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[Doctor Who] Calling it now, River Song is Mrs. Claus

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    well, maybe Nic Cage would not have been my choice

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    well, maybe Nic Cage would not have been my choice

    nic cage and christopher eccleston are the only two living people that could reasonably be expected to portray number 6 in the modern day

    it is a good fit

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I cede the point to you

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    MetroidZoidMetroidZoid Registered User regular
    8th-Jeff-Goldblum.jpg

    Yessss ... *random noises*

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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Why (in the real world) did Eleven get a second new console room, anyway? I wasn't watching the show at that point. There were rumors in PRivate Eye during Smith's first season that that console room was really hard to film in and had caused delays, but I'm not about to just go believing Private Eye about everything.

    Well 11's tenure lasted literally hundreds of years. 100-200 years just from impossible astronaut to wedding of river song, its suggested that he went long periods (relative)inbetween visits with Amy in the first half of the last season, and who knows how long he was sulking after Amy's permanent leaving before he was stirred out of it.

    I think the only other doctor that had that kind of duration might have been 7 (since we dont know how much time passed from end of 7's series to the movie). we dont know how long inbetween the movie and war doctor either but we know nothing of the tardis layout from that era.



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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »

    All of those are great.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    I was skeptical as the list loaded but I am now 100% behind it. I might switch 7 and 8 though.

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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    I had to stop reading for a moment when I hit Gene Wilder as the 4th; not out of disgust but out of sheer amazement. If anyone is going to be able to replace the crazy eyes on Tom Baker, it is indeed Gene Wilder. Just had to take that in before I could continue.

    And now I'm trying to picture dialogue from Doctor Who as spoken by Christopher Walken. This could occupy my afternoon.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    The thing about Six is there's no way you could cast him any worse.

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Actually I'm not crazy about Shalhoub being in there

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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    Shaloub is really talented when given the opportunity.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    I think they were looking for a little weird guy similar to McCoy. Not hot on him being during that period though.

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    CyvrosCyvros Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    The thing about Six is there's no way you could cast him any worse.

    I don't have any issues with Colin Baker's casting (apart from the fact that he was cast primarily because he was a blast at a party JNT once went to). All my issues with Six come from production and scripting decisions: everything from JNT insisting on that costume (and even making it more garish than the original design was) to messing up the planned character arc for Six to the BBC prematurely ending his contract. Trial made me like the Sixth Doctor, then his Big Finish audios made me like him a lot more.

    Incidentally, speaking of his costume, this is apparently more along the lines of what Baker originally wanted (this being a photograph of that custom on Baker's bookshelf).

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Even Six just after regeneration put me off. Colin Baker just mugging as hard as he could into the camera. I'll admit I haven't watched much of his run, but I took an instant dislike to the performance.

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    CyvrosCyvros Registered User regular
    That's fair enough. So did I. Because of his short tenure, the proportion of bad stories and bad acting to good is--how should I put this--regrettable. Stories like Vengeance on Varos and the webcast Real Time give a better feel for what could've been.

    Semi-related: JNT's insistence on reaction shot cliffhangers was dumb. It made a lot of average cliffhangers throughout the '80s awful. Exhibit A:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ZzXDGD-_A

    Exhibit B: every cliffhanger in Trial of a Time Lord.

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    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    I think Neil Patrick Harris would have made a great 11th Doctor.

    Don Glover rules but I don't see him as enough of an analogue. I'd totally watch him in a sci-fi comedy series where he had adventures through space and time though.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I recently finished Series 3, and I would like to make a brief list to defend Martha. I understand the complaints, but I think people are too harsh on her.

    1) She doesn't cry all the time. There was no specific instance where it was unreasonable for Rose to cry, but there was seriously too much crying.

