There's a pretty big difference between "fake government making a huge mistake that almost destroys the world" and "fake government making the a huge mistake and almost destroying the world, then making the same mistake again every year." That's crosses the line between allegory and outright parody.
There's a pretty big difference between "fake government making a huge mistake that almost destroys the world" and "fake government making the a huge mistake and almost destroying the world, then making the same mistake again every year." That's crosses the line between allegory and outright parody.
I disagree, and specified why earlier. I will not continue this line as a mod has asked for us to stop discussing real world events.
As such I am not able to go indepth as to my disagreement, and said as much above. I would appreciate it if you did not continue to try to bring me into a line of discussion I have already stated that I cannot continue due to mod fiat.
So.. bets on how many years we'll have to suffer without a Carol Danvers movie?
My guess is it'll be one of the untitled six films slated for 2017-2019.
Quite possible, though I'd say it's probably towards the end of that spectrum
2016
Cap 3 - Confirmed
Dr. Strange - Highly Likely, all but confirmed at this point
2017
Thor 3 - Confirmed in development, date is my guess
GotG 2 - Confirmed
??? - Currently Inhumans is looking likely, could be anything at this point, though
2018
Avengers 3 - Confirmed in development, Fiege said no later than 2018 probably
???
???
2019
???
Fiege also said they wanted at least one new IP per year. Extrapolating out from their current plans, I would wager the future looks something like this (pulling things out of my butt, kinda)
If they keep with 3 films a year, and an Avengers flick every 3 years, Phase 4 would be 9 films (2 in '18, 3 in '19 and '20 each, and then Avengers 4 in 2021). If they do not do any "part 4's" aside from the Avengers, but do sequels to any film that hasn't gotten a part 3 yet, we'd be looking at
1. GotG 3
2. Dr. Strange 2
3. Ant-Man 2
4. "Inhumans" 2 (if they do an Inhumans 1)
In addition, at least 3 films are desired to be new ip's, so that's 5-7. That leaves a slot for at least one more film, so let's new IP that one too for now for a total of four. (Though I guess they could do Hulk 2). I think the three most likely candidates are Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and perhaps Black Widow. Those are the three we've heard the most chatter about. We'll have to wait a few years before we start hearing about other possibilities.
So yeah, I'm guessing not in 2017, but I'm optimistic about 2018-2020 since there's a good chance there is room. At least until we start hearing them talk about wanting to go back to Ghost Rider or Punisher, or wanting to do films about Moon Knight or Nova.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Runaways is always "in development," though I don't know at this point if that's like Big Hero 6 where it's a Disney thing.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
She's actually the perfect character to get introduced in another movie before becoming a superhero. She's an Air Force pilot and officer, so you could insert her as the normal viewpoint character in any number of robot holocaust/alien invasion/mass Inhuman sprouting scenarios.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
The rumor I heard is that Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel was in the script for Age of Ultron, but at the last minute they decided to cut her because Marvel started to feel that she deserved to be introduced in her own movie rather than showing up for a single scene in AoU.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
Fan demand is why they're even talking Captain Marvel right now. Fiege has said that he gets more questions about her and Black Panther than for movies like Avengers 3 or Iron Man 4.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
Sony has a "female led Spider-Man spinoff" scheduled for 2017, but they'll probably fuck it up, so I could see not counting them
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I've heard rumors that Captain Marvel was to be in Avengers 1. I think comic movie rumors are now as rampant as regular comic rumors, which makes it all the worse.
The fan clamoring, to me at least, seems to be motivated as less of a demand for Carol and more for just a female superhero movie. Which, if Marvel wanted to, would make a Black Widow movie first because she has a lot greater chance to succeed and build off of compared to a new MCU character.
I keep thinking she'll be the new character in Avengers 3, the "wildcard" to fight Thanos, so to speak.
"Lucy" is practically a petition by Scarlett Johansson for a Black Widow movie. "Lucy" basically says, "if a mid budget (or maybe low by today's standards) movie that wasn't even that good can make a hefty profit, imagine how much money a big budget Black Widow movie can make."
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
Fan demand is why they're even talking Captain Marvel right now. Fiege has said that he gets more questions about her and Black Panther than for movies like Avengers 3 or Iron Man 4.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
Sony has a "female led Spider-Man spinoff" scheduled for 2017, but they'll probably fuck it up, so I could see not counting them
If it isn't "Gwen Stacey alternate timeline spiderman" I will be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.
Feige claims that the movies are already planned through 2028. And given a script was created for Danvers it's likely more a matter of when rather than if.
