EDIT: proxies are not an important part of anything, they're a tool used to circumvent security, for no real reason. If you really needed to look at something that was blocked, you could simply ask, and if it was reasonable, be allowed to see it.
That's not necessarily true. Blocking in public schools is federally mandated, whether the school wants to or not, and even if a teacher thinks you should be able to get to a site, it may not be feasible for you to be able to remove the restriction. One of my teacher's has on occasion used proxies just to get to sites they need to in order to prepare their lesson plans!
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
How is it legitimate but not educational if it's at school? Unless your teachers are now emailing you school work, but if they were doing that then it would educational.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
EDIT: proxies are not an important part of anything, they're a tool used to circumvent security, for no real reason. If you really needed to look at something that was blocked, you could simply ask, and if it was reasonable, be allowed to see it.
That's not necessarily true. Blocking in public schools is federally mandated, whether the school wants to or not, and even if a teacher thinks you should be able to get to a site, it may not be feasible for you to be able to remove the restriction. One of my teacher's has on occasion used proxies just to get to sites they need to in order to prepare their lesson plans!
agreed, but it's still true in most cases. I work for state government and we've got a locked down system, but we can still make a phone call and get access temporarily to pretty much whatever we need as long as it's a reasonable request.
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
How is it legitimate but not educational if it's at school? Unless your teachers are now emailing you school work, but if they were doing that then it would educational.
I said not strictly educational, I did not say devoid of value. I feel that if something helps you learn, it's certainly legitimate. If it helps enrich your life by keeping you connected to friends, communicating with other people, learning about subjects you care about, or anything of that nature, it has value, but is not necessarily strictly educational because it does not conform to any particular curriculum the school is shoving down your throat.
Bah... they need to know how to use both. That should be expected of them. That is what will be expected of them in any post secondary situation. It's what they should be able to do in the real world too.
Both sets of skill are important, but I have not touched a paper reference in ages. Most of the paper stuff is online too, and that much easier to sort through and copy. Google books... and if your school has money, massive amounts of periodicals, scholarly journals and other electronic libraries.
I like books for some things. If I am going to read a lot, I want a book. Which I'd almost certainly find online. I haven't had a paper card catalog in a school I've attended since 6th grade. Now most of the stuff is standardized and can be access remotely. You can frequently have them order inter-library lending (or whatever it's called) online too.
Knowing computers and how to do stuff with them is really important. It shouldn't be treated as a way to let kids be lazy, though.
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
If you don't have a garage, what's the point of owning a car? If you don't own property, what's the point on being able to vote on local issues? Plenty of people get value from email without being able to check it from home.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
Thank you. I can't even remember how many pissed off freshman I saw walking out of english 101 because their paper was some cut and paste of a wikipedia article, and the sources section of their paper was a cut and paste of wikipedia sources.
I'm still not convinced - first of all, there are long periods of time (the vacations and weekends) when you're not going to be able to check your email at all - to continue along the path of analogies, it'd be like me having a boat but only being able to sail it when I'm at the coast, where I only go to sell ice cream. Or something.
Rhesus Positive on
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
If you don't have a garage, what's the point of owning a car? If you don't own property, what's the point on being able to vote on local issues? Plenty of people get value from email without being able to check it from home.
yeah, but fourteen year old to seventeen year old kids don't need to be able to talk to their bff jill on the free school computer while some kid who wants to study something important has to wait.
yeah, but fourteen year old to seventeen year old kids don't need to be able to talk to their bff jill on the free school computer while some kid who wants to study something important has to wait.
Now I hear you saying there need to be more computers.
