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Fidelity.
DasUberEdward
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
What's your take on? Are there merits? Do you have a strict disdain for all who are unfaithful to their partners or is it something that doesn't really bother you? Could you cheat? Would you?
I'm just kind of curious as to where the general populace stands. My opinion on the whole matter is pretty invalid and I can't quite come out and actually ask people because the majority will be hindered by the social stigma, so since this is a little less public. . .go for it.
I'm just kind of curious as to where the general populace stands. My opinion on the whole matter is pretty invalid and I can't quite come out and actually ask people because the majority will be hindered by the social stigma, so since this is a little less public. . .go for it.
DasUberEdward on
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We've both been fairly open about the fact that were one of us to cheat, we'd likely forgive and move on, barring an actual "affair".
I don't have a huge problem with cheating, and I'm certainly not of the mindset that if someone does it once, you should dismiss them from your life. It's just the breaking of an implicit (usually while dating) or explicit (in marriage, typically) social agreement...while it's regrettable, I'd like to think most reasonable people can get past it, and not toss out an otherwise worthwhile relationship over a singular mistake.
Personally I think it's a load of shit. I've never felt that people could handle not being monogamists very well, since somewhere along the line everything goes to hell in one or the other relationship. Judging from that, and from my own feelings that I wouldn't be able to cheat, I can't see how there are any merits.
The definition of fidelity varies from every culture. If a couple can find it acceptable to get gratificiation from others on occasion I see no issue with it.
That isn't exactly the best devil's advocacy. "You're able to do whatever you want" implies that neither party minds that you're not faithful as well as implies that you yourself will never find yourself choosing one person over another. I think it's safe to say that most people would end up giving priority to one of their partners that they feel a better click with. It's all downhill to monogamy from there.
I know that people can justify it in a number of ways, and I try not to be judgemental, because its just my own personal thing - But sometimes I do find I judge a person's character by their attitude towards the issue. I'm not proud of it.
I've had a number of partners, but I've genuinely cared about all of them. Its just not something I'd do to someone I care about. I guess it also depends on how you view the act. If its nothing more than a physical thing - then I guess it becomes a different story.
Of course, that's assuming the relationship is based on monogamistic principles. If you've defined some other kind of relationship with your partner, then you should follow that social contract. It's not cheating if you've both agree that multiple sexual partners are okay.
I, however, will never agree to such a relationship. I will not cheat and I will expect my partner not to as well. Someone suggested that it's not worth breaking up a relationship over. Maybe not for you. For me? Yes.
Honestly.
:^:
But I have to agree that when you're in a relationship with you love and trust and care about, it's better. It's almost totally different.
I feel that if I get involved with a girl, she has a right to know that I am in an open relationship. Women tend to have the Monogamy type of mind, so then I get turned down. Out of about 20-25 girls I have approached, 2 have said okay.
Now then, on my girlfriend's side, guys pretty much never turn her down. She approaches guys less frequently then I do, but she has near a 90% success rate.
Now, this wouldn't be considered cheating at face, but I honestly think that the numbers just aren't in my favor.
(Note, I am not complaining about my relationship. Just using it as an example guys and gals.)
People might say "dude thats boring, nothing will ever be new!"... I say you're doing it wrong.
You can keep "purely physical" sex. We're having a blast.
I was part of this camp for a while until I met my current girlfriend. Everything is on just such another level than any other long-term relationship I've ever been in. It's truely amazing. It's not that I don't want to cheat (well, I don't) it's that the thought hasn't ever even crossed my mind. An odd shift for me.
Fidelity just means that you adhere to the trust and the boundaries you and your partner come up with together. I won't sit in judgment of those that come to different social contracts than what I would be willing to agree to. I wouldn't agree to anything less than monogamy. I don't believe in the "it just happened!" excuse. Total bullshit.
I think the sex act would hurt me less than the broken trust it implied, and the lack of integrity it suggested, if my agreement with my partner was to maintain a monogamous relationship. *shrug*
Gotta agree with Drez on this one. I've never cheated and never will. I've never done the open relationship thing, but I did have a period where I did just sleep around. Fun at first, but not really as fulfilling as most of the relationships I've had. Open relationships aren't wrong; they're just not for me, I guess. I couldn't deal with my girlfriend fucking other guys while we're under the auspices of a relationship, because when you're in a relationship, there's more to sex than just the act.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
I love my girlfriend more than any other woman I've ever been with, and she loves me the same. But now and then, we just feel like fucking somebody else, be it a like-minded friend or just someone we're physically attracted to. When I'm with that other person, I definitely fall into the "hey, chill out, it's just sex" camp.
