It's just like how I was annoyed by The Last Airbender white washing the cast.
Why is it "political correctness" to cast a non-white actor in a role that's (actually or generally perceived as) white, but just mildly annoying to do it the other way around?
Because if you call political correctness on taking things from non-white people to give them to white people, you're a racist.
Personally, I can understand why they would make one of the Aesir black, political correct and all that jazz, even if I disagree with the decision.
That said, what does irk me is which Aesir specifically they decided to cast with a black actor. Really, don't you think they could have chosen a different Aesir? One that isn't the "Whitest" of the Aesir? Sure white is likely meant in a metaphorical sense, but even so.
I think they would have done better to cast perhaps Vidar or Njord with a black actor than Heimdall.
Course, if you really get down to it, I get rather annoyed at race changes in movies, be it making a black character white or vice versa. Just to me it seems like disrespecting the source material. It's just like how I was annoyed by The Last Airbender white washing the cast. Like I said, to me it just gives the impression of disrespect to the source material.
Why?
If the character's race has nothing to do with what is essential to this fictional character or his background, then who gives a fuck?
I mean, Superman. If Superman was black, what difference would it make for the character? Do Kryptonians have to look caucasian?
Spider-Man. Are there no Black people in Queens?
Does it really matter if this crazy space alien demigod shapeshifter looks black? How is any of this integral to the character?
I mean, it's not like it erases the original comics where this character appears. It's just a different intepretation. It's not canon or anything if you want to be strickler about it. The point of an adaptation is not to copy the source material from page to page, otherwise there is no point in making the adaptation in the first place. Why is race more important then the hundreds of other things any adaptation changes?
I liked the Asgardians better when they were gods, not aliens. But seeing the level of shit Harry Potter got from the fundies in this country, I can see how that's not commercially viable for Marvel.
I just take the Earth X view of the entire universe, correcting for progress when necessary.
Personally, I can understand why they would make one of the Aesir black, political correct and all that jazz, even if I disagree with the decision.
That said, what does irk me is which Aesir specifically they decided to cast with a black actor. Really, don't you think they could have chosen a different Aesir? One that isn't the "Whitest" of the Aesir? Sure white is likely meant in a metaphorical sense, but even so.
I think they would have done better to cast perhaps Vidar or Njord with a black actor than Heimdall.
Course, if you really get down to it, I get rather annoyed at race changes in movies, be it making a black character white or vice versa. Just to me it seems like disrespecting the source material. It's just like how I was annoyed by The Last Airbender white washing the cast. Like I said, to me it just gives the impression of disrespect to the source material.
Why?
If the character's race has nothing to do with what is essential to this fictional character or his background, then who gives a fuck?
I mean, Superman. If Superman was black, what difference would it make for the character? Do Kryptonians have to look caucasian?
Spider-Man. Are there no Black people in Queens?
Does it really matter if this crazy space alien demigod shapeshifter looks black? How is any of this integral to the character?
I mean, it's not like it erases the original comics where this character appears. It's just a different intepretation. It's not canon or anything if you want to be strickler about it. The point of an adaptation is not to copy the source material from page to page, otherwise there is no point in making the adaptation in the first place. Why is race more important then the hundreds of other things any adaptation changes?
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
The first thing I thought when I saw this story was "well, now we know which one of the Norse gods is going to get offed at a dramatic point in the story."
How much "sense" the casting will make ultimately depends on how the film treats marvel's "norse" gods. If it spends a little bit of time explaining marvel's version of the canon it seems a lot more reasonable and might even be the subject of some dark humor (badumpcrash.) If they just rely on the public's vague knowledge that hey, the vikings did have some burly-lookin' deities and these are them, it's going to be a little awkward.
edit: but I generally agree with the point that, this character's race being incidental to the story, who cares what race the actor is? Maybe dude just nailed the part and they said 'fuck it, get him.'
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
If the character's race has nothing to do with what is essential to this fictional character or his background, then who gives a fuck?
...if Superman was black...
...Spider-Man...