Also considering Marvel's current run they're probably not concerned about being the first studio to put out a major super hero movie with a female lead so much as being the first studio to do it right.
I've heard rumors that Captain Marvel was to be in Avengers 1. I think comic movie rumors are now as rampant as regular comic rumors, which makes it all the worse.
The fan clamoring, to me at least, seems to be motivated as less of a demand for Carol and more for just a female superhero movie. Which, if Marvel wanted to, would make a Black Widow movie first because she has a lot greater chance to succeed and build off of compared to a new MCU character.
I keep thinking she'll be the new character in Avengers 3, the "wildcard" to fight Thanos, so to speak.
I'm pretty sure it was Wasp who was supposed to be in Avengers 1. There's storyboards and quotes from Whedon.
Feige claims that the movies are already planned through 2028. And given a script was created for Danvers it's likely more a matter of when rather than if.
Also considering Marvel's current run they're probably not concerned about being the first studio to put out a major super hero movie with a female lead so much as being the first studio to do it right.
Also considering Marvel's current run they're probably not concerned about being the first studio to put out a major super hero movie with a female lead so much as being the first studio to do it right.
This is what I wish fans (especially those 1000 twitter people who are probably bombarding Feige on twitter everyday about it) would get; Marvel's been pretty solid with the plan they have right now, and while they haven't had that many female heroes yet it's not like they've yet to create a bad female character. So just kind of chill out because this simmering, almost apparent outrage at the lack of a female movie is misplaced, ya feel me fam?
Gordon Bombay was great at leading Team USA in the Goodwill Games, but let outside forces influence him and change his style and attitude, and because of that they nearly got eliminated after being destroyed by Iceland because they were so shook up! Focus more on getting Greg Land fired from their books or something.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
Fan demand is why they're even talking Captain Marvel right now. Fiege has said that he gets more questions about her and Black Panther than for movies like Avengers 3 or Iron Man 4.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
Sony has a "female led Spider-Man spinoff" scheduled for 2017, but they'll probably fuck it up, so I could see not counting them
If it isn't "Gwen Stacey alternate timeline spiderman" I will be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.
FUCK
I just imagined alternate universe Emma Stone Spider-Woman.
Also considering Marvel's current run they're probably not concerned about being the first studio to put out a major super hero movie with a female lead so much as being the first studio to do it right.
This is what I wish fans (especially those 1000 twitter people who are probably bombarding Feige on twitter everyday about it) would get; Marvel's been pretty solid with the plan they have right now, and while they haven't had that many female heroes yet it's not like they've yet to create a bad female character. So just kind of chill out because this simmering, almost apparent outrage at the lack of a female movie is misplaced, ya feel me fam?
Gordon Bombay was great at leading Team USA in the Goodwill Games, but let outside forces influence him and change his style and attitude, and because of that they nearly got eliminated after being destroyed by Iceland because they were so shook up! Focus more on getting Greg Land fired from their books or something.
But is it really that hard to do a female superhero movie "right?" Is there some magical ingredient that requires 5 extra years of development?
It's not like they're taking all this time to develop a Captain Marvel movie for years. Presumably, they'll spend just as much time on Captain Marvel as they do on their other movies.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
She's actually the perfect character to get introduced in another movie before becoming a superhero. She's an Air Force pilot and officer, so you could insert her as the normal viewpoint character in any number of robot holocaust/alien invasion/mass Inhuman sprouting scenarios.
Put her in a supporting role or cameo in Captain America 3 or Thor 3 then as a normal person and save her origin for her solo movie. They don't need to put her with the Inhumans.
But is it really that hard to do a female superhero movie "right?" Is there some magical ingredient that requires 5 extra years of development?
It's not like they're taking all this time to develop a Captain Marvel movie for years. Presumably, they'll spend just as much time on Captain Marvel as they do on their other movies.
Since they don't have a problem with changing the origins of characters, I wouldn't be surprised if they put Captain Marvel in the Inhumans movie.
I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
Fan demand is why they're even talking Captain Marvel right now. Fiege has said that he gets more questions about her and Black Panther than for movies like Avengers 3 or Iron Man 4.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
Sony has a "female led Spider-Man spinoff" scheduled for 2017, but they'll probably fuck it up, so I could see not counting them
If it isn't "Gwen Stacey alternate timeline spiderman" I will be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.
FUCK
I just imagined alternate universe Emma Stone Spider-Woman.
