designed, so heat is an issue. However, for general web browsing and office/school work, pre-built systems will do you just fine. Make sure you look at the warranty before buying.
Laptops
Let's make this real clear up front: laptops aren't ideal for gaming by any means, are really expensive, and can't be upgraded being thoroughly. If you don't really need a laptop, you should probably get a desktop instead. That aside, Dells, Toshibas, and Sonys make reasonable laptops that you'll be able to do some light gaming on, and IBM makes rock-solid hardware that will tackle any school or office software thrown at it.
Maintenence
Software:
If anyone has anything to add, please PM me.
Changelog:
1): Added Kriz's link.
2): Added warnings about static electricity and magnets.
3): Slightly modified formatting, added Recommended Gaming Upgrade Paths.
4): Fixed error in LCD bullet: "refresh rate" to "response time."
5): Updated Recommended Gaming Upgrade Path parts lists (Budget) and prices.
6): Updated Recommended Gaming Upgrade Path parts lists and prices. (won't be listed as updates in future)
7): Stolen the OP from Salvation122, editing the general guidlines, updating the builds and adding some advice of my own
8): Changed the LCD "DO" into a separate paragraph
9): Heh, just noticed/remembered to update the "prices and parts last updated" text
10): Changed the SLI "Don't" to reflect the price drop of SLI motherboards
11): Changed the "DO" recommended Amperage to 20A@+12V, updated 2GB DDR2-667 price, changed the DirectX10 blurb
12): Removed the "DO buy HDDs with 5y warranty", as both 7200.10 Barracudas and "RE" WDs are pretty loud and the REs seem to be slower than SE16s
13): Updated the motherboard chipset "DO", updated the link to LCD buyer's guide thread, changed the DirectX10 blurb
Assembling Your Own Computer
For many people, assembling their own machine is half the fun of buying your own computer. Building your own computer will better educate you on the way your machine works and make you more confident about upgrading down the line. Additionally, because you're buying all your parts independently, you know exactly what components you have if something goes wrong.
This is an excellent guide to the process. [Thanks Kriz!]
When should I upgrade?
At this point, if you're looking at upgrading and your computer has an AGP slot, it's probably time to replace your motherboard, processor, video board and RAM. If you're using PATA hard drives (the ones with the fat gray ribbon cables,) you might want to look at replacing those with SATA, as well, but it's not crucial; even though most new motherboard support only 2 PATA devices you can purchase a PATA->SATA adapter and use it to hook up the older HDDs to SATA ports.
What parts should I buy?
Ultimately, of course, this depends on how much money you have to spend and what you plan on using your machine for. Some general rules:
- DO buy Core 2 Duo processors. They perform significantly better than Athlons 64 X2 at the same price-point. They aren't cheap though, so if low cost is very important the slower Athlons X2 are still "good enough" to play games and definitely better than any Pentium 4 CPUs.
- DO buy motherboards on the Intel P965 or P35 chipset for Core 2 Duo processors and ones on nVidia or AMD chipsets for Athlons 64. They offer the best stability and features available for the least amount of money at the time.
- DO buy power supplies with high amperage on the +12v rails if you're going to be doing any gaming. You can probably get away with a 450 watt power supply if it has good specs for the 12v rails - when looking at the specs on a power supply, you want to see 20 amps or higher under "+12v".
Getting a good power supply is vital. Cheap, rebranded, high peak wattage PSUs are easy to find, but it can easily destabilize your entire system. Good power supply brands are Seasonic (also sold under the Corsair brand), Enermax, Fortron-Source/Sparkle, Antec, OCZ and Thermaltake. There's a good chance these will cost double the price of a non-name power supply with equivalent max power, but there's a reason for that - the other ones suck. Even if your case comes with a power supply, and many do, look at replacing it unless it's made by one of the above companies. - DO buy good RAM. For most people, Corsair Value Select is the best value. Not all motherboards work "out of the box" with DDR2 RAM rated at more than 1,8V. If you really need faster RAM for overclocking, Mushkin, Corsair and OCZ make good products.
- DO buy SATA hard drives. They tend to achieve higher transfer rates than PATA drives, use a neater connector and very importantly - new motherboards support only 2 PATA devices, so most likely the HDD would have to share the cable with an optical drive which isn't great for performance, but also makes the cable management very hard. Be aware that Windows XP often needs drivers for the SATA controller to see the drives, and sometimes to boot with no problems after installation.
