So Paul currently has control of the avenger controller site? It's a parked domain currently.. I mean I'm not a lawyer obviously but if he was fired and that's company property isn't he technically doing something legally actionable, at least in a civil sense?
I believe that this situation has been defused in N-Control's favor.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
The more and more I hear him talk the more I realize he is a seriously handicapped individual emotionally and I really do feel bad for him, despite the epic level of terrible things he's currently doing and/or not doing to fix his career and his personal life.
I mean I wish someone he trusted would help him through this and point him in the right direction, but I just don't see that happening.
Dave clearly had a bad customer experience. Is he or is he not allowed to tell anyone about it?
Is it OK if he just tells his friends? What if one of his friends ran a gaming blog? Is he then not allowed to tell that person?
I didn't say that Dave didn't have a bad customer experience nor intimate any such thing. He can quite happily tell people about whatever he likes, but that doesn't excuse choosing to pass on what was sent to him and him alone to whomever he likes. That he can physically do so, because a computer lets him cc it to Mr Penny Arcade, doesn't actually make it morally acceptable.
I woukld also suggest that pretending you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't make you look smart; it's pretty facile.
Wow .. just wow .. "He can tell anyone he wants about this abusive service he got .. he just can't send out concrete proof of it happening, that's over the line".
Without a paper trail and a way to prove that this outlandishly ridiculous event occurred it could all be hearsay and slander ... hell yeah I'm going to include the original documents if I'm going to call someone's douchebaggery out. How does that not make sense to you?
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
So Paul currently has control of the avenger controller site? It's a parked domain currently.. I mean I'm not a lawyer obviously but if he was fired and that's company property isn't he technically doing something legally actionable, at least in a civil sense?
I believe that this situation has been defused in N-Control's favor.
I mean not currently it hasn't. Right now N-Control is losing pretty heavy potential dollars from this by not having a website online for people to buy their product who want to.
Although I'm sure right now anyone who reads the story is also hopefully reading between the lines about the fact that the controllers are also on a serious backorder status.
are YOU on the beer list?
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
So Paul currently has control of the avenger controller site? It's a parked domain currently.. I mean I'm not a lawyer obviously but if he was fired and that's company property isn't he technically doing something legally actionable, at least in a civil sense?
I believe that this situation has been defused in N-Control's favor.
I mean not currently it hasn't. Right now N-Control is losing pretty heavy potential dollars from this by not having a website online for people to buy their product who want to.
Although I'm sure right now anyone who reads the story is also hopefully reading between the lines about the fact that the controllers are also on a serious backorder status.
No no, I didn't type that with clarity. The last I read about it an N-Control rep had said that Paul gave up all that shit.
The more and more I hear him talk the more I realize he is a seriously handicapped individual emotionally and I really do feel bad for him, despite the epic level of terrible things he's currently doing and/or not doing to fix his career and his personal life.
I mean I wish someone he trusted would help him through this and point him in the right direction, but I just don't see that happening.
Typical dudebro attitudes though. Might be side-effect of unmanaged steroid use to curtail bitch-tits.
God I feel bad just even parroting information he's posted.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Wow, in the interview Paul says that the only indication that Mike has a heart is Child's Play.
I'm going to agree that the new guy is fantastic. If there's anything that was done right in this shitstorm, it was N-Control bringing him in to clean up the mess.
Considering what a monumental task that is, it really says something that this guy has a chance of fixing a lot of it.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Hahahaha, his New Year's Resolution is to be the best customer service person in the world.
I'm going to agree that the new guy is fantastic. If there's anything that was done right in this shitstorm, it was N-Control bringing him in to clean up the mess.
Considering what a monumental task that is, it really says something that this guy has a chance of fixing a lot of it.
And he does it with such goddamn fucking panache.
Ashoka on
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
yeah keep shitting on me kids, remember I have your CC info from orders. Let's see how tough you are after some nigerians get em.#War
Can anyone verify if that was an actual tweet that happened?
Although just to be perfectly clear the amazing new PR guy stated for the record just to be safe that Paul has never had any access to customer CC information, nor has Ocean Marketing. All purchases were done securely through Amazon and Google Checkout.
Dave clearly had a bad customer experience. Is he or is he not allowed to tell anyone about it?