This is what I wish fans (especially those 1000 twitter people who are probably bombarding Feige on twitter everyday about it) would get; Marvel's been pretty solid with the plan they have right now, and while they haven't had that many female heroes yet it's not like they've yet to create a bad female character. So just kind of chill out because this simmering, almost apparent outrage at the lack of a female movie is misplaced, ya feel me fam?
We've been chilling for 6 years and we have nothing to show it. It's not wrong to be frustrated how Marvel hasn't had a single movie with a female or minority lead, thy have millions of characters to choose from but they end up all having two things in common: white and male. Their track record with minorities and female characters isn't appalling, if flawed, which is why this is odd behavior that otherwise has an ok history except in solo movies and their team movies have been lacking as of late.
They're going to add another woman in Avengers 2 but they aren't getting a minority any time soon.
Guardians had two minorities, which is an improvement. Unfortunately Gamora got the least interesting characterization and arc in the movie, which was disappointing.
Dr. Strange will probably get a movie before Carol does. I love Stephen Strange but Marvel has had plenty of solo movies with white super-heroes, it's time for them to stop dancing around their minority and female problems, because this is going to get worse the longer it takes to get them on screen.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
To be honest, I don't see Marvel movies having a women or minority problem.
And I think looking at it from a white dude standpoint is a bit off. It's not what they are it's their origins, which is something Carol has a problem with compared to Strange, BP, even Black Widow. Soldier gets powers. That's Cap and, to a lesser extent, War Machine. And Quill already has the space POV dude angle covered. Strange touches the magic stuff which has been at best skirted around in Thor, BP is a king hero, Widow would be the spy/foreign angle. Inhumans, if they go with it, is stupid non-muties never talking and walking around with hooves for feet and forcing their kids into torture in the name of tradition. At the very least it's different.
There should have been 10 USAgent movies at this point but they can't do that because the world has barely begun to digest Captain America. And I'm fine with that. Sort of.
To be honest, I don't see Marvel movies having a women or minority problem.
They do. The contrast between the tv division and the movie division on this subject is striking. We know they can do it, they choose not to.
And I think looking at it from a white dude standpoint is a bit off. It's not what they are it's their origins, which is something Carol has a problem with compared to Strange, BP, even Black Widow. Soldier gets powers. That's Cap and, to a lesser extent, War Machine. And Quill already has the space POV dude angle covered. Strange touches the magic stuff which has been at best skirted around in Thor, BP is a king hero, Widow would be the spy/foreign angle. Inhumans, if they go with it, is stupid non-muties never talking and walking around with hooves for feet and forcing their kids into torture in the name of tradition. At the very least it's different.
Carol's origin isn't complicated to put in a movie at all, she's not Donna Troy. Black Widow hasn't got a movie yet either, she really should have by now. Even if it is in the pipeline it's going to take longer since Johansson is pregnant.
Inhumans, if they go with it, is stupid non-muties never talking and walking around with hooves for feet and forcing their kids into torture in the name of tradition. At the very least it's different.
That's not a good reason to put Carol in it. Inhumans is an opportunity to introduce new strong female lead characters.
There should have been 10 USAgent movies at this point but they can't do that because the world has barely begun to digest Captain America. And I'm fine with that. Sort of.
Carol doesn't need that much to establish her origin, especially after Guardians set up the Kree. They could put USA Agent in Cap 3 if they wanted to.
Yeah, not to say that female characters are interchangeable, but Inhumans would already ostensibly be needing time to focus on Medusa and Crystal, so adding in Carol doesn't make a lot of sense.
Also, Carol has a damn easy origin; she an airforce colonol who gets powers when she's caught in a blast of alien technology. If you want to go deeper, the technology blew up during a squabble between alien infiltrators. (Though it doesn't have to.)
Boom, that's it.
And while Quill is the man in space, Carol could easily fill the role of being Earth's premier defender against extra-terrestrial threats. She fights off aliens in her origin and winds up being the go-to person to investigate and beat-up future alien incursions.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I hate doing this kind of checklist, but here's quick rundown of the major Marvel movie characters so far, up to Avengers 2:
Cap
Iron Man
War Machine
Thor
Fury
Hulk
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Falcon
Maria Hill
Coulson
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Vision
Pepper
Peggy Carter
Jane Foster
Loki
Winter Soldier
Star-Lord (?)
Rocket
Groot
Drax
Gamora
24 major characters. 10 are women/minorities. 1 is an animal, 1 is a tree, 1 is a geth and 2 are green monsters and let's not pretend we care about Banner. And that doesn't include the supporting cast where it's almost along those same lines. And you have Ant-Man and Wasp showing up that we know of.
