Welcome to the latest edition of the Magic Online thread, a wondrous thread dedicated to those Magic enthusiasts with refined taste, who enjoy a fine draft played in nothing but their socks and a pint of beer at their side. Come in, relax awhile, and feel free to ask any questions you feel pertinent, though I'd recommend you read the FAQ first.
Current Affairs, April 2012
Avacyn Restored spoilers are coming in, cresting over the wall of disappointment, battering us with dreams of Time Walk upon Time Walk.
The New Hotness
A Guide for the New and Returning Player
As it goes with most things, players enter and exit the game with some regularity. Similarly, the game changes with the introduction of every new set and the costs to play are always in flux due to the various economic conditions and overall popularity of the game. So how you gonna stay on top of a thing?
To start:
Rules Primer for New and Returning Players
If, after reading that primer, you feel the urge to make a post complaining about how
Mogg Fanatic is terrible now — don't. No one cares anymore.
Presumably the other thing on your mind, as a new and/or returning player, is "how large my debt grow?" This is understandable and largely why I'm writing this. As a service to you, and the thread, an outline of the fundamental costs associated with the most popular formats on Magic Online:
Limited (Booster Draft / Sealed) - As these formats are wholly dependent on you acquiring unopened product, the cost is nigh indeterminable but can be astronomical for the beginner or bad player. Be very cautious about entering into the game and heading straight to the draft queues. Expenditures of $13 will quickly multiply and you will be broke as fuck.
Standard - Arguably the most popular constructed format, comprised of the two most recent "blocks" + the most recent core set (though there is a brief interval where multiple core sets are legal). As with most constructed formats, Standard has a high cost of entry that is partially exacerbated by the fact that the format rotates frequently and players have to "re-up". This cost can be diminished through quick market decisions and much praying that the core components of your deck are reprinted.
Top Decks:
- U/W Delver - ~300 Tix
- Some other shit - ~300 Tix
Beyond Limited and Standard, you'll find Block Constructed, Extended, Modern, Legacy, Pauper, and Classic. Besides Pauper, which is exclusively commons (albeit some very expensive commons), the other formats all have similar costs to Standard. Also note that Extended is effectively a dead format that has been supplanted by Modern, and Classic is analogous to Vintage except even fewer people play it.
F.A.Q.
Q: Where can I procure this game?
A: Right
here, at the official Wizards site.
Q: This ish is hells of oogly. What gives?
A: At least it runs well!
Q: No, it doesn't.
A: Oh, right, I forgot.
Q: What is there to do in the game?
A: Everything you can do in Paper Magic but taken to the next level. Except, I guess it's more like a sequel where they've fucked up continuity but things are still so awesome that you don't care that they've forgotten to explain how the main character lost his right arm AND changed gender. Currently, you'll have access to about 90% of every card ever printed. Almost everything worthwhile that's Pre-Mirage has been compiled into four Master's Edition sets, alongside a whole lot of jank no one cares about, while everything Mirage - Current is available, though only Standard-legal sets are purchasable from the official store.
All the major formats are played online, with a constant stream of tournaments in all your favorite flavors: Draft, Sealed, Block Constructed, Standard, Extended, Modern, Legacy, and 100 Card Singleton. The multiplayer room is home to 4-6 player games of 2 and 3-Headed Giant, Emperor, Commander/EDH, FFA, and possibly some other niche game types.
Q: Where's Masques block?
A: It arrived! ...but no one is playing it because it sucks.
Q: How much is this going to cost me?
A: After you get sick of the demo, a new account costs 10 dollars. Every new account comes with a set of gold-bordered cards taken from the Duels of the Planeswalkers game, as well as a mish-mash of cards from the most recent core set (M12) and a booster from that same set. It's suggested that you don't "open" the Planeswalker pack, as the cards can't be used outside of a single specific format and they will clutter your collection.
Q: Where are good places to buy singles?
A: I use the classifieds to find a good deal, but ChaosHat recommends
CardHoarder and
MTGO Traders. He claims they are "consistently cheap" and "pretty nice".
