I like pvz.
The most satisfying thing pvt is doing the feedback trap.
Place a templar at each drop location and let the terran scout you are moving out.
Step 2 is having your different templars on hotkeys and watch the minimap as you walk out, they always fall for it.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
its just extremely boring and stupid for both players
Doesn't that apply to basically every protoss matchup in SC2?
pretty much.
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marty_0001I am a fileand you put documents in meRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
I just lost a PvT
I thought that banshees, marines and vikings was a super weird combination, but I just assumed the banshees were for some heavy harass and the vikings were for protecting against anticipated colossi.
Nope! He was cleverer than I thought. After losing two stalker armies, which I expected would eat the banshees up, it turns out his raven was spotting for my observers while the vikings automatically took them out. Then the cloaked banshees were free to tear me apart. Did not expect that! It was an interesting change from MMM.
Occasionally I have been attacked by marine/tank/a thor or two but it never works.
edit: oh and he turreted most of his main so I didn't get an observer in to see he was building ravens. Cheeky!
Do tell, what Tier 3 Terran units do you believe he should be building? Thors or Battlecruisers?
Don't be fucking obtuse. Literally nothing but MMM ever is stupid as shit. There are a positive wealth of options for Terran to choose from, but oh hey you don't really need them because m2 s m2 s m2 s m2 s t m2 s m2 s m2 s m2 s
this is kinda true, the other tier 1 armies, are either all gateway units, or sling/ling/bane/roach. gateway units can be countered by a much larger mass of units as they're ineffective at killing off large quantities of units (hence reliance on collosus & storms), and zerg tier 1 is countered by armored units, units that do extra damage to armored units, units that don't let lings close enough to get a surround, or things that fly.
a mass of MMM? good luck getting close enough to do any damage, no matter the tier. Infestors + sling/bane surrounds, yeh, it works but is far higher on the tech ladder, and requires pretty good infestor control to not accidentally the whole festors to stimmed marines. So, maybe if you survive to hive/festors/broods you have a shot, but it again required pretty immaculate control compared to Stim-A-Moving them towards the units that are deal damage.
Mind you, statisticaly TvZ is my best matchup, as gathered by SC2Gears. My main goal is to keep the marine count down. Still no cure for thor/hellion, although i am beginning to come around to the idea of "build a roach warren early, they're cheap, you don't need to actually make roaches, but when you need to you don't want to wait until the warren builds"
I'd describe PvZ as most "volatile", and not any of the mirror matches. There are clear windows of dominance for each side during any game, and it comes down to who can exploit their hole better.
It looks like sling/roach (majority of army)/hydra (insurance purposes, at least get the den, it's cheap and comes in handy vs air play and blink stalker all ins), Infestor, (corruptor) Brood is the standard tech progression against protoss. Roach/Ling wins until mass blink stalkers, or collosus are out (or storm, but that's a long time away). Hydras take care of gateway & air armies completely, and you hope to have infestors or corruptors when heavy collosus play comes out.
ZvZ has been best described by our friend @Callow "you're in the thunderdome, 6 inches from each other, with a dazzling array of weaponry on the walls, but you're both starting with chopsticks". It's not that its indescipherable, its that its very stressful, and a small mistake like "i made 5 drones that should have been roaches" will literally cost you the game.
anyway - i think that i'm going to roll random on my smurf. mostly for exploration of the game, any suggestions as to keyboard layouts, or "go with the grid" is best here?
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If you actually legitimately lose to a Terran who amoves his stimmed Bio and wins, either you made a fundamental error earlier in the game and that is the real reason you lost, or your opponent outclasses you by a lot.
I honestly don't know where this "amove teran lolz" idea comes from. If there is one race in this game that suffers the most loss of unit performance when amoving, it's Terran yo.
There's something about getting the top right spawn on Korhal. It always makes me feel like the map is upside-down. It really throws me off in the beginning.
I think Stephano needs better people to practice against. I think he'd be unstoppable if he practiced against korean pros instead of just stomping on people on ladder
Didn't he go to Korea for a bit? I think he said he didn't enjoy the team house environment.
This may all be my imagination, can't find anything on Liquipedia about it.
He should play on the Korean ladder from his home in France. Team houses in Korea probably do suck-- especially for someone like Stephano who doesn't take the game as serious as everyone else does.
I think Stephano needs better people to practice against. I think he'd be unstoppable if he practiced against korean pros instead of just stomping on people on ladder
I've been saying for awhile now that the reason Stephano struggles against the top tier Korean pros is because he doesn't have any good practice partners.