Given the source material was for so long white dudes, and that they can't use the X-Men or FF, that's pretty strong and shows something that isn't malicious or falling on deaf ears, especially when you factor in that none of those characters have been badly portrayed. Badly acted, possibly, but not something that sets women or minorities in film back ten years.
It's not that Carol's origin isn't confusing, it's that it's redundant when compared to already established heroes and contrasted to others in the wings like Strange or BP.
And I have no idea where you got I want Carol to be in Inhumans, I was pointing out the difference in Inhumans compared to other Marvel properties being teased. Seriously, they're monsters, attack all of them except Lockjaw.
I hate doing this kind of checklist, but here's quick rundown of the major Marvel movie characters so far, up to Avengers 2:
Cap
Iron Man
War Machine
Thor
Fury
Hulk
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Falcon
Maria Hill
Coulson
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Vision
Pepper
Peggy Carter
Jane Foster
Loki
Winter Soldier
Star-Lord (?)
Rocket
Groot
Drax
Gamora
24 major characters. 10 are women/minorities. 1 is an animal, 1 is a tree, 1 is a geth and 2 are green monsters and let's not pretend we care about Banner. And that doesn't include the supporting cast where it's almost along those same lines. And you have Ant-Man and Wasp showing up that we know of.
Those characters aren't equal footing with each other. Black Widow hasn't got a movie yet. Maria Hill was this close to be a cameo in Avengers, I discussed my complaints about Gamora. 19 of those are white people, including the robot and raccoon. As of Age of Ultron 9 Avengers are white and two are woman, if War Machine joins the number of minority members jumps to...1. No minorities have had lead roles in solo or team movies, Star-Lord was the lead in Guardians, not Gamora.
Given the source material was for so long white dudes, and that they can't use the X-Men or FF, that's pretty strong and shows something that isn't malicious or falling on deaf ears, especially when you factor in that none of those characters have been badly portrayed. Badly acted, possibly, but not something that sets women or minorities in film back ten years.
Marvel has plenty of female and minority characters in their library that isn't in FF or X-men. They can alter characters into minorities or cast minorities for roles like Maria Hill, she was a latina in Iron Man: Armored Adventures. My complaints wasn't specifically about how they were portrayed, though they aren't perfect (Gamora) and Black Widow wasn't given good material in Iron Man 2. Maya Hansen and Brandt were worse in Iron Man 3 and Rhodey hasn't had the best of luck in the movies. What's more - none are given solo movies as the leads. None. I'm not saying Marvel are racist or sexist but they are acting problematic when it does come to those characters in movies, they have done fine works but enough time has passed to stop screwing around with white male super-hero leads.
It's not that Carol's origin isn't confusing, it's that it's redundant when compared to already established heroes and contrasted to others in the wings like Strange or BP.
It's super-heroes, redundancy counts for shit. All movie-goers want is a good movie to watch and Carol can do that. USM went over what her role in the MCU could be.
And I have no idea where you got I want Carol to be in Inhumans, I was pointing out the difference in Inhumans compared to other Marvel properties being teased. Seriously, they're monsters, attack all of them except Lockjaw.
Someone bought up the idea to put Carol on Inhumans, my mistake. They're not monsters anymore than the X-men are. Marvel needs a minority or female lead solo movie before Inhumans, though if it does get made they should do their best to put characters like that in the spotlight, like Winter Soldier did.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Marvel Studios presents "Avengers: Age of Ultron," the epic follow-up to the biggest Super Hero movie of all time. When Tony Stark tries to jumpstart a dormant peacekeeping program, things go awry and Earth's Mightiest Heroes, including Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, The Incredible Hulk, Black Widow and Hawkeye, are put to the ultimate test as the fate of the planet hangs in the balance. As the villainous Ultron emerges, it is up to The Avengers to stop him from enacting his terrible plans, and soon uneasy alliances and unexpected action pave the way for an epic and unique global adventure.
Marvel's "Avengers: Age of Ultron" stars Robert Downey Jr., who returns as Iron Man, along with Chris Evans as Captain America, Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Mark Ruffalo as The Hulk. Together with Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow and Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye, and with the additional support of Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and Cobie Smulders as Agent Maria Hill, the team must reassemble to defeat James Spader as Ultron, a terrifying technological villain hell bent on human extinction. Along the way, they confront two mysterious and powerful newcomers, Wanda Maximoff, played by Elizabeth Olsen, and Pietro Maximoff, played by Aaron Taylor-Johnson, and meet an old friend in a new form when Paul Bettany becomes Vision.