A large percentage of your viewing audience, whom you depend on to get a return on your investment for filming the movie. Just sayin'
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
I don't know, were the races integral to either characters? I'm assuming that the Prince of Persia happens in...Persia. If he is a Prince of the Kingdom of Persia, yeah, that seems pretty important part of the character and he should be Persian if he is presented as such. Does Avatar happen in China?
Hey, do you mind Aladdin being Middle Eastern? Because he was actually Chinese. How did that affect your enjoyment of the classic Disney movie?
If it happens in some mythical universe with no relation to Earth's nationalities or countries, why the fuck not? If the race or nationality has nothing to do with the character's basic concepts, again, who gives a shit? I wouldn't say I support it, like I actively want people to change it just because, but I don't care either way.
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
He's not blonde (brunette for most of the time when the colorist feels like giving a fuck), he doesn't really have a defined eye color or even eyes as we consider them to be, and I don't know what the fuck you can call him right now but he sure as fuck isn't Norwegian or Homo Sapiens, so you are actually wrong there.
If the character's race has nothing to do with what is essential to this fictional character or his background, then who gives a fuck?
...if Superman was black...
...Spider-Man...
A large percentage of your viewing audience, whom you depend on to get a return on your investment for filming the movie. Just sayin'
Well that's their problem. I'm posting my own viewpoint.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I liked the Asgardians better when they were gods, not aliens. But seeing the level of shit Harry Potter got from the fundies in this country, I can see how that's not commercially viable for Marvel.
Marvel's "gods" have been consistently explained as aliens (either of the space or the extra-dimensional sort) since at least the late sixties if not before. The only actual divine beings in the Marvel U are the ones they created themselves, like Galactus, the Beyonder, Eternity and the In-Betweener.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
HamHamJ on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited December 2010
Basically, here is what it boils down to:
1) one is "concerned" about the departure from the actual Norse myths, at which point one should probably either get over it and embrace the wild and wooly 50-year-old Marvel approach to world myth or just walk away.
2) one is "concerned" about the departure from Marvel continuity, in which case it seems that one's actual knowledge of Marvel continuity needs updating (they're not human and they don't really look human to begin with!) and that, again, one would live a longer and happier life if one simply accepted that sometimes movies change stuff like the melanin content of minor supporting characters
or 3) one is a for-real racist!
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
I just hope there are congressional hearings on this disturbing trend.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character?
Just so I understand.
ok look at it this way. Is the race extremely significant to the character? What if they made william wallace a black dude in braveheart? The fact that he is scottish and thus probably white is pretty important in that movie.
Now take that movie they made about the MIT students who developed the system to cheat vegas. My understanding is that most of the students were asian in real life. Now if they made the group say half and half in the movie I would understand, frankly it would broaden the appeal. However I also understand that movie made the remaining asian characters standard issue wacky stereotypical asians. Now there's a problem.
Felix in the new james bond movies is black. samuel l jackson in the avengers is black. some of this is the simple recoginition that these intellectual properties are very old and are from a time when black people were either cartoonish villians or servants. If you kept it super faithful then it would be mainly white people. Instead the director is trying to inject some diversity into characters whose race is not extremely important.
heimdall would be a bigger issue if they got flav o flav to play him. instead they have a respected actor doing so. I don't see the issue.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character?
Just so I understand.
ok look at it this way. Is the race extremely significant to the character? What if they made william wallace a black dude in braveheart? The fact that he is scottish and thus probably white is pretty important in that movie.
Now take that movie they made about the MIT students who developed the system to cheat vegas. My understanding is that most of the students were asian in real life. Now if they made the group say half and half in the movie I would understand, frankly it would broaden the appeal. However I also understand that movie made the remaining asian characters standard issue wacky stereotypical asians. Now there's a problem.
Felix in the new james bond movies is black. samuel l jackson in the avengers is black. some of this is the simple recoginition that these intellectual properties are very old and are from a time when black people were either cartoonish villians or servants. If you kept it super faithful then it would be mainly white people. Instead the director is trying to inject some diversity into characters whose race is not extremely important.
heimdall would be a bigger issue if they got flav o flav to play him. instead they have a respected actor doing so. I don't see the issue.
