Vote by Mail and extending voting to a week would be more effective than mandatory voting
Distinction: lowering barriers of poll access would improve the ability of poor/working people/minorities to get to the poll. It is also more realistic that this can be achieved legislatively (in another administration, with other state houses)
However it doesn't solve the issue of connecting votes as a conceptual mechanism for recording the preferences of the populace as a whole with the outcome that reasonably reflects that preference. The closest we can get to 100% vote participation, the more confidently we can say "the majority of Americans expressly want X" instead of "the majority of Americans who bothered to vote expressly want X, and the minority/plurality of non voters implicitly cast their lot in with the winner no matter who it was, so the majority of Americans want X"
Mandatory voting would require a change to the first amendment.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
That was the republicans plan this entire time, thus far at least, in a blatant attempt to get the black mans name off it and some proper non-foreigny name on it.
Vote by Mail and extending voting to a week would be more effective than mandatory voting
Distinction: lowering barriers of poll access would improve the ability of poor/working people/minorities to get to the poll. It is also more realistic that this can be achieved legislatively (in another administration, with other state houses)
However it doesn't solve the issue of connecting votes as a conceptual mechanism for recording the preferences of the populace as a whole with the outcome that reasonably reflects that preference. The closest we can get to 100% vote participation, the more confidently we can say "the majority of Americans expressly want X" instead of "the majority of Americans who bothered to vote expressly want X, and the minority/plurality of non voters implicitly cast their lot in with the winner no matter who it was, so the majority of Americans want X"
Mandatory voting would require a change to the first amendment.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
Vote by Mail and extending voting to a week would be more effective than mandatory voting
Distinction: lowering barriers of poll access would improve the ability of poor/working people/minorities to get to the poll. It is also more realistic that this can be achieved legislatively (in another administration, with other state houses)
However it doesn't solve the issue of connecting votes as a conceptual mechanism for recording the preferences of the populace as a whole with the outcome that reasonably reflects that preference. The closest we can get to 100% vote participation, the more confidently we can say "the majority of Americans expressly want X" instead of "the majority of Americans who bothered to vote expressly want X, and the minority/plurality of non voters implicitly cast their lot in with the winner no matter who it was, so the majority of Americans want X"
Mandatory voting would require a change to the first amendment.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
That was the republicans plan this entire time, thus far at least, in a blatant attempt to get the black mans name off it and some proper non-foreigny name on it.
I really hope you are right! Sadly I rather think they mean what they say when they say they want to repeal it and have no replacement.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
None. The ACA taxes rich people to give money to poor people so they can buy health insurance. They might keep the important bits but then basically eliminate subsidies and offer a 'copper' tier of catastrophic coverage that will bankrupt anyone who gets sick.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
None. The ACA taxes rich people to give money to poor people so they can buy health insurance. They might keep the important bits but then basically eliminate subsidies and offer a 'copper' tier of catastrophic coverage that will bankrupt anyone who gets sick.
Ohh right, I forgot. So they take away the parts that make it actually work, killing 35,000 extra people a year, so that 400 people can get a 2% increase in their income. Needs of the rich outweigh the needs of the many after all.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
Per SCOTUS, the individual mandate is a tax rather than an actual 'mandate' and so is viable as part of Reconciliation. If Republicans are that insane. Because eliminating that will destroy the nongroup market rather than just the ACA exchanges.
There is no limit to their insanity and evil. They will do it.
They keep signalling that they don't want to pull the rug out from anybody, and seem to want to continue the subsidies, at least for the next year, to achieve that, because otherwise millions could lose their coverage as early as July.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
None. The ACA taxes rich people to give money to poor people so they can buy health insurance. They might keep the important bits but then basically eliminate subsidies and offer a 'copper' tier of catastrophic coverage that will bankrupt anyone who gets sick.
Ohh right, I forgot. So they take away the parts that make it actually work, killing 35,000 extra people a year, so that 400 people can get a 2% increase in their income. Needs of the rich outweigh the needs of the many after all.
Per SCOTUS, the individual mandate is a tax rather than an actual 'mandate' and so is viable as part of Reconciliation. If Republicans are that insane. Because eliminating that will destroy the nongroup market rather than just the ACA exchanges.