See, that's the problem. You present us with 24 characters, less than half of them are woman or minorities, and say that's a pretty decent job, when women alone make up half of the population of the world. And NONE of those female or minority characters are leads. They're all parts of ensembles or supporting characters. Saying "The source material was mostly white dudes" is ignoring that some aren't white dudes: They have plenty of women and minority characters that they could put into lead roles; there's not a shortage or anything. Saying the source material is mostly white dudes isn't an excuse. Hell, there's no real reason they need to cast a white dude for Dr. Strange, for example. You don't need to be white to be a rich dick (though it helps )
Also, Marvel doesn't need to be malicious, or be deaf to people's requests, to continue to not deal with this issue. Marvel has a plan, and I'm sure it makes 100% sense why they just can't get to a female or minority lead film right now, even though gosh darn it they really want to! That doesn't change the fact that they're still not doing it. They've done 9 films so far, and every one has had a white male lead. That's mainly because it's a bunch of sequels built upon the framework of a handful if iconic characters, but that doesn't excuse the fact that in nine films already (and at least 3 more after) we're not getting a female or minority lead film. That's still there, it doesn't go away because it just doesn't fit into Marvel's cards at the moment.
See, that's the problem. You present us with 24 characters, less than half of them are woman or minorities, and say that's a pretty decent job, when women alone make up half of the population of the world. And NONE of those female or minority characters are leads. They're all parts of ensembles or supporting characters. Saying "The source material was mostly white dudes" is ignoring that some aren't white dudes: They have plenty of women and minority characters that they could put into lead roles; there's not a shortage or anything. Saying the source material is mostly white dudes isn't an excuse. Hell, there's no real reason they need to cast a white dude for Dr. Strange, for example. You don't need to be white to be a rich dick (though it helps )
Also, Marvel doesn't need to be malicious, or be deaf to people's requests, to continue to not deal with this issue. Marvel has a plan, and I'm sure it makes 100% sense why they just can't get to a female or minority lead film right now, even though gosh darn it they really want to! That doesn't change the fact that they're still not doing it. They've done 9 films so far, and every one has had a white male lead. That's mainly because it's a bunch of sequels built upon the framework of a handful if iconic characters, but that doesn't excuse the fact that in nine films already (and at least 3 more after) we're not getting a female or minority lead film. That's still there, it doesn't go away because it just doesn't fit into Marvel's cards at the moment.
Fair enough. Which female hero would you have made a movie about so far, and which of the existing movies would you scrap in it's place? Are you thinking we burn Thor and put Captain Marvel in his place? Ditch Cap for Black Widow?
Or are you thinking we more just remake one of those characters as a female or minority? Captain America as a black chick, maybe? The Hulk as an Inuit?
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
See, that's the problem. You present us with 24 characters, less than half of them are woman or minorities, and say that's a pretty decent job, when women alone make up half of the population of the world. And NONE of those female or minority characters are leads. They're all parts of ensembles or supporting characters. Saying "The source material was mostly white dudes" is ignoring that some aren't white dudes: They have plenty of women and minority characters that they could put into lead roles; there's not a shortage or anything. Saying the source material is mostly white dudes isn't an excuse. Hell, there's no real reason they need to cast a white dude for Dr. Strange, for example. You don't need to be white to be a rich dick (though it helps )
Also, Marvel doesn't need to be malicious, or be deaf to people's requests, to continue to not deal with this issue. Marvel has a plan, and I'm sure it makes 100% sense why they just can't get to a female or minority lead film right now, even though gosh darn it they really want to! That doesn't change the fact that they're still not doing it. They've done 9 films so far, and every one has had a white male lead. That's mainly because it's a bunch of sequels built upon the framework of a handful if iconic characters, but that doesn't excuse the fact that in nine films already (and at least 3 more after) we're not getting a female or minority lead film. That's still there, it doesn't go away because it just doesn't fit into Marvel's cards at the moment.
Fair enough. Which female hero would you have made a movie about so far, and which of the existing movies would you scrap in it's place? Are you thinking we burn Thor and put Captain Marvel in his place? Ditch Cap for Black Widow?
Extend Phase 2. With Iron Man 3 finished they can replace it that franchise with War Machine. They don't need to ditch any movies from their slate, it was shorter than Phase 1 and Black Widow should have had a movie in Phase 2, she's earned it. Have the last movie before Avengers 2 be about Captain Marvel, released after Guardians.
Or are you thinking we more just remake one of those characters as a female or minority? Captain America as a black chick, maybe? The Hulk as an Inuit?
