I had a fairly long post typed up, but I apparently typed it in the search bar because I was on a phone and am an idiot.
The gist is that I think we're moving into a pretty good place for people who are already in the hobby. Games for gamers by gamers, with each being hand-crafted by someone with a good amount of experience and a specific vision of what they want to make is a recipe for some good stuff.
My primary concern with that model, though, is that it also sounds like a recipe for insularity if we're not careful. Because nothing about a marketplace filled with kickstarters, patreons and unfunded online passion projects is going to bring new blood into the hobby. Eventually, we might just be trading derivative ideas back and forth between people who have been having the same discussion for decades. Which is a way we can go, I guess.
Basically, I'm concerned that we're going to be running out of entry vectors for new players that aren't brought into the fold by someone who's already in the hobby.
I think that is how people get into the hobby, though. I know that some people dove in head first, but it seems like far more people know someone who plays/has played and then a group forms. Our hobby is definitely getting smaller, but I think that's a result of so many choices in entertainment rather than any trend in the marketplace.
I honestly have no idea what the proportion of players who start as part of a 100% new group vs those that start at a table with a bunch of vets is. My primary point is that moving to a boutique, on-demand model in our own dark corners of the internet effectively removes the possibility of a brand new group springing into existence.
Given that that's the way I got into the hobby, I might be more bothered by it than others.
also I don't know about anyone else here but I consider myself an evangelist of the hobby
I've introduced several new people into the game space in the past few years, you just have to adopt the mindset that you are responsible for bringing new blood in, and you can find potential gamers just about anywhere
I think as the technology grows and things like Roll20 and Google Hangouts become better, we will see less of the meatspace games and more online games. Which is sad, as I love meatspace games and until recently couldn't do games online other then PbP, but I think the hobby is going to continue. Now, it will move from more "professional" publications like WotC and into more individual PDFs of the independent writer, which will mean we'll see more crappy games then we had before, but with a hobby this small, I think we will see a shift in where the money goes.
Also, once 3D printers become cheaper, the miniature market is going to explode.
+1
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I think you have to be an Evangelist. Try new games! Run them for strangers! I have 3-4 different groups (some have overlap, others none). Overall, my extended circle of people who play RPGs has like 30 people in it.
also I don't know about anyone else here but I consider myself an evangelist of the hobby
I've introduced several new people into the game space in the past few years, you just have to adopt the mindset that you are responsible for bringing new blood in, and you can find potential gamers just about anywhere
Once I made peace with my inescapable nature as a game-runner instead of a game-player, I made it a personal goal to introduce as many people to the hobby as possible. I've been pretty successful, in spurts at least, over the last decade and a half or so. But most of those have been young adults or adult professionals.
None of that is putting a PHB (or other book) in the hands of a young kid* and firing their imagination to the point that it engulfs them and their friends. That's the side of the hobby I worry about losing.
*Though I did donate roughly a hundred of my old system and source books of various games to local libraries and the YMCA last time I moved.
I just spent the last few hours researching 3D Printers. I might save up and buy me one. They are surprisingly cheap now (gen 2 cost $600), so I might get into it.
Getting model files will be more the issue though somebody was working on some kind of character builder/poser that could export to STL. Don't remember where that was from though.
Man, I love the Earth*Dawn lore and world It's so nice to have a world were dungeons and trap actually make sense. And what's not to love about dinosaur people.
But, man, fuck that dice mechanic.
// PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
By my count I have introduced about 30 people into tabletop RPGs.
Of those, only about two or three have actually gone out and purchased books for themselves. The rest are more than happy to let me -- the eternal GM -- know all the rules. Maybe this is my fault.
By my count I have introduced about 30 people into tabletop RPGs.
Of those, only about two or three have actually gone out and purchased books for themselves. The rest are more than happy to let me -- the eternal GM -- know all the rules. Maybe this is my fault.
This is always the risk. I have yet to find a good way to transition from "I've got this cool thing you should try" to "and now you can do it yourself" without going through "you're going to need to pay for some of this at some point" and feeling like a jerk.
So we gave Strike's tactical combat a whirl. Just the tank (think Hunter) and off-tank (think Druid). Went up against four at-level opponents and managed to eke out a Pyrrhic victory. Amusingly enough having both tanks separate and mark the same target provides a lot of free attacks. Pretty sure this is intended.
On the whole it feels a lot like an improved version of 4e's tactical combat, with less "power cards" to manage and more emphasis on making sound tactical decisions with your relatively thin deck of cards. Progression looks as if the current at-will heavy balance of abilities will remain true until 10th level (cap level) at which point you should have about the same amount of points.
The emphasis on the "fiction" (what we would typically refer to as narrative) taking primacy makes oddball characters really come to life. The hunter who uses caplock pistols equally well as firearms and clubs depending on where his target is, the pet that hurls fireballs, and the tortoise-"form" druid that blasts people with water cannons when they leave openings. All evoked by the methodologies; although we focused primarily on mastering the tactical rules rather than maintaining the fiction, it was still easy to see it come to life.
The tactical combat rules are in playtest right now, and I am not certain but I believe the eventual outcome will be to offer them for a low price as a supplement for the basic rules (which are completely playable on their own and plenty of fun).