Actually, Nick Fury in the Ultimates universe is black. And specifically patterned after Jackson, as I recall.
sorry, I'm embarassed to say my knowledge of marvel is mostly from cartoon shows, which had white nick fury.
That's definitely forgivable. :P
Oldschool, 616 Fury is white. And old. Served with Cap in the war, in fact. Was once played by David Hasslehoff.
The Ultimates version is modeled directly from Samuel L. Jackson.
This new batch of Marvel movies (Iron Man, Thor, probably the Xmen stuff but I'm not sure) are supposed to be set in the Ultimates universe, or some facsimile thereof.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
It's just like how I was annoyed by The Last Airbender white washing the cast.
Why is it "political correctness" to cast a non-white actor in a role that's (actually or generally perceived as) white, but just mildly annoying to do it the other way around?
Because if you call political correctness on taking things from non-white people to give them to white people, you're a racist.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
It's just like how I was annoyed by The Last Airbender white washing the cast.
Why is it "political correctness" to cast a non-white actor in a role that's (actually or generally perceived as) white, but just mildly annoying to do it the other way around?
Because if you call political correctness on taking things from non-white people to give them to white people, you're a racist.
Try as I might, I can't figure out the point you are trying to make here.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It's just like how I was annoyed by The Last Airbender white washing the cast.
Why is it "political correctness" to cast a non-white actor in a role that's (actually or generally perceived as) white, but just mildly annoying to do it the other way around?
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it was mildly annoying that they whitewashed the cast of The Last Airbender, I said it was annoying, so annoying in fact that I refused to go see the movie.
from what i remember of thor, heimdall was not a major character. regardless of that, i approve of the general trend to have more of a diverse "default" casting when character race isn't important. i mean, for ages and ages and ages when race wasn't specified in a work, it was assumed that everyone was white. it's only (relatively) recently that casting has started to reflect more diversity, even when it's not expressly called for by the work.
curly haired boy on
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
you grow up with certain iconic images. Batman, Superman, Spiderman, they are all white. Is it vital to the character that they BE white? No, not really. But for recognizability and maintaining a "brand" it sort of is.
Which is one of the main driving forces of modern white privilege.
Nonsense. In this context, you have characters that were created with a particular ethnicity and look and they're now an identifiable brand. That brand can make money for the owners of the intellectual property. Anyone who wants to mess with that brand has a burden on them to show how changing the brand is an improvement over the status quo.
Putting the race issue aside, do you think Marvel would agree to a fundamental change in the way the Iron Man armor looks? Shit, do you remember how pissed off people got when they put nipples on the Batsuit in Batman and Robin?
If Marvel had felt that casting a black guy as Heimdall would have hurt their brand, it wouldn't have happened.
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from what i remember of thor, heimdall was not a major character. regardless of that, i approve of the general trend to have more of a diverse "default" casting when character race isn't important. i mean, for ages and ages and ages when race wasn't specified in a work, it was assumed that everyone was white. it's only (relatively) recently that casting has started to reflect more diversity, even when it's not expressly called for by the work.
Heimdall has come up in the world a little bit. He even inherited the Odinpower for a bit at one point.
This new batch of Marvel movies (Iron Man, Thor, probably the Xmen stuff but I'm not sure) are supposed to be set in the Ultimates universe, or some facsimile thereof.
They're borrowing quite a bit from the Ultimate universe, but it's still mainly 616 at heart. Tony Stark's entire body isn't made of brain cells, Thor isn't a hippie commune leader and the Hulk doesn't threaten to rape Betty.
Samuel Jackson would totally have grounds to sue for the appropriation of his likeness if he felt like it. I mean god damn: look at him.
IIRC, the writers knew that Marvel had a long-term plan to make a bunch of movies sort of based on the Ultimates universe. And they wanted Sam Jackson to be in those movies, so they made Nick Fury look like him.
