Bench deload day. I spent the work sets (and assistance sets, tbh) focusing on my form, keeping everything tight, etc. If nothing else, it got me excited to bump back up to heavy weights next week. Followed up with some Pendlay rows and one-arm DB rows and called it a day. My back feels better every day, which is good and lets me know that the deload is doing what it was supposed to.
On a side note, I remember reading an article by Dave Tate where he wrote that if your body feels comfortable at all while benching, then you aren't doing it right. I have to say, making sure everything is as tight as possible does make a huge difference in the feel of the lift, even at lighter weights.
Emruggs on
0
Options
webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
On Monday's workout I did my very best to getting the best form for my routines, and the next day I was sore where I needed to be. On Wednesday's workout I hit the same exercises with the same weights (with a few weight increases in some exercises), but my bench press stayed the same since my form isn't 100%. Now on Monday when I tried adding an extra 5 pounds to my max on the bar, I fell apart by the 6th rep on the extra set I gave myself. On Wednesday I only stuck with the 3 sets without the extra 5 pounds, but i'm not really sore in my pecs like I was from Monday's recovery session.
My problem is this; After Friday, i'm gonna have to wait till next Monday before I can hit the gym again thanks to gym hours/work schedule. I want to push that five pound increase on the bench press for my final set, but i'm worried that my form is going to fall apart again like it did on Monday. If I play it safe and stick with the weights I have now, i'll be able to finish my reps no problem, but i'll have to wait til Monday of next week before I can up the weights again. That means I might have to wait till Wednesday of next week before I can be primed to push that increase.
If I had a spotter, this situation wouldn't be a problem. However, my gym is a literal ghost town during the morning/afternoon, so there's nobody around to help me out.
What should I do here? Go for the extra weight on my max sans spotter with risky form, or play it safe but potentially delay myself from improving until the middle of next week?
don't add in extra sets just because you feel like it, especially since you're just figuring things out. stick with a program prescribed to you, and then when you're experienced, then you can mess around because you know what works and what doesn't.
you don't need to be sore to have had a good workout, you'll be really sore the first time you do something, but then not so much after. sometimes you will, but just because you're sore or not doesn't mean you did or did not work hard enough.
just stick with the 3x5 program if thats what you're doing, and make small increases (5 lbs) each time
you don't need to be doing this super often to make gains, you're worried about taking 2 days off from going to the gym... if you're doing Starting Strength like you mentioned earlier, then 3 days a week is what the program calls for. it's fine. you get stronger by resting after you work out.
now if you took a whole week off then maybe i'd drop the weight a bit and go back up, but you didn't. you'll be fine. just do 3x5 with 5 lbs more next time.
My fitness plan is very simple, and consists of the following:
1) Bench press
2) Straight-leg Deadlifts
3) Assisted pull-ups
4) Squats
5) Shoulder/military press
Assisted pull-ups will turn into regular pull-ups when I can pull my body weight with perfect form, and straight-let deadlifts will turn into regular deadlifts when I can lift my own body weight with perfect form.
What about abdominal exercises? Could I squeeze in something there, or would that muck up with some of my other core exercises?
He probably means regular deadlifts, we've had people make that mistake before.
I'd suggest you just work on pullups without the assistance even if you can only do one or two, I didn't make any progress until I started just hauling my heavy ass around without help.
I'm not doing regular pull-ups, it's the arc ones that focus on your lats and back. They're much, much harder than regular ones.
Also yes, I am doing straight-leg deadlifts. The guy who helped me out told me to start with those over full ones because they are safer/easier, so i'm sticking with them for now.
Godfather: Take a deep breath and take a step back. You're getting ahead of yourself and trying to overthink the programming.
I know that sometimes you'll blow through your reps and feel like adding weight on the last set, but don't do this. Do all your working sets at the correct weight and then move up in weight during the next workout and do all of your sets at that weight. Rinse and Repeat.
