I'll be sure to tell him when I walk past his statue tomorrow.
Stuff like this always just seems like a tokenistic gesture to me. I know it's important to acknowledge past ills, but it doesn't change anything and when it's been this long after the fact, I do wonder what an apology even means when it comes from somebody who was only 3 when Turing died. Although in this case it might provide Stonewall with a platform to discuss current gay rights issues, which would be a good thing.
Wow, I, uh, didn't really know anything about Turing save the whole "Turing test" thing. I kinda knew he was involved with code stuff, but really didn't know the extent.
I also had no idea about his sexuality, persecution, or death.
It's a good thing to know, albeit not a very happy one.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
I'm glad I'm alive now. I can't imagine being presented with such a grotesque choice.
I imagine that it would go for me much the way it did for him.
And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.
And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.
Pretty much this. Nothing is going to fix what happened to Turing. The government, however, can make it clear that what happened was wrong and should never happen to anyone again.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.
Pretty spot on. It doesn't do a bit of good for Mr. Turing personally, of course... but, even judging by how many people in this thread have suddenly become aware of the grotesque and egregious policies of the past, it's resulting in awareness.
Awareness is a good first step toward making a better world.
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
Oh for sure, I'm not saying it's pointless because it definitely isn't, I just always find it slightly sad that a man has to wait over fifty years for an apology about something as bogus as being prosecuted for being gay (especially when the man in question has been dead for the overwhelming majority of that time).
And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
I'm also glad that this is bringing Turing's persecution, as well as his accomplishments into the public eye, even briefly. Several people have posted already that they didn't know he did anything besides the Turing Test or Turing Machines.
I really believe that at some point in the future, Turing will be considered by historians as much an important and revolutionary figure as Gutenberg was. The man basically single-handedly laid the foundations for the interconnected 21st century world, and created an entirely new field of science in the process.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Trying so hard not to make a Short Circuit joke here.
Didn't know this about Turing. Hell, didn't know that the UK did chemical castration.
Heh, all these years I kept thinking the Apple logo was a homage to Turing, but Wikipedia says it's not. Too bad, would've been cooler if it was true.
Damn, I was coming in here to say something about the Apple logo. Well, ignorance fought. At least the other aspects of his death that I knew about (he wanted to leave his death ambiguous to give his mother plausible deniability; the apple was a reference to Snow White, his favourite fairy tale) are, if not true, possible interpretations.
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
Are we talking about the Thatcher that wanted to put gays in camps to combat HIV? That Thatcher?
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BobCescaIs a girlBirmingham, UKRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Signing a petition has it's advantages.
Thank you for signing this petition. The Prime Minister has written a
response. Please read below.
Prime Minister: 2009 has been a year of deep reflection – a chance for
Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who
came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred
in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British
experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to
honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches
of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which
have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take
up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am
both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists,
historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and
celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of
dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.
Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on
breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that,
without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could
well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can
point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt
of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that
he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross
indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he
was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own
life just two years later.
Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing
and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt
with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his
treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance
to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and
the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted
under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more
lived in fear of conviction.
I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this
government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT
community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most
famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long
overdue.
But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to
humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united,
democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once
the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in
living memory, people could become so consumed by hate – by
anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices
– that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European
landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls
which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is
thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism,
people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war
are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.
So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely
thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved
so much better.
Yeah luckily Turing's prosecution and suicide/murder were part of the dang curriculum in the CS department at my school. It's always interesting how many people have a passing familiarity with the man but no clue about his sexuality and death. You'd just think that'd always be part of the story.
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.
Thank you for signing this petition. The Prime Minister has written a
response. Please read below.
Prime Minister: 2009 has been a year of deep reflection – a chance for
Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who
came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred
in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British
experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to
honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches
of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which
have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take
up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am
both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists,
historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and
celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of
dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.
Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on
breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that,
without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could
well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can
point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt
of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that
he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross
indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he
was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own
life just two years later.
Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing
and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt
with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his
treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance
to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and
the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted
under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more
lived in fear of conviction.
I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this
government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT
community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most
famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long
overdue.
But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to
humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united,
democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once
the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in
living memory, people could become so consumed by hate – by
anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices
– that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European
landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls
which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is
thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism,
people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war
are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.
So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely
thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved
so much better.
Gordon Brown
Wow, I honestly teared up a bit at that.
Mark me down as someone who respected Turing but had no idea about his tragic demise.
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.
That is remarkably sad.
Hahaha. Well, this just means good looking dudes need to step up.
Wow, I'm glad they did it, I wasn't hopeful to be honest. Iit really doesn't do much to lessen the tragedy, but as has been said making his story more known is always a good thing.
