Oh no question, that is the first assumption from which all later reasoning must spring. I TOTALLY believe pharmaceuticals are potentially harmful to childhood development. Unequivocally harmful. Literally a last resort for behavioral disorders that respond to nothing else. I feel strongly about so little, but I feel strongly about this.
Why?
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Woo! Work has been crazy today. I basically had to take on my boss and win, and then run with that victory by essentially uniting the nations with my new display of strength. I have subsequently formulated a plan, got a bunch of disparate groups on board with it, and am going to be able to run with it for the next 6 months. I feel strong!
silas you should be able to buy pre-build systems relatively cheaply from a wide range of places
are you in the states?
I am in the states. It sounds like there are a lot of pre-built options I didn't know about. I had previously built my PCs, but I just don't want to bother this time if I can help it.
The most important thing is you need to decide either:
a) a budget
or
b) a min-spec for the machine
If you don't nail down one of those variables there is no real answer to where to get your PC.
Good to know. I'm hoping to keep it under $1600.
How many monitors and what size?
Also, do you have anything you'll be reusing from your current machine? Mouse, keyboard, monitors, DVD drive, hard drives, windows license etc... Those can add up
Good point. I think I could reuse my 2 monitors, mouse, keyboard, and DVD drive. I'd probably go with a new hard drive and windows license.
And have already discussed the idea that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overmedicated. Which I am on board with, quite obviously.
Do you deny that ADHD is sometimes correctly diagnosed, and correctly medicated?
Overreach much? You do realize that the word "overdiagnosed" implies BOTH that there are cases in which it is correctly diagnosed AND, truer to the meaning of the word, cases in which it is not?
I just want to be sure. Given your position, I'm hesitant to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And have already discussed the idea that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overmedicated. Which I am on board with, quite obviously.
Do you deny that ADHD is sometimes correctly diagnosed, and correctly medicated?
Overreach much? You do realize that the word "overdiagnosed" implies BOTH that there are cases in which it is correctly diagnosed AND, truer to the meaning of the word, cases in which it is not?
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
This is the theory that has allowed the pharmaceutical industry to flourish by medicating children. We are ultimately talking about a set of behavioral patterns here that can be endemic to many different things, including poor parenting. We're not talking about brain chemistry and function.
I think you're starting from an assumption that pharmaceuticals are bad.
If pharmaceuticals are good or value-neutral, then allowing the pharmaceutical industry to flourish isn't really a scary thing.
Oh no question, that is the first assumption from which all later reasoning must spring. I TOTALLY believe pharmaceuticals are potentially harmful to childhood development. Unequivocally harmful. Literally a last resort for behavioral disorders that respond to nothing else. I feel strongly about so little, but I feel strongly about this.
Form of Monkey, how much research (even casually) have you done about ADD/ADHD?
I'm not asking this snarkily, I legitimately want to know. You should be aware that there are a number of us in [chat] who are on medication for ADD/ADHD, including some who have been on it since childhood, and in many cases it was, to use your words, unequivocally beneficial.
I realize this is counter to the medicate-and-forget-it philosophy championed by others, but I'm not going to be convinced otherwise. It would have to be one hell of a pitch.
What I am saying to you is that if any of you were my child, first of all, congratulations on having the most awesome dad ever, and by the way Father's Day is coming up, hintety hint hint.
Then, rest assured that you'd be on drugs only as a last resort and after multiple medical opinions and an extensive review. That I love you and feel so strongly that I would be hurting you and doing wrong by you if I were to treat your love of caffeinated drinks with Ritalin.
I feel like this is a poor way to begin a discussion on this topic.
Feel whatever you want, but we've been in the midst of talking about this already across multiple pages, not beginning it. And have already discussed the idea that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overmedicated. Which I am on board with, quite obviously.
I was talking specifically about calling it a "medicate and forget it" philosophy, which is a glib misrepresentation of the actual philosophy that someone like Feral seems to hold.
Also I think the problems of "overdiagnosis" and "overmedication", while certainly linked, are separate issues. Essentially, just because ADD is overdiagnosed doesn't mean that "medication first" as a general philosophy is bad.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Ritalin is a strong drug for a 3 year-old to take.
They do make less insane drugs for younger populations... but seriously, parents should accept the fact that super young kids and toddlers can be hyperactive shitheels, and they should wait until kindergarten at least before pharmaceutical treatments considered.