Q: How could anyone pay that much for fake cards?
A: Stop trollin', brah.
Q: I don't trust you. Is there an official explanation of all this?
A: Peep dat
WotC site.
Q: How do I join the PA clan?
A: Add me, metaghost, to your buddies list once you sign up. Then, if you see me online, PM me and ask for a clan invite. I'm usually on evenings, EST/EDT.
Q: How come I can't play things at the appropriate time? I'd really appreciate being able to drop a
Qasali Ambusher on dat azz.
A: Check your stops. Go into your Gameplay Settings and you'll see a grid of boxes structured according the various timing steps. If the game isn't letting you cast a spell when you want/should be able to, check the appropriate box. Beware of too many stops though, as it can slow your play to a crawl and result in undeserved losses. As a related aside, to respond to your own spell-casting, primarily for the use of a card like
Twincast, you must hold the CTL key as you cast the initial spell.
Q: When I'm online, how do I link cards in the chat windows like a pro?
A: Just put the card name in curly brackets. Like this: {Terror}
Posts
NEW SET EDIT: I can't wait to lose a draft to that OP 1/4 Vigilance Infect white dude at common.
M12 NEW SET EDIT: Yes! I've always held that green should get card draw to make it more competitive skill pie wise. That new Garruk is delicious.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
>.>
White: 1721-3651-2720
Red got a lot stronger. It has enough at common now to make aggro-burn a reasonable shot. This is mostly due to cards like Chandra's Outrange and Chandra's Spitfire, which are good, but not as splashable. Fling is a nice card to bring back to the archetype as well.
Blue got stronger, as if it needed it, but we need to wait to see what the removal/counterspell options are in blue. Air servant is just ugly good.
I think that it's a great set so far and I think it will play out similar to M10, just with a bit more color balance.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Also, I keep losing to Mind SCulptor with my polymorph deck. I don't want to spend 8 bucks on a progenitus...and my emrakuuls were free. Any ideas? So far, I've TRIED to into the roil, then counter, but it's so fugly.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
I'm pretty sure that's still Kim Jong-Il. Bullies love an easy target after all.
@ Elba - Maybe you should just get used to losing to Mr. 100 Dollar Card? I mean, Progenitus is clearly not the answer as he'll be rotating soon.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
I would try Pithing Needle or Jace1.0.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
also forgot about obscure planeswalker rules. Thanks! (not that I have $ for jace 1.0 either)
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Currently Jace1 is ~5 bucks. He's also extremely likely to be in M11, so if you wait for the announcement, the price will likely drop, or you can pick it up in drafts. As long as polymorph is reprinted, it'll be a stronger archetype after Alara rotates, so it would be worthwhile to get Jace1 at that point. So I'd grab pithing needle now and then wait for more M11 announcements.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
polys chances at reprint are looking a bit down as it can only be reprinted as card #69 atm, so pray that nothing gets spoiled that falls alphabetically between negate and preordain.
good news is that theirs still 3 spots open for a Battle of Wits reprint.
I'd laugh my ass off if I ever got one in limited though. I'd definitely blow a draft trying it in game one of each match and then side boarding into a normal deck.
As for Sun Titan, there's going to be SOMETHING degenerate coming out of that, maybe with Kor Skyfisher. Do cards like Skyfire Medallion actually reduce the CMC, or just what you're required to pay for it?
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
Also, I love the fairies deck (the constructed one), I wish I was playing when that was in Standard.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
meh who cares about paper magic, battle works just great on mtgo. it's one of my fav cards and I know it'll come back in a core set one day.
I'll be switching PCs at home soon. Does anyone happen to know if there's a way to move MTGO or at least most of it so I won't have to start with the fetal client and download goddamn Greenland?
EDIT: Also, great OP meta. Put the returning players link in too!
