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Medicinal Marijuana: Cash Crop or Soma Substitute?

Che GuevaraChe Guevara __BANNED USERS regular
edited September 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
I've been reading quite a bit lately about the uses of medicinal marijuana.

It's successfully been used in treating the symptoms from everything from glaucoma and MS to cancer and HIV. It also has a great benefit when prescribed for those suffering from chronic stress and anxiety. (Heh... chronic.)

The University of Saskachewan announced as far back as 2005 that a synthetic version of marijuana could actually stimulate brain cell growth, which should have increased funding for further testing.
The team found that rats treated with HU-210 on a regular basis showed neurogenesis the growth of new brain cells in the hippocampus. This region of the brain is associated with learning and memory, as well as anxiety and depression.

The effect is the opposite of most legal and illicit drugs such as alcohol, nicotine, heroin, and cocaine.

"Most 'drugs of abuse' suppress neurogenesis," Zhang says. "Only marijuana promotes neurogenesis."

Marijuana has been used in various cultures for thousands of years. Its only been outlawed for less than a century. Is out-dated thinking stifling what could be medicine's most prolific cash crop from flourishing?

Che Guevara on
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    FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I generally advocate full legalization. Shit, I'd love it if big tabacco mass-produced it; as long as there was still a "premium" market, which I think there would be.

    Fandyien on
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    NordinNordin Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'd support legalisation here in Canada as long as it was an effort to have it government regulated, but produced by private enterprise (like alcohol.) I think the supposed "medicinal" benefits of marijuana are dubious though. As a recreational drug, I could see its use, but as medicine? Not so much. Even looking at the U of S announcment:
    Current theory states that depression may be sparked when too few new brain cells are grown in the hippocampus. It is unclear whether anxiety is part of this process, but if true, HU-210 could offer a treatment for both mood disorders by stimulating the growth of new brain cells.

    But Zhang cautions that HU-210 is only one of many cannabinoids. His previous work with marijuana shows that while the plant may contain medicinal compounds, they come in the same package as those that cause symptoms such as acute memory impairment, addiction, and withdrawal. Also, the HU-210 used in the study is highly purified.
    I can see a future HU-210 based pill to combat depression or anxiety, but if we can synthesize the beneficial part of the drug (in a much more powerful form) without the less desireable parts, what reason would we have to distribute the base form except to please your average stoner?

    Generally speaking though, I think the biggest impediment to legalisation of marijuana is the people who smoke too much of it. We've all seen "that guy"... The complete burnout who insists on telling you about all the magical properties of weed and how great the world would be if only they'd let us smoke it anywhere we wanted. :p

    Full Disclosure:
    I'm a U of S Alumni, I smoked a lot of weed on U of S grounds in my time there, and I haven't touched the stuff in probably 8 years, specifically because I started to feel like a retard every time I did.

    Nordin on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm actually not a pot smoker. Part of that is because my entire family smokes tobacco and is prone to cancer. So, I pretty much just refuse to smoke anything. If there were conclusive tests on marijuana's adverse health effects, I could probably get behind (or against) the movement with more enthusiasm, but nobody can do any tests because the government won't let them!

    All in all, I think it should be legal for medical purposes (it can't be more harmful than oxycontin), and further tested for recreational purposes (alcohol is a harmful recreational drug, so what's the difference?)

    I also don't want "Big Tobacco" involved with it in any way. The last thing we need to do is consumerize it. Cannabinoids are so easy to grow that anybody can make their own. That's probably why tobacco companies are afraid of it and (covertly) oppose pro-marijuana legislation.

    templewulf on
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    Che GuevaraChe Guevara __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Nordin wrote: »
    Generally speaking though, I think the biggest impediment to legalisation of marijuana is the people who smoke too much of it. We've all seen "that guy"... The complete burnout who insists on telling you about all the magical properties of weed and how great the world would be if only they'd let us smoke it anywhere we wanted. :p

    Full Disclosure:
    I'm a U of S Alumni, I smoked a lot of weed on U of S grounds in my time there, and I haven't touched the stuff in probably 8 years, specifically because I started to feel like a retard every time I did.

    I've seen similar examples, but then could provide a much larger data set of alcohol abusers than marijuana.

    I also don't agree with smoking it anywhere we want to. I don't like being stoned around children or heavy equipment. It obviously does to something to your ability to focus and can impair your ability to function. And it makes you a shitty role model.

    But for certain mindless activities, such as exercising or playing musical instruments... you'll find most users attribute a net benefit with very few of the side effects being noticable due to amount of focus being directed at that one mindless activity.