The 1d6 roll to resolve everything seems really swingy at first (and it is: you have a 16.66% chance of critical success or critical failure; on the whole you have a 33% chance of missing and 66% chance of hitting). The upside is this drives combat to resolve relatively quickly. You could easily finish a combat inside of an hour with a party of four, judging by our result. We'll probably have a chance to test that theory with a party of 5 this weekend, although it did lead us to discover that we're spread too thin in roles (two tanks, two strikers, one blaster = no bueno) so we'll probably discuss that with the group and re-jigger characters to construct a fully functional party after seeing how it goes. I think realizing that tactical combat really demands a well-balanced group is the most disappointing discovery about the game thus far (and it's qualified; it may turn out that we just steamroll everything before not having a healer matters), but it is an optional mode of conflict resolution, so...
By my count I have introduced about 30 people into tabletop RPGs.
Of those, only about two or three have actually gone out and purchased books for themselves. The rest are more than happy to let me -- the eternal GM -- know all the rules. Maybe this is my fault.
This is always the risk. I have yet to find a good way to transition from "I've got this cool thing you should try" to "and now you can do it yourself" without going through "you're going to need to pay for some of this at some point" and feeling like a jerk.
It's kinda nice when the game doesn't require that all players own the book.
D&D? Buy the books, please.
Savage Worlds games? You just need to jot down a quick note about your new Edge, on your 3x5" index card.
Pathfinder? You need WiFi access, and that's about it.
It's also a lot nicer and easier to get players to spring for tabletop supplies like markers and figures, than book glut. My local group revolves through games so much that if we were expected to buy the books every time, there would not be much of a group.
When playing D&D in-person, there was no issue with letting people borrow books at the table, but if you liked the game well enough you eventually bought at least some of the books because people aren't always going to bring the books you want every week and how do you support the hobby if you don't give the companies money?
There's nothing wrong with passing one book around the table. I do that all the time. Hell, at this point I rarely bother bringing the books to the table unless there's something specific I want in them for that session.
But if that's what you do every time, there's no money going back to the people producing the stuff you're using.
Which is ok in a kickstarter/patreon/onlinefreestuff model of production, but it's not going to support an industry.
My group's kind of weird in that some of us prefer books, some prefer PDF, and some want both. Our normal operation is that the DM buys the book for a new system, shares it or a PDF of it with the rest of the group, and if we like the system enough to play more than one campaign, we tend to pick up another two or three copies of it (my group has 6 people).
Man, I love the Earth*Dawn lore and world It's so nice to have a world were dungeons and trap actually make sense. And what's not to love about dinosaur people.
But, man, fuck that dice mechanic.
The dice mechanic is simple. Each step is simply the average roll, and you can simply add bonuses as +/- to the roll instead of a step, as a faster substitute, or not roll at all and just treat the step as your roll. I also like that Earthdawn had easy to use defense values for physical, spell, and social defense, making it a breeze to resolve any given test, even tests that are not explicitly covered by the rules.
The problem is that damn lookup table for determining a good or excellent result. Also, the damn bookkeeping and having to level up each individual power (great for an MMO, but not so much for tabletop). I love Earthdawn, but there is a reason we are playing it using ORE instead.
When playing D&D in-person, there was no issue with letting people borrow books at the table, but if you liked the game well enough you eventually bought at least some of the books because people aren't always going to bring the books you want every week and how do you support the hobby if you don't give the companies money?
I'm not going to force the purchase decision on anyone. If they want to buy books, hooray. If not, well, we've still got one. The more important thing to impress upon them is this is supposed to be fun. I don't need "a professionally designed game" to have fun. I am well into my 30s and still have fun going into the woods and playing hide and seek. I hope to be able to say the same when I'm in my 60s.
I look at this the same way I do music. I love music. But I will sooner spend $15 to go see a live show than I will to buy a CD. It's not that I want musicians to starve (to the contrary), it's that I have more fun spending my money to see Eugene Hutz rip his shirt off, drink an entire bottle of wine, and dance maniacally for two hours than I would listening to one of Gogol Bordello's albums. And it's about fun, isn't it?
I think the natural outgrowth of that is I find myself playing more and more "free" games (these are actually pay-as-you-like in most cases) and honestly not missing the big production stuff. But occasionally something comes along (and lately it's been from Pelgrane) that makes me go "that's totally worth my all of my entertainment budget." And then I re-skin it for whatever I want to play it with. That's a lot of gaming experience (decades) and a real comfort with being told "Ardent, we have this square peg and that round hole. Make it work" and knowing I can deliver (although I will predict it will take at least three times as long as I actually believe, so I look like a genius delivering on time).
More to the point, would an absence of money in the "industry" ever really stop people from writing and asking for $5 for an RPG? No. And that's great.
I don't think there's any less money in the table gaming industry these days. If anything, I think there's more purchase dollars in the industry. I'll admit that I am only really judging this from my own experiences at GenCon. I've gone every year since 2007, and attendance has only gotten larger every year.
What I think has happened, though, is that there are more companies in the industry for those dollars to go to. Along with attendance, the other huge trend I've seen is that there are more and more gaming companies at GenCon every year, and less and less "merchants" attending trying to get rid of old product.
And a lot of it is quality work too. Even systems I don't personally like (say, Fate, for instance) I can see why it would appeal to other people. I really feel that its more a matter of the money being spread among more gaming creators rather than there being less of it.
Man, I love the Earth*Dawn lore and world It's so nice to have a world were dungeons and trap actually make sense. And what's not to love about dinosaur people.
But, man, fuck that dice mechanic.
The dice mechanic is simple. Each step is simply the average roll, and you can simply add bonuses as +/- to the roll instead of a step, as a faster substitute, or not roll at all and just treat the step as your roll. I also like that Earthdawn had easy to use defense values for physical, spell, and social defense, making it a breeze to resolve any given test, even tests that are not explicitly covered by the rules.