Is it OK if he just tells his friends? What if one of his friends ran a gaming blog? Is he then not allowed to tell that person?
I didn't say that Dave didn't have a bad customer experience nor intimate any such thing. He can quite happily tell people about whatever he likes, but that doesn't excuse choosing to pass on what was sent to him and him alone to whomever he likes. That he can physically do so, because a computer lets him cc it to Mr Penny Arcade, doesn't actually make it morally acceptable.
I woukld also suggest that pretending you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't make you look smart; it's pretty facile.
Wow .. just wow .. "He can tell anyone he wants about this abusive service he got .. he just can't send out concrete proof of it happening, that's over the line".
Without a paper trail and a way to prove that this outlandishly ridiculous event occurred it could all be hearsay and slander ... hell yeah I'm going to include the original documents if I'm going to call someone's douchebaggery out. How does that not make sense to you?
What I can't get over is how ghost says he can happily tell whoever he likes, then immediately says that it doesn't excuse him for choosing to pass on what was sent to him. So apparantly he can talk about it, he just can't show it.
And as far as the topic as to why Gabe was brought into it was because Paul of all people started dropping names and cons and PAX happened to be one. It's not out of place to let someone know that something that they've created and run is being referred to.
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Seriously, while I did give some hate to the internet trigger that online celebrities have, Dave sent that e-mail chain to like six different major news sites in addition to Penny Arcade, PA was just the first one to respond to Paul specifically, and only because Paul mentioned having a table at PAX.
Is @OceanStratagy still his real twitter account? Because I might never, ever stop grinning at his assertion that "Mike is like a blackbelt, and when I threw the first punch, he didn't tell me that before he broke my jaw".
yeah keep shitting on me kids, remember I have your CC info from orders. Let's see how tough you are after some nigerians get em.#War
Can anyone verify if that was an actual tweet that happened?
That was an anon troll that registered an account, and "borrowed" paul's pictures and background .. NOT Paul, though Paul has said plenty directly from his mouth that is nearly as bad.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Is @OceanStratagy still his real twitter account? Because I might never, ever stop grinning at his assertion that "Mike is like a blackbelt, and when I threw the first punch, he didn't tell me that before he broke my jaw".
How dense can one human being possibly be?
@oceandeepsea is his current account. He claims he changed it twice to avoid the spam and hate, but realized that wasn't doing any good, and instead of just leaving twitter he settled on the last one and has stated that he has no plans to change it again.
Although personally I think the guy still has OceanStratagy, and possibly Oceanstreatagy as a way to vent without being caught, and possibly possibly OceanMarketting still since it's still the twitter feed showing up on the Ocean Marketing website.
Unless Paul doesn't know how to change that since he's not really a PR guy and website designer.
are YOU on the beer list?
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Is @OceanStratagy still his real twitter account? Because I might never, ever stop grinning at his assertion that "Mike is like a blackbelt, and when I threw the first punch, he didn't tell me that before he broke my jaw".
How dense can one human being possibly be?
@oceandeepsea is his current account. He claims he changed it twice to avoid the spam and hate, but realized that wasn't doing any good, and instead of just leaving twitter he settled on the last one and has stated that he has no plans to change it again.
Although personally I think the guy still has OceanStratagy, and possibly Oceanstreatagy as a way to vent without being caught, and possibly possibly OceanMarketting still since it's still the twitter feed showing up on the Ocean Marketing website.
Unless Paul doesn't know how to change that since he's not really a PR guy and website designer.
Paul's been using the internet since he was 14. He knows how this stuff works.
Just like he has a team of 125 people preparing a huge Internet smear campaign right now. Not a smear campaign on the internet, but a campaign designed to smear the internet.
Is @OceanStratagy still his real twitter account? Because I might never, ever stop grinning at his assertion that "Mike is like a blackbelt, and when I threw the first punch, he didn't tell me that before he broke my jaw".
How dense can one human being possibly be?
yeah .. i was amazed at the same .. which is why i made this comic to highlight Paul's Shallowness
Silvertiger on
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GonmunHe keeps kickin' me inthe dickRegistered Userregular
Paul's been using the internet since before were a sperm in your daddys balls and before it was the internet. He knows how this stuff works.
Just like he has a team of 125 people preparing a huge Internet smear campaign right now. Not a smear campaign on the internet, but a campaign designed to smear the internet.