There is no limit to their insanity and evil. They will do it.
They keep signalling that they don't want to pull the rug out from anybody, and seem to want to continue the subsidies, at least for the next year, to achieve that, because otherwise millions could lose their coverage as early as July.
Right, but unlike Republican Congressmen insurance companies actually understand how insurance works. If you promise things will be fine without actual law to back it up they won't submit plans for the 2018 year.
Per SCOTUS, the individual mandate is a tax rather than an actual 'mandate' and so is viable as part of Reconciliation. If Republicans are that insane. Because eliminating that will destroy the nongroup market rather than just the ACA exchanges.
There is no limit to their insanity and evil. They will do it.
They keep signalling that they don't want to pull the rug out from anybody, and seem to want to continue the subsidies, at least for the next year, to achieve that, because otherwise millions could lose their coverage as early as July.
I certainly hope so. Even though I have the very lowest opinion of Republicans I took it on faith that my plan would not be cancelled this year at least. Perhaps I was naive.
Where is that 35k/yr figure coming from anyway? I've been it thrown around in a few spots, but never with any citation to a study or anything on how that figure comes to be
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
If you're just going to be a nihilist, you've got no reason even to bring this up at all - go find a corner and stop discouraging people who want to fight.
SummaryJudgment on
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
If you're just going to be a nihilist, you've got no reason even to bring this up at all - go find a corner and stop discouraging people who want to fight.
To my understanding his statement was one suggesting a civil war so the complete opposite of suggesting we not fight.
Where is that 35k/yr figure coming from anyway? I've been it thrown around in a few spots, but never with any citation to a study or anything on how that figure comes to be
If you're just going to be a nihilist, you've got no reason even to bring this up at all - go find a corner and stop discouraging people who want to fight.
To my understanding his statement was one suggesting a civil war so the complete opposite of suggesting we not fight.
This is getting pretty fair afield of the thread topic, but I assumed that this was a continuation of Maya's nuclear war discussion yesterday.
Regardless of whether or not there's a nuclear war some indeterminate time in the future, I'm for helping people in the present. I don't want nuclear war to be an excuse as to why we shouldn't bother organizing right now.
I mean, it's possible that nuclear war won't happen, and then we'll have helped all those people for nothing I guess.
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
Still no ACA replacement plan, but GOP ads say it exists and is awesome
A GOP-affiliated group is spending more than $1.4 million to run digital and television advertisements that laud a Republican plan to replace the Affordable Care Act—despite the fact that the party has yet to present any such plan, Roll Call reports.
The ads have been launched by the American Action Network, a conservative advocacy group linked to House GOP leadership. These materials say the unidentified plan will create a health insurance system that has “more choices,” “better care,” and “lower costs” than the ACA. The ads began running Thursday and Friday in districts of vulnerable Republicans, GOP leaders, and “rank-and-file” Republicans from very conservative states.
[...]
AAN expects the ads will get 8.1 million views by the end of the month. See it for yourself below.
I think I get it. The perfect healthcare plan is the one that does not exist. The GOP healthcare plan does not exist, ergo the GOP health care plan is perfect.
Still no ACA replacement plan, but GOP ads say it exists and is awesome
A GOP-affiliated group is spending more than $1.4 million to run digital and television advertisements that laud a Republican plan to replace the Affordable Care Act—despite the fact that the party has yet to present any such plan, Roll Call reports.
The ads have been launched by the American Action Network, a conservative advocacy group linked to House GOP leadership. These materials say the unidentified plan will create a health insurance system that has “more choices,” “better care,” and “lower costs” than the ACA. The ads began running Thursday and Friday in districts of vulnerable Republicans, GOP leaders, and “rank-and-file” Republicans from very conservative states.
[...]
AAN expects the ads will get 8.1 million views by the end of the month. See it for yourself below.
I think I get it. The perfect healthcare plan plan is the one that does not exist. The GOP healthcare plan does not exist, ergo the GOP health care plan is perfect.