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jaziekBad at everythingAnd mad about it.Registered Userregular
edited April 2012
demoted to plat this season
this is actually it. Fuck this game, fuck this life, I'm done.
this is actually it. Fuck this game, fuck this life, I'm done.
don't lose hope jaziek. Perhaps we can watch a game or two and remind you of some basics and habits you've forgotten since you've been diamond. I bet it's just a couple little things that you're forgetting to do.
Developer update for HotS. Shredder and replicant are out, warhound is on the verge of being cut. Terran might be getting an anti-air spider mine. Viper gets an AoE blind ability and can recharge energy by feeding on minerals.
We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
this is actually it. Fuck this game, fuck this life, I'm done.
Sucks to be you... Oh wait, I'm plat. Crap.
The only solution is harakiri.
Seriously? Can't I just change my name, have radical reconstructive surgery, and move to some third world country that doesn't have the internet? Harakiri seems like overkill.
We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
...
Isn't that Nukes?
I don't get this, TvT is already a very dynamic match-up.
I hate to be the "You should quit this game." kind of guy.
But maybe it is the right decision, for you specifically it seems to stress you out too much for something you do to I assume have fun and relax.
We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
...
Isn't that Nukes?
I don't get this, TvT is already a very dynamic match-up.
TvT is my least favorite matchup to watch. So slow.
Oh, that post doesn't quote the entire thing. Overseers are back, the tempest has turned into a 'very long ranged aerial siege weapon that can strike both air and ground targets', and Zerg might be getting different types of nyduses.
I am listening to When I'm Grandmaster while writing this. If you want the full experience, open up a tab in your browser and listen to this while reading.
We are currently working nonstop on StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm (and Blizzard DOTA) and hope to be able to get Heart of the Swarm out to the public to see sometime in the near future. While we believe we have some great things lined up for the single-player campaign, I wanted to take some time to give you an update on the recent changes and what cool things we have in store for multiplayer.
Terrans
Terrans have undergone significant changes since we talked about them at BlizzCon. We have not kept the shredder, and even the warhound is in contention. The shredder was very confusing for players as well as being something that was easily used to kill a large number of workers with little to no warning. It was rarely used for its intended role of map control. The warhound still feels a little too much like a small thor, which is just not new enough to give terran players new strategies. We are still experimenting with a wide range of units, particularly from the factory, which we think is a little light on options. We have had a great deal of trouble with the terrans largely because they are such a flexible and effective race in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. We want to provide terran players with new strategies, however, so we will continue to work on them.
If we keep the Thor, we are currently experimenting with an anti-air spider mine that would give the terrans a way to get some factory-built anti-air into small places that a Thor has trouble reaching (like near your minerals). Whether this is meaningful, considering terrans have marines, is still in question. We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
Protoss
Protoss have gone through some changes since BlizzCon as well. The oracle is still in and functioning as a protoss raider (as intended) that can give the protoss some reach in the mid-game to disrupt enemy plans. The replicant has been cut. He was causing enemy players to not build certain unit types and was actually removing diversity from the game instead of adding diversity.
The tempest was a powerful splash anti-air capital ship at BlizzCon. With the addition of the range upgrade on phoenix in Wings of Liberty we no longer feel like a splash anti-air weapon is necessary on the protoss, but we would still like to give the protoss some additional firepower in the air. The tempest is currently a very long-ranged aerial siege weapon that can strike both air and ground targets. This gives the protoss army some real reach to force an engagement on their terms in the end-game.
We’re also experimenting with some nexus abilities. One example is a mass recall that allows the protoss to be more aggressive. They can move out onto the map with their slower sentry/zealot force and, if things don’t work out, recall the force back to their base if and when things go wrong.
Zerg
Zerg are the most stable and largely unchanged since BlizzCon. The swarm host is still serving well as a zerg siege unit that can burrow and pressure the enemy from a distance (in a very zergy way), but the viper has some slightly different new abilities. In addition to Abduct, the viper also has the ability to blind biological units in an area of effect. Blinded units have their range reduced to 1. This is obviously effective against terran infantry as well as zerg roach and hydra armies. The viper can also regain energy by feeding off of minerals. This locks up the mineral patch and prevents it from being harvested, so you want to use this ability away from your base.
We have decided to keep the overseer and make the viper a pure caster. We will be taking a look at the overseer to see what we can do to make his abilities more interesting.
We are also trying some additional abilities on the nydus network to allow you to spawn different types of nydus worms. The most interesting worms have been a worm that can spew creep across several screens to create a zerg assault highway, as well as a worm that attacks only enemy buildings, meant to be used as a ground-based zerg base raider.
We have some more work to do before we’re ready to begin beta testing Heart of the Swarm. We know that everybody wants a date for when they can play, and we know how important it is to get this out in front of the community as soon as possible. We’re working on it.