Additionally, what are your goals? It sounds like you're doing Mass Gaining reps (6-12 per set) as opposed to Strength Gaining reps (1-5) per set. If it is more important to you to improve how much you can lift (i.e. adding that five pounds each time) then you should be working in Strength Gaining reps. If it's more important to you to continue to work on size than you need to work on Mass Gaining reps.
It's easy to want it all, right? But concentrate on building strength now. It's one of the best ways to build a solid foundation on which you'll develop towards your future goals.
And don't mess with the program! It's really tempting in the beginning as many reasonably in-shape people will be able to make very rapid progress, but hold yourself back and that progress will be something that will remain linear for much longer than if you try and overdo it right away.
And don't consider "the Burn" or soreness to be an earmark of a successful workout. A little tightness is to be expected but it's rare that I wake up with real soreness.
Once you get to a point where you can squat 2x body weight, bench 1.5x body weight and DL at least 2x body weight then you can start reevaluating your programming. If, at that point you're still making swift linear gains (adding 2.5-5 lbs to the bar each workout) then don't change anything. If you stall, try a deload week and then push back into linear progress. If that doesn't work then start looking at intermediate programming.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Oh, and eat a lot of clean food and sleep. Muscles aren't made lifting weights, they're made by resting and eating after lifting weights.
Real deadlifts are safer and easier than straight leg deadlifts. Your friend is wrong. There isn't some kind of magical arcing pullup that is much harder than regular pullups that you should be doing when you've been training for a week. Your friend is wrong.
On Monday's workout I did my very best to getting the best form for my routines, and the next day I was sore where I needed to be. On Wednesday's workout I hit the same exercises with the same weights (with a few weight increases in some exercises), but my bench press stayed the same since my form isn't 100%. Now on Monday when I tried adding an extra 5 pounds to my max on the bar, I fell apart by the 6th rep on the extra set I gave myself. On Wednesday I only stuck with the 3 sets without the extra 5 pounds, but i'm not really sore in my pecs like I was from Monday's recovery session.
My problem is this; After Friday, i'm gonna have to wait till next Monday before I can hit the gym again thanks to gym hours/work schedule. I want to push that five pound increase on the bench press for my final set, but i'm worried that my form is going to fall apart again like it did on Monday. If I play it safe and stick with the weights I have now, i'll be able to finish my reps no problem, but i'll have to wait til Monday of next week before I can up the weights again. That means I might have to wait till Wednesday of next week before I can be primed to push that increase.
If I had a spotter, this situation wouldn't be a problem. However, my gym is a literal ghost town during the morning/afternoon, so there's nobody around to help me out.
What should I do here? Go for the extra weight on my max sans spotter with risky form, or play it safe but potentially delay myself from improving until the middle of next week?
1) soreness != workout efficacy. Don't equate the 2. You'll get sore anytime you drastically change a variable. It's not a good sign or a bad sign. It just happens.
2)there is a time and place for training to absolute failure. The 1st month of your beginner routine isn't it. You shouldn't need a spotter. If I hold a gun to your head at the end of a tough set you should be able to muster one more (ugly) rep. As a beginner, if you have trouble maintaining proper form with submaximal weights why strain your way through that last rep? If you can't maintain form don't attempt the rep. You'll still get stronger keeping to solid reps.
3) A 2 day break is not a bad thing. You get stronger outside the gym, not in it. There's no rush: if you add 5lbs a month for a year your bench would increase 60lbs. 60lbs in a year might not sound like much but if you kept it up for 3 years you'd be ahead of 99% of the people out there. Patience.
I'm doing mass gaining, not strength gaining. 3 sets of 8 reps for everything.
Guys, I really like my program right now, I don't want to mess with it. I was just curious on if I should add an extra 5 pounds is all. I also just wanted to know if ab exercises were gonna mess with my other ones. I'm not gonna pile on a bunch of secondary muscle exercises just yet.