- DON'T buy two video cards to run in an SLI/Crossfire configuration. The only reason to run more than one video board is for two high-end cards - which will cost >$600. Mid-range/low-end cards in SLI usually perform slightly worse than a faster single card of comparable value. There's nothing wrong with SLI support in motherboards by itself, as nowadays they aren't more expensive than ones without it.
- DON'T as a general rule, buy a separate sound card. On-board sound is enough for most people unless you're running a surround-sound system on your PC, and even then, some better boards have optical-outs. If you really need a separate sound card, your best bet is an M-Audio; better sound quality and cheaper than Creative boards.
- DON'T look only at the amount of VRAM when choosing a video card. Manufacturers often equip the slower cards with more memory than default but working at a lower speed, or leave the speed the same but increase the price significantly. A faster card with less memory will almost always perform better in games than a slower one with more.
There's a comprehensive LCD buyer's guide at Anandtech forums, complete with specific recommendations and overview of their important characteristics that should help you make an informed decision.
DirectX 10
The first "wave" of games supporting DX10 just lack some fancy-but-minor effects when run on DX9 hardware.
Exactly what should I buy for $X?
That's hard to pin down. Anandtech regularly outlines good builds for a given budget, so that's a good starting point - just remember that they're only suggestions.
I'm worried about the process of actually assembling my computer. Is it difficult?
Nope! These days, it's pretty obvious where everything goes. A few things to keep in mind, though:
- BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT YOU'RE GROUNDED! Static electricity does very bad things to many computer components; RAM in particular is very static sensitive. To reduce the risk of zapping your components before you've even turned the box on, build in an uncarpeted room, and touch the frame of the case before handling components.
- Install the standoffs on your case before installing the motherboard. Standoffs are little risers that keep the motherboard from actually touching the case. Generally these look like screws with a hole for another screw in the top, but sometimes they're little springs that pop into place with a hole to screw the motherboard to on top. If you screw the motherboard directly to the case, you will almost certainly short something out. This will make you a Sad Panda, and you may or may not be able to get it replaced under warranty.
- Don't force anything. Most components fit pretty easily in their respective slot. If you have to really force something, chances are you're doing it wrong. As a general rule, try to push straight down, not in at an angle.
- Make sure you use the right pin-outs on a power supply. Most new motherboards use 24-pin power connectors, but this is a pretty new type of interface, and many power supplies use 20-pin connectors. Your motherboard or power supply probably came with a 24-pin adapter, so make sure you use it if you need it. Most motherboards that use 24-pin interfaces can be run with the last four pins empty, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
- Make sure all your fans are plugged in and properly operating. Overheating sucks. Make sure everything runs appropriately.
- Read your motherboard manual. Information on how to hook up front inputs, LEDs, and power switches is there, and it's kinda important.
- Install RAM in dual-channel. When you're installing your RAM, there should be four DIMM slots - two of one color, two of another. Put your RAM into the slots with matching colors to enable dual-channel, which enhances memory performance.
Suggested Gaming Upgrade Paths
Many people don't actually need to buy every component for a new computer. With that in mind, here are some recommended upgrade bundles for folks who already have a usable case, hard drives, optical drives, and power supply.
Note: OEM cases, like the old beige box your Dell or HP shipped in, are not ideal for a hefty overhaul like the ones described below. Often the cases are proprietary and your new motherboard won't even fit. Even if it does, they're a pain in the ass to work with, and it's well worth the fifty bucks for a new case to save yourself the aggravation of working in an OEM case. I've done both, and working with the HP case left me softly, continuously swearing. In three languages.
Similarly, your old Dell power supply might not be up to spec. See above for things to look for in power supplies.
That aside, all these upgrade paths include a motherboard, processor and video board. For RAM, 2GB of DDR2-667 or faster is recommended, though you can get away with 1GB. Currently 2GB of DDR2-800 RAM costs ~$70. If for some reason you desperately need a new AGP video card and nothing else, you can snag an AGP-interface X1950GT for around $140, but it will not perform up to par with the PCI-E version. Really, you're just delaying the inevitable, and are probably better off saving up some cash.
Prices and parts lists last updated 17th of November, 2007.
Budget Upgrade
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-M61P-S3
- Processor: Athlon X2 4600+
- Video board: Radeon HD 3850 256MB
- Total cost before tax/shipping: $350.
The new Radeon isn't as power-hungry as the HD 29xx cards - in fact at idle it uses less power than an 8600GTS. Higher efficiency also means the cooler doesn't have to spin up as high as in the first DX10 Radeon.