    Compare this to the side effects from most prescription drugs for treating depression or anxiety.

    Che Guevara on
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    FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    templewulf wrote: »
    I also don't want "Big Tobacco" involved with it in any way. The last thing we need to do is consumerize it. Cannabinoids are so easy to grow that anybody can make their own. That's probably why tobacco companies are afraid of it and (covertly) oppose pro-marijuana legislation.

    "Anyone can grow", and "grow something that's good" are two seperate things. It takes a lot of work and patience to develope a product that is superior in quality to what anyone can grow.

    Fellhand on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited September 2007
    Isn't it really easy to grow (as in "not kill the plant", not "get quality product")?

    Echo on
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    FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Isn't it really easy to grow (as in "not kill the plant", not "get quality product")?

    It is a very hardy plant.

    Fellhand on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    All Big Tobacco would accomplish would be finding ways to put cyanide and shit in it

    nexuscrawler on
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    Mmmm... Cocks...Mmmm... Cocks... Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Yea, it's easy as hell to grow. My mom found some weed growing under out deck once.
    Yes, a place where there is practically no light and the seed wasn't even buried.

    Mmmm... Cocks... on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Isn't it really easy to grow (as in "not kill the plant", not "get quality product")?

    It is a very hardy plant.

    It's called "weed" for a reason. It's ridiculously easy to grow. I know somebody who had a plant sprout up in their back yard. Our theory is that it was from a seed dropped while rolling...or something. We don't know. But the point is that it grew without any effort on their part...just like a weed. I also knew somebody who had some land where it just kinda grew naturally. It may well have been planted there at one point, but it was a pain in the ass for them to get it to stop growing there (not wanting to end up on the wrong side of the DEA or something).

    mcdermott on
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    NordinNordin Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    While we could spend the thread bitching about the tobacco industry, I really think there'd be a benefit to legalised marijuana (if we are in fact talking about it as a recreational product, and not medicine) if its production was left in the hands of entrepreneurs rather than the government. As has been stated, even though the plant is easy to grow (and that should be clarified that it's really easy to grow "male" plants,) the industrious province of British Columbia has shown that you can produce some very different effects with various methods. I think competition in the product would be a lot better for consumers than just letting the government produce whatever they felt like (especially considering some of the stories told about their current "medicinal" crop they're growing in old mines.)

    Nordin on
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    GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Isn't it really easy to grow (as in "not kill the plant", not "get quality product")?

    It is a very hardy plant.

    It's called "weed" for a reason.

    A weed is a plant you don't want.



    It ain't a weed.

    Gorak on
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    GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Dandilions are weeds too, and they are good in salads.

    Anyway, I use medical pot for lots of things. In small doses it actually helps me concentrate (I have ADHD) by zoning me out just enough to where I'm not constantly distracted by other things, but not so much that I'm a brain dead retard in la-la-land. It also helps for insomnia and pain (I get bad joint pain in my wrists and lowerback).

    Using medical pot frequently is probably much healthier than popping pain pills or stimulants every day. I use a vaporizer, so the amount of harmful substances I injest are limited.

    Gihgehls on
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    lunasealunasea Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Yea, it's easy as hell to grow. My mom found some weed growing under out deck once.
    Yes, a place where there is practically no light and the seed wasn't even buried.

    A plant won't be able to reach maturity that way, or if it does it will be stunted and inconsumable. Yes, weed is easy to grow. But it's hard to grow well, thats why grow houses and grow ops exist; thats why Amsterdam and British Columbia are flooded with amateur geneticists. I don't think big tobacco will take over the industry, theres already plenty of competition from amateur growers that have spurred a predilection for the good shit. People need to get over the knee-jerk reaction of associating marijuana with burnt out teenagers on couches with cheetos next to their hand. There are responsible smokers out there, contributing and upstanding members of society. I've been smoking marijuana for years and I love it.
    templewulf wrote:
    I also don't want "Big Tobacco" involved with it in any way. The last thing we need to do is consumerize it. Cannabinoids are so easy to grow that anybody can make their own. That's probably why tobacco companies are afraid of it and (covertly) oppose pro-marijuana legislation.

    Cannabinoids are chemicals, not a plant. The largest thing standing in the way of full legalization is the stigma and demonization associated with weed; no thanks to the War on Drugs or the subsequent propaganda thrown at the youth.

    lunasea on
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    InPraisOfBacchusInPraisOfBacchus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I don't see a problem with legalizing it....as long as it's gov't regulated. I think it should have the same restrictions as alcohol. Can't buy it until you're of "legal age", can't drive under it's influence......etc.