    2) She's more capable and resourceful than Rose. Look at how she Rose needs to be rescued (specifically, not as part of the entire planet dying or whatever) and causes problems compared to Martha, who really only needs to be rescued in Gridlock and she never triggers calamity. To be fair to Rose, when I was her age (and even today) I would probably get myself killed, like, immediately, but Martha is still more aware of her surroundings. She also compares very favorably to Amy getting herself into trouble. And while Rose may have briefly become a god, all she really needed was a tow truck. I feel like being on the run for a year is more difficult, even if the Master was a dick about it. And even the Doctor seems to acknowledge this, he is much more overtly thankful to her than he usually is when people do things for him.

    3) She's one of the few companions to not get screwed over. That's because they wanted her on Torchwood, but it still counts.

    4) Her leather jacket is cool, and the consistent look is much better than Billie Piper apparently throwing on the first thing she grabbed out of her closet that day.

    5) We don't spend ages of screen time with her mother and boyfriend. There were some good scenes with Jackie and Micky, but on the whole I really don't care. They're not very interesting characters, and I am watching Doctor Who for adventures in time and space, not family drama.

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    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    I've been toughing-out Torchwood so I can get to the Martha Jones episodes.

    It hasn't been a walk in the park but I'll make it.

    Martha just really connected with me for some reason, and I liked that she had medical training and leadership abilities instead of playing damsel or getting overly-aggressive from time to time.

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    ApocalyptusApocalyptus Registered User regular
    I personally think Martha was a great companion. They did focus a bit too much on her unrequited crush on the Doctor, but it did reinforce how much of a dick he was to her throughout her whole time with him (e.g. talking about how awesome Rose is all the time, and knowing she has a crush on him and not addressing it). Just watching the Family of Blood two-parter is a huge example of how loyal and resourceful she is, protecting the Doctor while having to put up with a shitload of racism and horrible treatment, some of it from his human self.

    Plus she has the realisation that their relationship isn't ever going to progress past being ridiculously one-sided, so she does the adult thing and leaves to live her own life.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I think Martha was a potentially good companion who was given poor material. I also think it was bullshit A. that they brought up her race multiple times B. that she was paired off with the only other person of colour in Doctor Who.

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    ApocalyptusApocalyptus Registered User regular
    That was weird how she was paired up with Mickey without them having had any real interaction before, then again before that happened I had also heard people complain about the racial implications of her being engaged to another white guy after the Doctor.
    Maybe they should just have not felt the need to have her in a relationship in order to give her a 'happy ending' as if that were the only life event that could accomplish one.

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    She already had a husband!

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    Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »

    Maybe if the American TV actor/film actor dichotomy didn't exist, sure.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    I gues any list like that is going to be made-up nonsense by definitino, of course, but yeah. If there had been an American Doctor Who from the sixties onward, you wouldn't be having no movie stars in it. You'd be getting character actors and TV stalwarts.

    That' why favorite choices on that list were Burgess meredith, Vincent Price and young Kyle Maclachlan. It'd be fun to make a list with more choices in that vein, even if you run the risk of people not knowing who, say, John Fiedler is.

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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    I know hes not exactly American, but Patrick Stewart woulda been a good doctor.

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    Patrick Stewart would be an incredible stand-in for William Hartnell.

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    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    edited February 2014
    He's from England. He could on the actual show instead of the American fantasy alternate universe version of the show.

    TankHammer on
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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    No I meant the actual show. Like if they wanted to have the 12th Doctor meet the 1st or something. Put him in a white wig and I think he'd look even more the part than David Bradley.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2014
    My eyes have been getting worse again so I've been listening to some of the Big Finish audioplays with Paul McGann, starting with the beginning and working my way forward in order.

    These are....hm. I should say that McGann himself is terrific and I enjoy the Eighth Doctor's characterization very much, both here in and in the novels I've read. The TV movie was weird and stupid and goofy in a lot of ways; the ostensible main character spends the first hour dead or amnesiac, which is a fairly bad way to leave an impression of a character - but they cast McGann, which was a coup, and they did him up as a Byronic, type which was a moment of authentic genius.

    Because, firstly, we're all familiar with that type of Romantic poet archetype - passionate, feeling joys and losses deeply, a wounded idealist, a lover of culture, and so forth. Give a man floppy hair, a posh accent, and nineteenth-century clothes and you're halfway there to explaining this person to your audience. You could see the Eighth Doctor doing space laudanum and writing 4-D poetry.