An Intel-based system would cost ~$40 more and the low-end Core 2 Duo CPU would likely still perform worse than the Athlon at stock settings.
It should be possible to build a whole system with 2GB of RAM for <$650 with these components.
Mid-range Upgrade
- Motherboard: Gigabyte P35-DS3R
- Processor: Core 2 Duo E6750
- Video Board: GeForce 8800GT 512MB
- Total Cost before tax/shipping: $635.
The 8800GT 512MB is usually faster than the 8800GTS 640MB; more importantly, it doesn't have performance issues in the few games where the 320MB GTS lags far behind the more expensive version (notably WiC and Crysis demo). This will run almost anything you throw at it adequately at 1680x1050/1600x1200 and high settings. A whole system based on these components with 2GB of RAM should cost ~$1000.
High-end Upgrade
- Motherboard: ASUS P5K-E/WiFi
- Processor: Core 2 Duo E6850
- Video Board: Geforce 8800GTX
- Total Cost before tax/shipping: $940.
The 8800GTX is the second most powerful video card available. The video card constitutes more than half of the total cost, with a price-tag of $500; there is also the less powerful 512MB 8800GT at <$290.
With these components a whole system with 2GB of RAM would cost <$1500. Note that 4GB of RAM requires a 64bit operating system, and 64bit versions of Windows have poor driver support presently.
Bleeding Edge
- Motherboard: eVGA nForce 680i LT SLI
- Processor: Core 2 Duo E6850
- Video Board: 2x GeForce 8800Ultra
- Total Cost before tax/shipping: $1640
The linked motherboard is a revised version ("T1"), hopefully without the problems previous nForce 680i 'boards had; the newegg reviews suggest a high DOA rate, so buying it locally might be a good idea.
The GeForces 8800Ultra have fallen to only $100 premium over the GTX, and the ones from MSI are even pre-overclocked to 660MHz/2300MHz.
A whole system like this, with 4x1GB of "overclocker" RAM and the bigger Raptor would cost <$2800.
Note that 4GB of RAM requires a 64bit operating system, and 64bit versions of Windows have poor driver support presently.
Buying A Pre-Built System
As a general rule, Alienware overcharges and HP and Compaq suck. Dell has had some reliability issues in the past, but they're not a bad buy. Sony is hit-or-miss, depending on who you talk to.
For gaming, prebuilt systems are usually not the best choice. In order to keep prices down, wholesalers like Dell use cheap motherboards and power supplies, which can lead to stability issues under load. Their cases also tend to be very poorly designed, so heat is an issue. However, for general web browsing and office/school work, pre-built systems will do you just fine. Make sure you look at the warranty before buying.
Laptops
Let's make this real clear up front: laptops aren't ideal for gaming by any means, are really expensive, and can't be upgraded being thoroughly. If you don't really need a laptop, you should probably get a desktop instead. That aside, Dells, Toshibas, and Sonys make reasonable laptops that you'll be able to do some light gaming on, and IBM makes rock-solid hardware that will tackle any school or office software thrown at it.
Maintenence
Software:
- Install SP2. Do it. Do it, damn your eyes.
- Install Microsoft Antispyware. You can find it here.
- Leave automatic Windows Update on... unless there's software you need to run that they break. This isn't common, so you should probably leave it on.
- Although with SP2 and MSAS, IE doesn't cause nearly as many problems as it used to, it's a good idea to install Firefox. You can find it here.
- Use a virus scanner, and keep your definitions up to date. Some good free AV programs are Avira AntiVir, AVG and avast! Home Edition.
- Defrag your hard drive once every month or so. Disk Defragmenter can be found by clicking Start -> Accessories -> System Tools. Open Defragmenter, and click "Analyze." Read the report afterwards - if File Fragmentation is greater than roughly 10%, you should probably defrag. Just let the thing run overnight.
Partitioning your hard drive so that you have a separate partition at least for the system should minimize fragmentation impact on system performance; you can do this during XP installation. Setting your page file size to a static value should also help (system -> advanced -> Performance Settings -> Advanced -> Virtual memory Change... and choose Custom size of around 2 000 MB, the same for initial and maximum)
- Make sure your computer can breathe. Most of the heat from a computer is expelled through the back of the tower. Heat causes lots of problems, so try to leave a couple inches between the back of your case and the wall.
- Undo your overclock if applicable. If you suffer constant crashes or hangs, reset your BIOS to factory standards.