    (although....the rumor is, after "big tobacco" is driven out of the US, the lobbyists are gonna try to go after the alcohol industry....sigh)










    Prohibition rocks.

    InPraisOfBacchus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I don't see a problem with legalizing it....as long as it's gov't regulated. I think it should have the same restrictions as alcohol. Can't buy it until you're of "legal age", can't drive under it's influence......etc.

    (although....the rumor is, after "big tobacco" is driven out of the US, the lobbyists are gonna try to go after the alcohol industry....sigh)
    Wait, what the fuck are you talking about?

    Fencingsax on
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    NewresNewres Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I wonder, with all these talk about weed, what is exactly the legality of poppies (Papaver somniferum) ? I mean the stuff you can make from it is guaranteed to fuck you up (opium) but it has non-drug uses too: it's seeds(?) are pretty tasty in cakes and with noodles.

    Newres on
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    IShallRiseAgainIShallRiseAgain Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If you actually look at the article, it is stated that marijuana is actually not healthy for you in its pure form. Just because you can derive something helpful from something doesn't mean the whole is good for you. like newres said Poppy seeds are harmless, but it comes from the same plants that make opium. This is not proof that marijuana is good for you. It sounds like a new medicine needs to be made, and not have people smoke the stuff straight.

    IShallRiseAgain on
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    DefunkerDefunker Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think the pro-pot people are going in the wrong direction by trying to get medical use legalized first.

    Just out and say it people; we want cannabis to be legal again.

    Defunker on
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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I've heard too many stoners say they have a "condition" and claim marijuana is the only thing that helps. If you want to sit around and get stoned, just say so. People don't try to claim beer cures herpies or something.

    dispatch.o on
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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I don't see a problem with legalizing it....as long as it's gov't regulated. I think it should have the same restrictions as alcohol. Can't buy it until you're of "legal age", can't drive under it's influence......etc.

    (although....the rumor is, after "big tobacco" is driven out of the US, the lobbyists are gonna try to go after the alcohol industry....sigh)
    Wait, what the fuck are you talking about?

    Dude, there's people out there who want to ban condoms and dancing. Why be surprised?

    The Cat on
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    InPraisOfBacchusInPraisOfBacchus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I don't see a problem with legalizing it....as long as it's gov't regulated. I think it should have the same restrictions as alcohol. Can't buy it until you're of "legal age", can't drive under it's influence......etc.

    (although....the rumor is, after "big tobacco" is driven out of the US, the lobbyists are gonna try to go after the alcohol industry....sigh)
    Wait, what the fuck are you talking about?

    Click http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/controversies/1124913901.html for some info on what I'm talking about. They're basically trying to start it just like the partial ban on cigarettes was started.

    InPraisOfBacchus on
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    SnoopyTRBSnoopyTRB Registered User new member
    edited September 2007
    I don't think cigarettes are going anywhere, they tried prohibition too, it didn't work that well.

    As to the topic at hand, I think they should legalize simply for the fact that it destroys the profits of the drug runners and it can be more carefully regulated so it is not as harmful as that dime bag you get on the corner that's been cut with god knows what. Do they do that with marijuana?

    So, legalize it, tax it, lower my taxes, everyone is happy!

    SnoopyTRB on
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If marijuana is legalized, won't that mean the envelope is pushed and heroin becomes the 'new' marijuana? I'm just thinking out loud - I have no evidence - but won't thrill seekers in college and at clubs ignore weed if it's legal and go for the harder stuff just across the line? There is a drug hierarchy.

    Actually, that'd be interesting to look up. When they had prohibition back in the day for alcohol, did recreational drug use decline because people were attracted to illegal hooch then?

    emnmnme on
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I don't think people smoke weed because it's illegal.

    No one is going to switch to HEROIN because weed is suddenly legalized.

    Aridhol on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    If marijuana is legalized, won't that mean the envelope is pushed and heroin becomes the 'new' marijuana? I'm just thinking out loud - I have no evidence - but won't thrill seekers in college and at clubs ignore weed if it's legal and go for the harder stuff just across the line? There is a drug hierarchy.

    Actually, that'd be interesting to look up. When they had prohibition back in the day for alcohol, did recreational drug use decline because people were attracted to illegal hooch then?
    Those sorts of personalities wouldn't really stick to taking Marijuana all that long anyway.

    Fencingsax on
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Wow, heroin was only made illegal in 1924. I thought it had always been illegal in the States.