The problem is that damn lookup table for determining a good or excellent result. Also, the damn bookkeeping and having to level up each individual power (great for an MMO, but not so much for tabletop). I love Earthdawn, but there is a reason we are playing it using ORE instead.
That table went away in 4th. Not sure about the bookkeeping.
I don't think there's any less money in the table gaming industry these days. If anything, I think there's more purchase dollars in the industry. I'll admit that I am only really judging this from my own experiences at GenCon. I've gone every year since 2007, and attendance has only gotten larger every year.
What I think has happened, though, is that there are more companies in the industry for those dollars to go to. Along with attendance, the other huge trend I've seen is that there are more and more gaming companies at GenCon every year, and less and less "merchants" attending trying to get rid of old product.
And a lot of it is quality work too. Even systems I don't personally like (say, Fate, for instance) I can see why it would appeal to other people. I really feel that its more a matter of the money being spread among more gaming creators rather than there being less of it.
Given the secrecy and jealousy with which most publishers protect their sales numbers trying to make any sort of judgment on how much money is available in the market is probably pointless. Just my opinion there, but my gut is that there may be more people gaming (there are more people gaming, actually, I'm comfortable with that observation) but the amount of money has probably stayed the same or declined. It's a simple matter of economics. The average salary has stagnated. That means entertainment budgets are frozen as well. People now have to do more with less. So I would be skeptical at the news that expenditures in one part of the entertainment market have increased where they're stagnant or declining everywhere else.
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Every time I run a session of Torchbearer I'm reminded why it's my favorite system to run. Hard rules for resource management coupled with harder decisions (mostly made worse by player's with terrifically bad ideas). Tonight's sessions (which was number 11 in this campaign) ended with the players slipping down a tunnel into the Underdark and their torches going out.
Right now, the main thing that matters to me on if I buy a game or not is if I can actually play it. I bought Eclipse Phase five years ago and I've yet to play it. $30+ to look at Slopopi. It's even signed by Brian Cross (happened two years later by the most random of chances) but I've never played it, created a character, nothing. And when I see games like Edge of the Empire going for $60, I'm scared to invest that much money on something I'll never play.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Yeah, I used to buy every game I wanted. Now, I know that I realistically won't have a chance to play a lot of these if I do. I also routinely purge my RPG collection of things I have played but won't (Shadowrun, Pathfinder, 4th Edition). The last game that I bought was Dungeon World like 8 months ago. I haven't even had a chance to read all of it.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I am extremely lucky in that I have access to a general gaming club with a wide variety of players to draw from. Hence I am able to run a game of DnD, Trail of Cthulhu and Shadowrun simultaneously. Time to make the most of it while it lasts!
I have a monthly budget that I spend on games, and now that I have more board games than I'll likely ever play I'm back to spending it on RPGs.
Now that I've got a nice tablet, I'll probably start moving toward electronic versions of the books, but I have literally hundreds of RPG materials (mostly books) floating around my house, much to the chagrin of my wife.
Most of it has never actually been played. I'm just a huge nerd and I grew up reading old Monster Manuals and Ninjas and Superspies and such that I found in the used bookstore. Some people do yoga to relax, I read RPG books.
I don't think there's any less money in the table gaming industry these days. If anything, I think there's more purchase dollars in the industry. I'll admit that I am only really judging this from my own experiences at GenCon. I've gone every year since 2007, and attendance has only gotten larger every year.
What I think has happened, though, is that there are more companies in the industry for those dollars to go to. Along with attendance, the other huge trend I've seen is that there are more and more gaming companies at GenCon every year, and less and less "merchants" attending trying to get rid of old product.
And a lot of it is quality work too. Even systems I don't personally like (say, Fate, for instance) I can see why it would appeal to other people. I really feel that its more a matter of the money being spread among more gaming creators rather than there being less of it.
I think this hits the nail on the head.
Though, from a personal perspective, it's had the effect of also reducing the amount of money I spend on RPG materials in total. I don't buy minis specific to a genre or game, I often use tokens instead. I don't buy maps, I use whiteboards with measured squares. I don't buy expansion books for games, because after 4-8 weeks we'll be playing something else anyways. That has actually lessened the amount of money I spend on RPG materials, in comparison to buying D&D 3.5 splat books every week.
I buy just about anything Glorantha related and probably will as long as I live and can afford to. For me it's something that goes above and beyond the gaming aspect.
As to other games, I'm trying to limit myself to buying one system at a time. Right now that's The One Ring, as I can devour anything Middle Earth even if I'm not currently playing a game. The more fluff a game has the better.
So, for those of you familiar with the board/card games put out by Level 99 games that are set in the Indines universe, I've got a question.
I've been on a real Indines kick lately after receiving my kickstarter for Argent (have picked up Pixel Tactics, 7 Card Slug Fest, and have a pre-order for all the new BattleCON stuff + a copy of Disc Duelers, and will likely be picking up Sellswords soon), but it really makes me want to run an RPG of it.
What systems do you guys think might fit well? I mean, obviously there's FATE, but I'm not sure if that feels high-powered enough? I love Dungeon World, and it could capture the high intensity of it all, but the system is pretty heavily class-based, so wouldn't really facilitate "everybody is unique in their awesomeness" that the World of Indines tend to embrace. Something like FFGs Narrative system suffers the same issue.
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
I'm not sure about Indines specifically, but I can speak to the issues a high-power setting is going to struggle with in Fate.
The first is that Fate does not handle numbers greater than +6 (e.g. up to 10) with anything approaching grace. The second is that the combat model starts to break down when people are bringing +6 skills to bear; it's hard to generate enough teamwork to get over those kinds of numbers. Waiving the normal rules regarding stacking provides a relatively painless way to relieve that pressure valve.