    The second reason it works so well is that it's an archetype the various Doctors had always kind of orbited, visually and conceptually - a bohemian mad scientist in cricket clothes or a dramatic Edwardian cape or whatever - but had never quite touched down on fully. It makes the Eighth feel almost archetypally Doctory, like the distillation of everything that had come before.

    And that's cool. I like that! But the actual stories so far are just...very strange. On the one hand, they cleave very closely, almost weirdly so, to some of the structure of the classic series. They're all done as four-episode serials with somewhat perfunctory cliffhangers, for instance, and every script seems to have been someone's idea for a TV show; they have limited casts (which is as understandable in audio as it is anywhere else) but a strange, mulish insistence on reusing locales as if they were making a TV show and had to save on the cost of sets. So just like old Who, the stories have lots of - I'm American, so I always shy away from using UK-isms like "faffing about" cause it sounds kind of tryhardy, but that is a good term for it - faffing about between the palace and the dungeon and back to the palace and back to the dungeon and then to the cathedral and then back to the palace and it's like jesus christ dudes this is audio, you can go from the Mayan pyramids to a 70s New York subway if you want.

    But just as odd as the ways the audios stick to the format of the old series are the strange ways they choose to depart from it. The Earthbound stories (Storm Warning, Stones of Venice, and Minuet in Hell) all appear to be taking place in alternate universes. The first story is set in the 30s but seems to have almost nothing connecting it to the real world of the 30s; the second is set in future Venice but has dukes and maked balls and gondolas, and the third story is set in a fictitious Southern state called "Malebolgia," because people from the South would totally name a state "Satan."

    Stones of Venice and Minuet in Hell both feature magic and curses as plot points - handwaved away sometimes as "psychic poers" but other times apparently just acknowledged by the Doctor as real - and Minuet in Hell also has a guest appearance by a thinly-disguised Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

    I know the Virgin New Adventures novels also had a lot of stuff about magic and how the Time Lords had driven out the old gods of the universe or somehting, and these feel like stories influenced heavily by that continuity.

    Put all that together and the word I keep coming back to is "fanfic." These audios feel like someone got some actors to read theri fanfic. And I mean, it's not terrible fanfic. The writers don't do violence to the concept of the Doctor and they give him a lot of good lines nad there are fun callbacks and so forth and that's nice. But the plots so far have all felt weirdly sloppy and underdeveloped, and they feel sloppy and underdeveloped in a way that says to me "Hello, I know a lot about Doctor Who but maybe not nearly so much about the broader genres of science fiction or adventure fiction. Look, it's Buffy!"

    And then, during the course of writing this post, I went and read the skimpy WIkipedia entries for these four stories, and it turns out that two of them are remakes of homemade fan audio dramas from the 1980s. So there you go.

    Jacobkosh on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Butler wrote: »
    No I meant the actual show. Like if they wanted to have the 12th Doctor meet the 1st or something. Put him in a white wig and I think he'd look even more the part than David Bradley.

    I think they should absolutely bring David Bradley into the main show as the first doctor.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    I am all for anything with multiple doctors.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Hugh Laurie with Peter Capaldi.

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    My eyes have been getting worse again so I've been listening to some of the Big Finish audioplays with Paul McGann, starting with the beginning and working my way forward in order.

    These are....hm. I should say that McGann himself is terrific and I enjoy the Eighth Doctor's characterization very much, both here in and in the novels I've read. The TV movie was weird and stupid and goofy in a lot of ways; the ostensible main character spends the first hour dead or amnesiac, which is a fairly bad way to leave an impression of a character - but they cast McGann, which was a coup, and they did him up as a Byronic, type which was a moment of authentic genius.

    Because, firstly, we're all familiar with that type of Romantic poet archetype - passionate, feeling joys and losses deeply, a wounded idealist, a lover of culture, and so forth. Give a man floppy hair, a posh accent, and nineteenth-century clothes and you're halfway there to explaining this person to your audience. You could see the Eighth Doctor doing space laudanum and writing 4-D poetry.