Vote by Mail and extending voting to a week would be more effective than mandatory voting
Distinction: lowering barriers of poll access would improve the ability of poor/working people/minorities to get to the poll. It is also more realistic that this can be achieved legislatively (in another administration, with other state houses)
However it doesn't solve the issue of connecting votes as a conceptual mechanism for recording the preferences of the populace as a whole with the outcome that reasonably reflects that preference. The closest we can get to 100% vote participation, the more confidently we can say "the majority of Americans expressly want X" instead of "the majority of Americans who bothered to vote expressly want X, and the minority/plurality of non voters implicitly cast their lot in with the winner no matter who it was, so the majority of Americans want X"
Mandatory voting would require a change to the first amendment.
What are the chances of them just repealing Obamacare and replacing it with Trumpcare (With exactly all the same stuff) then declaring it a victory?
As I've said before, I think it it would be a great idea to try to sell Trump on universal healthcare by pointing out that he would be immortalized in American history for doing so.
We know that House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wisc.) is desperate to repeal the Affordable Care Act. What he never has been able to explain adequately is why.
Oh, sure, Ryan has offered some rhetorical explanations. He says Obamacare is “collapsing.” That it’s in a “death spiral.” That it’s a “struggle” for Americans. He says a “much, much better system” could be put in its place.
Ryan made all these points, and more, during a town hall meeting Thursday evening aired by CNN. The hour-long session didn’t yield an explanation for Ryan’s haste to take action that could upend insurance coverage for more than 20 million Americans. It did underscore, however, that his description of and position on the law are based on misconceptions, misrepresentations and lies.
An audience member who credits Obamacare for saving his life calls him on wanting to repeal it without a plan to replace it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ph0pT5Myy8
Naturally his response involves lying his ass off with scare tactics.
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Morbid curiosity compels me to ask, has there been any Baneposting regarding the ACA repeal? Because that would be some first class poor-taste and the kind of people that partake in Baneposting would be all over it.
Crashing this healthcare with no survivors.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I'm going to laugh when that ad campaign fails. Sure there are plenty of stupid fuckers that will eat this shit up, but the GOP needs for X number of people that voted for them last year to eat this shit up and Y number of people that didn't vote or voted third party last year, to also believe the democrats are at fault. That simply isn't going to happen. There are going to be number of third party voters and non-voters that won't buy that shit and they will be pissed next election and are more likely to vote democrat. As for Republican voters, there are a number that didn't think that things would turn out that badly, that will be livid and they'll either stay home, vote democrat or maybe go third party. There is also the morbid reality that poor rural Republican voters were the primary beneficiaries of ACA and a few other government programs, that kept them alive and will like see a greater die off from Republican actions than high population areas will.
Honestly, if repeal does happen, which is looking likely, but who knows maybe not. I'd suggest that anyone who has the means, would be better off moving to a more urbanized area that can provide better support than rural areas. I think ACA helped with the logistic challenges that rural areas present. Once it goes, I don't see many charities wanted to step in. They could spend less on getting people to a place for treatment in a higher population area and have more left to actual treatments.
All that said, I'm wondering when you start seeing the insurance industry pushing back hard on this. Sure they don't like the ACA, but they've geared up to deal with it and it would cost too much to get a rid of it now. Plus, none of them are at all pleased with the current GOP plan of "we'll repeal it and then come up with something later." They hate that plan because it adds in a ton of uncertainty that will fuck them over and that would be on top of the disaster they'd have to face just from having to retool in a industry without ACA.
I'm going to laugh when that ad campaign fails. Sure there are plenty of stupid fuckers that will eat this shit up, but the GOP needs for X number of people that voted for them last year to eat this shit up and Y number of people that didn't vote or voted third party last year, to also believe the democrats are at fault. That simply isn't going to happen. There are going to be number of third party voters and non-voters that won't buy that shit and they will be pissed next election and are more likely to vote democrat. As for Republican voters, there are a number that didn't think that things would turn out that badly, that will be livid and they'll either stay home, vote democrat or maybe go third party. There is also the morbid reality that poor rural Republican voters were the primary beneficiaries of ACA and a few other government programs, that kept them alive and will like see a greater die off from Republican actions than high population areas will.
Honestly, if repeal does happen, which is looking likely, but who knows maybe not. I'd suggest that anyone who has the means, would be better off moving to a more urbanized area that can provide better support than rural areas. I think ACA helped with the logistic challenges that rural areas present. Once it goes, I don't see many charities wanted to step in. They could spend less on getting people to a place for treatment in a higher population area and have more left to actual treatments.