We flirted with both "stunt trees" and increasing the default value of a stunt to +3 (or equivalents). The former provides slightly better results than the ladder, although people often feel "forced to specialize" into their stunt trees. The latter just exacerbates the numbers problem.
From there you're grappling with the issue of "how do these characters improve?" The short answer is: they get more well-rounded. This is going to disappoint some players, obviously.
But fundamentally you need to examine your frame of mind. If you slide the ladder so that +1 is more like "a professional" and +2 is "among the best in the country" you can easily set up a game where +4 is peak human or superhuman.
Increase the number of Fate Points in the economy by encouraging them all to maintain large Refresh pools. This means they'll use them with much higher frequency.
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
I'm not sure about Indines specifically, but I can speak to the issues a high-power setting is going to struggle with in Fate.
The first is that Fate does not handle numbers greater than +6 (e.g. up to 10) with anything approaching grace. The second is that the combat model starts to break down when people are bringing +6 skills to bear; it's hard to generate enough teamwork to get over those kinds of numbers. Waiving the normal rules regarding stacking provides a relatively painless way to relieve that pressure valve.
We flirted with both "stunt trees" and increasing the default value of a stunt to +3 (or equivalents). The former provides slightly better results than the ladder, although people often feel "forced to specialize" into their stunt trees. The latter just exacerbates the numbers problem.
From there you're grappling with the issue of "how do these characters improve?" The short answer is: they get more well-rounded. This is going to disappoint some players, obviously.
But fundamentally you need to examine your frame of mind. If you slide the ladder so that +1 is more like "a professional" and +2 is "among the best in the country" you can easily set up a game where +4 is peak human or superhuman.
Increase the number of Fate Points in the economy by encouraging them all to maintain large Refresh pools. This means they'll use them with much higher frequency.
That's similar to how Atomic Robo handles it. The World of Indines has a weird power balance though, as you've got dragons in human form, Steel Elementals that are straight up T-1000s, Alien Sailor Scout/Cosmic Horror mash-ups, and a bunch of other crazy shit, fighting against really stubborn dudes with swords and armor. So its an odd duck, where something seems like it should be crazy powerful, but then its revealed a guy properly trained in combat is just as deadly as the undead dryad husk who commands an insect army, or the straight-up time traveler. Well, to a degree. Certain characters, like the multi-thousand-year old dragons and such are caveated with "Yeah, they go easy on people because where's the fun in crushing them without a fight?" or some other limiter that is only released when death is pretty close.
Just trying to find a system that can capture that sort of feel. FATE's numbers should work if you just shift the scale. I guess it just doesn't feel as super to me sometimes due to the fact that I just haven't read over any settings like this that its been used for. I'm more concerned that the stunts and Fate points required to make the effects these characters are unleashing work might be too much and run into the problems like you mentioned.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
Since I started thinking about compels as affecting the wider narrative rather than the PCs immediate situation, I find interesting compels much easier.
I buy just about anything Glorantha related and probably will as long as I live and can afford to. For me it's something that goes above and beyond the gaming aspect.
As to other games, I'm trying to limit myself to buying one system at a time. Right now that's The One Ring, as I can devour anything Middle Earth even if I'm not currently playing a game. The more fluff a game has the better.
Are you playing The One Ring? I have it, and want to play it after I've played lots more 13th Age and Dungeon World.
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
I'm not sure about Indines specifically, but I can speak to the issues a high-power setting is going to struggle with in Fate.
The first is that Fate does not handle numbers greater than +6 (e.g. up to 10) with anything approaching grace. The second is that the combat model starts to break down when people are bringing +6 skills to bear; it's hard to generate enough teamwork to get over those kinds of numbers. Waiving the normal rules regarding stacking provides a relatively painless way to relieve that pressure valve.
We flirted with both "stunt trees" and increasing the default value of a stunt to +3 (or equivalents). The former provides slightly better results than the ladder, although people often feel "forced to specialize" into their stunt trees. The latter just exacerbates the numbers problem.
From there you're grappling with the issue of "how do these characters improve?" The short answer is: they get more well-rounded. This is going to disappoint some players, obviously.
But fundamentally you need to examine your frame of mind. If you slide the ladder so that +1 is more like "a professional" and +2 is "among the best in the country" you can easily set up a game where +4 is peak human or superhuman.
Increase the number of Fate Points in the economy by encouraging them all to maintain large Refresh pools. This means they'll use them with much higher frequency.
That's similar to how Atomic Robo handles it. The World of Indines has a weird power balance though, as you've got dragons in human form, Steel Elementals that are straight up T-1000s, Alien Sailor Scout/Cosmic Horror mash-ups, and a bunch of other crazy shit, fighting against really stubborn dudes with swords and armor. So its an odd duck, where something seems like it should be crazy powerful, but then its revealed a guy properly trained in combat is just as deadly as the undead dryad husk who commands an insect army, or the straight-up time traveler. Well, to a degree. Certain characters, like the multi-thousand-year old dragons and such are caveated with "Yeah, they go easy on people because where's the fun in crushing them without a fight?" or some other limiter that is only released when death is pretty close.
Just trying to find a system that can capture that sort of feel. FATE's numbers should work if you just shift the scale. I guess it just doesn't feel as super to me sometimes due to the fact that I just haven't read over any settings like this that its been used for. I'm more concerned that the stunts and Fate points required to make the effects these characters are unleashing work might be too much and run into the problems like you mentioned.
Marvel Heroics. It's already made for this kind of play.