Given the fact that decision will probably keep Jackson employed for the better part of this decade, I doubt he's too pissed off.
Modern Man on
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So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
So making a nonwhite cast white is wrong and bad.
But making a white cast non-white is okay?
Again, just so I fully understand... and not saying thats whats happened here in Thor, I'm more interested in this topic in a general sense.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Samuel Jackson would totally have grounds to sue for the appropriation of his likeness if he felt like it. I mean god damn: look at him.
IIRC, the writers knew that Marvel had a long-term plan to make a bunch of movies sort of based on the Ultimates universe. And they wanted Sam Jackson to be in those movies, so they made Nick Fury look like him.
Given the fact that decision will probably keep Jackson employed for the better part of this decade, I doubt he's too pissed off.
Oh for sure. It's just hilarious how blatant it is.
Samuel Jackson would totally have grounds to sue for the appropriation of his likeness if he felt like it. I mean god damn: look at him.
IIRC, the writers knew that Marvel had a long-term plan to make a bunch of movies sort of based on the Ultimates universe. And they wanted Sam Jackson to be in those movies, so they made Nick Fury look like him.
Given the fact that decision will probably keep Jackson employed for the better part of this decade, I doubt he's too pissed off.
Oh for sure. It's just hilarious how blatant it is.
I'm fairly sure they actually got his permission to do it in the first place, long before the movies happened.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
So making a nonwhite cast white is wrong and bad.
But making a white cast non-white is okay?
Again, just so I fully understand... and not saying thats whats happened here in Thor, I'm more interested in this topic in a general sense.
I think what most people are saying is that if the racial makeup of the character isn't important then you can change the race of the character. If it is important, then don't do it because that'd be wrong.
This new batch of Marvel movies (Iron Man, Thor, probably the Xmen stuff but I'm not sure) are supposed to be set in the Ultimates universe, or some facsimile thereof.
They're borrowing quite a bit from the Ultimate universe, but it's still mainly 616 at heart. Tony Stark's entire body isn't made of brain cells, Thor isn't a hippie commune leader and the Hulk doesn't threaten to rape Betty.
I haven't been following the development on the Avengers movie, so I can't really speak to that.
I think the movies' universe is a bit of an amalgam of the two, but it does take a lot of superficial style cues from the Ultimate universe because that's the brand they get new readers in on. That's how I got my wife into Xmen, after all.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
So making a nonwhite cast white is wrong and bad.
But making a white cast non-white is okay?
Yes.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
This new batch of Marvel movies (Iron Man, Thor, probably the Xmen stuff but I'm not sure) are supposed to be set in the Ultimates universe, or some facsimile thereof.
They're borrowing quite a bit from the Ultimate universe, but it's still mainly 616 at heart. Tony Stark's entire body isn't made of brain cells, Thor isn't a hippie commune leader and the Hulk doesn't threaten to rape Betty.
I haven't been following the development on the Avengers movie, so I can't really speak to that.
I think the movies' universe is a bit of an amalgam of the two, but it does take a lot of superficial style cues from the Ultimate universe because that's the brand they get new readers in on. That's how I got my wife into Xmen, after all.
The movie universe is definitely an amalgam. They're going with the theme that the rise of superheroes is a fairly recent thing and they're trying to keep their origin stories somewhat realistic (from the Ultimates universe). On the other hand, the Hulk is mostly just misunderstood (and not a homicidal rapist), Captain America will probably not be a racist stuck in the past, and Thor isn't a weirdo hippy (all from 616). And the Avengers won't be a bunch of sociopaths, and if they ever put Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch in any of the movies, I doubt they'll be fucking.
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The white washing in the Last Airbender was a sign that the makers of that movie didn't care about the source material. Well, that combined with coincidentally casting a bunch of dark skinned people as evil while pretty much all the good guys were white.
The Thor movie, like the Thor comics, never cared much about the actual mythology outside of some names and making it look kind of like popular conceptions of the mythology.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
So making a nonwhite cast white is wrong and bad.
But making a white cast non-white is okay?
