Fig, you were at Evo? Damnit, I had a set up in my room, could've helped you warm up.
:shakefist:
Oh well, I could have had a setup too with a little research/planning. I don't have a monitor, but our room had a CRT with a composite input on the front. Now I know for next year, which I will almost certainly attend because this weekend was just too much damn fun.
The energy in the hall during Marvel finals was unbelievable, streams just can't do it justice.
EDIT: Question for ya Biz. Picking up Dante is all fine and good, but what is it about Wesker that made you decide to drop him? I mean, your original team seemed solid to me.
Oooooh, are we talking about Wesker?
Seriously, Wesker is dropping off the radar so quickly in Marvel. He's still a really good character, and a lot of people use him, but his tournament performance is going down because:
A) Wesker has trouble fighting the teams that fill the screen with shitloads of hitboxes (Dormammu, Doom assists, Morrigan) that the meta looks like it's shifting towards. Wesker has had next to no new tech discovered for him in ages. He's like Ken during SF4 - a strong character that because of over-saturation (lawl) people know his gimmicks and his shit so well at this point that he's not as much of a threat as say, Vergil. Zero. Dormammu. Viper. Magneto. Etc. Even with the glasses shenanigans he simply can't keep up.
I love Wesker as a character and I love his move set, and I still think he's a very threatening character - but as time goes on and the community discovers more tech? Every upper-tier character that new tech is found for makes Wesker slide down a little more because it's more stuff Wesker can't circumvate. Wesker has no answer to Firebrand unblockables. He can't circumvate Dormammu or Morrigan easily on entry. He doesn't get much off of a TAC. "Dark Wesker" is next to dead as it is so he'll probably go back to being a point character - especially since his OTG assist is helping less and less characters that shape the state of the game - they simply don't need it or they can do it themselves. The only "high-tier" character I can think of that does exceptionally well with an OTG assist is Vergil and he doesn't even really need it to get sword loops going.
I remember playing Biz in the earlier days of Vanilla when he ran... At the time I think it was Zero/Hulk/Wesker, and back then it felt like he was doing so to counter online being arse, and learning how to get the most out of Zero with OTGs. Nowadays Zero can do so much he doesn't need an OTG assist (rather, Zero can self-OTG and catch someone in a Jam Session and go from there). Same with Nova, really. I'd wager that'd be a good reason for moving away from Wesker.
Look at the damage before it gets silly with Hyper combos.
Deadpool ToD on any member of the cast for 2 assists, 1 meter? :O
Looking at it closely, it looks like bolo loop landing onto drones resets the damage scaling to an extent because the damage of Quick Work shoots right back up afterwards. That's insane. So it's fitting for Deadpool.
I am dropping Wesker not because of his dip in power tier (although, I'll take this time to say HAH! I told you all of this MONTHS AGO. NO ONE LISTENED HAHAHAHA). I actually do extremely well with him, still (this is me saying most Weskers suck). Hell, even at Evo he was still getting me wins in casuals (against Kinderparty, even ) and in the pools.
No, I am dropping him because I need help in the neutral game. As the meta shifts, I was having more and more trouble navigating the bullet hell and hitting people with Zero. That and, even if I was able to do it, playing other competent Zero's who had an assist to help their neutral game put me at a disadvantage.
I'd love to keep him, but he really needs to be point nowadays or anchor an entirely different team style.
Last night made me decide I can't use Dante, though. Bold cancelling is too important and I just can't do it reliably given the speed at which you need to input it and the muscles in my hands. Zero's combos, to me, are easy. Even the 920,800 damage one with one meter that Zero / Nova / Dante can pull off that's NOT a lightning loop. Just takes timing and practice.
Dante Bold cancels require speed, so I'll probably move on despite him, on paper, being the best choice for my team. Seriously, if any of you want to try Zero / Nova / Dante, do it, it's an awesome team.
Sooooooooo.....Vergil or Spencer next. No idea which. Might even be a bad idea due to the primary need of a neutral game assist.
I was also pondering Ammy, but I can't do weapon switches either.
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If you put Vergil in the second spot, that gives you the ability to DHC into spiral swords in neutral. Unless you are willing to blow XFC, the only safe way to tag in Spencer is with DHC during a combo, which may not help you at all if you can't get yourself in. Spencer's anti-air grapple assist might help you snag lazy jumps from your opponent, though, which can help you if you can consistently make them want to stay off the ground with stuff like buster canceled teleport.
Ammy's cold star assist is of dubious value in the neutral game, which might further cement the argument against putting Ammy on your team.