- If your machine is constantly unstable, check your RAM. Run MemTest86, available here.
- If your machine is still unstable, check your heat. Pop open your case and ensure that all your fans are spinning as they should be and that there's not a dust bunny the size of Los Angeles nestled between your video board and your processor. Get some canned air and use short bursts to blow any dust out of the case - long sprays can cause condensation, and water tends to be real bad for computers.
- If your computer is still unstable, check your drivers. If you built your system yourself, you should know what individual drivers to look for. If you bought it pre-built, check the manufacturer's website.
- If one of the fans has started to make an awful noise its bearings most likely need lubrication.
If anyone has anything to add, please PM me.
Changelog:
1): Added Kriz's link.
2): Added warnings about static electricity and magnets.
3): Slightly modified formatting, added Recommended Gaming Upgrade Paths.
4): Fixed error in LCD bullet: "refresh rate" to "response time."
5): Updated Recommended Gaming Upgrade Path parts lists (Budget) and prices.
6): Updated Recommended Gaming Upgrade Path parts lists and prices. (won't be listed as updates in future)
7): Stolen the OP from Salvation122, editing the general guidlines, updating the builds and adding some advice of my own
8): Changed the LCD "DO" into a separate paragraph
9): Heh, just noticed/remembered to update the "prices and parts last updated" text
10): Changed the SLI "Don't" to reflect the price drop of SLI motherboards
11): Changed the "DO" recommended Amperage to 20A@+12V, updated 2GB DDR2-667 price, changed the DirectX10 blurb
12): Removed the "DO buy HDDs with 5y warranty", as both 7200.10 Barracudas and "RE" WDs are pretty loud and the REs seem to be slower than SE16s
13): Updated the motherboard chipset "DO", updated the link to LCD buyer's guide thread, changed the DirectX10 blurb
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra when suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come."
At night, the ice weasels come."
robaal on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
also I'd add in 975x and nforce 6 chipset for recommended pairing with core 2 duo's.
I also dont really agree with your sound card bit: the reason I got an x-fi is the feature support from games you can ONLY get with a creative product.
other solutions like onboard or m-audio might be cheaper, subjective experience might say they sound better (I disagree) but the offloading from the CPU and most importantly the EAX support for particular games is key.
You cant select the highest quality sound in BF2/2142/Prey/etc without an X-Fi card and I think that should be mentioned.
edit: otherwise good job
The present nforce 6 motherboards are more expensive than decent P965 'boards and not all 975X 'boards support C2Ds. They also do not seem to offer much more than P965.
The part about sound cards was in the original post...
At night, the ice weasels come."
Currently, there is no processor that can push two 8800gtx. Even for high end, two is overkill. This might change later on with quad core and multi threaded games but for now it is like it used to be when people would pair a geforce 3 with an old first gen p3 and then wonder why it isn't any faster than their tnt2.
Noisy fans. Only go to the trouble of oiling them if they are not suffering from excessive vibration caused by worn bearings. Sure, you can get rid of the screech, but it will still vibrate which is just as annoying.
Flat panels. Trying to give a recommendation in one sentence with these is opening a whole bag of worms. Response time isn't the only metric that should be used to judge a panel. Response times are in either b-w-b or g-g. Most panels with a low rating are rated g-g. They aren't necessarily better or even faster panels than those rated with 25ms b-w-b. There are a few types of panels now as well and the 6 bit tn panels should be avoided at all cost. Their color reproduction stinks, and their reduced color gamut will cause banding similar to looking at a 32bit gradient in 16bit mode. If you only want it for gaming and reading, it will probably be fine. If you need it for anything that needs good color reproduction you should go with a s-ips panel first, or an 8 bit tn (still pretty rare and new) panel. If you want a wide screen panel, the widescreen gaming forum has a good section that details what to look for in a flat panel.
Cases. There's microATX, miniATX, ATX, and cases designed for specific purposes such as file server, quiet operation, or htpc. I have some bias here because I absolutely need to have a quiet computer. White noise makes me tired and I have difficulty being productive if there is a constant audible source of fan noise next to me. Heavier rolled aluminum, rolled steel, or custom materials make for good solid cases that don't rattle or transmit much noise. Whether or not you care about noise, good airflow is important so be sure to pick a case that will allow for good airflow. 120mm fans move more air at a lower rpm and are much quieter than smaller fans. Nexus, Panaflo, Yate Loon (oem nexus), and Scythe are all good brands of quiet and low speed fans. Getting a case that can use 120mm fans will help with both the airflow and the noise level.