And this is coming from someone who genuinely NEEDED medication at one point in my life for it.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
So, I figured let's kick this all the way back to basics, on the off hand that it's something in the case shorting the mobo. So, I have the mobo sitting outside of the case, on an anti-static bag. I pulled the RAM out, too. So, the only components we have are the processor, processor fan, and power supply. It should at least boot, correct? Then give me a POST error re: the RAM, right?
Same goddamn thing. I even found an on-board power switch, so the power switch isn't even wired to the board.
This is the theory that has allowed the pharmaceutical industry to flourish by medicating children. We are ultimately talking about a set of behavioral patterns here that can be endemic to many different things, including poor parenting. We're not talking about brain chemistry and function.
I think you're starting from an assumption that pharmaceuticals are bad.
If pharmaceuticals are good or value-neutral, then allowing the pharmaceutical industry to flourish isn't really a scary thing.
Oh no question, that is the first assumption from which all later reasoning must spring. I TOTALLY believe pharmaceuticals are potentially harmful to childhood development. Unequivocally harmful. Literally a last resort for behavioral disorders that respond to nothing else. I feel strongly about so little, but I feel strongly about this.
Form of Monkey, how much research (even casually) have you done about ADD/ADHD?
I'm not asking this snarkily, I legitimately want to know. You should be aware that there are a number of us in [chat] who are on medication for ADD/ADHD, including some who have been on it since childhood, and in many cases it was, to use your words, unequivocally beneficial.
I realize this is counter to the medicate-and-forget-it philosophy championed by others, but I'm not going to be convinced otherwise. It would have to be one hell of a pitch.
What I am saying to you is that if any of you were my child, first of all, congratulations on having the most awesome dad ever, and by the way Father's Day is coming up, hintety hint hint.
Then, rest assured that you'd be on drugs only as a last resort and after multiple medical opinions and an extensive review. That I love you and feel so strongly that I would be hurting you and doing wrong by you if I were to treat your love of caffeinated drinks with Ritalin.
I feel like this is a poor way to begin a discussion on this topic.
Feel whatever you want, but we've been in the midst of talking about this already across multiple pages, not beginning it. And have already discussed the idea that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overmedicated. Which I am on board with, quite obviously.
I was talking specifically about calling it a "medicate and forget it" philosophy, which is a glib misrepresentation of the actual philosophy that someone like Feral seems to hold.
Also I think the problems of "overdiagnosis" and "overmedication", while certainly linked, are separate issues. Essentially, just because ADD is overdiagnosed doesn't mean that "medication first" as a general philosophy is bad.
Feral sees it as a first and best option. I see it as a last resort. We have a difference of opinion on the subject, but we know where we both stand.
Your questions read like you're unsure where either of us stands, even though we've been chatting about this for pages now.
So, I figured let's kick this all the way back to basics, on the off hand that it's something in the case shorting the mobo. So, I have the mobo sitting outside of the case, on an anti-static bag. I pulled the RAM out, too. So, the only components we have are the processor, processor fan, and power supply. It should at least boot, correct? Then give me a POST error re: the RAM, right?
Same goddamn thing. I even found an on-board power switch, so the power switch isn't even wired to the board.
God fucking dammit.
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
personally, i feel all children should be forced to compete academically with one another and allowed to take whatever drugs they deem gives them a competitive edge
it would make spelling bees a lot more entertaining
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TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
personally, i feel all children should be forced to compete academically with one another and allowed to take whatever drugs they deem gives them a competitive edge
it would make spelling bees a lot more entertaining
I think we need to move to a completely phonetic alphabet and then use spelling bees as a form of punishment.
So, I figured let's kick this all the way back to basics, on the off hand that it's something in the case shorting the mobo. So, I have the mobo sitting outside of the case, on an anti-static bag. I pulled the RAM out, too. So, the only components we have are the processor, processor fan, and power supply. It should at least boot, correct? Then give me a POST error re: the RAM, right?
Same goddamn thing. I even found an on-board power switch, so the power switch isn't even wired to the board.
God fucking dammit.
No I dont think most will post without ram.
Also you want to make sure you are grounding the motherboard.
Also Also hook up the pc speaker, some motherboards will beep to identify the issue.
Others will use LED's to blink or light up in a combination to give more diagnostic information.