Paul's been using the internet since YOU WERE A SPERM. He knows how this stuff works.
Just like he has a team of 125 people preparing a huge Internet smear campaign right now. Not a smear campaign on the internet, but a campaign designed to smear the internet.
Fixed
Clearly we all Have A Lot To Learn.
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GonmunHe keeps kickin' me inthe dickRegistered Userregular
Paul's been using the internet since YOU WERE A SPERM. He knows how this stuff works.
Just like he has a team of 125 people preparing a huge Internet smear campaign right now. Not a smear campaign on the internet, but a campaign designed to smear the internet.
Fixed
Clearly we all Have A Lot To Learn.
I fixed my original correction to ensure nothing was misquoted.
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I'll say one thing about Paul that's good... He might be stupid, but he's not stupid stupid... He's at least got a rudimentary fundamental level of understanding of business because he's chosen his interviews well. The audio interview was obviously a friend giving him positive spin, and he knows he's finished in the gaming industry so he picked Forbes and MSNBC as his interview sites, which paint him in a semi positive light should he try to market his services elsewhere, by companies that won't bother to look at his association with the gaming industry.
I think it's a moot point, but I'll hand it to him for being clever there.
It's so rare to see people's ineptness actually come back to bite them in the ass in the business world with regards to marketing. You usually have to go so far, be so stupid to not be able to explain away your own foolish decisions in something that is supposed to appeal to people in a subjective manner. Personally, I'm just glad that somebody is actually being held responsible for their clearly terrible approach to doing business. That soapbox Mike has is substantial, and it's always great to see when he uses it for good (on top of child's play of course.)
Seriously, if anyone's going to come out of this ahead it's Chiullan. From his professional attitude in his AMA on Reddit and his interactions elsewhere, even if he can't save N-Control I have no doubt there are going to be a lot of people looking to hire his services.
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RhalloTonnyOf the BrownlandsRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
After the past few pages questioning whether Dave or Mike are legally or morally able to do what they did, I'll go line by line. Since I think it's pretty clear that Paul's actions are mostly wrong on all accounts, plus have been discussed to death, I'll skip over almost all of Paul's individual actions.
1. Was Paul the one who first "threw punches" at Dave? Yes. "Big boy hat," etc.
2. Was Dave the first one to really turn up the heat/get quite angry? Yes.
3. Was Dave legally allowed to escalate? Yes, of course. It's not illegal to throw a (perfectly understandable) fit when being jerked around by someone that has your money and is withholding product.
4. Was Dave morally allowed to do this? Depends, but most likely. It really just depends on how strict your code of conduct for other people. Generally it's barely looked down on to lose one's temper, and more so if insults are fired. But certainly not outlawed by the moral police.
5. Was Dave legally able to send copies of his series of e-mails with Paul? Yes, a thousand times yes.
6. Was Dave morally allowed to send copies of his series of e-mails with Paul? Debatable, perspective, etc, but almost everyone would say yes, it isn't considered an especially shitty thing to do.
7. Did Dave intend to ruin this man's life? We'll never know, but I'll venture to guess probably not. He probably just wanted his controller, and/or at worse get Paul reprimanded. Dave didn't make any of this public until a customer service rep started puffing out his chest with antagonistic behavior- taunting, insulting, threatening a customer.
8. Did Mike throw the "first punch" toward Paul? Barely. He could have e-mailed Paul privately, explained the situation, or he could have not gotten involved at all- any number of things, but he did bait Paul. Personally, I'm fine with that, but I'll admit, it was getting involved, even if it was just a cc on an e-mail.
9. Was Mike legally able to post copies of the e-mail and Paul's public information? Yes.
10. Was Mike morally able to post copies of the e-mail and Paul's public information? Kind of. This is the real sticking point for most people, I think. This comes down to intent, which as follows.
11. Did Mike intend for the internet horde to swarm on a bully? Oh God, of course, yes.
12. Did Mike intend to ruin this man's life? We'll never know, but I'm almost positive that, no Mike didn't/doesn't want Paul's family threatened or in danger.
13. Did Mike know it was a possibility? Probably- it's well established that there are jackasses of all degrees on the internet. However, the chances of violence happening are probably astronomically low.