That's the beauty about legacies - Marvel hasn't had them in the movies yet. They've already set up two people, like Falcon, to take over Captain America in Winter Soldier, and it'd be nice to have a female Captain America, who are typically designated into alternate time lines like Next Avengers.
Marvel has no reason to make a movie about <different character> until what they're doing stops making money. They're plan is to make money, what they've been doing is making money. So it makes sense for them to not change the characters they have and keep making movies as they have. As an example: Black Widow doesn't deserve a movie any more than Hawkeye does, in that they both aren't as interesting as the rest of the crew, so no movies for them. But then again, they're making Ant-Man, so maybe someone will try and cash in on Black Widow after the baby.
Marvel has no reason to make a movie about <different character> until what they're doing stops making money. They're plan is to make money, what they've been doing is making money. So it makes sense for them to not change the characters they have and keep making movies as they have. As an example: Black Widow doesn't deserve a movie any more than Hawkeye does, in that they both aren't as interesting as the rest of the crew, so no movies for them. But then again, they're making Ant-Man, so maybe someone will try and cash in on Black Widow after the baby.
This assumes that:
1) Marvel movies are already at peek market saturation, in that they already draw in all markets.
2) A minority or female character is a gimmick.
Neither is true. There are huge portions of the market that "white male action hero" doesn't touch. 50% of the world's population is women, and much more than that is nonwhites. The largest growing market for movies is Asia. There's so much more they could be doing.
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My guess is it'll be one of the untitled six films slated for 2017-2019.
I disagree, and specified why earlier. I will not continue this line as a mod has asked for us to stop discussing real world events.
As such I am not able to go indepth as to my disagreement, and said as much above. I would appreciate it if you did not continue to try to bring me into a line of discussion I have already stated that I cannot continue due to mod fiat.
Quite possible, though I'd say it's probably towards the end of that spectrum
2016
Cap 3 - Confirmed
Dr. Strange - Highly Likely, all but confirmed at this point
2017
Thor 3 - Confirmed in development, date is my guess
GotG 2 - Confirmed
??? - Currently Inhumans is looking likely, could be anything at this point, though
2018
Avengers 3 - Confirmed in development, Fiege said no later than 2018 probably
???
???
2019
???
Fiege also said they wanted at least one new IP per year. Extrapolating out from their current plans, I would wager the future looks something like this (pulling things out of my butt, kinda)
If they keep with 3 films a year, and an Avengers flick every 3 years, Phase 4 would be 9 films (2 in '18, 3 in '19 and '20 each, and then Avengers 4 in 2021). If they do not do any "part 4's" aside from the Avengers, but do sequels to any film that hasn't gotten a part 3 yet, we'd be looking at
1. GotG 3
2. Dr. Strange 2
3. Ant-Man 2
4. "Inhumans" 2 (if they do an Inhumans 1)
In addition, at least 3 films are desired to be new ip's, so that's 5-7. That leaves a slot for at least one more film, so let's new IP that one too for now for a total of four. (Though I guess they could do Hulk 2). I think the three most likely candidates are Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and perhaps Black Widow. Those are the three we've heard the most chatter about. We'll have to wait a few years before we start hearing about other possibilities.
So yeah, I'm guessing not in 2017, but I'm optimistic about 2018-2020 since there's a good chance there is room. At least until we start hearing them talk about wanting to go back to Ghost Rider or Punisher, or wanting to do films about Moon Knight or Nova.
*sob*
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I would hope not. Taking a solo female hero and making her a part of an ensemble is kind of missing the whole point of why people are clamoring for her to get a movie.
She's actually the perfect character to get introduced in another movie before becoming a superhero. She's an Air Force pilot and officer, so you could insert her as the normal viewpoint character in any number of robot holocaust/alien invasion/mass Inhuman sprouting scenarios.
If they listened to fan demands, the would have already made a Captain Marvel film, along with a Black Panther film.
For whatever reason, they haven't even announced anything yet and they may not make the movie for another 4 or 5 years. So they could be hesitant about the character and putting her in another movie would allow them to gauge public reactions and temporarily appease the fans.
But maybe they'll fast track it if WB or Fox announces a female superhero movie first. Next year would be the perfect opportunity for Fox to announce a Mystique film so they can capitalize on the Hunger Games publicity.
The rumor I heard is that Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel was in the script for Age of Ultron, but at the last minute they decided to cut her because Marvel started to feel that she deserved to be introduced in her own movie rather than showing up for a single scene in AoU.
Fan demand is why they're even talking Captain Marvel right now. Fiege has said that he gets more questions about her and Black Panther than for movies like Avengers 3 or Iron Man 4.