I am dropping Wesker not because of his dip in power tier (although, I'll take this time to say HAH! I told you all of this MONTHS AGO. NO ONE LISTENED HAHAHAHA). I actually do extremely well with him, still (this is me saying most Weskers suck). Hell, even at Evo he was still getting me wins in casuals (against Kinderparty, even ) and in the pools.
No, I am dropping him because I need help in the neutral game. As the meta shifts, I was having more and more trouble navigating the bullet hell and hitting people with Zero. That and, even if I was able to do it, playing other competent Zero's who had an assist to help their neutral game put me at a disadvantage.
I'd love to keep him, but he really needs to be point nowadays or anchor an entirely different team style.
Last night made me decide I can't use Dante, though. Bold cancelling is too important and I just can't do it reliably given the speed at which you need to input it and the muscles in my hands. Zero's combos, to me, are easy. Even the 920,800 damage one with one meter that Zero / Nova / Dante can pull off that's NOT a lightning loop. Just takes timing and practice.
Dante Bold cancels require speed, so I'll probably move on despite him, on paper, being the best choice for my team. Seriously, if any of you want to try Zero / Nova / Dante, do it, it's an awesome team.
Sooooooooo.....Vergil or Spencer next. No idea which. Might even be a bad idea due to the primary need of a neutral game assist.
I was also pondering Ammy, but I can't do weapon switches either.
You don't need the weapon switches, but without them she is a terrible anchor. It took me half an hour to get her weapon switch combo with Tron assist (mission 9, I think?), but even the easier weapon switch combos aren't very fun for me.
And l_g is right, cold star is better at holding people in place than covering your point's movement. Each cold shot has - IIRC - the lowest durability of any projectile in the game. They will not stop a goddamn thing. I like it for setting up teleport mixups, though.
Well, whoever I pick is going third. Zero / Nova are the frontline.
Leaning towards Vergil at this point and going to experiment with two of his assists tonight.
Rapid Slash looks like a good assist... Especially what it does during combos, but just a word of warning - once Vergil starts dashing forward and those hitboxes start spewing out behind him? He's entirely unsafe. A player with good reflexes can clock him square out of it for a combo. It is not as good an assist in the neutral game as people think it is.
At this juncture you need something that can safely cover the ground neutral, and fits into an anchor slot. You're basically left with the options of Hawkeye, Taskmaster, Rocket Raccoon, Magneto, Dr. Doom, Akuma and Arthur. Sentinel or Chris could work I guess but either of them on anchor aren't that hot at that spot. I don't see Spencer or Vergil giving you much footing room during the neutral game.
Agreed. I'm actually going to try Vergil's dragon punch esq kick first (lol). Then his rapid slash. I would never throw out rapid slash without protecting it via Buster or teleports, though.
Then Spencer's slanted grapple.
Then.....I dunno. Maybe Hawkeye.
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That's really interesting. I still find Dark Wesker horrifying, but I'm certainly not at the tournament level. I'd imagine once you really understand how to block his teleport mixups, he's not as scary. Unfortunately, I still can't block them that well.
As for Vergil or Spencer, I'd think Vergil would help a bit more in controlling space than Spencer would. Specifically, his rapid slash assist. We've all seen he has the ability to extend Zero's combos as well. Plus, he makes a fantastic anchor. Though, I'm not sure if Vergil's assist would be able to help extend Nova's combos while I know Spencer's could.
Speaking of Spencer, I think I'm done with the man with the Bionic Arm. At least for now. He's just not clicking the way I want him to. I even tried switching my team order to Nova/Task/Spencer this afternoon. But I'm pretty awful with Spencer as anchor.
I think I'm just going to keep She-hulk/Nova/Task as my main team for now and just try to learn how to play some of my weaker match ups (Zero, Vergil, and Trish can go die in a fire). Probably will go back to the Nova/Frank/Task team for my 2nd team. And of course my lovely Frank/Deadpool/Task team in the 3rd slot.
That's really interesting. I still find Dark Wesker horrifying, but I'm certainly not at the tournament level. I'd imagine once you really understand how to block his teleport mixups, he's not as scary. Unfortunately, I still can't block them that well.
I still think he's good and a good anchor, but the problem is you can't rely on XF3 comebacks AND he doesn't help Nova or Zero at all from full screen. Additionally, people are also focusing more and more on brutal entry mixups. Amazing anchors can't do XF3 comebacks if they never get the chance.