If any of this should get used, it needs to be reworded to be coherent and succinct, neither of which I am particularly good at doing.
i meant in $CAD when i typed it originally.... and i still think unless you are on the tightest budget ever, you should at least be willing to spring for the E6300 then, as its gonna last you (the socket, etc) a good while longer than an AM2 board methinks.
the general thinking ive seen so far is that 965 is better for the allendales (6300/6400) as it can raise the FSB higher than the 975x boards - but the latter should be fully capable of maxing the "rea" conroes (6600 and up) anyways, and tends to be a little more feature laden.
nforce 6 boards look like they kick lots of ass too, but I guess if you're deciding between them and intel chipsets, its more of an issue of SLI vs crossfire should oyu see yourself doing either down the road.
sorry, what do you mean about the creative thing being in the "original" post? not your opening post?
In the original "The Once and Future Computer Thread" that was stickied here before - I just edited it, as it was awfully outdated, recommending an A64 4000+ and an X1900XT as "bleeding edge".
I don't think games are that CPU-intensive. Here's some Anandtech article with benchmarks showing that, in fact, 8800GTX SLI isn't bound by the CPU at resolutions above 1600x1200 and this isn't even with AA enabled.
They also use a meager 3GHz C2D, while with water cooling and some overvolting 4GHz shouldn't be too hard to achieve.
The LCD recommendation was also from the original post and I didn't know what to do with it...
I don't think we are talking about the same thing - when ball-bearing fans lack lubrication they get very, unbearably loud; unless I haven't heard fans with worn bearings...
At night, the ice weasels come."
If it had to be narrowed down to three things, I think it should be response time, color gamut, and bit depth. The current 'standard' for response time is gray to gray and lower is better provided it doesn't sacrifice the bit depth of the panel. It is changing but many older models use 6bit panels to get lower g-g ratings. The color gamut has partly to do with the bit depth of the panel but also to do with the backlight. An led backlight will give a much better color gamut than a fluorescent backlight. Finally, the bit depth of the panel ties both the gamut and the response time together. By shaving off the range of available colors, it is possible to get a better response time, but you lose both the gamut and smooth gradients. A 6 bit panel can only produce ~260k true colors and estimates the rest using dithering.
To reply to you from the previous thread:
I formed all of these parts up from an online company's configurator. But I may just go ahead and build it myself, thus severing the limitations of a company's configurator.
I originally had switched out the Crossfire motherboard for an ASUS P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX Intel Motherboard. But then you mentioned not to go with SLI, too.
As for the case you were wanting knowledge of, I picked a random one off of their list. It didn't dawn on me to check it out for good fan space/good air flow.
This is what I had changed it to:
CPU:
(Sckt775)Intel® Core 2 Duo E6400 CPU @ 2.13GHz 1066FSB 2x1MB L2 Cache EM64T
Motherboard:
ASUS P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX Intel Motherboard * the price listed on Newegg is 207.99$$
Power Supply:
Antec TruePower TRIO 550Watt ATX 12V
Memory:
Corsair Value Select - (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory * I believe this is around 200$ as well.
Video Card:
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB PCI Express x16 Video Card
Hard Drive:
150GB Gaming Western Digital Rapter 10,000RPM SATA150 16MB Cache WD1500ADFD
untruly yours, Saint Justin the Sluggard
get rid of that raptor, and spend the money on a better video card?
Is there a substantial speed difference between RAID and SATA drives?
Also, if you wanted to upgrade to 4GB in the future, you just need to buy two more 1GB sticks, whereas with 4x 512MB you'd need to buy four 1GB sticks, and then you'd end up with the extra RAM you have to absorb the cost of or try and sell.
As for SATA Vs RAID, you're compary apples to horses.
SATA and EIDE (aka ATA133) are drive interfaces, RAID is a tool for linking drives in various forms to enhance performance or ensure data integrety.
SATA is the better of the interfaces, currently in it's second version, allowing much more data transfer over a much smaller cable than EIDE interface (the old ribbon cables). SATA cables are generally red or black, about 3/8 of an inch across, and contain only four wires, compared to the 40 in EIDE.