But with her? Man, it's in a completely different league. Emotional attachment makes it SOSOOSOSOSOOOOO much better.
- Soren Kierkegaard
If you know about it and said you were okay with it, she isn't cheating. Same the other way around.
Yeah, but there are some people who, even then, think it's a terrible thing.
- Soren Kierkegaard
I would never participate in an open relationship. Maybe I'm just emotionally selfish and I don't want to share that act with anyone but my partner or have her share that act with anyone but me. *shrug* I haven't analyzed myself to that point, but I know that it's definitely not for me.
Those are the people that do the whole "just because you think differently to me, you're wrong" thing. If you can betray someone's trust and laugh it off - Thats what more people will take issue with.
There are also people who think condoms are a terrible thing.
this about sums it up for me too.
Been there... I'm drunk, its dark, and the damn thing's upside down.
"Wait, what the f.... Oh, come on. Geez. Whats wrong with this thing? ROLL DAMNIT ROLL!"
Yeah, it's definitely not something I would recommend to everyone, though the rarity of it leads me to wonder how many people should really give it a shot.
- Soren Kierkegaard
The fact that the rarity of it by itself doesn't in any way define any reason for the rarity of it. As far as I can see the reason is just as likely to be social-pressure as it is to be some fundamental and inescapable problem with the very concept of an open relationship. More likely, actually.
I dunno. Isn't the modern marriage cliche that it's a painful, sex-drive-killing misery train?
- Soren Kierkegaard
My parents did get divorced, for that reason, and it was pretty tough to see my mother so hurt over it all.
A few weeks ago, I was speaking to my mother about my grandfather (whom I have very limited memories of) I was basically expressing my regret that I was so young when he died and I don't really have any fond memories of him. She told me that my grandfather used to take my father and his brother out on camping trips and tell them that whatever he did on the camping trip was between them, not to tell their mother, and he would pick up women in bars. (It made me feel rather upset.)
My older brother cheated on his wife with multiple women, something that upset me greatly, and something he blames on our family's "culture of cheating". They have also divorced, for the same reasons.
Its tough seeing their kids go through such a hard time because my stupid brother couldn't keep it in his pants.
I have only been married for a year and a half, but I can't imagine ever cheating on my husband. Marriage is sacred, I made vows to be loyal to my husband, I couldn't dismiss them so easily. I am in no way bothered by the idea of being with only one person for the rest of my life, and I don't really understand what people are thinking when they cheat/ or what compells them to cheat.
I saw Vincent's post where he said he spoke with his wife, and that his wife would probably forgive him for cheating, and he would do the same for her. In my case it was the other way around, my husband and I have talked about it, and I don't think I could ever forgive my husband for cheating on me. I'll still love him, of course, but I would never be able to trust him again, and would probably seek a divorce.
All that being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with having "open" relationships, as long as both parties are aware of whats going on and are ok with it. Dating/sleeping with multiple people is something I would never do though. I guess I'm just old fashioned.
tldr; Cheating is bad, but not as bad if both parties are ok with it.
One of them, but I don't see the relevance.
Good post, except it's not "cheating" if both parties are OK with it. Cheating implies infidelity and fidelity is only broken if you break the agreement/contract you made with your spouse or partner. I don't consider multiple sexual relationships in an open relationship to be "cheating" whatsoever.
I do, however, believe the default contract to be monogamy. That is, if a couple doesn't discuss it, monogamy is understood. Monogamy is the default sexual agreement between partners in American society. Someone on the previous page alluded to this as while he is in an open relationship, he feels compelled to tell the women he approaches that he is in one. I infer that he expects them to expect HIM to be monogamous in their potential union.
Not to sound cliche'd but I think it probably depends what you have been exposed to?
In my circle of friends it works out that there was a direct correlation between views on marriage and whether their parent's marriage worked. I was quite reluctant to suggest the pattern on the boards once, but people tended to echo the same experience...? What do others think?