I studied Turing for years for my thesis and my master degree and I had no clue about it until I read the dedicatory of a book to "the tragic end of Alan Turing" which intrigued me and made search his biography. Boy was I shocked, as the gay computer nerd I am it had an even bigger impact.
Yeah luckily Turing's prosecution and suicide/murder were part of the dang curriculum in the CS department at my school. It's always interesting how many people have a passing familiarity with the man but no clue about his sexuality and death. You'd just think that'd always be part of the story.
As one of my engineering friends would idiotically say,
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
Are we talking about the Thatcher that wanted to put gays in camps to combat HIV? That Thatcher?
Cat posted before I could, but yes, Thatcher would have gargled broken glass before apologizing to Turing.
Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.
Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
Are we talking about the Thatcher that wanted to put gays in camps to combat HIV? That Thatcher?
Cat posted before I could, but yes, Thatcher would have gargled broken glass before apologizing to Turing.
Which is why it would have been all the more impressive than Brown doing it now right before turning out the lights in #10.
Posts
Stuff like this always just seems like a tokenistic gesture to me. I know it's important to acknowledge past ills, but it doesn't change anything and when it's been this long after the fact, I do wonder what an apology even means when it comes from somebody who was only 3 when Turing died. Although in this case it might provide Stonewall with a platform to discuss current gay rights issues, which would be a good thing.
I also had no idea about his sexuality, persecution, or death.
It's a good thing to know, albeit not a very happy one.
I imagine that it would go for me much the way it did for him.
And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.
Pretty spot on. It doesn't do a bit of good for Mr. Turing personally, of course... but, even judging by how many people in this thread have suddenly become aware of the grotesque and egregious policies of the past, it's resulting in awareness.
Awareness is a good first step toward making a better world.
Oh for sure, I'm not saying it's pointless because it definitely isn't, I just always find it slightly sad that a man has to wait over fifty years for an apology about something as bogus as being prosecuted for being gay (especially when the man in question has been dead for the overwhelming majority of that time).
And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.
i think that's a good thing too actually
Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
I really believe that at some point in the future, Turing will be considered by historians as much an important and revolutionary figure as Gutenberg was. The man basically single-handedly laid the foundations for the interconnected 21st century world, and created an entirely new field of science in the process.
Didn't know this about Turing. Hell, didn't know that the UK did chemical castration.
Confined to a tiny spit of sand, unable to escape,
But tonight, it's heavy stuff.
I had no idea. This is absolutely horrible.
On the black screen
I always liked that urban legend, even though i knew it was false.
Damn, I was coming in here to say something about the Apple logo. Well, ignorance fought. At least the other aspects of his death that I knew about (he wanted to leave his death ambiguous to give his mother plausible deniability; the apple was a reference to Snow White, his favourite fairy tale) are, if not true, possible interpretations.
response. Please read below.
Prime Minister: 2009 has been a year of deep reflection – a chance for
Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who
came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred
in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British
experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to
honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches
of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which
have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take
up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am
both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists,
historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and
celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of
dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.
Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on
breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that,
without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could
well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can
point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt
of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that
he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross
indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he
was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own
life just two years later.
Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing
and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt
with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his
treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance
to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and
the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted
under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more
lived in fear of conviction.
I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this
government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT
community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most
famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long
overdue.
But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to
humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united,
democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once
the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in
living memory, people could become so consumed by hate – by
anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices
– that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European
landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls
which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is
thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism,
people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war
are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.
So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely
thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved
so much better.
Gordon Brown
That's all 31 flavors of fucked up.
Well, I think it's just balls dissolved.
So only 30 flavors of fucked up. With crushed nuts.
That's where I learned of his existence.
That is remarkably sad.
Wow, I honestly teared up a bit at that.
Mark me down as someone who respected Turing but had no idea about his tragic demise.
Hahaha. Well, this just means good looking dudes need to step up.
I studied Turing for years for my thesis and my master degree and I had no clue about it until I read the dedicatory of a book to "the tragic end of Alan Turing" which intrigued me and made search his biography. Boy was I shocked, as the gay computer nerd I am it had an even bigger impact.
Seriously.
As somebody else said: Gay dude saves western civilization, gets persecuted and driven to suicide for being gay.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
As one of my engineering friends would idiotically say,
"His science is what matters."
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It shows how far we have come.
And how far we have to go.
3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
He has several.
I'm a huge fan of the one of him on the park bench posted earlier in the thread. The subtle "Fuck you" in his hand is brilliant.
Someone mentioned this before, I seem to be missing something. It's an apple, right? I don't get it.
He committed suicide by eating a poisoned apple.
He killed himself by eating a poisoned apple.
EDIT: beaten.
From what I've read, he was a huge fan of Disney's Snow white.
Cat posted before I could, but yes, Thatcher would have gargled broken glass before apologizing to Turing.
Which is why it would have been all the more impressive than Brown doing it now right before turning out the lights in #10.