Again, just so I fully understand... and not saying thats whats happened here in Thor, I'm more interested in this topic in a general sense.
I think what most people are saying is that if the racial makeup of the character isn't important then you can change the race of the character. If it is important, then don't do it because that'd be wrong.
That position as you describe it is pretty reasonable.
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Because if you call political correctness on taking things from non-white people to give them to white people, you're a racist.
Why?
If the character's race has nothing to do with what is essential to this fictional character or his background, then who gives a fuck?
I mean, Superman. If Superman was black, what difference would it make for the character? Do Kryptonians have to look caucasian?
Spider-Man. Are there no Black people in Queens?
Does it really matter if this crazy space alien demigod shapeshifter looks black? How is any of this integral to the character?
I mean, it's not like it erases the original comics where this character appears. It's just a different intepretation. It's not canon or anything if you want to be strickler about it. The point of an adaptation is not to copy the source material from page to page, otherwise there is no point in making the adaptation in the first place. Why is race more important then the hundreds of other things any adaptation changes?
Makes everything far more cohesive.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
So you supported making all the Chinese(I'm assuming didn't watch it) Airbenders white kids? And the Prince of Persia a Swedish-Jewish American was alright?
And as much as people are trying to separate the Norse Mythos Vs Marvel sourced IP...he's still a blonde haired blue eyed Norseman in both.
How much "sense" the casting will make ultimately depends on how the film treats marvel's "norse" gods. If it spends a little bit of time explaining marvel's version of the canon it seems a lot more reasonable and might even be the subject of some dark humor (badumpcrash.) If they just rely on the public's vague knowledge that hey, the vikings did have some burly-lookin' deities and these are them, it's going to be a little awkward.
edit: but I generally agree with the point that, this character's race being incidental to the story, who cares what race the actor is? Maybe dude just nailed the part and they said 'fuck it, get him.'
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
A large percentage of your viewing audience, whom you depend on to get a return on your investment for filming the movie. Just sayin'
Current Marvel Universe Heimdall (the blue is an effect due to him using his future vision):
Current Heimdall from the all ages lineup:
Last appearance of Ultimate Heimdall from the Ultimate Universe. Dead in a flashback but may show up again in the future.
AFAIK, these are the only current Heimdalls in any Marvel comics.
I don't know, were the races integral to either characters? I'm assuming that the Prince of Persia happens in...Persia. If he is a Prince of the Kingdom of Persia, yeah, that seems pretty important part of the character and he should be Persian if he is presented as such. Does Avatar happen in China?
Hey, do you mind Aladdin being Middle Eastern? Because he was actually Chinese. How did that affect your enjoyment of the classic Disney movie?
If it happens in some mythical universe with no relation to Earth's nationalities or countries, why the fuck not? If the race or nationality has nothing to do with the character's basic concepts, again, who gives a shit? I wouldn't say I support it, like I actively want people to change it just because, but I don't care either way.
He's not blonde (brunette for most of the time when the colorist feels like giving a fuck), he doesn't really have a defined eye color or even eyes as we consider them to be, and I don't know what the fuck you can call him right now but he sure as fuck isn't Norwegian or Homo Sapiens, so you are actually wrong there.
Well that's their problem. I'm posting my own viewpoint.
Marvel's "gods" have been consistently explained as aliens (either of the space or the extra-dimensional sort) since at least the late sixties if not before. The only actual divine beings in the Marvel U are the ones they created themselves, like Galactus, the Beyonder, Eternity and the In-Betweener.
You're drawing a false equivalency between white-washing and this.
1) one is "concerned" about the departure from the actual Norse myths, at which point one should probably either get over it and embrace the wild and wooly 50-year-old Marvel approach to world myth or just walk away.
2) one is "concerned" about the departure from Marvel continuity, in which case it seems that one's actual knowledge of Marvel continuity needs updating (they're not human and they don't really look human to begin with!) and that, again, one would live a longer and happier life if one simply accepted that sometimes movies change stuff like the melanin content of minor supporting characters
or 3) one is a for-real racist!
