My ISP is a dick

Butters

So I used Measurementlab.net to determine that my ISP was throttling bittorrent traffic but luckily there are ways around that with a good client with encryption features. Today I thought I'd setup Netflix on my 360 which says my connection is too slow for it to run which would make little sense under normal circumstances as I have a measured 4.0MBit downstream (using dslreports.com). Given that I've seen my download speeds go as high as 400k/s and my roommate has complained about Hulu being slow I suspect my ISP is yet again guilty of throttling certain content.

I haven't tried gaming on my 360 with this ISP yet but I fear the worst as it took several hours to download a 400MB DLC pack and streaming video is looking like a lost cause. I tried bypassing the router and bringing the internet connection directly to the 360 and I actually got this warning:

http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/kb.aspx?id=958429&lcid=1033&category=xboxlive

Which the way I see it identifies an issue with the ISP but oddly enough I don't get that warning when I connect my 360 to the router.

The question I pose is this: Is there any way to bypass this problem like I was able to with the bittorrent client? Is there a way to mask my XBL traffic keep my dick of an ISP from making it unusable?

exoplasm

Call your ISP and complain that you are having problems with XBL. Escalate to higher level techs if necessary (the level 1 guys will usually get uncomfortable if they can't follow the script for your problem).

Complain that Hulu, Youtube, XBL, whatever else (but not torrents, of course) are slow and unusable and you are not getting the service you pay for.

If they can't fix it they might give you a credit of some sort at least.

Butters

Well I am not in any way interested in a credit I just want my internet to not suck. I planned on calling them but I don't anticipate it going well as they might have a monopoly on my apartment complex. I am hoping there's a DSL carrier that offers service in my building but I have yet to find one. AT&T and Verizon are most common in Cleveland and they do not offer service for my zip code apparently.

archonwarp

Do you buy any chance have Time Warner? I live in the Akron area and I've deal with a lot of stuff from them. I've had frequent problems with my ISP, and from my experience, the best way to get them to help you is to have the data in front of them. Take speed tests, pings, traceroutes, and everything you'd need for any site you can. They'll then insist that it's a problem with the sites you're connecting too and that it couldn't possibly be their fault. Tell them that they're wrong because it's happening constantly with all the sites you access. As long as you're willing to at least let them follow their script, they should kick you to the next level of tech support.

TK-42-1

its best to be calm and collected because if you start yelling they're less likely to bump you up to someone who could actually do something for you

Butters

Time Warner is not an option as my building does not allow cable internet. TV and internet are handled by this company called Discernity. Internet doesn't come in via cable or DSL. They have CAT 5 connections in each apartment in the building.

bowen

Butters wrote: »

Time Warner is not an option as my building does not allow cable internet. TV and internet are handled by this company called Discernity. Internet doesn't come in via cable or DSL. They have CAT 5 connections in each apartment in the building.

Bwah?

Do they allow cable TV? If so, the landlord probably just won't let new ISPs come in and install equipment outside of the rental unit because they have an agreement with big ISP suckyshit.

They can't dictate what type of service you use if the infrastructure is already in place. They'd be ridiculous.

I'd hate to live in an apartment that told me I had to buy my energy solely from wind power or something retarded like that.

Edit:

Oh, I see, they have proprietary stuff in there. Neverthemind.

Ego

I'd call the local cable providers and ask if they're physically capable of running the line to your apartment. If they are, tell your landlord that he can give the okay for you getting cable internet or that he can return your security deposit.

Don't be rude about it, just explain in a calm and collected manner that the internet is a requirement for your entertainment, and that the level of service provided by him is insufficient to keep you in the apartment. Explain that latency is too high for enjoying the online gaming that you do, and bandwidth is too low for the files you want to download.

At least that's what I'd do. And yes, I've moved because of shitty internet access.

bowen

Same here.

Butters

Talking to the landlord isn't really an option. This is a large, downtown apartment complex with a management company and everything. They have a service that provides infrastructure for television (by being an overpriced DirecTV middle man) and internet. Getting a cable company to hook me up really doesn't look like an option.

I talked with tech support. Told them I am hoping to bypass their restrictions and they said they'd pass my case onto a senior network engineer or whatever and get back to me. I am also looking into DSL availability as the one thing Discernity doesn't control is phone service. Hopefully this will pan out one way or another. Too bad I can't just encrypt all internet traffic like I was able to with Bittorrent to bypass their packet shaper.

EDIT: I think I found a DSL provider for my area that can be used as leverage. If that doesn't work hopefully they don't have the same bullshit restrictions.