All that said, I'm wondering when you start seeing the insurance industry pushing back hard on this. Sure they don't like the ACA, but they've geared up to deal with it and it would cost too much to get a rid of it now. Plus, none of them are at all pleased with the current GOP plan of "we'll repeal it and then come up with something later." They hate that plan because it adds in a ton of uncertainty that will fuck them over and that would be on top of the disaster they'd have to face just from having to retool in a industry without ACA.
The interesting thing now is (I hope) we see who on the Republican side is a true believer, and who is still tethered to reality and has just been lying about everything always. Because from where I'm sitting, pulling the plug on the ACA without any replacement plan whatsoever will put an incredible amount of strain on the healthcare industry, since it just spent 8 years and millions of dollars converting TO the ACA healthcare system, to the point where I can realistically see how going this way will collapse the whole industry. So there must (or at least should) be Republicans somewhere who see the same thing as me.
Given that, anyone who is totally for getting rid of the ACA right now, no waiting, no replacement ready to go, must either:
1) Legitimately believe everything will be okay (Team Stupid)
2) Is indifferent to the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Team Evil)
3) Is actively seeking the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Complete Sociopath)
4) Knows there will be suffering, but is afraid to go against the Republican party (Coward)
5) Knows there will be suffering, but is trying to ride the anti-Obamacare wave to power (Opportunist)
I'm going to laugh when that ad campaign fails. Sure there are plenty of stupid fuckers that will eat this shit up, but the GOP needs for X number of people that voted for them last year to eat this shit up and Y number of people that didn't vote or voted third party last year, to also believe the democrats are at fault. That simply isn't going to happen. There are going to be number of third party voters and non-voters that won't buy that shit and they will be pissed next election and are more likely to vote democrat. As for Republican voters, there are a number that didn't think that things would turn out that badly, that will be livid and they'll either stay home, vote democrat or maybe go third party. There is also the morbid reality that poor rural Republican voters were the primary beneficiaries of ACA and a few other government programs, that kept them alive and will like see a greater die off from Republican actions than high population areas will.
Honestly, if repeal does happen, which is looking likely, but who knows maybe not. I'd suggest that anyone who has the means, would be better off moving to a more urbanized area that can provide better support than rural areas. I think ACA helped with the logistic challenges that rural areas present. Once it goes, I don't see many charities wanted to step in. They could spend less on getting people to a place for treatment in a higher population area and have more left to actual treatments.
All that said, I'm wondering when you start seeing the insurance industry pushing back hard on this. Sure they don't like the ACA, but they've geared up to deal with it and it would cost too much to get a rid of it now. Plus, none of them are at all pleased with the current GOP plan of "we'll repeal it and then come up with something later." They hate that plan because it adds in a ton of uncertainty that will fuck them over and that would be on top of the disaster they'd have to face just from having to retool in a industry without ACA.
The interesting thing now is (I hope) we see who on the Republican side is a true believer, and who is still tethered to reality and has just been lying about everything always. Because from where I'm sitting, pulling the plug on the ACA without any replacement plan whatsoever will put an incredible amount of strain on the healthcare industry, since it just spent 8 years and millions of dollars converting TO the ACA healthcare system, to the point where I can realistically see how going this way will collapse the whole industry. So there must (or at least should) be Republicans somewhere who see the same thing as me.
Given that, anyone who is totally for getting rid of the ACA right now, no waiting, no replacement ready to go, must either:
1) Legitimately believe everything will be okay (Team Stupid)
2) Is indifferent to the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Team Evil)
3) Is actively seeking the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Complete Sociopath)
4) Knows there will be suffering, but is afraid to go against the Republican party (Coward)
5) Knows there will be suffering, but is trying to ride the anti-Obamacare wave to power (Opportunist)
I'm going to laugh when that ad campaign fails. Sure there are plenty of stupid fuckers that will eat this shit up, but the GOP needs for X number of people that voted for them last year to eat this shit up and Y number of people that didn't vote or voted third party last year, to also believe the democrats are at fault. That simply isn't going to happen. There are going to be number of third party voters and non-voters that won't buy that shit and they will be pissed next election and are more likely to vote democrat. As for Republican voters, there are a number that didn't think that things would turn out that badly, that will be livid and they'll either stay home, vote democrat or maybe go third party. There is also the morbid reality that poor rural Republican voters were the primary beneficiaries of ACA and a few other government programs, that kept them alive and will like see a greater die off from Republican actions than high population areas will.