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
I'm not sure about Indines specifically, but I can speak to the issues a high-power setting is going to struggle with in Fate.
The first is that Fate does not handle numbers greater than +6 (e.g. up to 10) with anything approaching grace. The second is that the combat model starts to break down when people are bringing +6 skills to bear; it's hard to generate enough teamwork to get over those kinds of numbers. Waiving the normal rules regarding stacking provides a relatively painless way to relieve that pressure valve.
We flirted with both "stunt trees" and increasing the default value of a stunt to +3 (or equivalents). The former provides slightly better results than the ladder, although people often feel "forced to specialize" into their stunt trees. The latter just exacerbates the numbers problem.
From there you're grappling with the issue of "how do these characters improve?" The short answer is: they get more well-rounded. This is going to disappoint some players, obviously.
But fundamentally you need to examine your frame of mind. If you slide the ladder so that +1 is more like "a professional" and +2 is "among the best in the country" you can easily set up a game where +4 is peak human or superhuman.
Increase the number of Fate Points in the economy by encouraging them all to maintain large Refresh pools. This means they'll use them with much higher frequency.
That's similar to how Atomic Robo handles it. The World of Indines has a weird power balance though, as you've got dragons in human form, Steel Elementals that are straight up T-1000s, Alien Sailor Scout/Cosmic Horror mash-ups, and a bunch of other crazy shit, fighting against really stubborn dudes with swords and armor. So its an odd duck, where something seems like it should be crazy powerful, but then its revealed a guy properly trained in combat is just as deadly as the undead dryad husk who commands an insect army, or the straight-up time traveler. Well, to a degree. Certain characters, like the multi-thousand-year old dragons and such are caveated with "Yeah, they go easy on people because where's the fun in crushing them without a fight?" or some other limiter that is only released when death is pretty close.
Just trying to find a system that can capture that sort of feel. FATE's numbers should work if you just shift the scale. I guess it just doesn't feel as super to me sometimes due to the fact that I just haven't read over any settings like this that its been used for. I'm more concerned that the stunts and Fate points required to make the effects these characters are unleashing work might be too much and run into the problems like you mentioned.
Marvel Heroics. It's already made for this kind of play.
I actually already own that, but I haven't opened it in forever. How easy is it to customize powers and not just run a traditional hero/power set?
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
I recently got to try and make some Pokemon-related character stuff in Marvel Heroics with zero experience with the system. Took me a couple hours but it wasn't too hard at all. Most of the work was just trying to figure out how to get wonky circular peg anime rpg concepts into square-shaped hole super hero mechanics.
GM approved it all so I guess I did okay despite not knowing what I was doin'.
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
I'm not sure about Indines specifically, but I can speak to the issues a high-power setting is going to struggle with in Fate.
The first is that Fate does not handle numbers greater than +6 (e.g. up to 10) with anything approaching grace. The second is that the combat model starts to break down when people are bringing +6 skills to bear; it's hard to generate enough teamwork to get over those kinds of numbers. Waiving the normal rules regarding stacking provides a relatively painless way to relieve that pressure valve.
We flirted with both "stunt trees" and increasing the default value of a stunt to +3 (or equivalents). The former provides slightly better results than the ladder, although people often feel "forced to specialize" into their stunt trees. The latter just exacerbates the numbers problem.
From there you're grappling with the issue of "how do these characters improve?" The short answer is: they get more well-rounded. This is going to disappoint some players, obviously.
But fundamentally you need to examine your frame of mind. If you slide the ladder so that +1 is more like "a professional" and +2 is "among the best in the country" you can easily set up a game where +4 is peak human or superhuman.
Increase the number of Fate Points in the economy by encouraging them all to maintain large Refresh pools. This means they'll use them with much higher frequency.
That's similar to how Atomic Robo handles it. The World of Indines has a weird power balance though, as you've got dragons in human form, Steel Elementals that are straight up T-1000s, Alien Sailor Scout/Cosmic Horror mash-ups, and a bunch of other crazy shit, fighting against really stubborn dudes with swords and armor. So its an odd duck, where something seems like it should be crazy powerful, but then its revealed a guy properly trained in combat is just as deadly as the undead dryad husk who commands an insect army, or the straight-up time traveler. Well, to a degree. Certain characters, like the multi-thousand-year old dragons and such are caveated with "Yeah, they go easy on people because where's the fun in crushing them without a fight?" or some other limiter that is only released when death is pretty close.
Just trying to find a system that can capture that sort of feel. FATE's numbers should work if you just shift the scale. I guess it just doesn't feel as super to me sometimes due to the fact that I just haven't read over any settings like this that its been used for. I'm more concerned that the stunts and Fate points required to make the effects these characters are unleashing work might be too much and run into the problems like you mentioned.
Marvel Heroics. It's already made for this kind of play.
I actually already own that, but I haven't opened it in forever. How easy is it to customize powers and not just run a traditional hero/power set?
Easy as hell. Once you understand how the game works, making custom characters is a piece of cake.
I recently got to try and make some Pokemon-related character stuff in Marvel Heroics with zero experience with the system. Took me a couple hours but it wasn't too hard at all. Most of the work was just trying to figure out how to get wonky circular peg anime rpg concepts into square-shaped hole super hero mechanics.
GM approved it all so I guess I did okay despite not knowing what I was doin'.
Is there a way you could share that? I have a piece of an idea for a Pokémon game for a while but I haven't written anything yet.
Is there a way you could share that? I have a piece of an idea for a Pokémon game for a while but I haven't written anything yet.
Sure, I do a shitload of pokemon tabletop stuff and save everything so it ain't no thing.
