It works like an assault rifle in any other game ever made instead of being laser accurate 100% of the time. It's fine.
I'm not sure how that has any relevance to his viability pre and post nerf.
He was a lot better when you could burst fire without taking an aim penalty.
Once they bring McCree's range back in a bit (assuming that's what they do), 76 will be more useful. He's still in a good place.
I was making a follow-up post to say there isn't much of a reason to pick Soldier with McCree in the game right now. If you have accuracy to hit within the reduced time window with 76 i'm relatively certain you would do far more damage with McCree at all distances.
You can still fire and reset extremely quickly, and he still has point accurate four-round bursts as far as I can tell.
"Extremely quickly" honestly seems pretty subjective. For the speed that heroes move at, I think the spread for mid-range needs to be tighter, especially when for the majority of other heroes specced to that range their damage output is far less of a hassle.
I mean, I would have thought that as the tutorial hero Soldier 76 would have been a spray-and-pray, stress free character. I'm not suggesting pre-fix levels of accuracy, but somewhere in between so I can reliably hit a Reaper at 30-40 meters
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Took about a month off. . .wow. I'm not really liking the changes especially the Symettra nerf. Like. Of all characters to nerf why are we looking at the support class, whose main damage/defense dies to one shot from ANYTHING? Also they had to have nerfed the speed debuff as well, because now people skate through the turrets like it's nothing.
Because she had the highest win rate in the game. Still does, in fact.
No, he's fine. Hitting the bursts is still what makes you a good 76, I haven't noticed any change
How can you be good at an inaccurate targeting reticle?
If you put that reticle right on somebody's face and let off 5 rounds, you're going to hit more shots than if the reticle wasn't on the hitbox. That hasn't changed.
The "nerf" just makes it so you can't run a macro and fire the entire clip without any spread.
No, he's fine. Hitting the bursts is still what makes you a good 76, I haven't noticed any change
How can you be good at an inaccurate targeting reticle?
If you put that reticle right on somebody's face and let off 5 rounds, you're going to hit more shots than if the reticle wasn't on the hitbox. That hasn't changed.
The "nerf" just makes it so you can't run a macro and fire the entire clip without any spread.
You don't need a macro to tap your left mouse button.
No, he's fine. Hitting the bursts is still what makes you a good 76, I haven't noticed any change
How can you be good at an inaccurate targeting reticle?
If you put that reticle right on somebody's face and let off 5 rounds, you're going to hit more shots than if the reticle wasn't on the hitbox. That hasn't changed.
The "nerf" just makes it so you can't run a macro and fire the entire clip without any spread.
You don't need a macro to tap your left mouse button.
You cannot tap your left mouse button fast enough to not lose shots without rendering it impossible to aim.
No, he's fine. Hitting the bursts is still what makes you a good 76, I haven't noticed any change
How can you be good at an inaccurate targeting reticle?
If you put that reticle right on somebody's face and let off 5 rounds, you're going to hit more shots than if the reticle wasn't on the hitbox. That hasn't changed.
The "nerf" just makes it so you can't run a macro and fire the entire clip without any spread.
You don't need a macro to tap your left mouse button.
You cannot tap your left mouse button fast enough to not lose shots without rendering it impossible to aim.
It's like. . .right there in the two videos I posted.
(edit: macros to limit his spread in close combat are definitely cheating. i'm not disagreeing with that.)
I think very few Soldier players actually knew how to abuse his recoil like that before, so for them it's a minimal nerf.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited July 2016
If that was all the fix was for, then I'm fine with it as long as they ease off on the maximum spread.
Like, the whole pinpoint accuracy was a bit excessive for Soldier 76 at launch since it meant despite the reduced damage at long range he could still suppress snipers and shit (not to mention his rockets) like that. Toning down the current maximum spread but keeping the spread rate would confine his best damage output to medium range while still restricting his overall pinpoint accuracy so that he would be outgunned at sniping distances.
As it stands, a whole bunch of his shots can miss simply due to a random spread pattern, especially against smaller or fast-moving enemies. One of the game's strengths is that players can reliably expect heroes' main attacks to land where they expect them to land. It's fine with McCree's and Hanzo's alt-fire since it's patently designed to engage enemies at close range (or suppress them at long distance), but it's Soldier 76's bread and butter.
If that was all the fix was for, then I'm fine with it as long as they ease off on the maximum spread.
Like, the whole pinpoint accuracy was a bit excessive for Soldier 76 at launch since it meant despite the reduced damage at long range he could still suppress snipers and shit (not to mention his rockets) like that. Toning down the current maximum spread but keeping the spread rate would confine his best damage output to medium range while still restricting his overall pinpoint accuracy so that he would be outgunned at sniping distances.