The above post kind of points to learned attitudes, though respect for Nana for breaking the trend.
Well, my grandparents have been faithful to each other in a traditional, monogamous relationship for fifty years.
I'm not trying to sway one way or the other.
I just think that a lot of people end up denying to themselves what they really want because society says it's wrong for you to be anything other than monogamous, and that's where my mentioning of the modern marriage cliche came from.
I called it a cliche because I recognize it for what it is. I don't think monogamy is impossible or silly or even especially hard if that's what both parties really want.
But it seems like a lot of people DON'T want that, but find there's a stigma about open, honest loving relationships involving extramarital sex.
- Soren Kierkegaard
I think part of it is just that relationships, and marriage especially, are hard work. Sometimes, you'll do something retarded, and sometimes, you'll do something really fucking retarded, and break your spouse's trust. But regardless, we both agree that so much work invested in a relationship would go to waste to just toss it aside because of some minor infidelity.
I do think part of her feeling on the subject comes from knowing that her parents cheated on each other a few times, were seperated for 7 years at one point, but ultimately realized throwing away the previous 23 years of their marriage would just be stupid, and got back together. Hell, the few times she's done anything even borderline, she's told me about it (like foolishly thinking she could hang out with her scumbag ex-boyfriend, and that they could just be friends)...so I'm confident that if one of us ever did cheat, we'd work it out.
Pretty much. My wife and I talked for a long time about such things (and still do when it comes up), and concluded that while I'd likely be ok with things being at least a little open, she's not...so that's that. As much as I'd like to, I'm willing to not fuck other women to keep our relationship healthy.
I'm not criticizing you or your philosophy whatsoever. In fact, I think tolerance is usually a better policy than intolerance.
Personally, though, I do not understand how you can sleep with someone else "mistakenly." Unless some form of shapeshifting or cosmetics or something is concerned, there are steps you can take to prevent you from being in a situation where you could be convinced or where you would be willing to sleep with someone that isn't your spouse. This is assuming you do not have an open relationship with your spouse. Frankly, those steps are part of the trust you keep with your partner. I'm not saying that someone should avoid talking to attractive people that they aren't married to or dating or whatever, but if you are unable to be around these people without pursuing or acquiescing to sexual contact with them, and that is a taboo in your relationship, then you really should do as much as possible to avoid situations that encroach on your threshold of willpower. Getting drunk with an ex-wife/ex-husband is, for example, a bad idea and I would not forgive a "mistake" in that situation. I wouldn't, however, try to prevent my wife/girlfriend from hanging around with them. I would just expect her to assess her own willpower and to act in accordance with it, as I do.
It seems to me, though, that you two have some sort of an open relationship even if it's like a "please don't" one. I mean, if you've discussed it with your partner and you've both basically agreed that an act of infidelity would be forgiven...it's really a hazy line between that and the least open of open relationships you can have. I know a promise of forgiveness is not permission or advocacy, but it's not terribly far from it either, in my eyes.
In a way, you're right. We're essentially agreeing that for as long as either of us actually give a shit about each other, and wish to avoiding hurting the other, we'll not fuck around.
And yeah, when I speak of "mistakes", I'm speaking of the mistake of putting yourself in a situation you know is likely to lead somewhere bad. For instance, I know damn well that my judgement is impaired by drinking heavily, so I avoid being in situations where I might drink heavily around attractive women who might not care that I'm married. I suppose it's a bit of a shitty solution, but I know that's what I personally need to do to keep from hurting my wife.
edit: to speak to your example, as I mentioned, my wife has made mistakes (in her eyes, at least) before, but that didn't lead to having sex. She recognized that she had made a mistake, and left her ex's house before anything happened, but still felt it was important to be honest with me. The mistake is in knowingly putting yourself in that situation, imo, because once in a situation of sexual temptation, it's far harder to avoid.
I guess it depends on your self assessment of your willpower and how much you trust that quality in your partner and they trust it in you. I wouldn't mind someone I'm seeing going to her ex's apartment if she's able to restrain herself, for instance. It's only a mistake in my eyes if she isn't capable of it.
Ultimately I think you and I are on the same page, though.