The group came together rather sporadically with a GM who I believe is new to MHR, and in any case I'm fairly certain at this point that the game has stalled sufficiently that it won't get off the ground, but nonetheless I've got the GM instructions and the character sheet I made (no one else got anything else done yet, far as I know).
Rules
Read the book.
Pokemon are Power Sets. Each Trainer can hold a maximum of 2* pokemon at once. Trainers have no obligation to have the maximum.
Under normal Action Scene circumstances, only one Pokemon may participate in one roll.
Switching Pokemon does not cost a turn - simply use a different Pokemon’s power set on your next turn. Pokemon may not be switched during a Reaction roll.
Players may replace a Pokemon on-hand with a new Pokemon for a cost of 5xp.
Each Pokemon must have a Limit based on its type. All Types will be weak to at least two other types. Players may choose to give their Pokemon multiple Types, as well as more than two disadvantages per Type. As per Marvel Heroic rules, players gain one Plot Point every time their Limit is invoked.
* Note that you can have a MAX of 6, but it will cost you 1xp each time you wanna switch out a poke-power set of your 2 (out of a total of 6).
** also note that your 3rd power set is for trainer-related shit. Like psychic powers or ace-training, etc
*** also note the most common way for you as a group to gain PP is to just shut down power sets (pokemon or your own abilities), This can range from excuses such as you've sent your friend on recon, he got lost, he's KOd, w/e
For each pokemon beyond your first, you gotta drop all relevant power sets for that pokemon.
Namely, your starter can be made as varied as you like, maybe limit it's sets to 1d10, 1d8, and any number of d6s as appropriate.
Any ADDITIONAL mons can have 3 sets, than 2, than 1. Lets try to avoid starting with 4 poke-friends
Also keep in mind the 3 types of damage (mental, physical, emotional) are specifically for your trainer, but can be ruled as "shared" among you and your allies (pokemon). So if you hit the max on physical and would be KO'd from the scene, you can always just rule your pokefriends are out of commission and you dont think you can handle that giant fire-breathing lizard alone. So you surrender
TIPS
Oh, as a note, I'd advise making your lowest-tier milestone something iconic you feel you can achieve frequently since the cost to just switch out your team of 2 (of 6) is 1xp each time and will run you a high cost if you're reckless. So you need a good means to keep recurring some income.
Not a lot to go off of, so I spent a lot of time flipping through webpages and the book looking for examples/guidance. I also could not for the life of me find a good character sheet so I ended up making my own because I do that kind of thing.
Character
(Pixel dice I used are recolors of the ones made by artist "DeviusQC" and can be found here.)
Whipped up a Hiker type of Trainer who would specialize in Ground, Rock, and Grass Types. Obviously the dice have been scaled down such that a d10 is more "impressive" than "godlike" and so on. We were also encouraged to give the Poke-powersets a shitload of SFX, which is why I have so many of them. Something about having a lot of PP to spend.
Overall I'm a little iffy about using MHR for Pokemon, but it was what the GM was using so I rolled with it. Could be that it flows really well in actual play but it's not looking like I'll get the opportunity to find out, unfortunately. Always fun to try and work pokemon into a new system and seeing what works and what doesn't, though.
However, I would have way fewer SFX and limits, and I would have more Specialities, because you get to add those into every pool, and choosing from two is dull.
Oh, and I wouldn't make Trainer a powerset - just Specialities and Distinctions. I would probably push Distinctions to be more descriptive and less catchphrasey. Your Trainer powerset would be a Distinction of 'Tough As Teak' and maybe 'Unbreakable Walking Stick'.
As they stand, your Distinctions are more like Fate Aspects, but the XP is more goals than the Distinctions should be.
Posts
Given that that's the way I got into the hobby, I might be more bothered by it than others.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I've introduced several new people into the game space in the past few years, you just have to adopt the mindset that you are responsible for bringing new blood in, and you can find potential gamers just about anywhere
Also, once 3D printers become cheaper, the miniature market is going to explode.
None of that is putting a PHB (or other book) in the hands of a young kid* and firing their imagination to the point that it engulfs them and their friends. That's the side of the hobby I worry about losing.
*Though I did donate roughly a hundred of my old system and source books of various games to local libraries and the YMCA last time I moved.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
wait, who owns the rights to Martian Metal and is it possible to make bioplastic from bloo-YES YES I HAVE THE BEST VIRAL MARKETING PLAN.
But, man, fuck that dice mechanic.
Of those, only about two or three have actually gone out and purchased books for themselves. The rest are more than happy to let me -- the eternal GM -- know all the rules. Maybe this is my fault.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
On the whole it feels a lot like an improved version of 4e's tactical combat, with less "power cards" to manage and more emphasis on making sound tactical decisions with your relatively thin deck of cards. Progression looks as if the current at-will heavy balance of abilities will remain true until 10th level (cap level) at which point you should have about the same amount of points.
The emphasis on the "fiction" (what we would typically refer to as narrative) taking primacy makes oddball characters really come to life. The hunter who uses caplock pistols equally well as firearms and clubs depending on where his target is, the pet that hurls fireballs, and the tortoise-"form" druid that blasts people with water cannons when they leave openings. All evoked by the methodologies; although we focused primarily on mastering the tactical rules rather than maintaining the fiction, it was still easy to see it come to life.
The tactical combat rules are in playtest right now, and I am not certain but I believe the eventual outcome will be to offer them for a low price as a supplement for the basic rules (which are completely playable on their own and plenty of fun).