I'm still not convinced - first of all, there are long periods of time (the vacations and weekends) when you're not going to be able to check your email at all - to continue along the path of analogies, it'd be like me having a boat but only being able to sail it when I'm at the coast, where I only go to sell ice cream. Or something.
email was one of *the first* uses of the internet. At the time, nobody could expect to use the internet every day, or from everywhere and it still had value then. Now that everyone expects you to have email, I think its silly to not see having an email address as valuable, even if you can't check it at home. How many people now use email in their work, and would still see value in that, even if they couldn't use it at home?
uhh... there is a diffrence between plagiarisms and using shitty sources.
honestly, through most schools you can access a lot of stuff online, so there are quality resources available. Wikipedia, blogs, and random web pages are not them. You can use those to find decent resources though.
man, you can check e-mail from anywhere. Local libraries, friends houses, starbucks if your parents can scrap together the $200 for a decent used laptop. Slightly more for a referb, and then you'd not have to worry about the battery being shit. If your parent can't afford it, you can probably use their cellphone.
If you can't check your e-mail, it is probably only because you are ignorant. Which, is a social and not a personal failing, in many cases.
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
If you don't have a garage, what's the point of owning a car? If you don't own property, what's the point on being able to vote on local issues? Plenty of people get value from email without being able to check it from home.
yeah, but fourteen year old to seventeen year old kids don't need to be able to talk to their bff jill on the free school computer while some kid who wants to study something important has to wait.
website blocks don't accomplish that goal, really. Different labs at my school have different policies. The library is the most strict and doesn't even allow you to use email. They have no reason for this policy though, because they have a ton of computers that are always empty. I think the librarians just don't want to deal with extra kids hanging around, which is just rediculous, since they're paid to be there and maintain the library for people to *use*, not to sit empty.
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
Thank you. I can't even remember how many pissed off freshman I saw walking out of english 101 because their paper was some cut and paste of a wikipedia article, and the sources section of their paper was a cut and paste of wikipedia sources.
And clearly this is the Internet's fault; I mean it's not like people (photo)copied and turned in entire pages out of good ol' Brittanica before Internet access was widespread.
Something I think a lot of you are missing is that primary and secondary school in America is not entirely 100% academic activity all of the time. It's a glorified free daycare system. And saying "everything you do in this building, especially on those computers, needs to have an academic purpose" is stupid. The kids are there for six or seven hours a day and there's going to be lots of times when they have free time. Blindly censoring what has become the main channel of information for people, in a school, just doesn't seem like the best of ideas. But maybe that's just me.
edit: but then this is the least of the problems that American high schools have, really, so whatever. Just get the hell out as soon as you can, kids, and never look back. Worked for me.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2007
Our school has a simple system, nothing is blocked. Hell, porns not even blocked, but we're told what we can do and what we can't do on 'tinternets. If we're slacking off, we get a shitload of punishment work to do.
Its much easier to just have the teachers do their fucking job and supervise students then block everything that has a dirty word on it.
-edit-
Well, it's not easier but it makes a lot more sense.... >_<
First off, start your posts with a capital letter. Secondly someone already did it, but jesus ridiculous is the word, note NO FUCKING E! Thirdly, what the hell is your argument? You are upset your school labs block certain websites they feel inapropriate? Shouldn't you take that up with your school instead of ineffectively trying to debate with people who can at least spell ridiculous?
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
First off, start your posts with a capital letter. Secondly someone already did it, but jesus ridiculous is the word, note NO FUCKING E! Thirdly, what the hell is your argument? You are upset your school labs block certain websites they feel inapropriate? Shouldn't you take that up with your school instead of ineffectively trying to debate with people who can at least spell ridiculous?
because spelling that word is more important than the free flow of information. you are so right.
I'm still not convinced - first of all, there are long periods of time (the vacations and weekends) when you're not going to be able to check your email at all - to continue along the path of analogies, it'd be like me having a boat but only being able to sail it when I'm at the coast, where I only go to sell ice cream. Or something.
email was one of *the first* uses of the internet. At the time, nobody could expect to use the internet every day, or from everywhere and it still had value then. Now that everyone expects you to have email, I think its silly to not see having an email address as valuable, even if you can't check it at home. How many people now use email in their work, and would still see value in that, even if they couldn't use it at home?
