I like that at least there was some motivation to earn money. You're a dirt-poor foreigner trying to survive in a crapsack city. Suddenly you are given a chance to make it in this world, but you need capital. Side-quest time!
Although it would have been smarter of Hawke to either rob, steal or invest his money. But that would probably not be as fun.
I really think it was a mistake to make the whole first act of the game just a big sidequest-a-thon. I feel no real motivation so far. Basically I'm required to have a character who's main goal is to get rich, I guess. The plot so far has given me no other hook...no sense of urgency, no goal to really care about. It feels really weak to basically just say "well, uh, your character is gonna go treasure hunting. Go spend the next dozen hours doing a bunch of sidequests to raise money". Meanwhile, in the first game, in the same amount of time I had been set up with an end goal, introduced to multiple main antagonists, and been given something to care about working towards.
I really hope that once this expedition thing gets going, I'm given more of a plot.
See, the thing is, DA2 isn't about epic in the traditional sense. You're not saving the world or fighting old gods or whatever. You're a common bloke who tries to make a sweet life for himself and gets dragged into shit. Most of your concerns are everyday and material. Things do ramp up (and very soon, in your case) but that's what makes the DA2 storyline a kind of weird magic: you aren't a hero until you damn well decide to be. You deal with monsters as much as you deal with family tragedies and your personal life. You're as concerned about your companions and your home as you are about glory and fame. There's no magic sword with a destiny attached, there's no ancient wizards telling you about a prophecy, there's no secret order that saves that free world and direly needs your help.
Speaking of family tragedies, I thought this aspect wasn't as well done. The death of your first sibling is too abrupt, and as a new player you have no emotional attachment to a character you just met, background story be damned. Leandra is just whiny through the whole game. Gamlen is largely inconsequential. The only one of any emotional reasonance is the sibling you're stuck with for Act I, but even then as the Acts progress they get less involved.
Speaking of family tragedies, I thought this aspect wasn't as well done. The death of your first sibling is too abrupt, and as a new player you have no emotional attachment to a character you just met, background story be damned. Leandra is just whiny through the whole game. Gamlen is largely inconsequential. The only one of any emotional reasonance is the sibling you're stuck with for Act I, but even then as the Acts progress they get less involved.
Dude. The way your mom went. Dude. That quest was insane. Came out of nowhere, punched you in the stomach and left you with a massive frustrated wtf on your face. The first sibling demise was meh, but your mom? that was soooo well done.
I appreciate that they tried to do something other than SAVE THE WORLD! this time, but the sidequests themselves were so goddamn boring, and the recycled areas were pretty painful to go through. It's sad, since BG2 had the same idea for the first act, but was so fun.
Good idea, bad execution.
I just started act 3, and I'm really hoping this game's going to get better... Other than the boring and required sidequests, enemies respawning out of thin air is really testing my patience. They ditched instead of improving the 'strategic positioning' completely it seems.
Speaking of family tragedies, I thought this aspect wasn't as well done. The death of your first sibling is too abrupt, and as a new player you have no emotional attachment to a character you just met, background story be damned. Leandra is just whiny through the whole game. Gamlen is largely inconsequential. The only one of any emotional reasonance is the sibling you're stuck with for Act I, but even then as the Acts progress they get less involved.
Dude. The way your mom went. Dude. That quest was insane. Came out of nowhere, punched you in the stomach and left you with a massive frustrated wtf on your face. The first sibling demise was meh, but your mom? that was soooo well done.
The last words scene spoiled it for me. The emotional impact disappeared, and it became cheesy, when she started telling me how much she loved me etc. It would have been better if she had said those words before, and at the end just managed to croak and grunt in pain, as though she wanted to repeat them.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Hawke is also living in the slums in the same house with his or her mother, uncle, sibling, and dog. Who wants to live in the slums?
I think I might want to be not poor if I lived in those.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Also they are poor and can't afford "protection" and either you or your "beloved" sister is an apostate running from constant opression or death from the Templars. Going to the deep roads is in an effort to rise above poverty and provide you with some semblance of protection against their persecution.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Hawke is not a fucking normal dude, obviously. He is doing ninja flips, hanging out with apostates, and generally killing more people a day than your average person would even talk to.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Hawke is not a fucking normal dude, obviously. He is doing ninja flips, hanging out with apostates, and generally killing more people a day than your average person would even talk to.