I'll probably change the deadlifting thing, but everything else is ironclad.
haha love it. Thai pads came in today. Awesome-ness. Was good getting in some work last night lifting, I don't feel right if I go more then a few days and I've been consistently banged up and hurt for 2 weeks now.
Healing up is the worst fucking part. I can deal with being banged up, I can't deal with being told 'you can't lift/train for a bit' it's driving me crazy.
Chessboxing909 on
"I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz
Tube's role in this thread tends to be to tell new people to maybe listen to the advice of people who've been doing this a lot longer than they have so yeah, we've all been there. He's usually right though.
I'm doing mass gaining, not strength gaining. 3 sets of 8 reps for everything.
Guys, I really like my program right now, I don't want to mess with it. I was just curious on if I should add an extra 5 pounds is all. I also just wanted to know if ab exercises were gonna mess with my other ones. I'm not gonna pile on a bunch of secondary muscle exercises just yet.
I'll probably change the deadlifting thing, but everything else is ironclad.
Hey, that's cool. You're focusing on compound barbell lifts so you got a big part down. I'm not suggesting that you change up your program. I'd just recommend that if you're ever about to do something with "risky form", stop and ask yourself why.
As for abs, I wouldn't worry about it. Most of your lifts work the abs already. But if you felt like throwing in a set at the end I doubt it'd be horribly deleterious.
1. Eat more. A LOT MORE. Add at least 50% more to your food intake for 3 months and get back to us
2. Lift heavy weights at least 3 times a week, have a high preference for compound movements.
1. I know, sadly. I'm trying my little heart out but food here is mostly either expensive or terrible. I'm mostly going peanut butter sandwiches and protein shakes for extra 'meals'.
2. Yep, here's why I'm switching programs. I've been doing too many isolating exercises on fancy machines and so forth.
That's the program I'm doing so I'll let you know what I do, just to give you ideas. I don't have a lot of time for my workouts so I only add one thing to the end of each workout: On the first day I do this shoulder routine to keep things working right there. On the second day (deadlift day) I do chest dips which are awesome and I recommend. On the third day I do heavy farmers walks because they too are awesome and have good crossover to other things.
As to warming up, I think you just kind of figure out what works for you. I tend to do a few warmup sets before each that gradually work up to my working weight, like for squats I'll do 5 reps with just the bar, then 5 with 95, then 5 with 135, then 3x5 with my working weight (last session 230). For me that's the sweet spot between warming up and getting my form dialed in without burning my legs out, other people's routines probably are a lot different.
Thanks, chest dips I am painfully familiar with and will definitely continue. I'll have to do some googling to find out the benefits/proper weight for farmers walks, though. Checking the shoulder link now. Re: warmups, I'll definitely have to play around a bit to find out what works, but it's nice to have a ballpark estimate.
A lot of people make the mistake of "Man, I thought I'd be bigger by now. I guess I have to work out even more" This is almost all the time way wrong. You most likely need to Cut your workouts down to 3 days a week and simply eat twice as much as you are now (4000-6000kcal).
This is exactly why I'm changing my program to one of the Starting Strength ones.
Additionally, what are your goals? It sounds like you're doing Mass Gaining reps (6-12 per set) as opposed to Strength Gaining reps (1-5) per set. If it is more important to you to improve how much you can lift (i.e. adding that five pounds each time) then you should be working in Strength Gaining reps. If it's more important to you to continue to work on size than you need to work on Mass Gaining reps.
Can I intercept this and ask some advice? My goal is BIGNESS also SIZE also BUFFITUDE. That in mind, should I be doing 3x8 instead of 3x5 in these Starting Strength workouts? I'm currently benching about bodyweight, can't remember what I did the last time I squatted, have never deadlifted before. Is it better to start lifting some heavy weights before going to 3x8, or should I just do it now, from the start?
If you want to get buff I'd suggest sticking with strength progressions for your big lifts and just working in a fair amount of higher rep work as supplemental. Do a compound for strength, at least one similar (or the same) compound for reps and then a set or two of isolation work, if you need it.