You're talking about what, fifteen year olds? I'm not sure how the ages work in American schools. Either way, I still cannot fathom what a teen needs email for if he can only check it at school. Don't kids carry phones around these days?
First off, start your posts with a capital letter. Secondly someone already did it, but jesus ridiculous is the word, note NO FUCKING E! Thirdly, what the hell is your argument? You are upset your school labs block certain websites they feel inapropriate? Shouldn't you take that up with your school instead of ineffectively trying to debate with people who can at least spell ridiculous?
because spelling that word is more important than the free flow of information. you are so right.
Yes, yes it is. And free flowing information? At a school fucking lab? The real world is going to have fun with you.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
so you're saying that it's not fair that a kid, whose parent's either don't give him a computer at home or don't let him go to facebook/myspace,etc., can't look at said stuff in school?
I'm saying that it's hypocritical to solicit government funds to bridge the digital divide and then tell students they can go and use the internet at home to check their email or any of a hundred other legitimate but not strictly educational uses.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
Thank you. I can't even remember how many pissed off freshman I saw walking out of english 101 because their paper was some cut and paste of a wikipedia article, and the sources section of their paper was a cut and paste of wikipedia sources.
I think that's due to a lack of at source-finding and how-to-write/source-paper education in high school. Yes, teaching courses is great and essential, but teaching actual literary/writing methods and conventions especially considering alot of fields are going to require you to do some research for your journal articles/papers anyway, has to be stressed somewhat in upper year high school beyond just a sidenote and handout in English class.\
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
Not, apparently, the ones I need to read. Is this more prevalent in scientific circles than historical?
Either way, even if highschoolers need to use journals, they'll find it a lot easier to do without other people hogging the workstations checking their latest slew of chain emails and Facebook notifications.
Rhesus Positive on
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
Not, apparently, the ones I need to read. Is this more prevalent in scientific circles than historical?
Either way, even if highschoolers need to use journals, they'll find it a lot easier to do without other people hogging the workstations checking their latest slew of chain emails and Facebook notifications.
Well, I have a massive research paper in my PoliSci class that I've managed to find around 4-5 full journal articles in online format. But yes, alot of scientific articles can be viewed online, provided you do so through University access. If you'd like, you can shoot me a PM with the topic and I could always see if I can dig up anything for you.
So this thread is now about the "right to internet access," right?
Why do you need to check PA at school, anyhow? You do know what the point of school is, right? They're like your parents. They need to get you to do what they see is right, regardless of what you think, in the hopes that when you grow up and become an adult, you'll be functioning and worth a shit.
Now, the way in which many schools are doing this, and the methods of teaching (I could write books on the failures of the "teach by authoritative force method") are flawed and certainly in need of revision. But one of those revisions is not allowing you to dick around on the PA forums in school.
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
Not, apparently, the ones I need to read. Is this more prevalent in scientific circles than historical?
I believe so. When I studied Engineering, some resources were only available online, although to be fair that often had more to do the nature of the resources, or the volume of information they provided.
In contrast, my gf studies Classics, and a lot of the stuff she needs is on paper.
The school can do whatever it feels like in terms of restricting internet usage. It's not going to change much of anything... but whatever they feel best about.
I mean, when we couldn't check comics on my school computers in high school, we'd just dick around on Wikipedia. Or read the news, or talk to each other, or read a book from home (Okay, only I did that). If they really really really restrict it to bare-bones, it's their prerogative. However, I think it's not really stopping kids from wasting time, and is probably less useful than just establishing a coherent usage policy. I.E. "we catch you looking at porn, you use the typewriter."
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
Not, apparently, the ones I need to read. Is this more prevalent in scientific circles than historical?
Either way, even if highschoolers need to use journals, they'll find it a lot easier to do without other people hogging the workstations checking their latest slew of chain emails and Facebook notifications.