Character-driven is all well and good, but when I am given little reason to really get behind what my character is doing, and given a pretty weak and underdeveloped goal, it's hard to care about anything. They could have at least introduced some sort of major reason that I need money for ASAP that's more compelling than "your family isn't rich, so let's get rich!" Right now I am not invested in my character and what she is doing, and this is really the first time in a Bioware game I can say that.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Hawke is not a fucking normal dude, obviously. He is doing ninja flips, hanging out with apostates, and generally killing more people a day than your average person would even talk to.
You can't do ninja flips? :winky:
But seriously: he lives in a fantasy setting. If he didn't meet and interact with interesting people during the course of his life it would be pretty boring. His motivations however, are that of a normal man. He's forced to kill dudes because honestly, what else is he gonna do? become a fisherman? It's also a pretty damn easy way to make monies in that goddamn city with all its problems.
Hawke can have normal ambitions and still tell a story which is epic. Making money is a good normal goal. It doesn't have to be obtained through several hours of sidequests, though
Or any number of mundane things that would fail at making a compelling story. That happened to revolve around mankilling and fireballing.
Now, a kickass cop solving crimes alongside his grumpy old templar partner would be nice.
Actually... All of these sound interesting.
It would be a very different sort of game. But it would still be a role-playing game. Except that your motivations are more street-level than heroic.
I would love to play a game where your character's primary motivation is to ensure that your family survives and does well, by hook or by crook.
That was Hawke's motivation to begin with, but shit happens and shit changes.
Stuff like that's better off in other forms of media. Definitely not in a game like this. People already had crazy expectations based on the previous game. I could only imagine all the tears and outrage if they had released a Harvest Moon/Fallout crossover game.
Hawke can have normal ambitions and still tell a story which is epic. Making money is a good normal goal. It doesn't have to be obtained through several hours of sidequests, though
I gotta be honest, I'm kinda oldschool in this regard. I like spending hours on sidequests, gear comparisons, min-maxing stats, etc etc. DA 2 is pretty fluid in what little of that it has. The sidequests were super quick...I'm guessing it's because combat flows really well (once you get used to it).
But to each his own: sidequests aren't everyone's cup 'o tea.
Or any number of mundane things that would fail at making a compelling story.
Well, that sounds to me a lot like most of GTA 4, which I and a few people with me found rather likeable. I even think itsold a decent number of copies and was fairly well recieved critically at that.
Hawke can have normal ambitions and still tell a story which is epic. Making money is a good normal goal. It doesn't have to be obtained through several hours of sidequests, though
I can understand your complaint, although you don't have to spend 16 hours doing all those side-quests before continuing with the plot. As a completionist, it's hard not to want to do everything, but if the pacing is bothering you, you have the option to just move forward.
In any case, things do pick up after the first act. He doesn't stay a mundane person doing mundane tasks. He becomes much more important. It's not on the scale of ending blights, of course, but Hawke doesn't spend all his time concerned with earning more money. That first act is not the whole game.
Dashui on
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Generally all the little things you do for petty cash have a story arc that carries into the later acts so it ends up feeling a lot grander as you progress. There's 100g+ up for grabs if you do everything in Act 1 so you don't actually have to bother if you're getting bored; just do the main story quests.
Generally all the little things you do for petty cash have a story arc that carries into the later acts so it ends up feeling a lot grander as you progress. There's 100g+ up for grabs if you do everything in Act 1 so you don't actually have to bother if you're getting bored; just do the main story quests.
Man, I ended with 7gp. After buying the 45gp ring. And stuff. Respec potions are expensive
I ended with 1g14s after buying the two ability point tomes, all the backpacks, recipes, armour upgrades and a bunch of respec potions (and maybe resource nodes?), haha. Good thing you get paid at the start of Act 2.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
The auto-attack coding in this game is awful.
Like, the AI default auto-attack overrides a lot of player commands if you give a command and then switch to another character while they're in the middle of an auto animation.
Actually, just in general, the combat controls are such a step back from Origins that it's really embarassing.
You can press R to conveniently loot or attack the nearest target. I can't think of anything else, especially not something that you could call a step back.
Oh my god that's right we somehow played through an entire game (multiple times even!) without the r key.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Nope. Mages in particular are bad at it; during the "finisher" part of their auto-attack combo (where they slam the staff down on the ground) is the worst time to attempt casting anything with them; sometimes they'll just be there saying "nope, gotta finish this three-second animation reel first before I do anything... oops, times up for that ability cast, back to auto-attacking!"