So you're saying its okay when it happens with one character, but not more than one character? So what happened with Prince of Persia was okay?
Just so I understand. I no longer care about this specific instance because the marvel-thor story sounds pretty dumb, but its an interesting topic.
ok look at it this way. Is the race extremely significant to the character? What if they made william wallace a black dude in braveheart? The fact that he is scottish and thus probably white is pretty important in that movie.
Now take that movie they made about the MIT students who developed the system to cheat vegas. My understanding is that most of the students were asian in real life. Now if they made the group say half and half in the movie I would understand, frankly it would broaden the appeal. However I also understand that movie made the remaining asian characters standard issue wacky stereotypical asians. Now there's a problem.
Felix in the new james bond movies is black. samuel l jackson in the avengers is black. some of this is the simple recoginition that these intellectual properties are very old and are from a time when black people were either cartoonish villians or servants. If you kept it super faithful then it would be mainly white people. Instead the director is trying to inject some diversity into characters whose race is not extremely important.
heimdall would be a bigger issue if they got flav o flav to play him. instead they have a respected actor doing so. I don't see the issue.
No I'm saying that changing a cast of non-white characters white has completely different implications than changing a white character (or two) non-white.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Oldschool, 616 Fury is white. And old. Served with Cap in the war, in fact. Was once played by David Hasslehoff.
The Ultimates version is modeled directly from Samuel L. Jackson.
This new batch of Marvel movies (Iron Man, Thor, probably the Xmen stuff but I'm not sure) are supposed to be set in the Ultimates universe, or some facsimile thereof.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
This complaint about Prince of Persia always makes my head hurt.
Guess why.
Try as I might, I can't figure out the point you are trying to make here.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it was mildly annoying that they whitewashed the cast of The Last Airbender, I said it was annoying, so annoying in fact that I refused to go see the movie.
from what i remember of thor, heimdall was not a major character. regardless of that, i approve of the general trend to have more of a diverse "default" casting when character race isn't important. i mean, for ages and ages and ages when race wasn't specified in a work, it was assumed that everyone was white. it's only (relatively) recently that casting has started to reflect more diversity, even when it's not expressly called for by the work.
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Putting the race issue aside, do you think Marvel would agree to a fundamental change in the way the Iron Man armor looks? Shit, do you remember how pissed off people got when they put nipples on the Batsuit in Batman and Robin?
If Marvel had felt that casting a black guy as Heimdall would have hurt their brand, it wouldn't have happened.
Rigorous Scholarship
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Samuel Jackson would totally have grounds to sue for the appropriation of his likeness if he felt like it. I mean god damn: look at him.
They're borrowing quite a bit from the Ultimate universe, but it's still mainly 616 at heart. Tony Stark's entire body isn't made of brain cells, Thor isn't a hippie commune leader and the Hulk doesn't threaten to rape Betty.
Given the fact that decision will probably keep Jackson employed for the better part of this decade, I doubt he's too pissed off.
Rigorous Scholarship
So making a nonwhite cast white is wrong and bad.
But making a white cast non-white is okay?
Again, just so I fully understand... and not saying thats whats happened here in Thor, I'm more interested in this topic in a general sense.
Oh for sure. It's just hilarious how blatant it is.
I'm fairly sure they actually got his permission to do it in the first place, long before the movies happened.
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I think what most people are saying is that if the racial makeup of the character isn't important then you can change the race of the character. If it is important, then don't do it because that'd be wrong.
I think the movies' universe is a bit of an amalgam of the two, but it does take a lot of superficial style cues from the Ultimate universe because that's the brand they get new readers in on. That's how I got my wife into Xmen, after all.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Yes.
Rigorous Scholarship
The Thor movie, like the Thor comics, never cared much about the actual mythology outside of some names and making it look kind of like popular conceptions of the mythology.
That position as you describe it is pretty reasonable.
... this one not so much.
this is a pretty dumb position
there are valid reasons for reimaginings and recastings in either direction
What's dumb is ignoring the broader cultural context.