If you want, most motherboards include RAID controllers to set up the most basic forms of RAID:
RAID0: Two (or more) harddrives of equal value connected individually to the motherboard, the motherboard RAID controller binds them together to act like one 'Array'. Advantage is basically only that instead of managing multiple physical disks in Windows, you only have a single large disk (eg 2x250GB harddrive become 1x500GB harddrive), which you can partition up any way you'd like. There is no significant performance increase, and if any of the drives in the Array were to fail, all of the data in the Array is lost.
RAID1: Two (or a power of 2) drives of equal value connected individually to the motherboard, again bound by the controller into an Array. In RAID1 arrays, two drives appear as one, except they don't split the load like a RAID0 array. Instead, the exact same data is written to both disks at the same time (Windows only sees one harddrive). This is the most basic form of Data Protection, as if or when one of the drives fails, the other drive contains an exact duplicate and can seemlessly take over the entire operation until the faulty drive can be replaced. Disadvantage being that you only utilized half of the harddrive space you've purchased (eg 2x250GB harddrives effectively become 1x250 harddrive)
And as a final important note, you must remember that if you decide to use a RAID array in your computer, during Windows installation you will most likely be required to provide the Windows installer with additional drivers for your RAID controller. Usually these are included on the motherboard driver cdrom, in the form of a 3.5" disk making utility. You run this utility on an existing computer and it creates a 3.5" disk with the RAID drivers on it. When the Windows installer first starts there is a message at the bottom, "Press F6 to load additional drivers" or something like that.
Raid0 gives a significant performance increase for sustained writes, but not random access (seek time*). You sacrifice mtbf which may or not be important for the job at hand. I have a raid0 setup and I have sustained writes of over 100MB/s, double what I would have running without. Static benchmarks aren't a good indicator but Sandra reports a drive index of 133MB/s in raid0 and only 60MB/s without on the same drive (non raided). Applications like video capture will benefit greatly from it from raid0, especially if you are capturing uncompressed HD content.
Most newer Intel raid controllers do raid0, raid1, raid5, and raid10. Raid10 wastes the most space (50%) but it is also tied for the best performer and most redundant of the available options. You can lose one drive on every stripe and still come back with a rebuild. With the newer sata specification, you don't even need to power down to do it. The other more common raid controller is the jmicron controller and on some boards it causes performance problems with ide optical devices. On newer boards I've seen it allow for raid0, raid1, and an esata raid.
edit: Some newer raid controllers that allow jbod can have odd numbered raid1 as well. You can use two disks into one using jbod and then mirror it with one larger one.
edit2: I made a mistake about the seek time. If the data is on one drive it is the same, if it is on two, it could be up to half the seek time of regular drives. I just checked the data on my drive and the rating for the seek time is the same whether in raid or not.
500GB Serial ATA RAID 0 Stripe [2x250GB 7200rpm drives with DataBurstâ„¢ cache]
I threw together the following on www.cyberpowerpc.com, and was wondering if you can see any immediate flaws with the system.
Note: This started out as a gift, but i've also realized I need a new tower (laptop died last night. RIP) So it's going to be a gaming rig.
Case: Raidmax Sagitta Mid-Tower 420W Gaming Case(They have no cases w/o stock power supplies)
Power Supply Upgrade: Thermaltake Toughpower 700 Watt Power Supply
CPU: Intel Pentium D 945 Dual-Core CPU @ 3.4GHz 800FSB 2x2mb L2 Cache EM64T
Cooling Fan: Intel LGA775 CPU Fan & Heatsink + 3 extra case fans
Motherboard: ECS 945P-A Chipset LGA775 1066FSB DDR2/667 SATA Dual 16X PCI-Express W/7.1 Audio, GbLAN, and USB2.0
Memory: 2GB(2x1024MB) PC5300 DDR2/667 Dual Channel Corsair Value Select
Video Card: NVidia GeForce 7900 GS 256MB 16X PCI-E (Would it be worth $38 more to get a GT rather than GS?)
Hard Drives: 160GB Sata-II 2.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD x2
Optical Drives: Sony 16X DVD-ROM and LiteOn SHM-165H6S 16X Double Layer DVD+-RW Super Allwrite + Lightscribe Technology
Sound: On Board Sound (For now)
Wireless Network Card: Linksys WMP54GS 802.11G PCI Network Card
Flash Media Reader: Internal 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer
IEEE Card: IEEE 1394 Card and Driver
Floppy Drive: Yes
Final Price is $1360
I haven't used a KVM switch before, but find myself in need of one. I've got one keyboard and mouse (both USB), one monitor (accepts both VGA and DVI), and one set of speakers. I have a Macbook which I currently connect to my monitor via DVI. I also have a desktop which I connect to the monitor via VGA. I switch the display inputs with the button on the monitor, so that's not such a big deal. However, physically moving the keyboard and mouse back and forth is a real nuisance with the way my desk and stuff is orientated, so I am in search of some sort of switch. I just need a solid USB and audio switch for 2 computers. If it does DVI too and doesn't cost my first born, great, but I could save some money and not worry about that. I can deal with a manual button/switch; I don't necessarily need hotkeys.