The fix didn't touch the max spread as far as I know?. The idea is you do short bursts at range, and when you're in someone's face you can just cut loose.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited July 2016
That's the thing. I think the maximum spread was excessive to begin with, but because the whole spread mechanic was bugged anyway we never actually hit maximum spread. You could hold down the fire button for as long as you want and it would basically open to a fraction of what it does now.
It was a bug that needed fixing, but I think it reveals something else that could use a bit of tweaking
That's the thing. I think the maximum spread was excessive to begin with, but because the whole spread mechanic was bugged anyway we never actually hit maximum spread. You could hold down the fire button for as long as you want and it would basically open to a fraction of what it does now.
It was a bug that needed fixing, but I think it reveals something else that could use a bit of tweaking
Pretty sure that's not true, It only reset when you stopped firing for at least a frame. If you held it down it spread just as much as it does now. The only way you would encounter the spread bug is if you were intentionally burst firing, and that's the part they fixed. Now you need to wait a bit longer on your burst fire to reset it, instead of it being instant. But no changes were made to the max spread if you just hold it down.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I guess it might have just been my playstyle then, because I distinctly remember whiffing heaps of my shots post-fix and wondering what the hell was going on since I'd never hit that sort of reticule bloom in the past.
Took about a month off. . .wow. I'm not really liking the changes especially the Symettra nerf. Like. Of all characters to nerf why are we looking at the support class, whose main damage/defense dies to one shot from ANYTHING? Also they had to have nerfed the speed debuff as well, because now people skate through the turrets like it's nothing.
Because she had the highest win rate in the game. Still does, in fact.
If that's the bar for nerfing then there are going to be nerfs every month. I would also put forth that that win rate is largely tied to defense where she is a beast (and rightly so). On most other maps, picking her is a pretty silly thing to do.
Seriously, this was a nerf noone asked for or thought was needed, especially when her ultimate is tied directly to the damage her turrets do. Just nonsense and really makes the character not fun to play.
Took about a month off. . .wow. I'm not really liking the changes especially the Symettra nerf. Like. Of all characters to nerf why are we looking at the support class, whose main damage/defense dies to one shot from ANYTHING? Also they had to have nerfed the speed debuff as well, because now people skate through the turrets like it's nothing.
Because she had the highest win rate in the game. Still does, in fact.
If that's the bar for nerfing then there are going to be nerfs every month. I would also put forth that that win rate is largely tied to defense where she is a beast (and rightly so). On most other maps, picking her is a pretty silly thing to do.
Seriously, this was a nerf noone asked for or thought was needed, especially when her ultimate is tied directly to the damage her turrets do. Just nonsense and really makes the character not fun to play.
Her turrets, which are her primary form of offense, got the 30% nerf that Tor got as well. I feel like also the speed debuff was also weakened.
She's still good in the sense that she's not completely worthless, but it's a nerf that just doesn't make a lot of sense. Nerfing Tor's turrets I can see as it was basically another player on the team, with autoaim. Sym's turrets have limited range, die in one hit from anything and really only wreck if you place them in a carwash (which most people don't do if they want to be good with her).
Took about a month off. . .wow. I'm not really liking the changes especially the Symettra nerf. Like. Of all characters to nerf why are we looking at the support class, whose main damage/defense dies to one shot from ANYTHING? Also they had to have nerfed the speed debuff as well, because now people skate through the turrets like it's nothing.
Because she had the highest win rate in the game. Still does, in fact.
If that's the bar for nerfing then there are going to be nerfs every month. I would also put forth that that win rate is largely tied to defense where she is a beast (and rightly so). On most other maps, picking her is a pretty silly thing to do.
Seriously, this was a nerf noone asked for or thought was needed, especially when her ultimate is tied directly to the damage her turrets do. Just nonsense and really makes the character not fun to play.
Her turrets, which are her primary form of offense, got the 30% nerf that Tor got as well. I feel like also the speed debuff was also weakened.
She's still good in the sense that she's not completely worthless, but it's a nerf that just doesn't make a lot of sense. Nerfing Tor's turrets I can see as it was basically another player on the team, with autoaim. Sym's turrets have limited range, die in one hit from anything and really only wreck if you place them in a carwash (which most people don't do if they want to be good with her).
The thing is whatever she's doing is leading to people winning with her, so by definition she's more than "not worthless." Maybe she feels weak to you and that's fine but if anyone's win rate goes above a certain level they're going to need to nudge them down one way or another.
I will say though that I think her high winrate is less that she's better than other characters and more that people VERY VERY seldomly pick her at inappropriate times, unlike most of the rest of the roster.
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When your team can attack very well but completely fails on defense or vice versa.
That feels awful. Because you're about to play 15 minutes of a game for a coin flip.