The 1d6 roll to resolve everything seems really swingy at first (and it is: you have a 16.66% chance of critical success or critical failure; on the whole you have a 33% chance of missing and 66% chance of hitting). The upside is this drives combat to resolve relatively quickly. You could easily finish a combat inside of an hour with a party of four, judging by our result. We'll probably have a chance to test that theory with a party of 5 this weekend, although it did lead us to discover that we're spread too thin in roles (two tanks, two strikers, one blaster = no bueno) so we'll probably discuss that with the group and re-jigger characters to construct a fully functional party after seeing how it goes. I think realizing that tactical combat really demands a well-balanced group is the most disappointing discovery about the game thus far (and it's qualified; it may turn out that we just steamroll everything before not having a healer matters), but it is an optional mode of conflict resolution, so...
It's kinda nice when the game doesn't require that all players own the book.
D&D? Buy the books, please.
Savage Worlds games? You just need to jot down a quick note about your new Edge, on your 3x5" index card.
Pathfinder? You need WiFi access, and that's about it.
It's also a lot nicer and easier to get players to spring for tabletop supplies like markers and figures, than book glut. My local group revolves through games so much that if we were expected to buy the books every time, there would not be much of a group.
But if that's what you do every time, there's no money going back to the people producing the stuff you're using.
Which is ok in a kickstarter/patreon/onlinefreestuff model of production, but it's not going to support an industry.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The problem is that damn lookup table for determining a good or excellent result. Also, the damn bookkeeping and having to level up each individual power (great for an MMO, but not so much for tabletop). I love Earthdawn, but there is a reason we are playing it using ORE instead.
I look at this the same way I do music. I love music. But I will sooner spend $15 to go see a live show than I will to buy a CD. It's not that I want musicians to starve (to the contrary), it's that I have more fun spending my money to see Eugene Hutz rip his shirt off, drink an entire bottle of wine, and dance maniacally for two hours than I would listening to one of Gogol Bordello's albums. And it's about fun, isn't it?
I think the natural outgrowth of that is I find myself playing more and more "free" games (these are actually pay-as-you-like in most cases) and honestly not missing the big production stuff. But occasionally something comes along (and lately it's been from Pelgrane) that makes me go "that's totally worth my all of my entertainment budget." And then I re-skin it for whatever I want to play it with. That's a lot of gaming experience (decades) and a real comfort with being told "Ardent, we have this square peg and that round hole. Make it work" and knowing I can deliver (although I will predict it will take at least three times as long as I actually believe, so I look like a genius delivering on time).
More to the point, would an absence of money in the "industry" ever really stop people from writing and asking for $5 for an RPG? No. And that's great.
What I think has happened, though, is that there are more companies in the industry for those dollars to go to. Along with attendance, the other huge trend I've seen is that there are more and more gaming companies at GenCon every year, and less and less "merchants" attending trying to get rid of old product.
And a lot of it is quality work too. Even systems I don't personally like (say, Fate, for instance) I can see why it would appeal to other people. I really feel that its more a matter of the money being spread among more gaming creators rather than there being less of it.
That table went away in 4th. Not sure about the bookkeeping.
Comics, Games, Booze
Now that I've got a nice tablet, I'll probably start moving toward electronic versions of the books, but I have literally hundreds of RPG materials (mostly books) floating around my house, much to the chagrin of my wife.
Most of it has never actually been played. I'm just a huge nerd and I grew up reading old Monster Manuals and Ninjas and Superspies and such that I found in the used bookstore. Some people do yoga to relax, I read RPG books.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I think this hits the nail on the head.
Though, from a personal perspective, it's had the effect of also reducing the amount of money I spend on RPG materials in total. I don't buy minis specific to a genre or game, I often use tokens instead. I don't buy maps, I use whiteboards with measured squares. I don't buy expansion books for games, because after 4-8 weeks we'll be playing something else anyways. That has actually lessened the amount of money I spend on RPG materials, in comparison to buying D&D 3.5 splat books every week.
As to other games, I'm trying to limit myself to buying one system at a time. Right now that's The One Ring, as I can devour anything Middle Earth even if I'm not currently playing a game. The more fluff a game has the better.
I've been on a real Indines kick lately after receiving my kickstarter for Argent (have picked up Pixel Tactics, 7 Card Slug Fest, and have a pre-order for all the new BattleCON stuff + a copy of Disc Duelers, and will likely be picking up Sellswords soon), but it really makes me want to run an RPG of it.
What systems do you guys think might fit well? I mean, obviously there's FATE, but I'm not sure if that feels high-powered enough? I love Dungeon World, and it could capture the high intensity of it all, but the system is pretty heavily class-based, so wouldn't really facilitate "everybody is unique in their awesomeness" that the World of Indines tend to embrace. Something like FFGs Narrative system suffers the same issue.
So, I'd love some suggestions, or some good pre-existing FATE systems that do a good job of feeling "spectacular". I have Atomic Robo, which is probably close enough to work if I can't find anything else.
The first is that Fate does not handle numbers greater than +6 (e.g. up to 10) with anything approaching grace. The second is that the combat model starts to break down when people are bringing +6 skills to bear; it's hard to generate enough teamwork to get over those kinds of numbers. Waiving the normal rules regarding stacking provides a relatively painless way to relieve that pressure valve.
We flirted with both "stunt trees" and increasing the default value of a stunt to +3 (or equivalents). The former provides slightly better results than the ladder, although people often feel "forced to specialize" into their stunt trees. The latter just exacerbates the numbers problem.
From there you're grappling with the issue of "how do these characters improve?" The short answer is: they get more well-rounded. This is going to disappoint some players, obviously.