Ego

Well, there's definitely going to be someone who you can liase with, even if it's a management company, but I'll concede that you're far less likely to have a management company make an exception and allow you to install cable than when dealing with an individual landlord. I'd still try, if the ISP says they can't help you out and it turns out you can't get DSL access. And, as said, then I'd move. Sorry to not be of more help, here.

Butters

Well I am not moving over streaming netflix because I fucking love this apartment. Also I signed a 12-month lease.

Ego

If they're only shaping certain forms of traffic, you might wish to consider a VPN tunneled routing service. I honestly can't say if it'd be good enough for gaming (mine isn't, my pings go to hell --but my tunnel also goes to Sweden) but if you found a fairly local proxy service (ideally just far enough away to get past your traffic shaping) it might be fast enough. Really depends on if they curtail VPN tunneling or not as a form of traffic shaping... but if you're dead set on staying there, maybe it's worth trying.

You'll have to pay, though. I'm sure you can hunt up a free service to try stuff like netflix, but there's no way you'll be able to do all your internet stuff short of a dedicated pay service.

necroSYS

Man, just how evil is this whole fucking page?
http://www.discernity.com/apartment.html

Yeah, I'd go to your landlord and tell them that they can either let you have a different cable provider or they can let you out of your lease and go fuck themselves.

necroSYS

Butters wrote: »

EDIT: I think I found a DSL provider for my area that can be used as leverage. If that doesn't work hopefully they don't have the same bullshit restrictions.

Don't expect nearly the downstream with DSL that you get with Cable.

exoplasm

DSL is at least easier to get than cable in this instance and can easily beat 4mb downstream (what weird number is that anyway? I've only seen 1.5/3/6/10+).

I second the "let me install cable or take me off the lease and go fuck yourselves" idea.

Spoit

necroSYS wrote: »

Man, just how evil is this whole fucking page?
http://www.discernity.com/apartment.html

Yeah, I'd go to your landlord and tell them that they can either let you have a different cable provider or they can let you out of your lease and go fuck themselves.

Delinquent residents are cozily sitting in your apartments
watching TV while you pay a lawyer to get an eviction notice –
what if you could shut off their TV if they don’t pay?

I have no words

necroSYS

exoplasm wrote: »

DSL is at least easier to get than cable in this instance and can easily beat 4mb downstream (what weird number is that anyway? I've only seen 1.5/3/6/10+).

I second the "let me install cable or take me off the lease and go fuck yourselves" idea.

Man, I seriously think that anyone who is getting 8-10 Mbps downstream on DSL has an apartment inside the colo.

exoplasm

necroSYS wrote: »

exoplasm wrote: »

DSL is at least easier to get than cable in this instance and can easily beat 4mb downstream (what weird number is that anyway? I've only seen 1.5/3/6/10+).

I second the "let me install cable or take me off the lease and go fuck yourselves" idea.

Man, I seriously think that anyone who is getting 8-10 Mbps downstream on DSL has an apartment inside the colo.

Ok, I've only seen DSL offered at 6mb max (unless you get DSL2 from SpeakEasy or something). Good point.

Also OP you can use speedtest.comcast.net for extra data points. Also speakeasy.net/speedtest.

Make sure that being unable to use XBL and NetFlix are the big issues or it will probably never get resolved.

Butters

necroSYS wrote: »

Man, just how evil is this whole fucking page?
http://www.discernity.com/apartment.html

Yeah, I'd go to your landlord and tell them that they can either let you have a different cable provider or they can let you out of your lease and go fuck themselves.

Um...yeah I don't think you know how leases work. They don't break them for bullshit with ISPs. You accept the limitations of the building's services when you sign the lease.

Also, as I already stated this is not worth moving over so please stop suggesting it.

necroSYS wrote: »

Butters wrote: »

EDIT: I think I found a DSL provider for my area that can be used as leverage. If that doesn't work hopefully they don't have the same bullshit restrictions.

Don't expect nearly the downstream with DSL that you get with Cable.

The provider I found says they offer up to 8Mbps. That's more than enough and twice what I have now. Does cable offer much more than that? I doubt it.

Barrakketh

necroSYS wrote: »

exoplasm wrote: »

DSL is at least easier to get than cable in this instance and can easily beat 4mb downstream (what weird number is that anyway? I've only seen 1.5/3/6/10+).

I second the "let me install cable or take me off the lease and go fuck yourselves" idea.

Man, I seriously think that anyone who is getting 8-10 Mbps downstream on DSL has an apartment inside the colo.

In the US. I've seen forumers in other countries on plans in the 20-30 Mbps range with ADSL.

necroSYS

Butters wrote: »

necroSYS wrote: »

Man, just how evil is this whole fucking page?
http://www.discernity.com/apartment.html

Yeah, I'd go to your landlord and tell them that they can either let you have a different cable provider or they can let you out of your lease and go fuck themselves.