Like, if you wanted to work your chest go:
Bench - 3x5
T-Bar Row - 3x8
Incline Bench - 3x10
Cable Crossover - 3x15
Dips - work in as many as you can between sets. Don't set an explicit goal.
Can I intercept this and ask some advice? My goal is BIGNESS also SIZE also BUFFITUDE. That in mind, should I be doing 3x8 instead of 3x5 in these Starting Strength workouts? I'm currently benching about bodyweight, can't remember what I did the last time I squatted, have never deadlifted before. Is it better to start lifting some heavy weights before going to 3x8, or should I just do it now, from the start?
It doesn't matter that much. I'd just do the program as written, since focusing on strength first is rarely a bad thing. The way I look at it is, if you add 100lbs to your lift you're going to be bigger.
There's another linear progression out there that's 2 sets of 5 and then a set of AMRAP (which I prefer). 5X5 is another popular one. I think as long as you're focusing on improving every session, you can't go wrong.
Lately I've been experiencing some pain in my left shoulder as a result of squatting(high bar position). I'm not sure if it's because of flexibility issues, but I don't *think* that's the case. Thoughts?
I really, really don't want to stop squatting.
Sami on
0
Options
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
Do regular pullups, anything considered heard unless it is genuinely cut your fingers because it is hard isn't actually hard, it is just awkward.
Lately I've been experiencing some pain in my left shoulder as a result of squatting(high bar position). I'm not sure if it's because of flexibility issues, but I don't *think* that's the case. Thoughts?
I really, really don't want to stop squatting.
It's really unlikely that the high bar squats by themselves are the issue. You may be stressing your shoulder on other lifts and the high bar squats are straining it.
How wide is your grip on the bar? Are you keeping the bar tight and not letting it drift down your back?
Lately I've been experiencing some pain in my left shoulder as a result of squatting(high bar position). I'm not sure if it's because of flexibility issues, but I don't *think* that's the case. Thoughts?
I really, really don't want to stop squatting.
I agree with Kak, high bar squatting should put very little stress on the shoulder, particularly in the need for flexibility. See if you can get someone to take a picture close-up of your bar position on your back and then by looking at the pic you can see what's up.
Alright, so today we're going to try regular deadlifts. I'm looking up proper form so I don't screw up my back.
:^:
Step up to the bar, put your shoelaces under the bar where the bar covers the knot in your shoelaces. Keep legs straight, and reach down and grab the bar. I do one thumb of Knurling (put the tip of my thumb at the edge of knurling) but your bar may be different. Just grab it comfortably. Bend your knees till your shins touch the bar. Straighten your back, breath in, tighten your lower abs and ass, and pull.
Your ass will look/feel like it's higher than it should be, but it won't be. Lot of people squat their butt down too low on deadlifts.
Posts
On a side note, I remember reading an article by Dave Tate where he wrote that if your body feels comfortable at all while benching, then you aren't doing it right. I have to say, making sure everything is as tight as possible does make a huge difference in the feel of the lift, even at lighter weights.
Bent over rows with a barbell and a rowing machine.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
the stupid foot holders at this one are painful and the handle is too thick
Is it a concept2?
Thinking about hiking today. Its pissing rain, but maybe I'll get motivated enough! need to find one of my knee sleeves though.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
the ones we had at school were
this one is something else
good choice video uploader
On Monday's workout I did my very best to getting the best form for my routines, and the next day I was sore where I needed to be. On Wednesday's workout I hit the same exercises with the same weights (with a few weight increases in some exercises), but my bench press stayed the same since my form isn't 100%. Now on Monday when I tried adding an extra 5 pounds to my max on the bar, I fell apart by the 6th rep on the extra set I gave myself. On Wednesday I only stuck with the 3 sets without the extra 5 pounds, but i'm not really sore in my pecs like I was from Monday's recovery session.