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Also, I've been flipping MED drafts all week because I want 10/10 old-world duals for my EDH deck and I've somehow opened only three in like, 30 drafts. However!, I've also opened three Force of Will. I'm a bit of what you'd call a lucksack, I guess! I've been trading them off for duals more or less, all that's left is a few randoms across legacy sets and the 5 ME2 duals and then I'll own at least 1 of every single land card on MTGO.
My brother plays Polymorph, and I have to say that I don't think Polymorph is a real threat as a deck unless it's running 4 JTMS maindeck. He really makes the deck for so many reasons:
1. Jace2 is the best card in the format
2. Polymorph is capable of playing Jace2 on turn 3 before other decks because of it's ramp.
3. Whichever side sticks Jace2 first in the Polymorph matchup is almost guaranteed victory.
4. He is great in this deck for his ability to dig as well as draw.
I totally understand people don't want to spend $300 on a playset of Jace, but if that's the case I think you need to find decks where Jace is not played.
If you decide to play Jace1 maindeck and are playing against another Jace deck use his -1 ability twice then just leave him at 1. You are using him as basically "Seal of Jace' to prevent them from playing theirs.
The other option is to play Pithing Needles, but in that case I recommend switching to Iona. Because Iona naming white and Needle naming Jace2 is deathgrip lock against a lot of decks right now.
It actually went fairly well until one of the players rage quit and the interface froze on one of his stops. He was all pissed that I not only destroyed one of his heavy hitters by playing the faerie that kills targets that have been dealt damage, but I also in that turn cast the prowl card that gives you X fairies, where X is the amount of damage you dealt. Oh, and that prowl card gives you an extra turn if you paid the prowl cost, which I did. So on the next turn I swarmed him with a crap load of faeries (~10+ I think).
If I get more positive reactions to my faerie deck (e.g. rage quits), I think I'll break down and get that 9 tix enchant that gives you a 1/1 flying faerie rogue every turn.
I think a lot of the ragequitting is coming from my playing Oona. She has this nice ability that exiles X cards from their library, and gives you a 1/1 flying faerie rogue for each card that is a designated color. People HATE seeing their combo cards exiled .
Plus, there is nothing funnier than someone saying to themselves "I just got beat by a bunch of faeries".
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
in case you need any further evidence about how lucky I am, check out this draft!
ZZW BR Mythic Insanity 8-4 3-0
I start off with an admitted raredraft, and then get passed what is probably the most mystifying pack of Zendikar I've ever seen -- Malakir Bloodwitch is in the pack, there's a foil Baloth Cage Trap, and three other uncommons. i.e., the presence of a foil indicates that there were no foil shenanigans and we know for a fact this person took a common over Malakir Bloodwitch in a pack where the only other black was Surrakar ... almost guaranteeing that taking Witch would cut your opponent out of black (I would take Slinger out of the remaining cards, Surrakar wouldn't be worth fighting for black over).
My only idea is that, yeah, black is overdrafted in ZZW and they didn't want to compete whatsoever. But ... Malakir is a 4/4 flyer, pro-white when white is the most relevant aggro opponent in ZZW and it even has a relevant life gain/life loss ability tacked on. It's a fucking bomb! And, I mean, not that it should matter in 8-4, but she's a ticket+ resell, which is a lot for a non-land rare these days.
What the fuck did this person take over Malakir Bloodwitch? What commons would you take over her, if any, P1P1?
EDIT: Oh, to sum up the raredrafting for the impatient -- Warren Instigator (P1P1), Malakir Bloodwitch (P1P2), Ob Nixilis the Fallen (P2P1), Lodestone Golem (P3P1), Comet Storm (P3P2), Omnath Locus of Mana (P3P3, this was over a Tomb Hex, the most egregious of my raredrafts since it was a given I wouldn't be playing it but I wanted one for EDH)
A ha ha. P2P1! I love your drafts, Best America.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
I've opened packs with a Geopede + Spire, expected only the Spire to table, yet seen both come back on P1P9
it's completely ridiculous, but I think it's due in large part to people taking Burst or Geopede very highly and often getting burned by poor pack composition and switching to deeper colors and leaving the Burst or Geo in the board unplayed
EDIT What I meant is, you don't need to force Red because you can start in a stronger color and switch into monored from like P1P6 onwards with no issues because no one is taking any red at all
This is something LSV talked about in his last draft. Apparently MTGO "used to" have the packs mimic print runs, i.e. the way real life cards are cut out of sheets and distributed into packs, but now they dont. Used to is in quotes b/c I don't know when the change started. Now the packs are digitally generated, so it's absolutely possible for poor pack composition to shut down a color.