I've searched the web for reviews and read most of them on newegg. What I've gotten is very mixed reviews of some of the products and very few reviews of others, so I'm in uncharted territory. I really worry about dropped signal or random switches, as many say their keyboard or mouse stop responding or it switches without them pushing the button.
Thanks in advance.
Kill the Pentium D and get a conroe - get a 965 chipset board, get the GT, get a board with onboard wi-fi or just use a cheapt linksys router as your access point, what brand HDD is that, and drop the sony optical drive and just use the one unless you REALLY need two - NEC is better brand
the case probably sucks look for an antec or something better. floppy should be ONLY necessary for RAID
What would you replace the raptor with?
I also found a nifty case: NZXT Zero Aluminum Full Tower
These are the specs the company gives with it:
CASE TYPE Full tower Aluminum Chassis
FRONT PANEL MATERIAL Plastic/Aluminum
DIMENSIONS (W x H x D) 210.5 X 532 X 520 mm
COOLING SYSTEM FRONT, 1 X 120 mm fan (included)
REAR, 2 X 120 mm Fan (included)
SIDE PANEL, 4 X 120mm fan (included)
TOP, 1 X 80mm Fan (included)
DRIVE BAYS 13 DRIVE BAYS
5 EXTERNAL 5.25" DRIVE BAYS
2 EXTERNAL 3.5 " DRIVE BAYS
6 INTERNAL 3.5" DRIVE BAYS
Screwless Rail Design
MATERIAL(S) Aluminum Construction
EXPANSION SLOTS 7
WEIGHT 7.35 KGS (W/O Power)
MOTHERBOARD SUPPORT MOTHERBOARDS: ATX, MICRO-ATX, BABY AT, MINI ATX
BTW, the HDD that guy posted is the company's own brand (the company he wants to possibly buy from).
untruly yours, Saint Justin the Sluggard
I doubt you'll need a 700W PSU and it most likely costs unproportionally more than a 500-550W one.
The video card you choose depends on how soon you want to upgrade and if you mind not being able to play the latest-and-greatest titles in the future. You'll most likely be forced to upgrade in 2, maybe 3 years, as developers will move to DirectX10-only games.
I should have added it to the OP, but I'll write it here first:
DirectX 10 is not backwards compatible with previous DirectX versions, that means that a game written only for DirectX 10 will not work on DX9 hardware at all. It's unlikely that such games will come out in the first year after Vista release.
OpenGL-based games don't have this problem.
At night, the ice weasels come."
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 CPU @ 2.13GHz 1066FSB 2x1MB L2 Cache EM64T
Would that be a Conroe? I honestly can't tell.
I'd rather have a wifi card, so if the wifi ever goes bonkers I can just swap a card rather than swapping a mobo. The HDDs look to be generics, not too pleased about that, and I really don't need two optical drives, I just like having the option. No Antec cases on the site.
Honestly, i'm probably going to build the computer, now that i'm looking at everything. It's just a matter of figuring out the part mixtures.
Yes, Core 2 Duo = Conroe.
At night, the ice weasels come."
Does anyone know what the hell is causing this:
and how to get rid of it? I ran Spybot, and AVG, both with current definitions, and it's appearing on my newly reformatted system. I just finally connected it to the net tonight, and that's the first thing that pops up.
I know I could just disable the messenger service, but that's releiving a symptom, not the problem. I am truly lost. :?
Start>Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Component Management>Services>Messenger>Properties (right-click)>STOP , then Disable/Manual in the startup type thing.
Or get SP2 (if you use XP).
For 2000, I think it's very similar. Except "Component Management" is left out: go straight to services.
EDIT: The problem causing this is just a (really, really) stupid design error. I mean, for any tiny feature in Windows, Microsoft has a team of like 5 people brainstorm security vulnerabilities, but this one slipped through. It isn't a sign of viruses or spyware - but if you use XP, you might think about upgrading to SP2.
sheesh. sp2. whodathunkit. :oops:
https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.asp?ID=4595107
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813127232
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819103747
After reading reviews on the motherboard apparently it has a lot of problems. I likes the specs on the mobo and would like to keep them around that level... and that price.