Woo! Work has been crazy today. I basically had to take on my boss and win, and then run with that victory by essentially uniting the nations with my new display of strength. I have subsequently formulated a plan, got a bunch of disparate groups on board with it, and am going to be able to run with it for the next 6 months. I feel strong!
silas you should be able to buy pre-build systems relatively cheaply from a wide range of places
are you in the states?
I am in the states. It sounds like there are a lot of pre-built options I didn't know about. I had previously built my PCs, but I just don't want to bother this time if I can help it.
The most important thing is you need to decide either:
a) a budget
or
b) a min-spec for the machine
If you don't nail down one of those variables there is no real answer to where to get your PC.
Good to know. I'm hoping to keep it under $1600.
How many monitors and what size?
Also, do you have anything you'll be reusing from your current machine? Mouse, keyboard, monitors, DVD drive, hard drives, windows license etc... Those can add up
Good point. I think I could reuse my 2 monitors, mouse, keyboard, and DVD drive. I'd probably go with a new hard drive and windows license.
the one on the far right with the extra-good warranty (seriously, it's better than AppleCare - actually covers water damage and such) is $1188 (doesn't inlucd a monitor)
I would think that would be your high-end price for a gaming machine with no monitors.
personally, i feel all children should be forced to compete academically with one another and allowed to take whatever drugs they deem gives them a competitive edge
it would make spelling bees a lot more entertaining
Until one of the kids douses his competition with crazy pills.
Feral sees it as a first and best option. I see it as a last resort. We have a difference of opinion on the subject, but we know where we both stand.
So then given that you know where he stands, would you say that "medicate-and-forget-it" is an accurate description of Feral's position?
You are ascribing a position to Feral that I didn't even ascribe myself, then asking me why I feel that way about Feral. It's not all that clever. Let's see here:
"I realize this is counter to the medicate-and-forget-it philosophy championed by others,"
That group of "others" may include Feral, or it may not. It definitely consists of a group of other people who have a difference of opinion. Which again, may include Feral but probably doesn't.
Do you see how your effort to "nail me" on this is kind of just a waste of time? I have pretty reasonable opinions about this stuff, and you're kind of just testing my patience by barely even parsing this correctly.
Woo! Work has been crazy today. I basically had to take on my boss and win, and then run with that victory by essentially uniting the nations with my new display of strength. I have subsequently formulated a plan, got a bunch of disparate groups on board with it, and am going to be able to run with it for the next 6 months. I feel strong!
silas you should be able to buy pre-build systems relatively cheaply from a wide range of places
are you in the states?
I am in the states. It sounds like there are a lot of pre-built options I didn't know about. I had previously built my PCs, but I just don't want to bother this time if I can help it.
The most important thing is you need to decide either:
a) a budget
or
b) a min-spec for the machine
If you don't nail down one of those variables there is no real answer to where to get your PC.
Good to know. I'm hoping to keep it under $1600.
How many monitors and what size?
Also, do you have anything you'll be reusing from your current machine? Mouse, keyboard, monitors, DVD drive, hard drives, windows license etc... Those can add up
Good point. I think I could reuse my 2 monitors, mouse, keyboard, and DVD drive. I'd probably go with a new hard drive and windows license.
the one on the far right with the extra-good warranty (seriously, it's better than AppleCare - actually covers water damage and such) is $1188 (doesn't inlucd a monitor)
I would think that would be your high-end price for a gaming machine with no monitors.
Feral sees it as a first and best option. I see it as a last resort. We have a difference of opinion on the subject, but we know where we both stand.
So then given that you know where he stands, would you say that "medicate-and-forget-it" is an accurate description of Feral's position?
It's at least a very good strawman.
Not even for a poster who didn't read and thinks he's onto something by focusing less on an issue and more on an introductory clause. Not even in that case.
Yeah, I haven't really clearly elaborated my opinion on this subject today. I have in prior threads on PA, but not in this particular discussion, so I'm not expecting anybody to telepathically understand what I think.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
personally, i feel all children should be forced to compete academically with one another and allowed to take whatever drugs they deem gives them a competitive edge
it would make spelling bees a lot more entertaining
Until one of the kids douses his competition with crazy pills.
Feral sees it as a first and best option. I see it as a last resort. We have a difference of opinion on the subject, but we know where we both stand.