The controls are messy in that it requires much more tweaking of Tactics to stop ranged characters like Varric or Merrill running around willy-nilly when someone breathes on them, you don't get any decent viewpoint for casting AoE spells (which is just plain old annoying, especially when there's a low roof), and, oh yes, the cross-class combos basically mean you have to spend time on the Tactics page so that companions don't do stupid things putting their combo-finishing abilities on cooldown before someone uses a combo-opener, or use non-combo abilities on enemies that have a combo effect on them (which is awesome fun to try and Tactic).
Oh, and there's also the occasional "I've got this enemy selected, but if you try and just click my single-target spell once, I'll present the targeting reticule for you." That one is weird and erratic as to whether it happens or not.
I've gotten to pretty much end game and I was curious if anyone else thought
That anders was a complete and utter doushebag? The guy not only initates a massive war, he killed the one person in the city (The old Matron) who could concievably healed the rift caused by Meredith's dickery by blowing up a church.
What the hell? What was this supposed to accomplish?
I've gotten to pretty much end game and I was curious if anyone else thought
That anders was a complete and utter doushebag? The guy not only initates a massive war, he killed the one person in the city (The old Matron) who could concievably healed the rift caused by Meredith's dickery by blowing up a church.
What the hell? What was this supposed to accomplish?
The chantry would have stalled, negotiated, bargained and would have ended up with exactly the same situation: templars and circles. I think Anders knew that. The chance of mages negotiating their freedom is incredibly small (hasn't worked yet plus the templars negotiate from a position of control and power). In a war, however, they have a shot at breaking the cycle. I mean, if they aren't going to be granted freedom then what choice do they have but to fight for it? Anders, in a way, sacrificed his own morality to give his people a chance to take back their freedom and stop a legacy of enslavement and oppression.
Someone needed to rock the boat and become the catalyst for change, but he knew it would require him to become the bad guy. He paid that price willingly.
...also: shouldn't have taken his cat away, bitches.
I've gotten to pretty much end game and I was curious if anyone else thought
That anders was a complete and utter doushebag? The guy not only initates a massive war, he killed the one person in the city (The old Matron) who could concievably healed the rift caused by Meredith's dickery by blowing up a church.
What the hell? What was this supposed to accomplish?
The chantry would have stalled, negotiated, bargained and would have ended up with exactly the same situation: templars and circles. I think Anders knew that. The chance of mages negotiating their freedom is incredibly small (hasn't worked yet plus the templars negotiate from a position of control and power). In a war, however, they have a shot at breaking the cycle. I mean, if they aren't going to be granted freedom then what choice do they have but to fight for it? Anders, in a way, sacrificed his own morality to give his people a chance to take back their freedom and stop a legacy of enslavement and oppression.
Someone needed to rock the boat and become the catalyst for change, but he knew it would require him to become the bad guy. He paid that price willingly.
...also: shouldn't have taken his cat away, bitches.
Pretty much that. It was pretty crystal clear that Anders explicit intent was to prevent any healing of the conflict and instead wanted to spark a revolutionary war, something his actions accomplished quite nicely. I think it was a pretty damned good character arc and it highligted the way freedom fighter and terrorist usually are rather uncomfortably close. And also, the Chantry isn't some mediator between Templars and mages. The templars are a part of the chantry, it's armed wing. It's the chantry that keeps the mages in the circles, so for someone like Anders the chantry is not some innocent third party. It really is the main enemy of sorts.
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Although it would have been smarter of Hawke to either rob, steal or invest his money. But that would probably not be as fun.
See, the thing is, DA2 isn't about epic in the traditional sense. You're not saving the world or fighting old gods or whatever. You're a common bloke who tries to make a sweet life for himself and gets dragged into shit. Most of your concerns are everyday and material. Things do ramp up (and very soon, in your case) but that's what makes the DA2 storyline a kind of weird magic: you aren't a hero until you damn well decide to be. You deal with monsters as much as you deal with family tragedies and your personal life. You're as concerned about your companions and your home as you are about glory and fame. There's no magic sword with a destiny attached, there's no ancient wizards telling you about a prophecy, there's no secret order that saves that free world and direly needs your help.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Good idea, bad execution.
I just started act 3, and I'm really hoping this game's going to get better... Other than the boring and required sidequests, enemies respawning out of thin air is really testing my patience. They ditched instead of improving the 'strategic positioning' completely it seems.