Um...yeah I don't think you know how leases work. They don't break them for bullshit with ISPs. You accept the limitations of the building's services when you sign the lease.

I know exactly how leases work. Unless you signed an addendum to accept their shitty bundled service (and you'd be an idiot to do that), they can't force you to use their monopoly. If you signed it, enjoy your next 12 months of crap service.

Also, as I already stated this is not worth moving over so please stop suggesting it.

Then don't make a thread about it.

Butters

I didn't I made a thread about bypassing my current ISP's security. Read the fucking OP.

Artreus

Uh necro. No. He said he wouldn't move because of the internet. There are all sorts of other options here so why the hell shouldn't he make a thread about it. Also I still don't think you know how his lease works.

necroSYS

Butters wrote: »

I didn't I made a thread about bypassing my current ISP's security. Read the fucking OP.

No, the OP was about bypassing the problem. The solution presented was to bypass it by using a different carrier. It was phrased as such:

"Go to your lessor and say "Let me use my own cable or else let me out of my lease."

All of that is perfectly within the bounds of the thread.

Again, if you signed an addendum to your lease that you'll accept whatever two-bit ridiculous monopolistic bullshit ISP, then that solution will not work for you.

But don't FUH FUH FUH about not wanting to move or that "no one gets my lease, man" when what you're being offered is the most sensible way around your current predicament.

Otherwise, you're looking at end-to-end encryption between you and a proxy service, which won't be cheap and may not be terribly fast, either.

Butters

How is packing up everything and moving the most sensible way around my current predicament? Are you high? Have you ever signed a lease of any kind? Do you have any idea what it takes to break them?

necroSYS

It's like you're reading these posts through some kind of autistic filter....

xzzy

Traffic shaping is very dubious legally (in the sense it's been untested in a court and there's a lot of lobbying against it).. I bet if you can find them filtering your traffic, you could send a letter to the EFF. Publicity is a pretty powerful tool.

necroSYS

I don't think the EFF is going to get a lot of mileage out of a tin-shit monopoly like this. They usually like to go after the big service providers that get them in the headlines.

What's their biggest upside? Regional jerk-water ISP is forced to change to the same kind of tiered-bandwidth bullshit that Charter and Time-Warner are already using?

They have a captive market. Their entire marketing strategy is to appeal to apartment management companies who are trying to minimize costs by selling them this hilarious service (with the added benefit of turning off the tenant's cable and internet any time the apartment manager feels like it).

Artreus

necroSYS wrote: »

It's like you're reading these posts through some kind of autistic filter....

Necro. The normal thing to do in this situation is not just pack up everything he owns and move to another location in the city when he has signed a lease stating he will live there for 12 months. He may or may not have all of that time left on his lease, my guess is much less time.

I don't think he oh so desperately needs his innernets for xbox so badly that he is going to go through the costs of finding a new place right away when he could do a host of other things and I don't see why you are all up on his dick about moving.

xzzy

necroSYS wrote: »

What's their biggest upside? Regional jerk-water ISP is forced to change to the same kind of tiered-bandwidth bullshit that Charter and Time-Warner are already using?

I was under the impression it was more than a regional ISP. But it's not like I did any research on the company.

necroSYS

Okay, let me spell it out for you people.

The point was the threat of being let out of the lease ($$$$ out the window for the management company) vs. them just letting him pick his own cable provider.

Again, as I said, if he signed a lease addendum about allowing the crappy monopoly in the place to be his provider, then he's screwed and needs to either pay up for a phone line and DSL or a secure proxy.

Jesus, it's like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids or something..

necroSYS

xzzy wrote: »

necroSYS wrote: »

What's their biggest upside? Regional jerk-water ISP is forced to change to the same kind of tiered-bandwidth bullshit that Charter and Time-Warner are already using?

I was under the impression it was more than a regional ISP. But it's not like I did any research on the company.

From their hilariously-bad website:

Discernity has customers in Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia, and Indiana.

So, they're basically covering Kentucky and the states that touch it.

xzzy

Yeah, I don't know what the threshold for grabbing the EFF's interest is.

If I were the EFF I'd do it just to be a nice guy, but that's just me.

Butters

necroSYS wrote: »

The point was the threat of being let out of the lease ($$$$ out the window for the management company) vs. them just letting him pick his own cable provider.

Which is like the emptiest threat ever. When you sign a lease you can't threaten to get let out of it just because a bug flew up your ass. You have to actually find that the property's management is violating the lease or doing something illegal. Managing the communication utilities in their building certainly doesn't qualify.