My problem is this; After Friday, i'm gonna have to wait till next Monday before I can hit the gym again thanks to gym hours/work schedule. I want to push that five pound increase on the bench press for my final set, but i'm worried that my form is going to fall apart again like it did on Monday. If I play it safe and stick with the weights I have now, i'll be able to finish my reps no problem, but i'll have to wait til Monday of next week before I can up the weights again. That means I might have to wait till Wednesday of next week before I can be primed to push that increase.
If I had a spotter, this situation wouldn't be a problem. However, my gym is a literal ghost town during the morning/afternoon, so there's nobody around to help me out.
What should I do here? Go for the extra weight on my max sans spotter with risky form, or play it safe but potentially delay myself from improving until the middle of next week?
you don't need to be sore to have had a good workout, you'll be really sore the first time you do something, but then not so much after. sometimes you will, but just because you're sore or not doesn't mean you did or did not work hard enough.
just stick with the 3x5 program if thats what you're doing, and make small increases (5 lbs) each time
you don't need to be doing this super often to make gains, you're worried about taking 2 days off from going to the gym... if you're doing Starting Strength like you mentioned earlier, then 3 days a week is what the program calls for. it's fine. you get stronger by resting after you work out.
now if you took a whole week off then maybe i'd drop the weight a bit and go back up, but you didn't. you'll be fine. just do 3x5 with 5 lbs more next time.
I am FOR SURE going to be rocking the purple leotard in the gym from now on.
But I hear you. I'll just keep it the same until next week rolls around.
keep it simple, don't overthink things
just go, do your working sets at one weight
then next week/session/whatever do those working sets at a higher weight
you will make progress
no need to rush it
1) Bench press
2) Straight-leg Deadlifts
3) Assisted pull-ups
4) Squats
5) Shoulder/military press
Assisted pull-ups will turn into regular pull-ups when I can pull my body weight with perfect form, and straight-let deadlifts will turn into regular deadlifts when I can lift my own body weight with perfect form.
What about abdominal exercises? Could I squeeze in something there, or would that muck up with some of my other core exercises?
you need to be way more flexible to do those
I'd suggest you just work on pullups without the assistance even if you can only do one or two, I didn't make any progress until I started just hauling my heavy ass around without help.
Also yes, I am doing straight-leg deadlifts. The guy who helped me out told me to start with those over full ones because they are safer/easier, so i'm sticking with them for now.
I know that sometimes you'll blow through your reps and feel like adding weight on the last set, but don't do this. Do all your working sets at the correct weight and then move up in weight during the next workout and do all of your sets at that weight. Rinse and Repeat.
Additionally, what are your goals? It sounds like you're doing Mass Gaining reps (6-12 per set) as opposed to Strength Gaining reps (1-5) per set. If it is more important to you to improve how much you can lift (i.e. adding that five pounds each time) then you should be working in Strength Gaining reps. If it's more important to you to continue to work on size than you need to work on Mass Gaining reps.
It's easy to want it all, right? But concentrate on building strength now. It's one of the best ways to build a solid foundation on which you'll develop towards your future goals.
And don't mess with the program! It's really tempting in the beginning as many reasonably in-shape people will be able to make very rapid progress, but hold yourself back and that progress will be something that will remain linear for much longer than if you try and overdo it right away.
And don't consider "the Burn" or soreness to be an earmark of a successful workout. A little tightness is to be expected but it's rare that I wake up with real soreness.
Once you get to a point where you can squat 2x body weight, bench 1.5x body weight and DL at least 2x body weight then you can start reevaluating your programming. If, at that point you're still making swift linear gains (adding 2.5-5 lbs to the bar each workout) then don't change anything. If you stall, try a deload week and then push back into linear progress. If that doesn't work then start looking at intermediate programming.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Oh, and eat a lot of clean food and sleep. Muscles aren't made lifting weights, they're made by resting and eating after lifting weights.
Ryan M Long Photography
Buy my Prints!
1) soreness != workout efficacy. Don't equate the 2. You'll get sore anytime you drastically change a variable. It's not a good sign or a bad sign. It just happens.