Well, I have a massive research paper in my PoliSci class that I've managed to find around 4-5 full journal articles in online format. But yes, alot of scientific articles can be viewed online, provided you do so through University access. If you'd like, you can shoot me a PM with the topic and I could always see if I can dig up anything for you.
I appreciate it, but I'm within walking distance of a copyright library, so I can always find the books and articles I need - thanks anyway
Now that I think of it, the only time I have resorted to online journals was when I studied the settlement of Iceland and needed to look up the studies on mitochondrial and Y-c'some DNA. Everything else has been in crisp, glossy journals or glorious, hefty, musty-smelling books that are sometimes even bound in leather
I love libraries.
Rhesus Positive on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
Either way, even if highschoolers need to use journals, they'll find it a lot easier to do without other people hogging the workstations checking their latest slew of chain emails and Facebook notifications.
Of course academic work always gets priority on school computers. Is that even a question? If you need to work on a paper, then kick someone off.
I went to a uber-intense grind school, and we still had reasonable amounts of free time throughout the day in which we were left to our own devices. Lunch, break, and various free periods. Given that they would let us do all sorts of non-educational things in that time (go eat in Berkeley, play sports, talk with friends, read for pleasure, watch movies from the library, and so on), I don't see any reason why they should block something like PA.
In fact, that was when I started on the forums, and I can't say I particularly regret it.
As a side note, isn't it illegal to use a database that you have personal access to for someone else? Not to like comdemn you or anything, I'm just wondering if you knew. I only say this because my mom recently became a high school librarian.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
As a side note, isn't it illegal to use a database that you have personal access to for someone else? Not to like comdemn you or anything, I'm just wondering if you knew. I only say this because my mom recently became a high school librarian.
Hmm...yea, on second thought I think one could make a case that it could technically be viewed as copyright infringement since its not for personal use and its distribution. Well, now I look like an idiot.
I appreciate it, but I'm within walking distance of a copyright library, so I can always find the books and articles I need - thanks anyway
Now that I think of it, the only time I have resorted to online journals was when I studied the settlement of Iceland and needed to look up the studies on mitochondrial and Y-c'some DNA. Everything else has been in crisp, glossy journals or glorious, hefty, musty-smelling books that are sometimes even bound in leather
I love libraries.
Seriously? I've done most of an honours without having to wrangle musty bound volumes and fork over the cost of a kidney in photocopying. Old papers get superseded quite fast, and more and more stuff is online, although its still sometimes difficult to access things older than the early 90's or so (depends on the database though, CSIRO's goes back to the fifties). I've only had to request a couple of hardcopies and scare up some info from actual books.
But yeah, a high school does have a right to block websites to keep the kids from slacking off too much. Colleges, not so much due the aforementioned 'here voluntarily', although that doesn't stop the uber-conservative colleges doing it anyway. But they hate freedom.
As a side note, isn't it illegal to use a database that you have personal access to for someone else? Not to like comdemn you or anything, I'm just wondering if you knew. I only say this because my mom recently became a high school librarian.
Its also technically illegal to play a song where others can hear it in case they don't own a copy of it. I care naught for that principle.
I just wanted to share my experience with this. I worked part-time for my college's library for about two years. It's a small, private Christian school with a really awesome campus and great professors, but that's not the point. The school decided to do some renovating and moved their small, outdated computer lab into the library in order to give more students access to computers. This was a good idea in theory. Hell, I was excited about it.
When the fall semester started up and students were given their first taste of the new computer lab, things went smoothly at first. Then I started to notice something funny was going on. The same students would go back there and sit for hours, day after day. Then I started receiving complaints that there were no computers available to study with. My boss was at lunch so I took it upon myself to go back there and check things out. Every student back there was on myspace or facebook. There was literally not one computer open for people to study with. Not having the power to do anything about it myself, I told my boss about it when she got back, and she told me she'd take care of it. So her idea was to put up little signs around the library reminding students that our computers were for academic purposes only. Guess how much good that did.