Sony has a "female led Spider-Man spinoff" scheduled for 2017, but they'll probably fuck it up, so I could see not counting them
The fan clamoring, to me at least, seems to be motivated as less of a demand for Carol and more for just a female superhero movie. Which, if Marvel wanted to, would make a Black Widow movie first because she has a lot greater chance to succeed and build off of compared to a new MCU character.
I keep thinking she'll be the new character in Avengers 3, the "wildcard" to fight Thanos, so to speak.
If it isn't "Gwen Stacey alternate timeline spiderman" I will be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.
Also considering Marvel's current run they're probably not concerned about being the first studio to put out a major super hero movie with a female lead so much as being the first studio to do it right.
I'm pretty sure it was Wasp who was supposed to be in Avengers 1. There's storyboards and quotes from Whedon.
How quickly we forget.
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This is what I wish fans (especially those 1000 twitter people who are probably bombarding Feige on twitter everyday about it) would get; Marvel's been pretty solid with the plan they have right now, and while they haven't had that many female heroes yet it's not like they've yet to create a bad female character. So just kind of chill out because this simmering, almost apparent outrage at the lack of a female movie is misplaced, ya feel me fam?
Gordon Bombay was great at leading Team USA in the Goodwill Games, but let outside forces influence him and change his style and attitude, and because of that they nearly got eliminated after being destroyed by Iceland because they were so shook up! Focus more on getting Greg Land fired from their books or something.
FUCK
I just imagined alternate universe Emma Stone Spider-Woman.
WHY U DO DIS?!
But is it really that hard to do a female superhero movie "right?" Is there some magical ingredient that requires 5 extra years of development?
It's not like they're taking all this time to develop a Captain Marvel movie for years. Presumably, they'll spend just as much time on Captain Marvel as they do on their other movies.
Put her in a supporting role or cameo in Captain America 3 or Thor 3 then as a normal person and save her origin for her solo movie. They don't need to put her with the Inhumans.
Agreed.
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We've been chilling for 6 years and we have nothing to show it. It's not wrong to be frustrated how Marvel hasn't had a single movie with a female or minority lead, thy have millions of characters to choose from but they end up all having two things in common: white and male. Their track record with minorities and female characters isn't appalling, if flawed, which is why this is odd behavior that otherwise has an ok history except in solo movies and their team movies have been lacking as of late.
They're going to add another woman in Avengers 2 but they aren't getting a minority any time soon.
Guardians had two minorities, which is an improvement. Unfortunately Gamora got the least interesting characterization and arc in the movie, which was disappointing.
Dr. Strange will probably get a movie before Carol does. I love Stephen Strange but Marvel has had plenty of solo movies with white super-heroes, it's time for them to stop dancing around their minority and female problems, because this is going to get worse the longer it takes to get them on screen.
And I think looking at it from a white dude standpoint is a bit off. It's not what they are it's their origins, which is something Carol has a problem with compared to Strange, BP, even Black Widow. Soldier gets powers. That's Cap and, to a lesser extent, War Machine. And Quill already has the space POV dude angle covered. Strange touches the magic stuff which has been at best skirted around in Thor, BP is a king hero, Widow would be the spy/foreign angle. Inhumans, if they go with it, is stupid non-muties never talking and walking around with hooves for feet and forcing their kids into torture in the name of tradition. At the very least it's different.
There should have been 10 USAgent movies at this point but they can't do that because the world has barely begun to digest Captain America. And I'm fine with that. Sort of.
They do. The contrast between the tv division and the movie division on this subject is striking. We know they can do it, they choose not to.
Carol's origin isn't complicated to put in a movie at all, she's not Donna Troy. Black Widow hasn't got a movie yet either, she really should have by now. Even if it is in the pipeline it's going to take longer since Johansson is pregnant.
That's not a good reason to put Carol in it. Inhumans is an opportunity to introduce new strong female lead characters.
Carol doesn't need that much to establish her origin, especially after Guardians set up the Kree. They could put USA Agent in Cap 3 if they wanted to.
Also, Carol has a damn easy origin; she an airforce colonol who gets powers when she's caught in a blast of alien technology. If you want to go deeper, the technology blew up during a squabble between alien infiltrators. (Though it doesn't have to.)
Boom, that's it.
And while Quill is the man in space, Carol could easily fill the role of being Earth's premier defender against extra-terrestrial threats. She fights off aliens in her origin and winds up being the go-to person to investigate and beat-up future alien incursions.