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg09.htm

    emnmnme on
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    AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Bayer-heroin.jpg

    Adrien on
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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    If marijuana is legalized, won't that mean the envelope is pushed and heroin becomes the 'new' marijuana? I'm just thinking out loud - I have no evidence - but won't thrill seekers in college and at clubs ignore weed if it's legal and go for the harder stuff just across the line? There is a drug hierarchy.

    Actually, that'd be interesting to look up. When they had prohibition back in the day for alcohol, did recreational drug use decline because people were attracted to illegal hooch then?

    No?

    If you've ever tried a harder drug, you might really find you don't like it. I've known a lot of people who started out smoking pot, went to something else and said "fuck that noise, back to pot I go!".

    Pot is illegal because unlike tobacco it can be grown in your back yard with a garden hose and a couple of germinated seeds. Tobacco companies spent a lot of money back in the 50's convincing people that black people who smoked pot ran off and raped white women.

    At the end of the day, there's no reason marijuana shouldn't be legal. It's not physically addictive, it's impossible to overdose and it doesn't have the same affect on judgment that alcohol does. People don't get massively stoned and then go tip over cars and throw bottles at each other. They go eat twinkies and shit.

    dispatch.o on
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    KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I wonder if things will change now that politicians are increasingly made up of age groups that should, in theory, have smoked weed. So far I'm not hopeful, based on what i've seen.

    Kalkino on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    bush and clinton were from "generations that smoked weed".

    Sam on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Sam wrote: »
    bush and clinton were from "generations that smoked weed".

    So is a large portion of Congress, unless I'm mistaken. Which I'm guessing the "based on what I've seen" is coming from. I think largely it's a case of "I don't want my kids to make the same mistakes I did," only played out on the national level. And with the legal system. And with prison sentences instead of groundings.

    mcdermott on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    bush and clinton were from "generations that smoked weed".

    So is a large portion of Congress, unless I'm mistaken. Which I'm guessing the "based on what I've seen" is coming from. I think largely it's a case of "I don't want my kids to make the same mistakes I did," only played out on the national level. And with the legal system. And with prison sentences instead of groundings.
    Unfortunately, most of them don't realize that it wasn't the smoking pot that was a mistake, but their complete douchebaggery.

    Fencingsax on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Biggest trouble with weed to me these days it's it's dosages. It's gotten too damn strong it's impossible to get just a little high anymore unless you're a career smoker.

    nexuscrawler on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I hear that, had a single toke a couple weeks ago at a party and felt like I was flying, instead of just mellowing. Although now that I think on it, it was eerily similar to my first experience 10 years ago.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I hear that, had a single toke a couple weeks ago at a party and felt like I was flying, instead of just mellowing. Although now that I think on it, it was eerily similar to my first experience 10 years ago.

    Did your whole body deflate or did you kill your friend with a pistol?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxjI8BhJDk

    emnmnme on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I hear that, had a single toke a couple weeks ago at a party and felt like I was flying, instead of just mellowing. Although now that I think on it, it was eerily similar to my first experience 10 years ago.

    Did your whole body deflate or did you kill your friend with a pistol?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxjI8BhJDk

    I tried to outrun some junkyard dogs with my fist stuck in my mouth.

    nexuscrawler on
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    FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Pot is illegal because unlike tobacco it can be grown in your back yard with a garden hose and a couple of germinated seeds. Tobacco companies spent a lot of money back in the 50's convincing people that black people who smoked pot ran off and raped white women.

    Actually, there is reason to believe that the ban happened due to hemp's possible use as a textile and how Dupont and other companies feared it would hurt profits. There are also the racial underpinnings as well.

    Fellhand on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I hear that, had a single toke a couple weeks ago at a party and felt like I was flying, instead of just mellowing. Although now that I think on it, it was eerily similar to my first experience 10 years ago.

    Did your whole body deflate or did you kill your friend with a pistol?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxjI8BhJDk

    I tried to outrun some junkyard dogs with my fist stuck in my mouth.

    Not quite, I just got really chatty and decided to teach some of the other guys how to socially engineer the drunk/high girls into getting naked and engaging in faux lesbianism for our entertainment. I quickly lost interest in that and took one of the girls to a hotel, watching is never as much fun as playing.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Biggest trouble with weed to me these days it's it's dosages. It's gotten too damn strong it's impossible to get just a little high anymore unless you're a career smoker.

    Legalisation can fix that. If you go into a coffee shop in Amsterdam, you get a menu with info on the different strains and a guy serving you who can give you advice.

    Gorak on
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