    The second reason it works so well is that it's an archetype the various Doctors had always kind of orbited, visually and conceptually - a bohemian mad scientist in cricket clothes or a dramatic Edwardian cape or whatever - but had never quite touched down on fully. It makes the Eighth feel almost archetypally Doctory, like the distillation of everything that had come before.

    And that's cool. I like that! But the actual stories so far are just...very strange. On the one hand, they cleave very closely, almost weirdly so, to some of the structure of the classic series. They're all done as four-episode serials with somewhat perfunctory cliffhangers, for instance, and every script seems to have been someone's idea for a TV show; they have limited casts (which is as understandable in audio as it is anywhere else) but a strange, mulish insistence on reusing locales as if they were making a TV show and had to save on the cost of sets. So just like old Who, the stories have lots of - I'm American, so I always shy away from using UK-isms like "faffing about" cause it sounds kind of tryhardy, but that is a good term for it - faffing about between the palace and the dungeon and back to the palace and back to the dungeon and then to the cathedral and then back to the palace and it's like jesus christ dudes this is audio, you can go from the Mayan pyramids to a 70s New York subway if you want.

    But just as odd as the ways the audios stick to the format of the old series are the strange ways they choose to depart from it. The Earthbound stories (Storm Warning, Stones of Venice, and Minuet in Hell) all appear to be taking place in alternate universes. The first story is set in the 30s but seems to have almost nothing connecting it to the real world of the 30s; the second is set in future Venice but has dukes and maked balls and gondolas, and the third story is set in a fictitious Southern state called "Malebolgia," because people from the South would totally name a state "Satan."

    Stones of Venice and Minuet in Hell both feature magic and curses as plot points - handwaved away sometimes as "psychic poers" but other times apparently just acknowledged by the Doctor as real - and Minuet in Hell also has a guest appearance by a thinly-disguised Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

    I know the Virgin New Adventures novels also had a lot of stuff about magic and how the Time Lords had driven out the old gods of the universe or somehting, and these feel like stories influenced heavily by that continuity.

    Put all that together and the word I keep coming back to is "fanfic." These audios feel like someone got some actors to read theri fanfic. And I mean, it's not terrible fanfic. The writers don't do violence to the concept of the Doctor and they give him a lot of good lines nad there are fun callbacks and so forth and that's nice. But the plots so far have all felt weirdly sloppy and underdeveloped, and they feel sloppy and underdeveloped in a way that says to me "Hello, I know a lot about Doctor Who but maybe not nearly so much about the broader genres of science fiction or adventure fiction. Look, it's Buffy!"

    And then, during the course of writing this post, I went and read the skimpy WIkipedia entries for these four stories, and it turns out that two of them are remakes of homemade fan audio dramas from the 1980s. So there you go.

    Have you listened to Dark Eyes? I've heard nothing but near-orgasmic praise for it, ditto for Dark Eyes 2 which came out just recently.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Butler wrote: »
    No I meant the actual show. Like if they wanted to have the 12th Doctor meet the 1st or something. Put him in a white wig and I think he'd look even more the part than David Bradley.

    I think they should absolutely bring David Bradley into the main show as the first doctor.

    I seriously thought that was a missed opportunity for the 50th.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Butler wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    My eyes have been getting worse again so I've been listening to some of the Big Finish audioplays with Paul McGann, starting with the beginning and working my way forward in order.

    These are....hm. I should say that McGann himself is terrific and I enjoy the Eighth Doctor's characterization very much, both here in and in the novels I've read. The TV movie was weird and stupid and goofy in a lot of ways; the ostensible main character spends the first hour dead or amnesiac, which is a fairly bad way to leave an impression of a character - but they cast McGann, which was a coup, and they did him up as a Byronic, type which was a moment of authentic genius.