Cap
Iron Man
War Machine
Thor
Fury
Hulk
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Falcon
Maria Hill
Coulson
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Vision
Pepper
Peggy Carter
Jane Foster
Loki
Winter Soldier
Star-Lord (?)
Rocket
Groot
Drax
Gamora
24 major characters. 10 are women/minorities. 1 is an animal, 1 is a tree, 1 is a geth and 2 are green monsters and let's not pretend we care about Banner. And that doesn't include the supporting cast where it's almost along those same lines. And you have Ant-Man and Wasp showing up that we know of.
Given the source material was for so long white dudes, and that they can't use the X-Men or FF, that's pretty strong and shows something that isn't malicious or falling on deaf ears, especially when you factor in that none of those characters have been badly portrayed. Badly acted, possibly, but not something that sets women or minorities in film back ten years.
It's not that Carol's origin isn't confusing, it's that it's redundant when compared to already established heroes and contrasted to others in the wings like Strange or BP.
And I have no idea where you got I want Carol to be in Inhumans, I was pointing out the difference in Inhumans compared to other Marvel properties being teased. Seriously, they're monsters, attack all of them except Lockjaw.
Those characters aren't equal footing with each other. Black Widow hasn't got a movie yet. Maria Hill was this close to be a cameo in Avengers, I discussed my complaints about Gamora. 19 of those are white people, including the robot and raccoon. As of Age of Ultron 9 Avengers are white and two are woman, if War Machine joins the number of minority members jumps to...1. No minorities have had lead roles in solo or team movies, Star-Lord was the lead in Guardians, not Gamora.
Marvel has plenty of female and minority characters in their library that isn't in FF or X-men. They can alter characters into minorities or cast minorities for roles like Maria Hill, she was a latina in Iron Man: Armored Adventures. My complaints wasn't specifically about how they were portrayed, though they aren't perfect (Gamora) and Black Widow wasn't given good material in Iron Man 2. Maya Hansen and Brandt were worse in Iron Man 3 and Rhodey hasn't had the best of luck in the movies. What's more - none are given solo movies as the leads. None. I'm not saying Marvel are racist or sexist but they are acting problematic when it does come to those characters in movies, they have done fine works but enough time has passed to stop screwing around with white male super-hero leads.
It's super-heroes, redundancy counts for shit. All movie-goers want is a good movie to watch and Carol can do that. USM went over what her role in the MCU could be.
Someone bought up the idea to put Carol on Inhumans, my mistake. They're not monsters anymore than the X-men are. Marvel needs a minority or female lead solo movie before Inhumans, though if it does get made they should do their best to put characters like that in the spotlight, like Winter Soldier did.
Also, Marvel doesn't need to be malicious, or be deaf to people's requests, to continue to not deal with this issue. Marvel has a plan, and I'm sure it makes 100% sense why they just can't get to a female or minority lead film right now, even though gosh darn it they really want to! That doesn't change the fact that they're still not doing it. They've done 9 films so far, and every one has had a white male lead. That's mainly because it's a bunch of sequels built upon the framework of a handful if iconic characters, but that doesn't excuse the fact that in nine films already (and at least 3 more after) we're not getting a female or minority lead film. That's still there, it doesn't go away because it just doesn't fit into Marvel's cards at the moment.
And how could we forget
Fair enough. Which female hero would you have made a movie about so far, and which of the existing movies would you scrap in it's place? Are you thinking we burn Thor and put Captain Marvel in his place? Ditch Cap for Black Widow?
Or are you thinking we more just remake one of those characters as a female or minority? Captain America as a black chick, maybe? The Hulk as an Inuit?
Extend Phase 2. With Iron Man 3 finished they can replace it that franchise with War Machine. They don't need to ditch any movies from their slate, it was shorter than Phase 1 and Black Widow should have had a movie in Phase 2, she's earned it. Have the last movie before Avengers 2 be about Captain Marvel, released after Guardians.
That's the beauty about legacies - Marvel hasn't had them in the movies yet. They've already set up two people, like Falcon, to take over Captain America in Winter Soldier, and it'd be nice to have a female Captain America, who are typically designated into alternate time lines like Next Avengers.
This assumes that:
1) Marvel movies are already at peek market saturation, in that they already draw in all markets.
2) A minority or female character is a gimmick.
Neither is true. There are huge portions of the market that "white male action hero" doesn't touch. 50% of the world's population is women, and much more than that is nonwhites. The largest growing market for movies is Asia. There's so much more they could be doing.
Pick up Alexander Siddig or Aasif Mandvi or something.