I'll probably keep the team as an alt team, but it's a bad makeup when trying to get in on Morrigan / Doom . That and neither Nova or Wesker help me against an opposing Zero who has assists built to help him get in. One on one, I fear no Zero (well, this one guy was crazy, but he was random), but Zero without neutral assist versus Zero with a neutral assist is bad news.
As for Vergil or Spencer, I'd think Vergil would help a bit more in controlling space than Spencer would. Specifically, his rapid slash assist. We've all seen he has the ability to extend Zero's combos as well. Plus, he makes a fantastic anchor. Though, I'm not sure if Vergil's assist would be able to help extend Nova's combos while I know Spencer's could.
Yep, will find out tonight on it. Still trying the other assists before rapid slash for lol's.
Speaking of Spencer, I think I'm done with the man with the Bionic Arm. At least for now. He's just not clicking the way I want him to. I even tried switching my team order to Nova/Task/Spencer this afternoon. But I'm pretty awful with Spencer as anchor.
I think I'm just going to keep She-hulk/Nova/Task as my main team for now and just try to learn how to play some of my weaker match ups (Zero, Vergil, and Trish can go die in a fire). Probably will go back to the Nova/Frank/Task team for my 2nd team. And of course my lovely Frank/Deadpool/Task team in the 3rd slot.
What about She-hulk / Task / Nova? That way Tasky has a high low mixup like the one I do with Zero / Nova.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. Really, the game has evolved to the point where OTG assists aren't even all that important except for specific teams. With people finding ways around it, some of the best characters being able to self-OTG, and TAC combos being more viable most of them they're kind of eh.
So, Wesker ends up being dead weight in the support department.
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
edited July 2012
So uh... Word currently buzzing around the SRK forums is that the "capture state" glitch from Vanilla hasn't been fixed. As seen in the Deadpool video above, his Bolo Loop ended up reseting the damage scaling of his combo midway through. This has also been confirmed to work with Spider-Man's Web Ball assist (lawls). Other capture states listed are Trish Peakaboo, Mag's Hypergrav, Spencer Wire Grapple (and Bionic Maneuvers hyper), Net Trap, Tron's Beacon Bomb, Hawkeye's Net Arrow and Ice Arrow, Dante's Grapple, Skrull's Worm Squash, Taskmaster's Sting Master, Storm's Elemental Rage hyper, Frank's Hammer Throw H (the zombie that grabs your opponent if it connects). Looks like testing on this is going to be ongoing at this rate.
MAHVEL BAYBEH!
(P.S.: Just learnt an actual combo with Mags, simple stuff, that carries someone to the corner and sets them up for Hypergrav loops. Builds a meter and a bit to boot. Only problem? I think I have execution fatigue since my usually great hypergrav timing is atrocious tonight. )
So uh... Word currently buzzing around the SRK forums is that the "capture state" glitch from Vanilla hasn't been fixed. As seen in the Deadpool video above, his Bolo Loop ended up reseting the damage scaling of his combo midway through. This has also been confirmed to work with Spider-Man's Web Ball assist (lawls). Other capture states listed are Trish Peakaboo, Mag's Hypergrav, Spencer Wire Grapple (and Bionic Maneuvers hyper), Net Trap, Tron's Beacon Bomb, Hawkeye's Net Arrow and Ice Arrow, Dante's Grapple, Skrull's Worm Squash, Taskmaster's Sting Master, Storm's Elemental Rage hyper, Frank's Hammer Throw H (the zombie that grabs your opponent if it connects). Looks like testing on this is going to be ongoing at this rate.
MAHVEL BAYBEH!
(P.S.: Just learnt an actual combo with Mags, simple stuff, that carries someone to the corner and sets them up for Hypergrav loops. Builds a meter and a bit to boot. Only problem? I think I have execution fatigue since my usually great hypergrav timing is atrocious tonight. )
That's pretty hilarious in light of the Marvel EVO Panel Q&A where someone asked why Spider-man's assists suck so much.
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Damage scaling reset on capture state would explain why Spencer's hyper does so much damage even when the combos are long as hell.
The theory that was going around last night was that because of being hit while an assist is on-screen during that capture state, the game gets "confused" as to who's combo is who's and thus resets because it believes another character is comboing. Everything from the start of the Deadpool combo to the bolo capture state is considered "Deadpool's" combo. However, when Sentinel drones hit, the game gets confused and thinks that Sentinel has started a fresh combo, so resets the scaling accordingly - some shit like this exists in the games in other forms: If you go do a ground throw with Thor or an air throw with Nova, you have enough time to hard-tag into someone else with an OTG (Wesker, Viper, Deadpool etc) and combo off of it, but the tag itself reset damage scaling.