So yeah saying "You guys better let me get AT&T U-verse or I'm gonna see if you'll let me out of my lease provided I find a replacement renter within a reasonable time frame!" makes positively zero sense.

xzzy

Butters wrote: »

necroSYS wrote: »

The point was the threat of being let out of the lease ($$$$ out the window for the management company) vs. them just letting him pick his own cable provider.

Which is like the emptiest threat ever. When you sign a lease you can't threaten to get let out of it just because a bug flew up your ass. You have to actually find that the property's management is violating the lease or doing something illegal. Managing the communication utilities in their building certainly doesn't qualify.

Well, since we're all pretending to be lawyers now, there are some limits to how far they can go. How much the law favors the tenant varies by state, but in general, no contract can sign away your basic rights.

Now, whether or not choice in cable provider is a 'basic right' is up for debate. But you'd have to haul everyone involved into a court room, spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees, not to mention a year or more of your life to get an answer to that question.

My gut feeling is that a court would agree with you, but it's definitely not worth the effort.

necroSYS

Butters wrote: »

necroSYS wrote: »

The point was the threat of being let out of the lease ($$$$ out the window for the management company) vs. them just letting him pick his own cable provider.

Which is like the emptiest threat ever. When you sign a lease you can't threaten to get let out of it just because a bug flew up your ass. You have to actually find that the property's management is violating the lease or doing something illegal. Managing the communication utilities in their building certainly doesn't qualify.

So yeah saying "You guys better let me get AT&T U-verse or I'm gonna see if you'll let me out of my lease provided I find a replacement renter within a reasonable time frame!" makes positively zero sense.

Sorry, not allowing you to use an alternate vendor for services constitutes at least an exclusion clause and possibly restraint of trade and would easily be grounds for a suit. Their downside far outweighs the upside of just letting you get your own damn cable.

But hey, keep throwing up a smokescreen. I'm not the one sitting there with shitty internet.

exoplasm

Barrakketh wrote: »

necroSYS wrote: »

exoplasm wrote: »

DSL is at least easier to get than cable in this instance and can easily beat 4mb downstream (what weird number is that anyway? I've only seen 1.5/3/6/10+).

I second the "let me install cable or take me off the lease and go fuck yourselves" idea.

Man, I seriously think that anyone who is getting 8-10 Mbps downstream on DSL has an apartment inside the colo.

In the US. I've seen forumers in other countries on plans in the 20-30 Mbps range with ADSL.

Yeah in the US you're not getting those speeds on DSL. Ever. You'll get fiber first.

On the other hand I get 30mbps down and 2mbps up with my cable modem. Which will piss me off royally when TW decides to cap it (at anything) because my roommate and I could break the cap in a week between youtube and steam his photography site he uploads huge-ass photos to.

Butters

xzzy wrote: »

Butters wrote: »

necroSYS wrote: »

The point was the threat of being let out of the lease ($$$$ out the window for the management company) vs. them just letting him pick his own cable provider.

Which is like the emptiest threat ever. When you sign a lease you can't threaten to get let out of it just because a bug flew up your ass. You have to actually find that the property's management is violating the lease or doing something illegal. Managing the communication utilities in their building certainly doesn't qualify.

Well, since we're all pretending to be lawyers now, there are some limits to how far they can go. How much the law favors the tenant varies by state, but in general, no contract can sign away your basic rights.

Now, whether or not choice in cable provider is a 'basic right' is up for debate. But you'd have to haul everyone involved into a court room, spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees, not to mention a year or more of your life to get an answer to that question.

My gut feeling is that a court would agree with you, but it's definitely not worth the effort.

I really highly doubt choosing a cable provider in a building I don't own is considered a basic right.

exoplasm

Here's how it generally works (from my understanding):

City grants Telephone Company and Cable Company franchise agreements to serve their city. Typically this requires providing service at request of potential customer if they are not already served.

Apartment buildings can contract with specific providers, even those who only have a CLEC agreement (like this company probably has) with the ILECs (cable/phone companies). They can refuse service from the ILECs as the city franchise agreement does not require them to serve those who do not want to be served (duh).

Since you are not the owner of the property you cannot request any ILEC or CLEC to run you a line. Period.

If you have phone lines from the ILEC instead of this CLEC you can get DSL from them or a third party carrier (speakeasy is good from personal experience, though pricey).

Moe Fwacky

Cox Cable gives me 15mb downstream and doesn't throttle. It sucks that it's only available in the suburbs of Cleveland and not inside the city. I get more bottlenecking from my router than I do my ISP. Sucks about that Dicernity crap. I think your right that your best bet is DSL. 8mbps isn't bad, my connection used to be 9 before they kicked it up and that was still good. I'm actually pretty surprised that your cable provider is only giving you 4, but they seem like a really shady (clientside) provider from what I saw of that site.