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Eventually I switched from Mercy to Genji in the last minute of the round, and got gold in eliminations and damage.
ahhhhhhhhhhhh
I had a Reaper that was up my ass when I called in my mech.
I did not know that my mech coming down could kill someone.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Nope. If you see an Edward anywhere it might be me though! Edward#12790 if you're on PC.
How can you be good at an inaccurate targeting reticle?
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I'm not sure how that has any relevance to his viability pre and post nerf.
He was a lot better when you could burst fire without taking an aim penalty.
I got a double kill off my D.Va ult, but one of the kills was pre-explosion because i jumped out and boosted it off a ledge onto a Hanzo's head.
Once they bring McCree's range back in a bit (assuming that's what they do), 76 will be more useful. He's still in a good place.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I was making a follow-up post to say there isn't much of a reason to pick Soldier with McCree in the game right now. If you have accuracy to hit within the reduced time window with 76 i'm relatively certain you would do far more damage with McCree at all distances.
losing the ability to fire like in the video definitely makes 76 a much less competitive pick.
I just finished mine a couple hours ago.
Got 44
I keep myself up by knowing it was 100% PUGs.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I landed at 62 on pug power. Still not sure how.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
So much for me feeling up.
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"Extremely quickly" honestly seems pretty subjective. For the speed that heroes move at, I think the spread for mid-range needs to be tighter, especially when for the majority of other heroes specced to that range their damage output is far less of a hassle.
I mean, I would have thought that as the tutorial hero Soldier 76 would have been a spray-and-pray, stress free character. I'm not suggesting pre-fix levels of accuracy, but somewhere in between so I can reliably hit a Reaper at 30-40 meters
Can't wait to have my dreams destroyed.
Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's hilarious.
Have you seen him? Now you have
Because she had the highest win rate in the game. Still does, in fact.
Steam: adamjnet
The "nerf" just makes it so you can't run a macro and fire the entire clip without any spread.
You don't need a macro to tap your left mouse button.
the difference is absolutely huge when firing at targets from long or medium range.
You cannot tap your left mouse button fast enough to not lose shots without rendering it impossible to aim.
It's like. . .right there in the two videos I posted.
(edit: macros to limit his spread in close combat are definitely cheating. i'm not disagreeing with that.)
Like, the whole pinpoint accuracy was a bit excessive for Soldier 76 at launch since it meant despite the reduced damage at long range he could still suppress snipers and shit (not to mention his rockets) like that. Toning down the current maximum spread but keeping the spread rate would confine his best damage output to medium range while still restricting his overall pinpoint accuracy so that he would be outgunned at sniping distances.
As it stands, a whole bunch of his shots can miss simply due to a random spread pattern, especially against smaller or fast-moving enemies. One of the game's strengths is that players can reliably expect heroes' main attacks to land where they expect them to land. It's fine with McCree's and Hanzo's alt-fire since it's patently designed to engage enemies at close range (or suppress them at long distance), but it's Soldier 76's bread and butter.
The fix didn't touch the max spread as far as I know?. The idea is you do short bursts at range, and when you're in someone's face you can just cut loose.
It was a bug that needed fixing, but I think it reveals something else that could use a bit of tweaking
Pretty sure that's not true, It only reset when you stopped firing for at least a frame. If you held it down it spread just as much as it does now. The only way you would encounter the spread bug is if you were intentionally burst firing, and that's the part they fixed. Now you need to wait a bit longer on your burst fire to reset it, instead of it being instant. But no changes were made to the max spread if you just hold it down.
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In any case, I think it just needs adjustment.
If that's the bar for nerfing then there are going to be nerfs every month. I would also put forth that that win rate is largely tied to defense where she is a beast (and rightly so). On most other maps, picking her is a pretty silly thing to do.
Seriously, this was a nerf noone asked for or thought was needed, especially when her ultimate is tied directly to the damage her turrets do. Just nonsense and really makes the character not fun to play.
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Her turrets, which are her primary form of offense, got the 30% nerf that Tor got as well. I feel like also the speed debuff was also weakened.
She's still good in the sense that she's not completely worthless, but it's a nerf that just doesn't make a lot of sense. Nerfing Tor's turrets I can see as it was basically another player on the team, with autoaim. Sym's turrets have limited range, die in one hit from anything and really only wreck if you place them in a carwash (which most people don't do if they want to be good with her).
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Oh, and I learned that defense matrix can shoot down McCree's Deadeye bullets. So that's fun.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
The thing is whatever she's doing is leading to people winning with her, so by definition she's more than "not worthless." Maybe she feels weak to you and that's fine but if anyone's win rate goes above a certain level they're going to need to nudge them down one way or another.
I will say though that I think her high winrate is less that she's better than other characters and more that people VERY VERY seldomly pick her at inappropriate times, unlike most of the rest of the roster.