So, was Mike morally able to post the e-mail chain and direct viewers to this man? I think he was, but honestly, if we really get into detail, I'm not so sure. If a lunatic went and shot Paul's wife, would you still say Mike was completely in the clear? Or would you say that Mike had nothing to do with it, because after all, he (much like any of us) can't be responsible for the hurtful actions of other people? If I call the cops on a drug-dealing neighbor, am I morally responsible for the drug-dealing neighbor getting kicked out of his apartment? Am I morally responsible for the drug-dealing neighbor beating his wife because he was frustrated at having to find a new place to live? If I tell a friend that his wife is cheating on him, am I responsible for his acts of violence against her?
As an individual nobody, am I obligated to restrain myself out of fear of how other people might make bizarre and damaging or violent behavior? If I have a website as popular as PA, does the same standard apply?
I don't know what you're looking for. This is just word of mouth. I guess if you don't like that customers can go "hey don't deal with this guy, he's a stooge" and people digging around and finding out that yes, you (Paul if you're not him, which I think you are) are a stooge and you've been a stooge for pretty much your entire public career, then, well, uh, don't do sales or customer service or PR.
Word of mouth isn't always a good thing.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I don't know what you're looking for. This is just word of mouth. I guess if you don't like that customers can go "hey don't deal with this guy, he's a stooge" and people digging around and finding out that yes, you (Paul if you're not him, which I think you are) are a stooge and you've been a stooge for pretty much your entire public career, then, well, uh, don't do sales or customer service or PR.
Word of mouth isn't always a good thing.
Right. If you are doing something shitty, and word of mouth gets around that you are doing something shitty, it is a bad thing for you. I get that.
It is a net positive when it saves a bunch of people from having to do business with you.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
If I shopped at wal-mart and the cashier made snide jokes about my choice of toothpaste I sure as hell would shit in their cheerios and get them fired and probably ruin their ability to hold down a job as a cashier pretty much for the next 10 years.
If I get crappy service, I'm going to say so. "Bananawasps has terrible service, and their food was cold." I'm going to tell this to my friend, and everybody who asks me. If they were to insult me as Paul did, I would write a review, send it to the editor, call a news program. This is all standard practice.
Posts
I believe that this situation has been defused in N-Control's favor.
I mean I wish someone he trusted would help him through this and point him in the right direction, but I just don't see that happening.
Wow .. just wow .. "He can tell anyone he wants about this abusive service he got .. he just can't send out concrete proof of it happening, that's over the line".
Without a paper trail and a way to prove that this outlandishly ridiculous event occurred it could all be hearsay and slander ... hell yeah I'm going to include the original documents if I'm going to call someone's douchebaggery out. How does that not make sense to you?
I mean not currently it hasn't. Right now N-Control is losing pretty heavy potential dollars from this by not having a website online for people to buy their product who want to.
Although I'm sure right now anyone who reads the story is also hopefully reading between the lines about the fact that the controllers are also on a serious backorder status.
Or understanding what the phrase "if this isn't blank then i don't know what is" is...
No no, I didn't type that with clarity. The last I read about it an N-Control rep had said that Paul gave up all that shit.
Typical dudebro attitudes though. Might be side-effect of unmanaged steroid use to curtail bitch-tits.
God I feel bad just even parroting information he's posted.
Considering what a monumental task that is, it really says something that this guy has a chance of fixing a lot of it.
Can anyone verify if that was an actual tweet that happened?
And he does it with such goddamn fucking panache.
That's not him and never was.
Yes, but it was by someone else. Not Paul. He was @ oceanstratagy at the time.
that was a fake twitter account.
The real one at the time was @oceanstratagy, but that's since changed
...they'll be buds.
#happythoughts
Although just to be perfectly clear the amazing new PR guy stated for the record just to be safe that Paul has never had any access to customer CC information, nor has Ocean Marketing. All purchases were done securely through Amazon and Google Checkout.
What I can't get over is how ghost says he can happily tell whoever he likes, then immediately says that it doesn't excuse him for choosing to pass on what was sent to him. So apparantly he can talk about it, he just can't show it.
And as far as the topic as to why Gabe was brought into it was because Paul of all people started dropping names and cons and PAX happened to be one. It's not out of place to let someone know that something that they've created and run is being referred to.