Any suggestions?
The first link asks me to login. I think you have to email it to yourself to get the public link? I don't use newegg (no international shipping) so I am not sure if that is how to do it but I seem to remmber someone saying that is how it should be done.
Secondly, you have linked an s939 motherboard and a socket AM2 processor. They are not compatible. You should also be avoiding s939 because it's lifespan is done now that AM2 is here. I am not up on what to get with AM2 so I can't be much more help on what board to get.
I'm now looking in to this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131068
and this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131013
I dont plan on running a Raid... at least not for awhile if anything, so should i just go with the cheaper one?
I think this wishlist link will work, but if not I'll copy out the items: https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=4366887&WishListTitle=list
Will those bits fit together? Suggestions for replacements? Anything too unreasonably priced? The motherboard seems like it might be, but it's the only one I looked at that doesn't seem to have a lot of negative comments in the reviews, and I'd rather spend $50 extra if it means avoiding a setup headache, since I am no expert on this stuff. I know pretty much nothing about building computers and just did some reading in the old computer advice thread and newegg user reviews and such.
Any advice very much appreciated. I keep putting off asking because I'm afraid of displaying my ignorance, but I kinda hope to get this figured out before the boyfriend visits in January so we can play WoW together and I can show off my new machine. >.>
I can buy the AMD set now, and be done with it... but I don't know what to do with everyone saying that intel is better at this point.
Also, Xenocide Geek, I lost the link to the list you had made me.
What the fuck are you talking about? The E6300 is exactly the same price as the X2 4200 you chose and there are some cheaper P965 'boards than that one. Every Core 2 Duo is better than a competing Athlon 64 X2 at the same price point
And don't bother with SLI unless you intend to use it.
You don't need that RAM, unless you will be using the mail-in-rebate, in which case the price isn't that bad; they are rated to work at 1,9V but I suspect they will still boot - just at a lower frequency/voltage. If you want to play around with overclocking then the "C4" version of that memory is supposed to be very good, and it also has a MIR.
Most of the problems with P965 motherboards are caused by RAM incompatibility (though some of the ASUS boards don't support C2Ds out of the box and need a BIOS update... but you need a compatible CPU to do that yourself :?). IMO as long as you get supported RAM you shouldn't have many problems, the Gigabyte DS3 seems to be pretty good - the only downside I see is lack of RAID 5 and maybe firewire.
You should be able to find a list of tested-compatible RAM on the motherboard manufacturer's webpage, or in the manual that you can download there. The support forums might be helpful in determining that also.
From what I've read Acer LCDs aren't very good. In the previous thread someone mentioned that newegg isn't the best place to get displays from; Amazon was recommended.
Viewsonic seems to have the best consistent quality.
I suggest replacing the 7950GT with a cheaper 7900GT, some of them drop to $200 after MIR; the Gigabyte's card has clocks of 525/1440.
I think that the 7900GT should be fine for now, and you'll have $70 extra to spend on a new DX10 card when they become mainstream.
The 256MB X1900XT are back in stock also, costing about the same, though I doubt that it would be faster than the overclocked 7950GT; you might like the ATI features more though (temporal anti-aliasing, HQ anisotropic filtering, the ability to run HDR and AA in Oblivion).
Get some better mouse. The Microsoft-Razer mouse was released, $52 is a bit much IMO, the Logitech G5 is a bit cheaper at $46 and provides the same resolution. Then there's the MX518 at $40 which should be good enough.
I use the MS Laser 6000 which has only half the resolution of the top mousen but also costs only $25.
At night, the ice weasels come."
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115005
What motherboard would you put with it? Taking price in to consideration, nothing flashy, just good.
A good source of information on hardware are the support forums of the various manufacturer's, so you might want to check them out before choosing a 'board...
At night, the ice weasels come."
I've heard good things about the Foxconn P965 boards.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186102
Cheap and effective, and a decent overclocker. They make one for a little more money that does Firewire and RAID, but Newegg doesn't stock it for whatever reason.
Buying an extra long 32" IDE cord per advice on the newegg comments about the motherboard seeing as how my case is on the very large side.
I have an approximately 3-year-old Dell Inspiron 8100. Will this give me wireless internet access with it?
At night, the ice weasels come."