Apparently the change was b/c now they print redeemable sets (one of each card printed) for MTGO-->paper conversion, as opposed to only print-run sets (100s of commons per mythic rare printed).
It's a decent change for casual players, as there is less hidden information that you're missing, but you can get color screwed.
Edit: Also, I'm probably going to play some Master's Edition drafts, but haven't found any real writeups on it. Anyone know what the strategy is, other than raredraft/quit?
Double Edit: Best America, you keeping those Cobras, or can I interest you in a trade?
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
ZZW Monored 8-4 2-1
ZZW UW Weenie (has a Day of Judgment that saved my ass in round 2)
My draft folder is otherwise clogged with MED crap, but I doubt anyone cares about those because ugh it's such a boring format! If you do care, though, I think the strongest cards for ME1 are Mountain Yeti/Phantom Monster (get late Word of Undoing, Sea Sprite, Bestial Fury on the turn) or Ghazban Ogres / ME2 is Orcish Veteran (the 2/2 powerstriker for R), Leaping Lizard, Death Spark, and hate-drafting all banders (especially Phalanx) / ME3 is the tricks (Growth, Remove Soul) and enough vanilla fat with 3 or more power/toughness that you're playing at least 15 (ideally 16 or 17 unless you're blue with Brainstorms) creatures that are actually combat-relevant. I think that XR is the best archetype, generally UR or GR because those are the ones that lend themselves best to actually ending the game.
Oh, and you always take Meteor Shower. It doesn't matter if you have no capacity to even splash for it, you always take it, unless you're an extremely confident UG player. I'd still usually take it, though. Death Spark you can sometimes pass and not eat shit for doing so. That one actually has context. Anyway, back to ZZW.
I think the strongest archetypes in ZZW are monowhite and UW weenie. I think that the second-strongest archetypes are monoblack, monored, and XU bounce-aggro. BW aggro occupies a kind of limbo space as far as I'm concerned in that the best B and the best W cards are both going to be color-dependent and I don't like to put myself in a position where I'm playing an aggro deck with 2 and 3-drops that have opposing double-colored costs. It's bad business.
Zendikons go late versus how good they are, same for Skitter of Lizards. Take Feast of Blood higher if you expect to go into any black because Ruthless Cullblades will go late and you're going to get more Vampires than you would in straight ZZZ. Bounce is better than ever, but somehow still goes way later than it should. Umara Raptor is a red herring and I would take Welkin Tern over it 100% of the time because you can play t1 Zendikon, t2 Welkin, swing for 4 on turn 3 henceforth while Raptor gums up your mana at a time when you want to untap and be able to swing with unkicked Roil mana open. On the subject of Roil, yes, take it over Whiplash because Whiplash will table on the basis no one wants to hem themselves into blue in pack 1 and rarely even at the start of pack 2.
I don't consider Allies a viable archetype but I've played against it (and lost a few times, sure) in the finals so I guess it's working for some people. My strategy with ZZW has always been, though, to pretend that the Worldwake pack isn't involved and that the game is still moving at ZZZ's breakneck pace. Almost uniformly, with the exception of three out of five Zendikons basically and no other cards, the more Worldwake you play the slower your deck will go. You want Kitesail because it gives you inevitability and lets you trade off plentiful groundpounders against limited flyers, but Hammer of Ruin is a 23rd card that you should only play when you don't have Kitesail and usually not in complement to a Machete.