But fundamentally you need to examine your frame of mind. If you slide the ladder so that +1 is more like "a professional" and +2 is "among the best in the country" you can easily set up a game where +4 is peak human or superhuman.
Increase the number of Fate Points in the economy by encouraging them all to maintain large Refresh pools. This means they'll use them with much higher frequency.
That's similar to how Atomic Robo handles it. The World of Indines has a weird power balance though, as you've got dragons in human form, Steel Elementals that are straight up T-1000s, Alien Sailor Scout/Cosmic Horror mash-ups, and a bunch of other crazy shit, fighting against really stubborn dudes with swords and armor. So its an odd duck, where something seems like it should be crazy powerful, but then its revealed a guy properly trained in combat is just as deadly as the undead dryad husk who commands an insect army, or the straight-up time traveler. Well, to a degree. Certain characters, like the multi-thousand-year old dragons and such are caveated with "Yeah, they go easy on people because where's the fun in crushing them without a fight?" or some other limiter that is only released when death is pretty close.
Just trying to find a system that can capture that sort of feel. FATE's numbers should work if you just shift the scale. I guess it just doesn't feel as super to me sometimes due to the fact that I just haven't read over any settings like this that its been used for. I'm more concerned that the stunts and Fate points required to make the effects these characters are unleashing work might be too much and run into the problems like you mentioned.
For me, the armory thing makes
Are you playing The One Ring? I have it, and want to play it after I've played lots more 13th Age and Dungeon World.
Marvel Heroics. It's already made for this kind of play.
I actually already own that, but I haven't opened it in forever. How easy is it to customize powers and not just run a traditional hero/power set?
GM approved it all so I guess I did okay despite not knowing what I was doin'.
Easy as hell. Once you understand how the game works, making custom characters is a piece of cake.
Is there a way you could share that? I have a piece of an idea for a Pokémon game for a while but I haven't written anything yet.
Sure, I do a shitload of pokemon tabletop stuff and save everything so it ain't no thing.
The group came together rather sporadically with a GM who I believe is new to MHR, and in any case I'm fairly certain at this point that the game has stalled sufficiently that it won't get off the ground, but nonetheless I've got the GM instructions and the character sheet I made (no one else got anything else done yet, far as I know).
Rules
Pokemon are Power Sets. Each Trainer can hold a maximum of 2* pokemon at once. Trainers have no obligation to have the maximum.
Under normal Action Scene circumstances, only one Pokemon may participate in one roll.
Switching Pokemon does not cost a turn - simply use a different Pokemon’s power set on your next turn. Pokemon may not be switched during a Reaction roll.
Players may replace a Pokemon on-hand with a new Pokemon for a cost of 5xp.
Each Pokemon must have a Limit based on its type. All Types will be weak to at least two other types. Players may choose to give their Pokemon multiple Types, as well as more than two disadvantages per Type. As per Marvel Heroic rules, players gain one Plot Point every time their Limit is invoked.
* Note that you can have a MAX of 6, but it will cost you 1xp each time you wanna switch out a poke-power set of your 2 (out of a total of 6).
** also note that your 3rd power set is for trainer-related shit. Like psychic powers or ace-training, etc
*** also note the most common way for you as a group to gain PP is to just shut down power sets (pokemon or your own abilities), This can range from excuses such as you've sent your friend on recon, he got lost, he's KOd, w/e
For each pokemon beyond your first, you gotta drop all relevant power sets for that pokemon.
Namely, your starter can be made as varied as you like, maybe limit it's sets to 1d10, 1d8, and any number of d6s as appropriate.
Any ADDITIONAL mons can have 3 sets, than 2, than 1. Lets try to avoid starting with 4 poke-friends
Also keep in mind the 3 types of damage (mental, physical, emotional) are specifically for your trainer, but can be ruled as "shared" among you and your allies (pokemon). So if you hit the max on physical and would be KO'd from the scene, you can always just rule your pokefriends are out of commission and you dont think you can handle that giant fire-breathing lizard alone. So you surrender
TIPS
Oh, as a note, I'd advise making your lowest-tier milestone something iconic you feel you can achieve frequently since the cost to just switch out your team of 2 (of 6) is 1xp each time and will run you a high cost if you're reckless. So you need a good means to keep recurring some income.
Not a lot to go off of, so I spent a lot of time flipping through webpages and the book looking for examples/guidance. I also could not for the life of me find a good character sheet so I ended up making my own because I do that kind of thing.
Character
(Pixel dice I used are recolors of the ones made by artist "DeviusQC" and can be found here.)
Whipped up a Hiker type of Trainer who would specialize in Ground, Rock, and Grass Types. Obviously the dice have been scaled down such that a d10 is more "impressive" than "godlike" and so on. We were also encouraged to give the Poke-powersets a shitload of SFX, which is why I have so many of them. Something about having a lot of PP to spend.
Overall I'm a little iffy about using MHR for Pokemon, but it was what the GM was using so I rolled with it. Could be that it flows really well in actual play but it's not looking like I'll get the opportunity to find out, unfortunately. Always fun to try and work pokemon into a new system and seeing what works and what doesn't, though.
However, I would have way fewer SFX and limits, and I would have more Specialities, because you get to add those into every pool, and choosing from two is dull.
Oh, and I wouldn't make Trainer a powerset - just Specialities and Distinctions. I would probably push Distinctions to be more descriptive and less catchphrasey. Your Trainer powerset would be a Distinction of 'Tough As Teak' and maybe 'Unbreakable Walking Stick'.
As they stand, your Distinctions are more like Fate Aspects, but the XP is more goals than the Distinctions should be.