Things got progressively worse, but the IT boys at our school were sitting on their thumbs doing nothing about it. The students using myspace were sucking all the bandwidth out of what few computers did manage to get freed up for academic use. Then the computers used for testing new students began to lock up in the middle of tests, rendering all the work useless. This caught the dean's ear, and she bitched to the IT boys to do something about it. They checked their charts and sure enough, the computer lab was using so much of the school's bandwidth that the tests could not be processed. They blocked all social networking sites and proxy sites a day later, much to the student body's chagrin. Everything went smoother after that, but I did get my share of dirty looks thrown at me the next day.
tl;dr: I dont think schools should block social networking sites as long as the students are adult enough to use them responsibly.
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
Not, apparently, the ones I need to read. Is this more prevalent in scientific circles than historical?
Either way, even if highschoolers need to use journals, they'll find it a lot easier to do without other people hogging the workstations checking their latest slew of chain emails and Facebook notifications.
Just institute the same policy my school's library has...work has priority over play. If anybody needs to use a computer for work, and you're just fucking around on Myspace, you're booted.
EDIT: Won't stop everyone, mind you (alt-tab FTW), but it does go a long way.
I was ok when I found out our school was blocking stuff. What did I care? When would I be on it and be board? Up to the point where It became near standard that one of my classes would be wrangled into the computer lab at least once a month. Not for an assignment, but because my Drama class got kicked out of the stage. Or because there was a substitute, or because we had a small assignment that took no more than five minutes for me. then we were stuck in there. A computer lab. Nothing on it but the internet and word. Not enough space for anything but the computers. And anything I could possibly be interested in is block. Even guitar tabs. For which there is a CLASS. For an hour. An hour. Again and again. Grr:x
I was ok when I found out our school was blocking stuff. What did I care? When would I be on it and be board? Up to the point where It became near standard that one of my classes would be wrangled into the computer lab at least once a month. Not for an assignment, but because my Drama class got kicked out of the stage. Or because there was a substitute, or because we had a small assignment that took no more than five minutes for me. then we were stuck in there. A computer lab. Nothing on it but the internet and word. Not enough space for anything but the computers. And anything I could possibly be interested in is block. Even guitar tabs. For which there is a CLASS. For an hour. An hour. Again and again. Grr:x
I was ok when I found out our school was blocking stuff. What did I care? When would I be on it and be board? Up to the point where It became near standard that one of my classes would be wrangled into the computer lab at least once a month. Not for an assignment, but because my Drama class got kicked out of the stage. Or because there was a substitute, or because we had a small assignment that took no more than five minutes for me. then we were stuck in there. A computer lab. Nothing on it but the internet and word. Not enough space for anything but the computers. And anything I could possibly be interested in is block. Even guitar tabs. For which there is a CLASS. For an hour. An hour. Again and again. Grr:x
I had something similar, rarely used the computer but when I did a lot of fun things were blocked. However someone did find a site about Islam that wasn't blocked and had it's own game section with flash games that we amused ourselves with to pass the time. They were just normal flash games (hell some could be found on newgrounds) that were for some reason on a Islam site.
I just wanted to share my experience with this. I worked part-time for my college's library for about two years. It's a small, private Christian school with a really awesome campus and great professors, but that's not the point. The school decided to do some renovating and moved their small, outdated computer lab into the library in order to give more students access to computers. This was a good idea in theory. Hell, I was excited about it.
When the fall semester started up and students were given their first taste of the new computer lab, things went smoothly at first. Then I started to notice something funny was going on. The same students would go back there and sit for hours, day after day. Then I started receiving complaints that there were no computers available to study with. My boss was at lunch so I took it upon myself to go back there and check things out. Every student back there was on myspace or facebook. There was literally not one computer open for people to study with. Not having the power to do anything about it myself, I told my boss about it when she got back, and she told me she'd take care of it. So her idea was to put up little signs around the library reminding students that our computers were for academic purposes only. Guess how much good that did.