I would rather have a deck with 21 creatures/Zendikons and two tricks that aren't even straight removal (+3/+0 First Strike) than I would have a deck with a bunch of equipment and removal but only 13 dudes that can hold their own against a 2/3 common. Zendikar has always been a format about reliability; you want the deck that most punishes slow and staggered starts, and is itself the least prone to those slow starts. White has a ton of 2/X chumps that go late and, although a lot of new X/3s make them worse than they once were, they are still solid dudes that combine great with turn 3 slipped Machetes or Kitesail on the roll.
Pilgrim's Eye is overrated, also, and just generally I will value a worse creature higher than a better removal spell because it really is a format where nothing matters more than playing or removing a single creature every turn. However, this game of 1:1 starts the moment someone plays a creature, and that means Tomb Hex versus Welkin Tern means you are already almost irrecovably a turn behind in tempo -- and tempo matters more than parity in ZZW. I wouldn't go so far as to say take Disfigure over Hideous End, but remember that Disfigure cripples B/W/U aggro openers while Hideous End becomes a dead card against the omnipresent black weenies that will wreck your shit six ways to Sunday if you don't see them coming and built a mid-range deck with Tomb Hexes and Hideous Ends as removal.
Sometimes, I do take Disfigure over Hideous End, and not just because of color requirements. I think that's a pretty good summary of the format.
And I don't know if they've done the ME1 - ME2 - ME3 drafts before, so maybe just bug Best to post some walkthroughs on how to make Force of Will appear.
White is a really bad color with the exception of Farrel's Zealot, Farrel's Mantle, Armored Griffin, and the cards that enable Farrel's XYZ. There's a fair amount of synergy between the cards, but Banding is the only way that you actually manage parity against the more singularly-powerful cards of other colors and it puts you in a position where gang-blocking is your modus operandi and you're constantly left open for crippling, timely removal. If you find yourself in white, you need to take Zealot, Mantle, Griffin, and Icatian Phalanx immediately -- literally everything else will table, even the no-exceptions removal, except maybe Swords (will be gone by pick 4) and Exile (will be gone by 6, though it will table from time to time). Aysen Bureaucrats is a solid card, but you'll get them late. You need them, too! Combat Medic will go late, this is also a critical card if you're deep white. Expect to occasionally win on time/decking off the back of a Medic if you go deep white. That's one of your key strategies!
Blue is a really strong color because games go so long that a Sea Sprite (1/1 Flyer) or any combination of others, or rarely a 2/X or 3/X one, will go the whole damn distance on their lonesome untrammeled. Sea Sprite is also a critical blocker, and prevents your opponent from sweeping with Shower/Panic and winning on the all-in. Aside from those flyers (and Horsemanship at all rarities in ME3), you have access to more common bounce than you can actually reasonably fit in a deck. Try to pick this up late -- Word of Undoing in P1 will go 10+, as will Boomerang in P3 (P3 has great blue creatures, and players typically already have enough bounce, so you can almost rely on getting Boomerangs to round your deck out if you need to). Play blue bounce as a complement to aggressive creatures in other colors -- Erg Raiders in black, Ogres in green, Orcs in red, and just keep up the pressure. Solutions for creatures with more than 2 power are typically all-in solutions, which means all it takes is a single mana and a single bounce spell to unravel them and keep up the pressure.
I don't think black is playable. Sometimes I lose to it, but that's because they get Dark Banishing and Ghostly Visits (Dark Banishing functional reprint) that I never see myself. Whatever, fuck those people. Tor Wauki is a legendary bomb uncommon for 3BBR in ME3, and Fevered Strength is a staple you can get 14th pick to round out your deck if you find yourself playing or splashing black. You are going to have issues finding creatures and relevant cards in general if you're deep black, despite the fact no one else will be drafting anything except the burial. It's not a good color here.