Now people have been messing with it a bit more this seems to have been debunked so they're back to not knowing what the hell set this off anyway.
And yeah Spencer's QCFH with a L follow-up does 80k unscaled. His zip-line also has unscaled hitstun deterioration.
Think it's time to start heading over to London to participate in casuals and maybe a tournament or two when I can find some information. There's only so far I can get with training room and online, and I wanna up my game. Plus I'm hungry for a challenge!
Also, what do you think of Nova/Task/Doom? I was just theorycrafting teams with Nova/Task. But, of course, I have no clue how to use Doom.
It works, but not a fan of Doom as an anchor. I mean he can win, we've all seen it, and his assists are so powerful they make up for having a slightly weaker anchor.
After last night, what's your thoughts on the order for shehulk / task / nova?
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So I'm putting together a team called "level your shit up and get out of your comfort zones." I wanna slot Vergil because it's fucking Vergil and I always liked him the best in DMC 3. He'd help me work on teleport mixups, getting in etc. Nova would probably also be a great addition since I can work on fishing with air throws with him. I do kinda want to keep Taskmaster around since I'm actually not terrible with him and pretty comfortable with all aspects of his gameplan. I can get in with Task and not get all skittish about it so I don't think it'd be all that smart to dump someone like that. He'd also give me a really solid assist for Vergil to capitalize off.
I don't really see what Nova would get out of either of those characters though. I do admit to know knowing him all that well, but just at a glance the only slot I could see him being around for would be anchor and running Task/Vergil/Nova and that seems kinda bleh. Maybe just trade Nova for someone else that helps Task/Vergil's gameplan or gets something out of Task and Vergil?
I am just starting to toy with Nova / Vergil due to dropping Wesker and I ffound out last night, with Vergil's Rapid Slash assist, Nova can hit a guy with all three Centurion Arts moves, in order from L to H, at the end of his combo. Whether he goes into Nova Force immediately or goes for the j.H prior to Nova Force is dependant on how many times you hit them prior.
The timing is tight, though, much harder to to do than just chill to Wesker shoots them. However, due to Vergil, they bounce higher, so the hard part here is landing the Centurion Arts M.
If you want to be a dick, X-factor after Centurion Arts M, do ANOTHER Centurion Arts M, Centurion Arts H, Nova force (or jump H, Nova Force..again depends on total hits prior).
Calling Vergil and flying past them with an air dash or a rocket punch to get a long range mixup is a lot of fun, but it's hectic as hell converting off it so far.
If Vergil is ahead of Nova, you can do a combo into air combo with Vergil, slam them down and as they fall, call Nova. Do a properly timed High Time and Nova hits them, forcing a ground bounce (even if you've used your ground bounce already) and letting Vergil continue the combo. I've only done it in the corner thus far, but should be able to use Trick to chase them if you use it midscreen and the Nova ground bounce hurls them cross the screen.
That's what I figured out after a few hours last night, but the caveat is I have no idea how to really use Vergil yet.
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Also, what do you think of Nova/Task/Doom? I was just theorycrafting teams with Nova/Task. But, of course, I have no clue how to use Doom.
It works, but not a fan of Doom as an anchor. I mean he can win, we've all seen it, and his assists are so powerful they make up for having a slightly weaker anchor.
After last night, what's your thoughts on the order for shehulk / task / nova?
I actually really liked it. I'm still trying to get used to the team order, but overall I think it's better. Being able to easily combo off of taskmaster's sharp sting with She-hulk was really nice. I feel a little guilty when I win with XF3 Nova though
I don't really see what Nova would get out of either of those characters though. I do admit to know knowing him all that well, but just at a glance the only slot I could see him being around for would be anchor and running Task/Vergil/Nova and that seems kinda bleh. Maybe just trade Nova for someone else that helps Task/Vergil's gameplan or gets something out of Task and Vergil?
I would say you either want Nova or Vergil as your anchor.
So, I'd say
Vergil/Task/Nova or Nova/Task/Vergil
Personally, I've been thinking of trying Nova/Task/Vergil. It's actually a team I've been considering after playing Biz (because, I copying Biz). He was able to use Rapid Slash to extend his Nova combo, which I didn't even know was possible
EDIT: Just played a few matches this morning and man, i really REALLY love my new team order. THANK YOU BIZ.
What sort of assists would Nova ideally want assuming access to the full cast? Low hitting ones or just something that pins them for a square jump mix up?
If Vergil is ahead of Nova, you can do a combo into air combo with Vergil, slam them down and as they fall, call Nova. Do a properly timed High Time and Nova hits them, forcing a ground bounce (even if you've used your ground bounce already) and letting Vergil continue the combo. I've only done it in the corner thus far, but should be able to use Trick to chase them if you use it midscreen and the Nova ground bounce hurls them cross the screen.
I've played Vergil/Nova/Frank for awhile, so yeah. You wont have enough time to teleport to follow them after this, but you will have enough time to do a stinger and teleport after that (assuming you haven't already used your wall bounce). You can also call Nova just as Vergil is throwing a round trip in order to get an extra ground bounce from Lunar Phase. This was important for my team, since said ground bounce is long enough to hard tag to Frank.
That said, I'm leaning away from that team now, since I've decided that Vergil on point just isn't ideal.
What sort of assists would Nova ideally want assuming access to the full cast? Low hitting ones or just something that pins them for a square jump mix up?
You'll want an assist that pins them down for a square jump.
Things such as Hawkeye or Taskmaster's Arrows, Doom's Beam, Frank's chart, etc. If possible, having another assist that lets you extend his combo would be good bonus.
To extend his combos, you either need an OTG assist (For after the Air S) or you'll need an assist that will essentially "catch" the opponent after you do something like Air S, Call Assist to start coming out to catch soon to be flying opponent, L Centurion Rush, Finish combo.
Also, quick word of advice. You have to make sure the Air S gets all the hits in. This seems to be dependent on their positioning in the air when you hit S. Personally, I find M, M, H (or M,H) xx Flight xx L,M,H,S to be the easiest and most reliable way to do it. However, it is not the most damaging flight combo.
L Centurion Rush - Doesn't use ground bounce. Generally used after a throw to start a combo. It can be used in the middle of combos but has limited options outside of going straight into a Hyper without some sort of assist to help it keep going.
However, extending Nova's combos is just a bonus IMO. He can get quite a lot of damage by himself using his own OTG's.
I've played Vergil/Nova/Frank for awhile, so yeah. You wont have enough time to teleport to follow them after this, but you will have enough time to do a stinger and teleport after that (assuming you haven't already used your wall bounce). You can also call Nova just as Vergil is throwing a round trip in order to get an extra ground bounce from Lunar Phase. This was important for my team, since said ground bounce is long enough to hard tag to Frank.
That said, I'm leaning away from that team now, since I've decided that Vergil on point just isn't ideal.
Hilarious. Good to hear someone who's used that combination, though, even if it's in a different order than mine. It's not like I won't have a situation where Nova has to leave and let vergil in.
Do you have any notations of the Vergil combos you use? Any? Even / especially solo ones? I keep finding unhelpful videos and I really just want the notation to read and figure out myself.
Last night was primarily seeing how he works with Zero and Nova ahead of him and integrating his assists into their combo (I was very pleased at how Nova can use him, but damn that timing). I need to start on him solo tonight or tomorrow since he is my anchor, though.
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So, I've found Dante to be problematic. There's just so much to learn that it's overwhelming. Logan on the other hand has potential. Still need to train my fingers to hit Atk+S right, as instead of his air Drill Claw I keep getting a TAC instead. Might slot him into X-23's spot on my team and run some sets tonight.
Thinking of trying out Spidey next, mainly cause he looks awesome and if anything his Web Glide will help me get Atk+S down.
What sort of assists would Nova ideally want assuming access to the full cast? Low hitting ones or just something that pins them for a square jump mix up?
You'll want an assist that pins them down for a square jump.
Things such as Hawkeye or Taskmaster's Arrows, Doom's Beam, Frank's chart, etc. If possible, having another assist that lets you extend his combo would be good bonus.
To extend his combos, you either need an OTG assist (For after the Air S) or you'll need an assist that will essentially "catch" the opponent after you do something like Air S, Call Assist to start coming out to catch soon to be flying opponent, L Centurion Rush, Finish combo.
Also, quick word of advice. You have to make sure the Air S gets all the hits in. This seems to be dependent on their positioning in the air when you hit S. Personally, I find M, M, H (or M,H) xx Flight xx L,M,H,S to be the easiest and most reliable way to do it. However, it is not the most damaging flight combo.
So Tasky and Vergil are actually pretty legit buddies for Nova. Neat!
I've played Vergil/Nova/Frank for awhile, so yeah. You wont have enough time to teleport to follow them after this, but you will have enough time to do a stinger and teleport after that (assuming you haven't already used your wall bounce). You can also call Nova just as Vergil is throwing a round trip in order to get an extra ground bounce from Lunar Phase. This was important for my team, since said ground bounce is long enough to hard tag to Frank.
That said, I'm leaning away from that team now, since I've decided that Vergil on point just isn't ideal.
Hilarious. Good to hear someone who's used that combination, though, even if it's in a different order than mine. It's not like I won't have a situation where Nova has to leave and let vergil in.
Do you have any notations of the Vergil combos you use? Any? Even / especially solo ones? I keep finding unhelpful videos and I really just want the notation to read and figure out myself.
Don't have time to type something out right now but I can do it tomorrow if I remember.
So I've been thinking of creating a Shuma team using his mystic ray assist. Might mix him in with Wolverine as I was discussing a Wolverine team earlier, and I think I saw hAz Angelic running a pretty great Wolverine/Shuma team.
Thoughts for a third? I'm not sure if I would put Shuma second or anchor. I reckon he's a terrible anchor but I can live with it.
I take it you're using shuma assist to help with otg xx dp xx super?
Maybe another assist to help him get in. You have the obvious candidates like sent drones, or doom anything. I don't really know much about shuma to tell what assists might best benefit him though.
Who knows, maybe I'll try Doom anchor. Since I already play Doom, that would at least give me a fighting chance since I'm using two unfamiliar-ish characters.
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:shakefist:
Oh well, I could have had a setup too with a little research/planning. I don't have a monitor, but our room had a CRT with a composite input on the front. Now I know for next year, which I will almost certainly attend because this weekend was just too much damn fun.
The energy in the hall during Marvel finals was unbelievable, streams just can't do it justice.
Because I almost ranked down to 9th, as my entire team fell apart, because I literally got happy birthday'd in almost every match I played.
What the hell, self.
Oooooh, are we talking about Wesker?
Seriously, Wesker is dropping off the radar so quickly in Marvel. He's still a really good character, and a lot of people use him, but his tournament performance is going down because:
A) Wesker has trouble fighting the teams that fill the screen with shitloads of hitboxes (Dormammu, Doom assists, Morrigan) that the meta looks like it's shifting towards.
I love Wesker as a character and I love his move set, and I still think he's a very threatening character - but as time goes on and the community discovers more tech? Every upper-tier character that new tech is found for makes Wesker slide down a little more because it's more stuff Wesker can't circumvate. Wesker has no answer to Firebrand unblockables. He can't circumvate Dormammu or Morrigan easily on entry. He doesn't get much off of a TAC. "Dark Wesker" is next to dead as it is so he'll probably go back to being a point character - especially since his OTG assist is helping less and less characters that shape the state of the game - they simply don't need it or they can do it themselves. The only "high-tier" character I can think of that does exceptionally well with an OTG assist is Vergil and he doesn't even really need it to get sword loops going.
I remember playing Biz in the earlier days of Vanilla when he ran... At the time I think it was Zero/Hulk/Wesker, and back then it felt like he was doing so to counter online being arse, and learning how to get the most out of Zero with OTGs. Nowadays Zero can do so much he doesn't need an OTG assist (rather, Zero can self-OTG and catch someone in a Jam Session and go from there). Same with Nova, really. I'd wager that'd be a good reason for moving away from Wesker.
What...
WHAT?!
Look at the damage before it gets silly with Hyper combos.
Deadpool ToD on any member of the cast for 2 assists, 1 meter? :O
Looking at it closely, it looks like bolo loop landing onto drones resets the damage scaling to an extent because the damage of Quick Work shoots right back up afterwards. That's insane. So it's fitting for Deadpool.
No, I am dropping him because I need help in the neutral game. As the meta shifts, I was having more and more trouble navigating the bullet hell and hitting people with Zero. That and, even if I was able to do it, playing other competent Zero's who had an assist to help their neutral game put me at a disadvantage.
I'd love to keep him, but he really needs to be point nowadays or anchor an entirely different team style.
Last night made me decide I can't use Dante, though. Bold cancelling is too important and I just can't do it reliably given the speed at which you need to input it and the muscles in my hands. Zero's combos, to me, are easy. Even the 920,800 damage one with one meter that Zero / Nova / Dante can pull off that's NOT a lightning loop. Just takes timing and practice.
Dante Bold cancels require speed, so I'll probably move on despite him, on paper, being the best choice for my team. Seriously, if any of you want to try Zero / Nova / Dante, do it, it's an awesome team.
Sooooooooo.....Vergil or Spencer next. No idea which. Might even be a bad idea due to the primary need of a neutral game assist.
I was also pondering Ammy, but I can't do weapon switches either.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Ammy's cold star assist is of dubious value in the neutral game, which might further cement the argument against putting Ammy on your team.
You don't need the weapon switches, but without them she is a terrible anchor. It took me half an hour to get her weapon switch combo with Tron assist (mission 9, I think?), but even the easier weapon switch combos aren't very fun for me.
And l_g is right, cold star is better at holding people in place than covering your point's movement. Each cold shot has - IIRC - the lowest durability of any projectile in the game. They will not stop a goddamn thing. I like it for setting up teleport mixups, though.
Leaning towards Vergil at this point and going to experiment with two of his assists tonight.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Rapid Slash looks like a good assist... Especially what it does during combos, but just a word of warning - once Vergil starts dashing forward and those hitboxes start spewing out behind him? He's entirely unsafe. A player with good reflexes can clock him square out of it for a combo. It is not as good an assist in the neutral game as people think it is.
At this juncture you need something that can safely cover the ground neutral, and fits into an anchor slot. You're basically left with the options of Hawkeye, Taskmaster, Rocket Raccoon, Magneto, Dr. Doom, Akuma and Arthur. Sentinel or Chris could work I guess but either of them on anchor aren't that hot at that spot. I don't see Spencer or Vergil giving you much footing room during the neutral game.
Then Spencer's slanted grapple.
Then.....I dunno. Maybe Hawkeye.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
As for Vergil or Spencer, I'd think Vergil would help a bit more in controlling space than Spencer would. Specifically, his rapid slash assist. We've all seen he has the ability to extend Zero's combos as well. Plus, he makes a fantastic anchor. Though, I'm not sure if Vergil's assist would be able to help extend Nova's combos while I know Spencer's could.
Speaking of Spencer, I think I'm done with the man with the Bionic Arm. At least for now. He's just not clicking the way I want him to. I even tried switching my team order to Nova/Task/Spencer this afternoon. But I'm pretty awful with Spencer as anchor.
I think I'm just going to keep She-hulk/Nova/Task as my main team for now and just try to learn how to play some of my weaker match ups (Zero, Vergil, and Trish can go die in a fire). Probably will go back to the Nova/Frank/Task team for my 2nd team. And of course my lovely Frank/Deadpool/Task team in the 3rd slot.
I still think he's good and a good anchor, but the problem is you can't rely on XF3 comebacks AND he doesn't help Nova or Zero at all from full screen. Additionally, people are also focusing more and more on brutal entry mixups. Amazing anchors can't do XF3 comebacks if they never get the chance.
I'll probably keep the team as an alt team, but it's a bad makeup when trying to get in on Morrigan / Doom
Yep, will find out tonight on it. Still trying the other assists before rapid slash for lol's.
What about She-hulk / Task / Nova? That way Tasky has a high low mixup like the one I do with Zero / Nova.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
So, Wesker ends up being dead weight in the support department.
I'll be sure to give that one a try.
Also, what do you think of Nova/Task/Doom? I was just theorycrafting teams with Nova/Task. But, of course, I have no clue how to use Doom.
MAHVEL BAYBEH!
(P.S.: Just learnt an actual combo with Mags, simple stuff, that carries someone to the corner and sets them up for Hypergrav loops. Builds a meter and a bit to boot. Only problem? I think I have execution fatigue since my usually great hypergrav timing is atrocious tonight.
That's pretty hilarious in light of the Marvel EVO Panel Q&A where someone asked why Spider-man's assists suck so much.
BTW, this is my definitive "Match of EVO":
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"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
Specifically the damage scaling reset. Reminds me of the DHC glitch
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The theory that was going around last night was that because of being hit while an assist is on-screen during that capture state, the game gets "confused" as to who's combo is who's and thus resets because it believes another character is comboing. Everything from the start of the Deadpool combo to the bolo capture state is considered "Deadpool's" combo. However, when Sentinel drones hit, the game gets confused and thinks that Sentinel has started a fresh combo, so resets the scaling accordingly - some shit like this exists in the games in other forms: If you go do a ground throw with Thor or an air throw with Nova, you have enough time to hard-tag into someone else with an OTG (Wesker, Viper, Deadpool etc) and combo off of it, but the tag itself reset damage scaling.
Now people have been messing with it a bit more this seems to have been debunked so they're back to not knowing what the hell set this off anyway.
And yeah Spencer's QCFH with a L follow-up does 80k unscaled. His zip-line also has unscaled hitstun deterioration.
Think it's time to start heading over to London to participate in casuals and maybe a tournament or two when I can find some information. There's only so far I can get with training room and online, and I wanna up my game. Plus I'm hungry for a challenge!
It works, but not a fan of Doom as an anchor. I mean he can win, we've all seen it, and his assists are so powerful they make up for having a slightly weaker anchor.
After last night, what's your thoughts on the order for shehulk / task / nova?
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I don't really see what Nova would get out of either of those characters though. I do admit to know knowing him all that well, but just at a glance the only slot I could see him being around for would be anchor and running Task/Vergil/Nova and that seems kinda bleh. Maybe just trade Nova for someone else that helps Task/Vergil's gameplan or gets something out of Task and Vergil?
The timing is tight, though, much harder to to do than just chill to Wesker shoots them. However, due to Vergil, they bounce higher, so the hard part here is landing the Centurion Arts M.
If you want to be a dick, X-factor after Centurion Arts M, do ANOTHER Centurion Arts M, Centurion Arts H, Nova force (or jump H, Nova Force..again depends on total hits prior).
Calling Vergil and flying past them with an air dash or a rocket punch to get a long range mixup is a lot of fun, but it's hectic as hell converting off it so far.
If Vergil is ahead of Nova, you can do a combo into air combo with Vergil, slam them down and as they fall, call Nova. Do a properly timed High Time and Nova hits them, forcing a ground bounce (even if you've used your ground bounce already) and letting Vergil continue the combo. I've only done it in the corner thus far, but should be able to use Trick to chase them if you use it midscreen and the Nova ground bounce hurls them cross the screen.
That's what I figured out after a few hours last night, but the caveat is I have no idea how to really use Vergil yet.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I actually really liked it. I'm still trying to get used to the team order, but overall I think it's better. Being able to easily combo off of taskmaster's sharp sting with She-hulk was really nice. I feel a little guilty when I win with XF3 Nova though
I would say you either want Nova or Vergil as your anchor.
So, I'd say
Vergil/Task/Nova or Nova/Task/Vergil
Personally, I've been thinking of trying Nova/Task/Vergil. It's actually a team I've been considering after playing Biz (because, I
EDIT: Just played a few matches this morning and man, i really REALLY love my new team order. THANK YOU BIZ.
That said, I'm leaning away from that team now, since I've decided that Vergil on point just isn't ideal.
You'll want an assist that pins them down for a square jump.
Things such as Hawkeye or Taskmaster's Arrows, Doom's Beam, Frank's chart, etc. If possible, having another assist that lets you extend his combo would be good bonus.
To extend his combos, you either need an OTG assist (For after the Air S) or you'll need an assist that will essentially "catch" the opponent after you do something like Air S, Call Assist to start coming out to catch soon to be flying opponent, L Centurion Rush, Finish combo.
Also, quick word of advice. You have to make sure the Air S gets all the hits in. This seems to be dependent on their positioning in the air when you hit S. Personally, I find M, M, H (or M,H) xx Flight xx L,M,H,S to be the easiest and most reliable way to do it. However, it is not the most damaging flight combo.
Forward + H - Uses up your ground bounce
L Centurion Rush - Doesn't use ground bounce. Generally used after a throw to start a combo. It can be used in the middle of combos but has limited options outside of going straight into a Hyper without some sort of assist to help it keep going.
However, extending Nova's combos is just a bonus IMO. He can get quite a lot of damage by himself using his own OTG's.
Hilarious. Good to hear someone who's used that combination, though, even if it's in a different order than mine. It's not like I won't have a situation where Nova has to leave and let vergil in.
Do you have any notations of the Vergil combos you use? Any? Even / especially solo ones? I keep finding unhelpful videos and I really just want the notation to read and figure out myself.
Last night was primarily seeing how he works with Zero and Nova ahead of him and integrating his assists into their combo (I was very pleased at how Nova can use him, but damn that timing). I need to start on him solo tonight or tomorrow since he is my anchor, though.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Thinking of trying out Spidey next, mainly cause he looks awesome and if anything his Web Glide will help me get Atk+S down.
I believe Wolverine's Atk+S goes horizontal by default which I think is the direction you would want to go anyway during an air combo.
So Tasky and Vergil are actually pretty legit buddies for Nova. Neat!
I
Thoughts for a third? I'm not sure if I would put Shuma second or anchor. I reckon he's a terrible anchor but I can live with it.
Maybe another assist to help him get in. You have the obvious candidates like sent drones, or doom anything. I don't really know much about shuma to tell what assists might best benefit him though.
Good luck!
Who knows, maybe I'll try Doom anchor. Since I already play Doom, that would at least give me a fighting chance since I'm using two unfamiliar-ish characters.