Possible nydus worm changes? Hell yes.
EDIT woops, already linked. was still a page back for some reason.
We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
...
Isn't that Nukes?
I don't get this, TvT is already a very dynamic match-up.
For me it's usually Marine/Tank or you die.
But that might be because I'm bad.
EDIT: Also, I'm sad the Shredder is out. I liked the idea.
LoserForHireX on
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
...
Isn't that Nukes?
I don't get this, TvT is already a very dynamic match-up.
It's probably intended for lower level play. There's actually not that much moving around in my TvTs, neither of us has the multi-tasking to properly control Marine/Tank outside of setting up siege lines and slow pushing with Vikings and Scan.
I do find it funny that they're basically saying "Long-range units lead to games that are too static, so we're adding more long-range units to mix it up".
Posts
Doesn't that apply to basically every protoss matchup in SC2?
pvz can be fun if you're not too intent on winning, otherwise you have to play boring crap
toss is dumb and boring
The most satisfying thing pvt is doing the feedback trap.
Place a templar at each drop location and let the terran scout you are moving out.
Step 2 is having your different templars on hotkeys and watch the minimap as you walk out, they always fall for it.
pretty much.
I thought that banshees, marines and vikings was a super weird combination, but I just assumed the banshees were for some heavy harass and the vikings were for protecting against anticipated colossi.
Nope! He was cleverer than I thought. After losing two stalker armies, which I expected would eat the banshees up, it turns out his raven was spotting for my observers while the vikings automatically took them out. Then the cloaked banshees were free to tear me apart. Did not expect that! It was an interesting change from MMM.
Occasionally I have been attacked by marine/tank/a thor or two but it never works.
edit: oh and he turreted most of his main so I didn't get an observer in to see he was building ravens. Cheeky!
B.net: Kusanku
All these ladder opponents
They're all just Squid, with his many accounts, searching the ladder every time I come online
Devious!
much like fin just did, which makes me so happy
this is kinda true, the other tier 1 armies, are either all gateway units, or sling/ling/bane/roach. gateway units can be countered by a much larger mass of units as they're ineffective at killing off large quantities of units (hence reliance on collosus & storms), and zerg tier 1 is countered by armored units, units that do extra damage to armored units, units that don't let lings close enough to get a surround, or things that fly.
a mass of MMM? good luck getting close enough to do any damage, no matter the tier. Infestors + sling/bane surrounds, yeh, it works but is far higher on the tech ladder, and requires pretty good infestor control to not accidentally the whole festors to stimmed marines. So, maybe if you survive to hive/festors/broods you have a shot, but it again required pretty immaculate control compared to Stim-A-Moving them towards the units that are deal damage.
Mind you, statisticaly TvZ is my best matchup, as gathered by SC2Gears. My main goal is to keep the marine count down. Still no cure for thor/hellion, although i am beginning to come around to the idea of "build a roach warren early, they're cheap, you don't need to actually make roaches, but when you need to you don't want to wait until the warren builds"
I'd describe PvZ as most "volatile", and not any of the mirror matches. There are clear windows of dominance for each side during any game, and it comes down to who can exploit their hole better.
It looks like sling/roach (majority of army)/hydra (insurance purposes, at least get the den, it's cheap and comes in handy vs air play and blink stalker all ins), Infestor, (corruptor) Brood is the standard tech progression against protoss. Roach/Ling wins until mass blink stalkers, or collosus are out (or storm, but that's a long time away). Hydras take care of gateway & air armies completely, and you hope to have infestors or corruptors when heavy collosus play comes out.
ZvZ has been best described by our friend @Callow "you're in the thunderdome, 6 inches from each other, with a dazzling array of weaponry on the walls, but you're both starting with chopsticks". It's not that its indescipherable, its that its very stressful, and a small mistake like "i made 5 drones that should have been roaches" will literally cost you the game.
anyway - i think that i'm going to roll random on my smurf. mostly for exploration of the game, any suggestions as to keyboard layouts, or "go with the grid" is best here?
Joe's Stream.
I honestly don't know where this "amove teran lolz" idea comes from. If there is one race in this game that suffers the most loss of unit performance when amoving, it's Terran yo.
B.net: Kusanku
This may all be my imagination, can't find anything on Liquipedia about it.
He should play on the Korean ladder from his home in France. Team houses in Korea probably do suck-- especially for someone like Stephano who doesn't take the game as serious as everyone else does.
B.net: Kusanku
I've been saying for awhile now that the reason Stephano struggles against the top tier Korean pros is because he doesn't have any good practice partners.
this is actually it. Fuck this game, fuck this life, I'm done.
don't lose hope jaziek. Perhaps we can watch a game or two and remind you of some basics and habits you've forgotten since you've been diamond. I bet it's just a couple little things that you're forgetting to do.