Red and green are the same as they are in more traditional formats, with the caveat that red now not only has the best burn, but it's many of the best burn spells ever printed alongside creatures far above the power/toughness curve as far as Master's Edition is concerned, across rarities, in all three packs. Red is bottomless and take all of it you can get. An MED table can support 5 red drafters, no problem. Green is slightly less deep, and more built around key cards (Ghazban Ogre, Leaping Lizard, Leaping Lizard, Leaping Lizard).
Work from the perspective of coherency instead of individual card power, with the exception of build-around-me rares and the few commons/uncommons so powerful that it's worth shifting your entire deck and colors to accommodate them (Meteor Shower, Farrel's Mantle, Phantom Monster). In the early picks of P1, consider safe picks like Onulet and Dragon Engine over anything that may commit you to a color because signaling is impossible in ME1 and ME2 + it's simply not possible to commit to a color that early when the cards are so individually weak and packs vary so much in strength.
I always thought the bigger issue was in draft, when I'd watch a video and the pro drafter would say "oh, obviously a burst lightning is gone from this pack, so I know he's in red"
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
A print run of X copies of each card is created and pooled. A print run of Y packs is generated and stocked to the store, with each pack ID being tied to card IDs randomly. There is no longer any collation in packs -- originally, there was a rare print run you could easily observe by opening a sealed pack, but which otherwise remained consistent between "open pack" requests being sent to the single server by disparate clients. This old method was a simple front-to-back progression that ensured cards were printed in equal amounts by following a one-to-one progression.
With the pool method, equivalency is only handled at the pool generation which only happens every few weeks. X Emrakul, the Aeons Torn are generated at that time and packs will randomly pull them out at any given time between pools. All of the Emrakul could, theoretically, be gone on the first day. Theoretically, there could be two Emrakul left as the last two Rare/Mythics and you could open both back-to-back. I think that they overstock the pools, though, because it's been a long time since we've had the store sell out of anything and so that "you get two Emrakul because there's nothing else left" situation shouldn't arise any more.
In order to prevent reruns at the common level in packs, they follow a triple-print series similar (but different) to what was implemented with M10 in paper (prior to M10, the common run of a booster pack was two front-to-back collated stacks; now it's three). The difference is that these prints are only relatively unique -- i.e., related to each other -- and are themselves not internally consistent. Paper print runs, commons appear either zero, one, or two times [the wheel] in a collation and the collations are cued in such a way that you cannot have two of the same non-foil common in a pack, even if that non-foil common appears in multiple collations.
To put it in the simplest terms, the paper collations are static due to technological limitations while the online collations follow the same model but are able to determine their contents dynamically, pack-to-pack, because there are no similar technological limitations. For non-sequential events like rares, this simply means nothing beyond luck is stopping you from opening three Vengevine in a row in a Rise draft. (And yes, I have personally opened duplicate back-to-back nonfoil Mythics, so I can confirm this possibility myself). For sequential events like uncommons and commons, the fact MTGO only cares about relative consistency instead of internal consistency and it only cares about the pack it's currently generating means that you can get packs where your 11 commons are all black, red, and white ... though none of them will be duplicates of one another!
In paper, they've designed the static collations in such a way that prevents this. It's anyone's guess why they didn't add that additional level of consistency to online, but the fact they could but they didn't suggests that they like things the way they are, being even more random than paper.
This is entirely anecdotal, but the illusion of a randomized print run is completely dismissed after doing some ROE Sealed, where closely related pools appear with some frequency. In draft, I think that the ZZW and ROE print runs are hidden by the sheer quantity of lands in ZZW (which lead to people taking off-color jank) and strange color-density and skill-challenges in ROE.
EDIT - Apparently Best is really into this sort of thing and knows better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjP-03lMNSA
White: 1721-3651-2720
I really hate this video. And this man in the video.
But yeah, it's been posted before.
And this is the main reason they've been working to change the way they fill both packs and boxes.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
I don't hate this guy. I'm glad this stuff was made public. I want WoTC to take care of it, not for it to be an underground secret.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
"Yo there, Magic nerds, church is now in session..."
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.