    Because, firstly, we're all familiar with that type of Romantic poet archetype - passionate, feeling joys and losses deeply, a wounded idealist, a lover of culture, and so forth. Give a man floppy hair, a posh accent, and nineteenth-century clothes and you're halfway there to explaining this person to your audience. You could see the Eighth Doctor doing space laudanum and writing 4-D poetry.

    The second reason it works so well is that it's an archetype the various Doctors had always kind of orbited, visually and conceptually - a bohemian mad scientist in cricket clothes or a dramatic Edwardian cape or whatever - but had never quite touched down on fully. It makes the Eighth feel almost archetypally Doctory, like the distillation of everything that had come before.

    And that's cool. I like that! But the actual stories so far are just...very strange. On the one hand, they cleave very closely, almost weirdly so, to some of the structure of the classic series. They're all done as four-episode serials with somewhat perfunctory cliffhangers, for instance, and every script seems to have been someone's idea for a TV show; they have limited casts (which is as understandable in audio as it is anywhere else) but a strange, mulish insistence on reusing locales as if they were making a TV show and had to save on the cost of sets. So just like old Who, the stories have lots of - I'm American, so I always shy away from using UK-isms like "faffing about" cause it sounds kind of tryhardy, but that is a good term for it - faffing about between the palace and the dungeon and back to the palace and back to the dungeon and then to the cathedral and then back to the palace and it's like jesus christ dudes this is audio, you can go from the Mayan pyramids to a 70s New York subway if you want.

    But just as odd as the ways the audios stick to the format of the old series are the strange ways they choose to depart from it. The Earthbound stories (Storm Warning, Stones of Venice, and Minuet in Hell) all appear to be taking place in alternate universes. The first story is set in the 30s but seems to have almost nothing connecting it to the real world of the 30s; the second is set in future Venice but has dukes and maked balls and gondolas, and the third story is set in a fictitious Southern state called "Malebolgia," because people from the South would totally name a state "Satan."

    Stones of Venice and Minuet in Hell both feature magic and curses as plot points - handwaved away sometimes as "psychic poers" but other times apparently just acknowledged by the Doctor as real - and Minuet in Hell also has a guest appearance by a thinly-disguised Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

    I know the Virgin New Adventures novels also had a lot of stuff about magic and how the Time Lords had driven out the old gods of the universe or somehting, and these feel like stories influenced heavily by that continuity.

    Put all that together and the word I keep coming back to is "fanfic." These audios feel like someone got some actors to read theri fanfic. And I mean, it's not terrible fanfic. The writers don't do violence to the concept of the Doctor and they give him a lot of good lines nad there are fun callbacks and so forth and that's nice. But the plots so far have all felt weirdly sloppy and underdeveloped, and they feel sloppy and underdeveloped in a way that says to me "Hello, I know a lot about Doctor Who but maybe not nearly so much about the broader genres of science fiction or adventure fiction. Look, it's Buffy!"

    And then, during the course of writing this post, I went and read the skimpy WIkipedia entries for these four stories, and it turns out that two of them are remakes of homemade fan audio dramas from the 1980s. So there you go.

    Have you listened to Dark Eyes? I've heard nothing but near-orgasmic praise for it, ditto for Dark Eyes 2 which came out just recently.

    i have not! I've only listened to six audio stories so far and they've all been in order from the beginning. It might be worth me skipping ahead to check out Dark Eyes if it's a lot better, though

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    CyvrosCyvros Registered User regular
    I seem to recall The Chimes of Midnight was quite good. I've heard good things about Sword of Orion and The Time of the Daleks, too.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Sword of Orion was in the first batch of four that I listened to and was probably the best of the lot. It was another one of the reused fan-scripts from the 80s but did a very credible reenactment of one of those Davison-era space opera stories with lots of lasers and a high body count.

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    Well this just came right outta left field!

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    I've been reading some Doctor Who novels, starting with the 50th anniversary collection, and by a mile the best so far is Only Human, which is a Ninth Doctor story by Gareth Roberts. He absolutely nails the characters' voices (unsurprising given that he wrote for the show) and it's a really interesting story to boot. All the other DW books I've read so far have only managed one of those two.

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