An antagonist would be nice, too. Even something like a dude who is trying to sabatoge my efforts in order to get in on the expedition ahead of me, or a rival family that doesn't want mine to get it's honor back, or something.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
You're missing the point. Like, really missing it. Hawke is a normal dude. Normal dudes try to *gasp* improve their station, get rich, live the easy life, look after the people they care about. That's what we all do. You know who has rivals? heroes and pokemon trainers.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Hawke is also living in the slums in the same house with his or her mother, uncle, sibling, and dog. Who wants to live in the slums?
I think I might want to be not poor if I lived in those.
Also they are poor and can't afford "protection" and either you or your "beloved" sister is an apostate running from constant opression or death from the Templars. Going to the deep roads is in an effort to rise above poverty and provide you with some semblance of protection against their persecution.
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Hawke is not a fucking normal dude, obviously. He is doing ninja flips, hanging out with apostates, and generally killing more people a day than your average person would even talk to.
Heh. You must have a pretty dull life.
You can't do ninja flips? :winky:
But seriously: he lives in a fantasy setting. If he didn't meet and interact with interesting people during the course of his life it would be pretty boring. His motivations however, are that of a normal man. He's forced to kill dudes because honestly, what else is he gonna do? become a fisherman? It's also a pretty damn easy way to make monies in that goddamn city with all its problems.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
I don't see why they could just squat in it after killing everyone in there
A bouncer at a pub or brothel?
A hired thug?
Stay a mercenary or smuggler?
Clean the streets or sewers?
Become a baker?
Or any number of mundane things that would fail at making a compelling story. That happened to revolve around mankilling and fireballing.
Now, a kickass cop solving crimes alongside his grumpy old templar partner would be nice.
Actually... All of these sound interesting.
It would be a very different sort of game. But it would still be a role-playing game. Except that your motivations are more street-level than heroic.
I would love to play a game where your character's primary motivation is to ensure that your family survives and does well, by hook or by crook.
That was Hawke's motivation to begin with, but shit happens and shit changes.
Stuff like that's better off in other forms of media. Definitely not in a game like this. People already had crazy expectations based on the previous game. I could only imagine all the tears and outrage if they had released a Harvest Moon/Fallout crossover game.
I gotta be honest, I'm kinda oldschool in this regard. I like spending hours on sidequests, gear comparisons, min-maxing stats, etc etc. DA 2 is pretty fluid in what little of that it has. The sidequests were super quick...I'm guessing it's because combat flows really well (once you get used to it).
But to each his own: sidequests aren't everyone's cup 'o tea.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Well, that sounds to me a lot like most of GTA 4, which I and a few people with me found rather likeable. I even think itsold a decent number of copies and was fairly well recieved critically at that.
Because it seems like they flip their staves around while doing very littlep
I can understand your complaint, although you don't have to spend 16 hours doing all those side-quests before continuing with the plot. As a completionist, it's hard not to want to do everything, but if the pacing is bothering you, you have the option to just move forward.
In any case, things do pick up after the first act. He doesn't stay a mundane person doing mundane tasks. He becomes much more important. It's not on the scale of ending blights, of course, but Hawke doesn't spend all his time concerned with earning more money. That first act is not the whole game.
Man, I ended with 7gp. After buying the 45gp ring. And stuff. Respec potions are expensive
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Like, the AI default auto-attack overrides a lot of player commands if you give a command and then switch to another character while they're in the middle of an auto animation.
Actually, just in general, the combat controls are such a step back from Origins that it's really embarassing.
I don't actually see how the controls are different in any way, shape, or form from Origins.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
The controls are messy in that it requires much more tweaking of Tactics to stop ranged characters like Varric or Merrill running around willy-nilly when someone breathes on them, you don't get any decent viewpoint for casting AoE spells (which is just plain old annoying, especially when there's a low roof), and, oh yes, the cross-class combos basically mean you have to spend time on the Tactics page so that companions don't do stupid things putting their combo-finishing abilities on cooldown before someone uses a combo-opener, or use non-combo abilities on enemies that have a combo effect on them (which is awesome fun to try and Tactic).
Oh, and there's also the occasional "I've got this enemy selected, but if you try and just click my single-target spell once, I'll present the targeting reticule for you." That one is weird and erratic as to whether it happens or not.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
That's not to say you aren't having them, obviously, but...sorry?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I've gotten to pretty much end game and I was curious if anyone else thought
What the hell? What was this supposed to accomplish?
Someone needed to rock the boat and become the catalyst for change, but he knew it would require him to become the bad guy. He paid that price willingly.
...also: shouldn't have taken his cat away, bitches.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW