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Crusader Kings 2 Succession/Learning Game

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    MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    Bought Sword of Islam last night, and decided to play the Moors. Did some quick research on Wikipedia and discovered the Almoravid Dynasty. According to Wikipedia, Almoravid means "one who is ready for battle at a fortress."

    And that's exactly what I am.

    Since starting the game near current-day Morrocco, I've conquered lots of territory around myself. I've pressed into Mali territory in the south, and territory in the north and east, and just started making inroads into Spain before logging off for the night. I'm pretty far from meeting the Christians in northern Spain, though. All my fights so far have been with fellow Sunni.

    Islam seems ridiculously powerful. The mechanic that's supposed to keep you from having lots of holdings, Decadence, doesn't seem to have that big of an effect. I have maybe 15 or 16 personal holdings, out of a total of like 16 counties under my Sultate, and my decadence hovers around 20%. Plus, there's no real need to manufacture claims, as playing an Islam faction means you have a Casus Belli for any territory on your border. I could just keep conquering everyone around me forever.

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    BloodsheedBloodsheed Registered User regular
    Melkster wrote: »
    Bought Sword of Islam last night, and decided to play the Moors. Did some quick research on Wikipedia and discovered the Almoravid Dynasty. According to Wikipedia, Almoravid means "one who is ready for battle at a fortress."

    And that's exactly what I am.

    Since starting the game near current-day Morrocco, I've conquered lots of territory around myself. I've pressed into Mali territory in the south, and territory in the north and east, and just started making inroads into Spain before logging off for the night. I'm pretty far from meeting the Christians in northern Spain, though. All my fights so far have been with fellow Sunni.

    Islam seems ridiculously powerful. The mechanic that's supposed to keep you from having lots of holdings, Decadence, doesn't seem to have that big of an effect. I have maybe 15 or 16 personal holdings, out of a total of like 16 counties under my Sultate, and my decadence hovers around 20%. Plus, there's no real need to manufacture claims, as playing an Islam faction means you have a Casus Belli for any territory on your border. I could just keep conquering everyone around me forever.

    Question: Has your first ruler died yet? If no, then hoo boy, wait for it. If yes and you didn't spend the next 30 years embroiled in constant succession wars and rebellions, you have lucked out and it will happen eventually. Oh it will. The Islamic rulers seem to be more powerful under normal conditions but when shit hits the fan they are much, much harder to recover from than when that happens to the Christian rulers. At least in my experience.

    Xbox Live, Steam, PSN: Eclibull
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    The Fourth EstateThe Fourth Estate Registered User regular
    Also note that you are continually expanding. The second you slow down the full force of the decadence mechanic is going to slam into you, especially if you have a large family.

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    KorrorKorror Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Succession crises in Islamic dynasties aren't too bad as long as you are aware of what's going to happen. Just make sure you don't have too many sons and have a strong personal demise for your chosen successor to handle the inventible rebellion of his half-brothers if any. If any duke is disloyal, strip him of his duchy and then give it to someone else. He'll still hate you but it'll be their problem now. If you want to game the system, marry older infertile women to your lackluster sons and keep your family tree trimmed. You can also try to kill yourself off through frequent fasting when your chosen heir is ready to rule which lets you chose the time of succession.

    Korror on
    Battlenet ID: NullPointer
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    VicVic Registered User regular
    The decadence mechanic alone is what is preventing me from playing SoI right now. The amount of micromanaging required to keep it down once you have had a ruler reach old age and his six sons start popping out two sons of their own per year is staggering.

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    BotznoyBotznoy Registered User regular
    Just wait until your ruler dies then when as the new one, arrest and execute all of your brothers

    IZF2byN.jpg

    Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
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    gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Vic wrote: »
    The decadence mechanic alone is what is preventing me from playing SoI right now. The amount of micromanaging required to keep it down once you have had a ruler reach old age and his six sons start popping out two sons of their own per year is staggering.

    That's when you take the tyranny hit for killing your sons. And there's no tyranny hit for killing your grandchildren...


    I actually got my Muslim empire so large that my Emperor was generating more decadence than a full demesne could handle. That is not pleasant...

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Yeah, the islamic kingdoms view killing your relatives as just another part of statecraft. So bloody purges are a regular part of housekeeping. And since you can have a bunch of wives you rarely need to start worrying about your clan getting too small, because you can pop out kids like whoa

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Also halfbrothers fucking hate each other in muslimland. Never ever give land to a brother from another mother. He'll rebel instantly.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    Bloodsheed wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    Bought Sword of Islam last night, and decided to play the Moors. Did some quick research on Wikipedia and discovered the Almoravid Dynasty. According to Wikipedia, Almoravid means "one who is ready for battle at a fortress."

    And that's exactly what I am.

    Since starting the game near current-day Morrocco, I've conquered lots of territory around myself. I've pressed into Mali territory in the south, and territory in the north and east, and just started making inroads into Spain before logging off for the night. I'm pretty far from meeting the Christians in northern Spain, though. All my fights so far have been with fellow Sunni.

    Islam seems ridiculously powerful. The mechanic that's supposed to keep you from having lots of holdings, Decadence, doesn't seem to have that big of an effect. I have maybe 15 or 16 personal holdings, out of a total of like 16 counties under my Sultate, and my decadence hovers around 20%. Plus, there's no real need to manufacture claims, as playing an Islam faction means you have a Casus Belli for any territory on your border. I could just keep conquering everyone around me forever.

    Question: Has your first ruler died yet? If no, then hoo boy, wait for it. If yes and you didn't spend the next 30 years embroiled in constant succession wars and rebellions, you have lucked out and it will happen eventually. Oh it will. The Islamic rulers seem to be more powerful under normal conditions but when shit hits the fan they are much, much harder to recover from than when that happens to the Christian rulers. At least in my experience.

    Still on my first ruler.

    Now I'm terrified.

    Absolutely terrified.

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    MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I do like the Muslim special events though.

    I got to go on a Hajj and everything.

    Allah be praised

    Melkster on
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    yeah the special events are cool

    medieval muslim world: way chiller than medieval christian world

    And yeah, basically the muslim kingdoms are a lot more dynamic in general. Expands faster, but can lose parts a lot faster too. It also makes things great for starting out as a vassal, because who knows where you'll end up in 100 years

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Yeah, the islamic kingdoms view killing your relatives as just another part of statecraft. So bloody purges are a regular part of housekeeping. And since you can have a bunch of wives you rarely need to start worrying about your clan getting too small, because you can pop out kids like whoa

    From what I've read on it, the CK2 Muslim succession is based off the Ottoman Empire. Other Islamic kingdoms weren't usually quite so bloody with relatives, but it makes for good gameplay so...

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    DuriniaDurinia Evolved from Space Potatoes Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    ok so my goal was to finish up my turn today, but between starting World War 1 about 800 years early, fighting off 3 separate jihad attempts, and Fruela being fucking immortal (currently 73, with a 2 year old son and he hasn't even gotten sick for the last 30 years), I'll have to finish everything tomorrow.

    And here, I thought Fruela was the crappy son.
    Goes to show what I know...

    For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
    --Mark Twain
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    ok guys, updating now, but I'm gonna ask for feedback before I finish my turn cuz I got a big decision to make
    Also I had a crash partway through this play session, which didn't end up affecting anything but if any pics have minor discrepancies, that's what's going on. For some reason CK2 gets grouchy at my comp when I screenshot.

    1170 - 1184: The Consolidation
    Alright, so when last we left Emperor Fruela, we had just had another Jihad declared on us. I'm not going to bother walking through that war in much detail because there's gonna be plenty more Jihads where that came from. But this is probably the biggest reason why a lot of these clashes have been fairly easy

    24v15qr.jpg

    Since the Christian world's pretty much stopped all Muslim expansion cold, their rulers have nowhere to unload rowdy family members, and while the religious leaders are managing to prevent too much Muslim infighting by directing their wars outwards in fruitless holy wars, most of the biggest ruling families have become hopelessly decadent.

    2wrq6ty.jpg

    Although they almost always have a numbers advantage in every war of the coming 2 decades, their soldiers are rarely a match for their Spanish counterparts. Unable to combine forces without attrition, they're separated and destroyed one by one, with peace following shortly afterwards.

    To celebrate, I get a fancy painting of one of my great blind ancestors

    fz223r.jpg

    During this whole period of peacetime, probably the longest in Hispania's history, all my cash is going towards creating and usurping titles from our newly conquered lands. Unfortunately sometimes my nepotism goes a LITTLE too far, and my very clever son (who was SUPPOSED to be like 4th in line until my heir rudely died in an accident) manages to pick up 2 kingships and marry a queen of a third. He also hates me a whole lot, but luckily most of his energy is spent towards rebuilding Anatolia, so he's not really a rebellion risk yet. Unfortunately I know that as soon as my heir takes the throne it's going to be all kinds of succession crisis.

    However, Emperor Fruela, in what will become his trademark style, decides to wait and just see how things turn out. No reason to rush into a conflict quite yet.

    By 1183 Fruela is ready to finally launch the last war of the (re-)reconquista, declaring a holy war for Sevilla. Just as in the previous clash against the Caliph a decade previous, the Muslim leadership is just too decadent to really field a competitive army, and the decade of peace has given the Spanish vassals a chance to upgrade their holdings and fully train their levies. The fight ends up not even being competitive

    15dmlxy.jpg

    By 1184 the Farazid Sultan gets in on the action trying to retake Anatolia. While preparing to ferry his troops to his still undefended eastern holdings Fruela is nicknamed "the Old" at the age of 56... A moniker he will keep for almost 20 years before taking a new one.

    20jirtg.jpg

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    1184 - 1187: Spain's Korea
    By the time Spanish troops arrive in the eastern territories the Muslims have already assaulted their way through several of our barely-defended holdings. Even though several major Christian rulers volunteer to help, we still have to defend land far from our home provinces and close to theirs. Worst of all the countryside is mountainous and inhospitable. Travel is perilously slow with attrition rates high and disease rampant. Even with home province bonuses we're unable to combine enough troops to provide conclusive advantages in battle.

    1zd9aa.jpg

    What follows is a long, nasty campaign. Both sides lose thousands of men in Pyrrhic victories for one or the other. Although my allies' presence is helping to slowly push back the Muslim presence it's a hell of a lot of manpower expended for land that has yet to yield me one gold in taxes or soldiers. Almost the whole war is just a negative drain on Hispania.

    frrco.jpg
    (that other war I'm losing is just a minor squabble for land in North Africa that I was too polite to refuse)

    Luckily my obnoxiously over-Kingshipped son dies in one of those previously mentioned diseased provinces leading his troops (and oddly is recorded at death as Fruela IV, even though his name appears to actually be Fruela II? I guess he gave each Kingship a separate Fruela. Him naming himself after me 3 times almost makes me feel bad that I'm glad he's dead. His son's claim is nowhere near as pressing, and he's only a couple of years old anyway.

    Anyway, by 1186 I'm MORE than ready to get the hell out of this downer of a war, and settle for a white peace with the Sultan. At least next time maybe he'll attack me somewhere more pleasant to fight in, or at least somewhere with cities for me to sack.

    Next year I get my wish from our old friend the Caliph:

    205uivr.jpg

    If you're keeping track I believe this is the 3rd Jihad we've now been the target of.

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    1186 - 1195: In Which Old People Have Sex and Jihads

    Unfortunately for our Muslim friends he declares Jihad about a year after his chance, by now our levies have filled back up and Spain is able to provide almost 40k troops in its defense, even without requesting help from any holy orders.

    Also, these guys take an interest in events:
    2utonjd.jpg

    There's been a clear trend over the last 30 years: the Muslim levies have been large but have stayed pretty constant, while Hispania, thanks to steady leadership, lots of peacetime, and moderate taxes are able to field thousands more men every year. There's really no longer any doubt to the matter, Spain belongs to the Christians and it's going to stay that way.

    Fruela the Old celebrates this state of affairs by getting his wife pregnant again

    2z6xkk0.jpg

    ... And then again 2 years later

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    The Muslims are so impressed by Fruela's incredible sexual prowess (and his wife's apparent Womb of Holding: +5 vs. Menopause) that the Jihad collapses. The old Caliph died sometime during the war, so it's his successor who's stuck with the shame of defeat.

    24fy6ac.jpg

    Unfortunately in the same year Fruela's wife dies, possibly of illness but probably out of sheer exhaustion. On the plus side we pick up a random county in the middle of Russia. So, uh... We've got that?

    2u6nzps.jpg

    Meanwhile Fruela mourns in the only way he knows how:

    25q9cnc.jpg
    By gettin' it on

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    It should keep track based on Kingdom title for the ordinal number. For example: Charles V, the HRE, was also King of Spain, where he was Charles I.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Wow you have a lot of kids

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    1196-1197 : The Great Gamble

    Now, in that last pic there was a little detail that you probably didn't notice. I know I sure didn't notice, and I've really got just no idea at all how I got it in the first place:

    Fruela somehow nabbed himself a weak claim on the Holy Roman Empire.

    e5prpt.jpg

    Well, that's great and all, and by now Hispania may very well be able to put up a real fight against the decentralized HRE, but the damn thing is so huge, how could I possibly manage to overcome that much SPACE? It's like taking a march on Moscow. Except for one little thing:

    2ajqb1w.jpg

    Not only do I have a claim on the Emperor, he's also excommunicated. The HRE is normally decentralized, with an excommunicated monarch they must be almost non-functioning. And if things start to go badly I can probably just wait for Fruela to die and invalidate the war. As long as the HRE doesn't just outright smash us flat, there's hardly any risk to it. I go ahead and ask the Pope for permission to invade, who's happy to grant it to the guy who's won a Crusade and defeated 3 Jihads. I send the Emperor a letter, and start calling in favors

    33wtzpv.jpg
    sons start wars, daughters win them

    The Holy Roman Empire is beset on all sides and all of Europe is a battlefield. Forty thousand Spaniards target the Emperor's personal holdings, trying for a quick knock-out blow while his vassals are occupied trying to defend their own lands. Shit all be crazy up in Germany

    bey4qu.jpg

    Despite the outcome of the war still hanging in doubt, Fruela is given a new nickname in honor of his cajones

    wwkgfm.jpg

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Ouch, france isn't doing too hot that game. I saw you gave duchies to your kids who were still kids. How do you manage the marriages for that? I've been having huge problems with my dynasty constantly intermarrying if I turn my back for a single year. Heck, one time I assassinated my heir's wife, just of him to remarry another cousin before I could even propose another (non-incestual) marriage for him

    steam_sig.png
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    Brian KrakowBrian Krakow Registered User regular
    Claim probably came from Freula's mother (dynastic heir of the old emperor). Glad to see that marriage paid off.

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    VicVic Registered User regular
    I was worried that starting in Hispania would make for too easy a start and allow us to break the game, but I never anticipated how quickly or far it would go! Can't complain though, this looks like it will continue to be an interesting ride. I pity the poor guy who will be tasked with keeping all that together once this emperor croaks!

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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    My Irish Queen is still going strong. I had to assassinate the Scottish King in order to mess things up for them(he was going to attack soon and had a numbers advantage).

    At the same time I married my daughter into the English royalty with a matrilineal marriage. The English King had 4 sons, two pairs of twins, when the 4th in line finally reached adulthood I made the marriage and started plotting. I had 15 backers to off #3 in line but before that went through my new son-in-law died of pneumonia.... cancel the plot!!!! By this time #2 in line had a son which bumped the twin of now-dead son-in-law down to 4th in line so they would take matrilineal again. Now I have to work my way through the 3 current heirs in order to seize control of England.

    Anyone have some tricks to increase assassination chances? Most of these English heirs start at 25% chance.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Ouch, france isn't doing too hot that game. I saw you gave duchies to your kids who were still kids. How do you manage the marriages for that? I've been having huge problems with my dynasty constantly intermarrying if I turn my back for a single year. Heck, one time I assassinated my heir's wife, just of him to remarry another cousin before I could even propose another (non-incestual) marriage for him

    Set up the betrothal first

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    DuriniaDurinia Evolved from Space Potatoes Registered User regular
    Claim probably came from Freula's mother (dynastic heir of the old emperor). Glad to see that marriage paid off.
    That is correct - Mrs. Blasco did have an inheritable weak claim.

    I would like to point out that Fruela is kicking ass because you all chose Primogeniture when I polled the audience. I doubt I would have chosen him for high school prom king under elective.

    In retrospect, I probably should have shuffled him off to a Bishopric because his stats were so meh. But as it is, we seem like geniuses. ;-)

    For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
    --Mark Twain
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    In my case I ended up missing out on arranging a lot of marriages for them. When they were kids there just weren't any good marriage prospects, and I had so much damn land that had to be given out. I preferred to give out to the dynasty, so that even if they end up breaking apart we'd still have an allied kingdom. Plus all my effort was going towards fightin' Muslims, I really didn't want to risk pissing off a christian kingdom by trying to knock off some of their kids at the time.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Ouch, france isn't doing too hot that game. I saw you gave duchies to your kids who were still kids. How do you manage the marriages for that? I've been having huge problems with my dynasty constantly intermarrying if I turn my back for a single year. Heck, one time I assassinated my heir's wife, just of him to remarry another cousin before I could even propose another (non-incestual) marriage for him

    Set up the betrothal first

    That works for your children, but what about your grandchildren or cousins, who limit you to choosing people from your own court to marry, and even then often refuse matrilineal marriages or being invited to court?

    steam_sig.png
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    If your cousins or kinsmen are living at your court you can always try to invite young single claimants to a throne you want, arrange a marriage in your favor which the claimant will probably agree to since they're unlanded. Then once they produce a valid heir of your dynasty start up a war on behalf of their claim.

    Well, you don't have to wait for an heir, but it's a little embarrassing when your puppet then only has 3 girls and the throne ends up going to his brother or something.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    No, my problem is managing the dynasty. Not only does intermarrying keep cutting down the number of potential dynasty members, it also keeps resulting in difficult to manage super-dukes

    steam_sig.png
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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    I think I might have made a mistake in my marriages... both of my sons are wed to dutchesses or princesses elsewhere and had no land or titles granted to them, they ended up going to the other court because of this I believe.... will they return to become the new King once my ruler dies? I think they will but it's weird having them in another court and not being able to use their skills on my council.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Your heir is still your heir, yes. But the second son won't be returning (unless his wife dies; or ideally you let them have a kid, then murder her, murder the kid, and murder the son).

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    The super dukes will happen no matter what

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    El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    Your heir is still your heir, yes. But the second son won't be returning (unless his wife dies; or ideally you let them have a kid, then murder her, murder the kid, and murder the son).

    ...What a quaint game!
    :rotate:

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    Your heir is still your heir, yes. But the second son won't be returning (unless his wife dies; or ideally you let them have a kid, then murder her, murder the kid, and murder the son).

    ...What a quaint game!
    :rotate:

    and then murder El Skid

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It's the only way to be sure.

    PSN: Honkalot
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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    Your heir is still your heir, yes. But the second son won't be returning (unless his wife dies; or ideally you let them have a kid, then murder her, murder the kid, and murder the son).

    So that's how I get extra territory.... I can deal with that.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    TIFunkaliciousTIFunkalicious Kicking back in NebraskaRegistered User regular
    got stressed, ill, and pneumonia in one week
    took the chance to banish some frighteningly powerful dukes that had taken root in my land, died 1 week later with no chance for rebelliion

    felt pretty cheesey man

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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Something fishy is going on with Duchy borders.

    If you give someone a duchy, and then give them some counties on top of that, from now on that particular duchy will include those extra counties. So now I have one duchy with counties spread all over britain and it's totally weird. The main mass of the duchy is on Ireland - but now the duchy somehow belongs de jure to the Kingdom of Scotland.

    PSN: Honkalot
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Which Duchy?

    There are two ways that can happen:

    1) The Duchy itself is a Scottish Duchy (Argyll, Moray, the Isles, whatever) it just has a bunch of Irish land for whatever reason.
    2) If the Scottish crown holds it (directly or as a vassal) for 100 years its de jure liege will become Scotland.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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