Things got progressively worse, but the IT boys at our school were sitting on their thumbs doing nothing about it. The students using myspace were sucking all the bandwidth out of what few computers did manage to get freed up for academic use. Then the computers used for testing new students began to lock up in the middle of tests, rendering all the work useless. This caught the dean's ear, and she bitched to the IT boys to do something about it. They checked their charts and sure enough, the computer lab was using so much of the school's bandwidth that the tests could not be processed. They blocked all social networking sites and proxy sites a day later, much to the student body's chagrin. Everything went smoother after that, but I did get my share of dirty looks thrown at me the next day.
tl;dr: I dont think schools should block social networking sites as long as the students are adult enough to use them responsibly.
You could do what the UW did and just put up signs that say if your not doing work you can be kicked off which solves the crowded problem. Also how the hell does myspace suck up bandwidth? I'd say the solution is to get a competent IT department and a good internet connection.
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That's not necessarily true. Blocking in public schools is federally mandated, whether the school wants to or not, and even if a teacher thinks you should be able to get to a site, it may not be feasible for you to be able to remove the restriction. One of my teacher's has on occasion used proxies just to get to sites they need to in order to prepare their lesson plans!
How is it legitimate but not educational if it's at school? Unless your teachers are now emailing you school work, but if they were doing that then it would educational.
pleasepaypreacher.net
agreed, but it's still true in most cases. I work for state government and we've got a locked down system, but we can still make a phone call and get access temporarily to pretty much whatever we need as long as it's a reasonable request.
I said not strictly educational, I did not say devoid of value. I feel that if something helps you learn, it's certainly legitimate. If it helps enrich your life by keeping you connected to friends, communicating with other people, learning about subjects you care about, or anything of that nature, it has value, but is not necessarily strictly educational because it does not conform to any particular curriculum the school is shoving down your throat.
Both sets of skill are important, but I have not touched a paper reference in ages. Most of the paper stuff is online too, and that much easier to sort through and copy. Google books... and if your school has money, massive amounts of periodicals, scholarly journals and other electronic libraries.
I like books for some things. If I am going to read a lot, I want a book. Which I'd almost certainly find online. I haven't had a paper card catalog in a school I've attended since 6th grade. Now most of the stuff is standardized and can be access remotely. You can frequently have them order inter-library lending (or whatever it's called) online too.
Knowing computers and how to do stuff with them is really important. It shouldn't be treated as a way to let kids be lazy, though.
But if the kids don't have the Internet at home, what's the point of them having an email address?
It might be because I grew up in a time before ubiquitous computers and Net access (five years ago), but I don't see dicking about on the Web as a right, but a privilege and luxury.
Concerning libraries: it needs to be beaten into kids while young that just because the Internet can potentially tell you anything, books are still de rigeur in universities. It took me a good few papers in my first year to get over having to read more than one article or book to get all the information I needed.
If you don't have a garage, what's the point of owning a car? If you don't own property, what's the point on being able to vote on local issues? Plenty of people get value from email without being able to check it from home.
Thank you. I can't even remember how many pissed off freshman I saw walking out of english 101 because their paper was some cut and paste of a wikipedia article, and the sources section of their paper was a cut and paste of wikipedia sources.
yeah, but fourteen year old to seventeen year old kids don't need to be able to talk to their bff jill on the free school computer while some kid who wants to study something important has to wait.
Now I hear you saying there need to be more computers.
email was one of *the first* uses of the internet. At the time, nobody could expect to use the internet every day, or from everywhere and it still had value then. Now that everyone expects you to have email, I think its silly to not see having an email address as valuable, even if you can't check it at home. How many people now use email in their work, and would still see value in that, even if they couldn't use it at home?
honestly, through most schools you can access a lot of stuff online, so there are quality resources available. Wikipedia, blogs, and random web pages are not them. You can use those to find decent resources though.
man, you can check e-mail from anywhere. Local libraries, friends houses, starbucks if your parents can scrap together the $200 for a decent used laptop. Slightly more for a referb, and then you'd not have to worry about the battery being shit. If your parent can't afford it, you can probably use their cellphone.