B.net: Kusanku
Steam ID
Sucks to be you... Oh wait, I'm plat. Crap.
The only solution is harakiri.
Developer update for HotS. Shredder and replicant are out, warhound is on the verge of being cut. Terran might be getting an anti-air spider mine. Viper gets an AoE blind ability and can recharge energy by feeding on minerals.
Isn't that Nukes?
Seriously? Can't I just change my name, have radical reconstructive surgery, and move to some third world country that doesn't have the internet? Harakiri seems like overkill.
Edit: Shredder is out? I'm so happy.
I don't get this, TvT is already a very dynamic match-up.
But maybe it is the right decision, for you specifically it seems to stress you out too much for something you do to I assume have fun and relax.
TvT is my least favorite matchup to watch. So slow.
We are currently working nonstop on StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm (and Blizzard DOTA) and hope to be able to get Heart of the Swarm out to the public to see sometime in the near future. While we believe we have some great things lined up for the single-player campaign, I wanted to take some time to give you an update on the recent changes and what cool things we have in store for multiplayer.
Terrans
Terrans have undergone significant changes since we talked about them at BlizzCon. We have not kept the shredder, and even the warhound is in contention. The shredder was very confusing for players as well as being something that was easily used to kill a large number of workers with little to no warning. It was rarely used for its intended role of map control. The warhound still feels a little too much like a small thor, which is just not new enough to give terran players new strategies. We are still experimenting with a wide range of units, particularly from the factory, which we think is a little light on options. We have had a great deal of trouble with the terrans largely because they are such a flexible and effective race in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. We want to provide terran players with new strategies, however, so we will continue to work on them.
If we keep the Thor, we are currently experimenting with an anti-air spider mine that would give the terrans a way to get some factory-built anti-air into small places that a Thor has trouble reaching (like near your minerals). Whether this is meaningful, considering terrans have marines, is still in question. We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
Protoss
Protoss have gone through some changes since BlizzCon as well. The oracle is still in and functioning as a protoss raider (as intended) that can give the protoss some reach in the mid-game to disrupt enemy plans. The replicant has been cut. He was causing enemy players to not build certain unit types and was actually removing diversity from the game instead of adding diversity.
The tempest was a powerful splash anti-air capital ship at BlizzCon. With the addition of the range upgrade on phoenix in Wings of Liberty we no longer feel like a splash anti-air weapon is necessary on the protoss, but we would still like to give the protoss some additional firepower in the air. The tempest is currently a very long-ranged aerial siege weapon that can strike both air and ground targets. This gives the protoss army some real reach to force an engagement on their terms in the end-game.
We’re also experimenting with some nexus abilities. One example is a mass recall that allows the protoss to be more aggressive. They can move out onto the map with their slower sentry/zealot force and, if things don’t work out, recall the force back to their base if and when things go wrong.
Zerg
Zerg are the most stable and largely unchanged since BlizzCon. The swarm host is still serving well as a zerg siege unit that can burrow and pressure the enemy from a distance (in a very zergy way), but the viper has some slightly different new abilities. In addition to Abduct, the viper also has the ability to blind biological units in an area of effect. Blinded units have their range reduced to 1. This is obviously effective against terran infantry as well as zerg roach and hydra armies. The viper can also regain energy by feeding off of minerals. This locks up the mineral patch and prevents it from being harvested, so you want to use this ability away from your base.
We have decided to keep the overseer and make the viper a pure caster. We will be taking a look at the overseer to see what we can do to make his abilities more interesting.
We are also trying some additional abilities on the nydus network to allow you to spawn different types of nydus worms. The most interesting worms have been a worm that can spew creep across several screens to create a zerg assault highway, as well as a worm that attacks only enemy buildings, meant to be used as a ground-based zerg base raider.
We have some more work to do before we’re ready to begin beta testing Heart of the Swarm. We know that everybody wants a date for when they can play, and we know how important it is to get this out in front of the community as soon as possible. We’re working on it.
Possible nydus worm changes? Hell yes.
EDIT woops, already linked. was still a page back for some reason.
For me it's usually Marine/Tank or you die.
But that might be because I'm bad.
EDIT: Also, I'm sad the Shredder is out. I liked the idea.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I would like some, sometime.
30, 40, 50 supply deficit, no worries bro.
It's probably intended for lower level play. There's actually not that much moving around in my TvTs, neither of us has the multi-tasking to properly control Marine/Tank outside of setting up siege lines and slow pushing with Vikings and Scan.
I do find it funny that they're basically saying "Long-range units lead to games that are too static, so we're adding more long-range units to mix it up".