So then given that you know where he stands, would you say that "medicate-and-forget-it" is an accurate description of Feral's position?
You are ascribing a position to Feral that I didn't even ascribe myself, then asking me why I feel that way about Feral. It's not all that clever. Let's see here:
"I realize this is counter to the medicate-and-forget-it philosophy championed by others,"
That group of "others" may include Feral, or it may not. It definitely consists of a group of other people who have a difference of opinion. Which again, may include Feral but probably doesn't.
Why would you even bring it up then? Nobody here is arguing for "medicate and forget it" so why talk about it at all?
I'm not trying to "nail you" on anything, I just feel like that comment wasn't in particularly good faith.
Posts
The man makes a fair point
Actually, no I haven't. *cough*pm*cough*
:winky:
EDIT: Wow, this may be the worst TotP ever. I'm so proud.
Yeah, you really lucked out on this one.
Why?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
eff it
push the loud pedal
drive it like you stole it etc
Good point. I think I could reuse my 2 monitors, mouse, keyboard, and DVD drive. I'd probably go with a new hard drive and windows license.
no!
break it in nice and easy
then drive it hard after 1,000 mi
also I need to get the windows tinted because it's fucking hot
I just want to be sure. Given your position, I'm hesitant to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Overreach much? You do realize that the word "overdiagnosed" implies BOTH that there are cases in which it is correctly diagnosed AND, truer to the meaning of the word, cases in which it is not?
I was talking specifically about calling it a "medicate and forget it" philosophy, which is a glib misrepresentation of the actual philosophy that someone like Feral seems to hold.
Also I think the problems of "overdiagnosis" and "overmedication", while certainly linked, are separate issues. Essentially, just because ADD is overdiagnosed doesn't mean that "medication first" as a general philosophy is bad.
but its not legal in the uk
fuq
must go to states to get adderall
Ritalin is a strong drug for a 3 year-old to take.
And this is coming from someone who genuinely NEEDED medication at one point in my life for it.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
what is the ll
Same goddamn thing. I even found an on-board power switch, so the power switch isn't even wired to the board.
God fucking dammit.
the girls
are on me
Damn
Feral sees it as a first and best option. I see it as a last resort. We have a difference of opinion on the subject, but we know where we both stand.
Your questions read like you're unsure where either of us stands, even though we've been chatting about this for pages now.
So then given that you know where he stands, would you say that "medicate-and-forget-it" is an accurate description of Feral's position?
It's at least a very good strawman.
it would make spelling bees a lot more entertaining
I think we need to move to a completely phonetic alphabet and then use spelling bees as a form of punishment.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
No I dont think most will post without ram.
Also you want to make sure you are grounding the motherboard.
Also Also hook up the pc speaker, some motherboards will beep to identify the issue.
Others will use LED's to blink or light up in a combination to give more diagnostic information.
i forgot that extra power plug to the mobo the tiny one WOOPS
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51/fs
the one on the far right with the extra-good warranty (seriously, it's better than AppleCare - actually covers water damage and such) is $1188 (doesn't inlucd a monitor)
I would think that would be your high-end price for a gaming machine with no monitors.
You can compare it to these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006736 600030537&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=RATING&PageSize=20
try sorting within that list for things like graphics cards / cpu (there's only a couple that I see that have a core i7 for a comparable price).
I said 'first.'
I didn't say 'best.'
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Until one of the kids douses his competition with crazy pills.
You are ascribing a position to Feral that I didn't even ascribe myself, then asking me why I feel that way about Feral. It's not all that clever. Let's see here:
"I realize this is counter to the medicate-and-forget-it philosophy championed by others,"
That group of "others" may include Feral, or it may not. It definitely consists of a group of other people who have a difference of opinion. Which again, may include Feral but probably doesn't.
Do you see how your effort to "nail me" on this is kind of just a waste of time? I have pretty reasonable opinions about this stuff, and you're kind of just testing my patience by barely even parsing this correctly.
Thank you, Riemann. I can definitely run with this and make an informed purchase!
Not even for a poster who didn't read and thinks he's onto something by focusing less on an issue and more on an introductory clause. Not even in that case.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
that's where it starts getting good
Why would you even bring it up then? Nobody here is arguing for "medicate and forget it" so why talk about it at all?
I'm not trying to "nail you" on anything, I just feel like that comment wasn't in particularly good faith.