If you can't check your e-mail, it is probably only because you are ignorant. Which, is a social and not a personal failing, in many cases.
website blocks don't accomplish that goal, really. Different labs at my school have different policies. The library is the most strict and doesn't even allow you to use email. They have no reason for this policy though, because they have a ton of computers that are always empty. I think the librarians just don't want to deal with extra kids hanging around, which is just rediculous, since they're paid to be there and maintain the library for people to *use*, not to sit empty.
And clearly this is the Internet's fault; I mean it's not like people (photo)copied and turned in entire pages out of good ol' Brittanica before Internet access was widespread.
Something I think a lot of you are missing is that primary and secondary school in America is not entirely 100% academic activity all of the time. It's a glorified free daycare system. And saying "everything you do in this building, especially on those computers, needs to have an academic purpose" is stupid. The kids are there for six or seven hours a day and there's going to be lots of times when they have free time. Blindly censoring what has become the main channel of information for people, in a school, just doesn't seem like the best of ideas. But maybe that's just me.
edit: but then this is the least of the problems that American high schools have, really, so whatever. Just get the hell out as soon as you can, kids, and never look back. Worked for me.
Its much easier to just have the teachers do their fucking job and supervise students then block everything that has a dirty word on it.
-edit-
Well, it's not easier but it makes a lot more sense.... >_<
pleasepaypreacher.net
because spelling that word is more important than the free flow of information. you are so right.
You're talking about what, fifteen year olds? I'm not sure how the ages work in American schools. Either way, I still cannot fathom what a teen needs email for if he can only check it at school. Don't kids carry phones around these days?
Yes, yes it is. And free flowing information? At a school fucking lab? The real world is going to have fun with you.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I think that's due to a lack of at source-finding and how-to-write/source-paper education in high school. Yes, teaching courses is great and essential, but teaching actual literary/writing methods and conventions especially considering alot of fields are going to require you to do some research for your journal articles/papers anyway, has to be stressed somewhat in upper year high school beyond just a sidenote and handout in English class.\
Though I'll add that its not necessarily books de rigeur in university, but journal articles play a major part, and lately, you can get a vast amount of journal articles in web format rather than having to print out the hardcopy.
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Not, apparently, the ones I need to read. Is this more prevalent in scientific circles than historical?
Either way, even if highschoolers need to use journals, they'll find it a lot easier to do without other people hogging the workstations checking their latest slew of chain emails and Facebook notifications.
Well, I have a massive research paper in my PoliSci class that I've managed to find around 4-5 full journal articles in online format. But yes, alot of scientific articles can be viewed online, provided you do so through University access. If you'd like, you can shoot me a PM with the topic and I could always see if I can dig up anything for you.
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Why do you need to check PA at school, anyhow? You do know what the point of school is, right? They're like your parents. They need to get you to do what they see is right, regardless of what you think, in the hopes that when you grow up and become an adult, you'll be functioning and worth a shit.
Now, the way in which many schools are doing this, and the methods of teaching (I could write books on the failures of the "teach by authoritative force method") are flawed and certainly in need of revision. But one of those revisions is not allowing you to dick around on the PA forums in school.
I believe so. When I studied Engineering, some resources were only available online, although to be fair that often had more to do the nature of the resources, or the volume of information they provided.
In contrast, my gf studies Classics, and a lot of the stuff she needs is on paper.
I mean, when we couldn't check comics on my school computers in high school, we'd just dick around on Wikipedia. Or read the news, or talk to each other, or read a book from home (Okay, only I did that). If they really really really restrict it to bare-bones, it's their prerogative. However, I think it's not really stopping kids from wasting time, and is probably less useful than just establishing a coherent usage policy. I.E. "we catch you looking at porn, you use the typewriter."