Blaming Mike is ridiculous.
How dense can one human being possibly be?
That was an anon troll that registered an account, and "borrowed" paul's pictures and background .. NOT Paul, though Paul has said plenty directly from his mouth that is nearly as bad.
@oceandeepsea is his current account. He claims he changed it twice to avoid the spam and hate, but realized that wasn't doing any good, and instead of just leaving twitter he settled on the last one and has stated that he has no plans to change it again.
Although personally I think the guy still has OceanStratagy, and possibly Oceanstreatagy as a way to vent without being caught, and possibly possibly OceanMarketting still since it's still the twitter feed showing up on the Ocean Marketing website.
Unless Paul doesn't know how to change that since he's not really a PR guy and website designer.
Paul's been using the internet since he was 14. He knows how this stuff works.
Just like he has a team of 125 people preparing a huge Internet smear campaign right now. Not a smear campaign on the internet, but a campaign designed to smear the internet.
yeah .. i was amazed at the same .. which is why i made this comic to highlight Paul's Shallowness
Fixed
Clearly we all Have A Lot To Learn.
I fixed my original correction to ensure nothing was misquoted.
I think it's a moot point, but I'll hand it to him for being clever there.
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
1. Was Paul the one who first "threw punches" at Dave? Yes. "Big boy hat," etc.
2. Was Dave the first one to really turn up the heat/get quite angry? Yes.
3. Was Dave legally allowed to escalate? Yes, of course. It's not illegal to throw a (perfectly understandable) fit when being jerked around by someone that has your money and is withholding product.
4. Was Dave morally allowed to do this? Depends, but most likely. It really just depends on how strict your code of conduct for other people. Generally it's barely looked down on to lose one's temper, and more so if insults are fired. But certainly not outlawed by the moral police.
5. Was Dave legally able to send copies of his series of e-mails with Paul? Yes, a thousand times yes.
6. Was Dave morally allowed to send copies of his series of e-mails with Paul? Debatable, perspective, etc, but almost everyone would say yes, it isn't considered an especially shitty thing to do.
7. Did Dave intend to ruin this man's life? We'll never know, but I'll venture to guess probably not. He probably just wanted his controller, and/or at worse get Paul reprimanded. Dave didn't make any of this public until a customer service rep started puffing out his chest with antagonistic behavior- taunting, insulting, threatening a customer.
8. Did Mike throw the "first punch" toward Paul? Barely. He could have e-mailed Paul privately, explained the situation, or he could have not gotten involved at all- any number of things, but he did bait Paul. Personally, I'm fine with that, but I'll admit, it was getting involved, even if it was just a cc on an e-mail.
9. Was Mike legally able to post copies of the e-mail and Paul's public information? Yes.
10. Was Mike morally able to post copies of the e-mail and Paul's public information? Kind of. This is the real sticking point for most people, I think. This comes down to intent, which as follows.
11. Did Mike intend for the internet horde to swarm on a bully? Oh God, of course, yes.
12. Did Mike intend to ruin this man's life? We'll never know, but I'm almost positive that, no Mike didn't/doesn't want Paul's family threatened or in danger.
13. Did Mike know it was a possibility? Probably- it's well established that there are jackasses of all degrees on the internet. However, the chances of violence happening are probably astronomically low.
So, was Mike morally able to post the e-mail chain and direct viewers to this man? I think he was, but honestly, if we really get into detail, I'm not so sure. If a lunatic went and shot Paul's wife, would you still say Mike was completely in the clear? Or would you say that Mike had nothing to do with it, because after all, he (much like any of us) can't be responsible for the hurtful actions of other people? If I call the cops on a drug-dealing neighbor, am I morally responsible for the drug-dealing neighbor getting kicked out of his apartment? Am I morally responsible for the drug-dealing neighbor beating his wife because he was frustrated at having to find a new place to live? If I tell a friend that his wife is cheating on him, am I responsible for his acts of violence against her?
As an individual nobody, am I obligated to restrain myself out of fear of how other people might make bizarre and damaging or violent behavior? If I have a website as popular as PA, does the same standard apply?
It is a net positive when it saves a bunch of people from having to do business with you.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
This is precisely what Dave did. End of story.
So telling people that you were treated badly is fine, but showing proof of it is not?