2)there is a time and place for training to absolute failure. The 1st month of your beginner routine isn't it. You shouldn't need a spotter. If I hold a gun to your head at the end of a tough set you should be able to muster one more (ugly) rep. As a beginner, if you have trouble maintaining proper form with submaximal weights why strain your way through that last rep? If you can't maintain form don't attempt the rep. You'll still get stronger keeping to solid reps.
3) A 2 day break is not a bad thing. You get stronger outside the gym, not in it. There's no rush: if you add 5lbs a month for a year your bench would increase 60lbs. 60lbs in a year might not sound like much but if you kept it up for 3 years you'd be ahead of 99% of the people out there. Patience.
Guys, I really like my program right now, I don't want to mess with it. I was just curious on if I should add an extra 5 pounds is all. I also just wanted to know if ab exercises were gonna mess with my other ones. I'm not gonna pile on a bunch of secondary muscle exercises just yet.
I'll probably change the deadlifting thing, but everything else is ironclad.
Healing up is the worst fucking part. I can deal with being banged up, I can't deal with being told 'you can't lift/train for a bit' it's driving me crazy.
I love south american ground karate
Hey, that's cool. You're focusing on compound barbell lifts so you got a big part down. I'm not suggesting that you change up your program. I'd just recommend that if you're ever about to do something with "risky form", stop and ask yourself why.
As for abs, I wouldn't worry about it. Most of your lifts work the abs already. But if you felt like throwing in a set at the end I doubt it'd be horribly deleterious.
2. Yep, here's why I'm switching programs. I've been doing too many isolating exercises on fancy machines and so forth.
Thanks, chest dips I am painfully familiar with and will definitely continue. I'll have to do some googling to find out the benefits/proper weight for farmers walks, though. Checking the shoulder link now. Re: warmups, I'll definitely have to play around a bit to find out what works, but it's nice to have a ballpark estimate.
This is exactly why I'm changing my program to one of the Starting Strength ones.
Can I intercept this and ask some advice? My goal is BIGNESS also SIZE also BUFFITUDE. That in mind, should I be doing 3x8 instead of 3x5 in these Starting Strength workouts? I'm currently benching about bodyweight, can't remember what I did the last time I squatted, have never deadlifted before. Is it better to start lifting some heavy weights before going to 3x8, or should I just do it now, from the start?
Like, if you wanted to work your chest go:
Bench - 3x5
T-Bar Row - 3x8
Incline Bench - 3x10
Cable Crossover - 3x15
Dips - work in as many as you can between sets. Don't set an explicit goal.
It doesn't matter that much. I'd just do the program as written, since focusing on strength first is rarely a bad thing. The way I look at it is, if you add 100lbs to your lift you're going to be bigger.
There's another linear progression out there that's 2 sets of 5 and then a set of AMRAP (which I prefer). 5X5 is another popular one. I think as long as you're focusing on improving every session, you can't go wrong.
I really, really don't want to stop squatting.
Satans..... hints.....
It's really unlikely that the high bar squats by themselves are the issue. You may be stressing your shoulder on other lifts and the high bar squats are straining it.
How wide is your grip on the bar? Are you keeping the bar tight and not letting it drift down your back?
I agree with Kak, high bar squatting should put very little stress on the shoulder, particularly in the need for flexibility. See if you can get someone to take a picture close-up of your bar position on your back and then by looking at the pic you can see what's up.
:^:
Step up to the bar, put your shoelaces under the bar where the bar covers the knot in your shoelaces. Keep legs straight, and reach down and grab the bar. I do one thumb of Knurling (put the tip of my thumb at the edge of knurling) but your bar may be different. Just grab it comfortably. Bend your knees till your shins touch the bar. Straighten your back, breath in, tighten your lower abs and ass, and pull.
Your ass will look/feel like it's higher than it should be, but it won't be. Lot of people squat their butt down too low on deadlifts.