I appreciate it, but I'm within walking distance of a copyright library, so I can always find the books and articles I need - thanks anyway
Now that I think of it, the only time I have resorted to online journals was when I studied the settlement of Iceland and needed to look up the studies on mitochondrial and Y-c'some DNA. Everything else has been in crisp, glossy journals or glorious, hefty, musty-smelling books that are sometimes even bound in leather
I love libraries.
Of course academic work always gets priority on school computers. Is that even a question? If you need to work on a paper, then kick someone off.
I went to a uber-intense grind school, and we still had reasonable amounts of free time throughout the day in which we were left to our own devices. Lunch, break, and various free periods. Given that they would let us do all sorts of non-educational things in that time (go eat in Berkeley, play sports, talk with friends, read for pleasure, watch movies from the library, and so on), I don't see any reason why they should block something like PA.
In fact, that was when I started on the forums, and I can't say I particularly regret it.
Hmm...yea, on second thought I think one could make a case that it could technically be viewed as copyright infringement since its not for personal use and its distribution. Well, now I look like an idiot.
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Seriously? I've done most of an honours without having to wrangle musty bound volumes and fork over the cost of a kidney in photocopying. Old papers get superseded quite fast, and more and more stuff is online, although its still sometimes difficult to access things older than the early 90's or so (depends on the database though, CSIRO's goes back to the fifties). I've only had to request a couple of hardcopies and scare up some info from actual books.
But yeah, a high school does have a right to block websites to keep the kids from slacking off too much. Colleges, not so much due the aforementioned 'here voluntarily', although that doesn't stop the uber-conservative colleges doing it anyway. But they hate freedom.
Its also technically illegal to play a song where others can hear it in case they don't own a copy of it. I care naught for that principle.
When the fall semester started up and students were given their first taste of the new computer lab, things went smoothly at first. Then I started to notice something funny was going on. The same students would go back there and sit for hours, day after day. Then I started receiving complaints that there were no computers available to study with. My boss was at lunch so I took it upon myself to go back there and check things out. Every student back there was on myspace or facebook. There was literally not one computer open for people to study with. Not having the power to do anything about it myself, I told my boss about it when she got back, and she told me she'd take care of it. So her idea was to put up little signs around the library reminding students that our computers were for academic purposes only. Guess how much good that did.
Things got progressively worse, but the IT boys at our school were sitting on their thumbs doing nothing about it. The students using myspace were sucking all the bandwidth out of what few computers did manage to get freed up for academic use. Then the computers used for testing new students began to lock up in the middle of tests, rendering all the work useless. This caught the dean's ear, and she bitched to the IT boys to do something about it. They checked their charts and sure enough, the computer lab was using so much of the school's bandwidth that the tests could not be processed. They blocked all social networking sites and proxy sites a day later, much to the student body's chagrin. Everything went smoother after that, but I did get my share of dirty looks thrown at me the next day.
tl;dr: I dont think schools should block social networking sites as long as the students are adult enough to use them responsibly.
Just institute the same policy my school's library has...work has priority over play. If anybody needs to use a computer for work, and you're just fucking around on Myspace, you're booted.
EDIT: Won't stop everyone, mind you (alt-tab FTW), but it does go a long way.
Go read some news sites. Inform yourself.
I had something similar, rarely used the computer but when I did a lot of fun things were blocked. However someone did find a site about Islam that wasn't blocked and had it's own game section with flash games that we amused ourselves with to pass the time. They were just normal flash games (hell some could be found on newgrounds) that were for some reason on a Islam site.
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You could do what the UW did and just put up signs that say if your not doing work you can be kicked off which solves the crowded problem. Also how the hell does myspace suck up bandwidth? I'd say the solution is to get a competent IT department and a good internet connection.
I've got news for you.
School IS the break.