Honestly, if repeal does happen, which is looking likely, but who knows maybe not. I'd suggest that anyone who has the means, would be better off moving to a more urbanized area that can provide better support than rural areas. I think ACA helped with the logistic challenges that rural areas present. Once it goes, I don't see many charities wanted to step in. They could spend less on getting people to a place for treatment in a higher population area and have more left to actual treatments.
All that said, I'm wondering when you start seeing the insurance industry pushing back hard on this. Sure they don't like the ACA, but they've geared up to deal with it and it would cost too much to get a rid of it now. Plus, none of them are at all pleased with the current GOP plan of "we'll repeal it and then come up with something later." They hate that plan because it adds in a ton of uncertainty that will fuck them over and that would be on top of the disaster they'd have to face just from having to retool in a industry without ACA.
The interesting thing now is (I hope) we see who on the Republican side is a true believer, and who is still tethered to reality and has just been lying about everything always. Because from where I'm sitting, pulling the plug on the ACA without any replacement plan whatsoever will put an incredible amount of strain on the healthcare industry, since it just spent 8 years and millions of dollars converting TO the ACA healthcare system, to the point where I can realistically see how going this way will collapse the whole industry. So there must (or at least should) be Republicans somewhere who see the same thing as me.
Given that, anyone who is totally for getting rid of the ACA right now, no waiting, no replacement ready to go, must either:
1) Legitimately believe everything will be okay (Team Stupid)
2) Is indifferent to the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Team Evil)
3) Is actively seeking the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Complete Sociopath)
4) Knows there will be suffering, but is afraid to go against the Republican party (Coward)
5) Knows there will be suffering, but is trying to ride the anti-Obamacare wave to power (Opportunist)
Did I miss an option there?
I feel like even a "repeal and fuck you" option would have to come with billions in "restructuring" handouts to the insurance and health care industry, otherwise they're going to open up their checkbooks to make sure some politicians suffer as much as they're about to.
It's a brilliant law in its political applications: can't revert to the status quo ante without a whole shitton of important people being mad at you: you'd need to buy them off, and then the base is mad at you for spending taxpayer money for the purpose of them being allowed to be denied coverage.
I bet not a single one of Trumps supporters realizes that they are about to get fucked by the repeal.
Even better, after the fucking most of them will still not understand why and will blame others. "Agree" and "Awesome" do not even begin to describe my feelings about this.
I bet not a single one of Trumps supporters realizes that they are about to get fucked by the repeal.
Even better, after the fucking most of them will still not understand why and will blame others. "Agree" and "Awesome" do not even begin to describe my feelings about this.
:hydra:
It wouldn't be so bad if the Republicans had any sort of plan at all and laid it out. Beyond the obvious of "you don't have healthcare anymore now that's the plan, fuck you".
I think some of you are being way too pessimistic. The problem for the GOP is that there is no way for them to escape the consequences of repealing ACA or really getting rid of everything they don't like about it. As dumb and clueless as chunks of their base is on what ACA is, they do get the GOP controls both Congress and the White House. There is no way the GOP spins this as being faultless when those people get fucked over, well at least in a way where they dupe enough people. The best they could hope for is that they convince the most clueless parts of the base that both parties are to blame and that might not help them much, at that point those people are more likely to stay home or vote third party.
From what I'm hearing, they pretty much want to keep everything that everyone, who isn't fucking psycho, wants to keep. That shit cost moneys, which means they are going to have to keep stuff that people don't like, namely the penalty for not having insurance, not sure if that is scaling up or not (IIRC this is the least popular part of the bill). They can't get rid of subsidies and if they try racist approaches and they probably will, the courts will tell them to fuck off and if their are subsidies, then qualifications for those will apply equally to all (so they won't get to cut costs, but subsidizing whites out in the sticks). Like there are a few things that the GOP hates with bill, they could remove without hugely fucking shit up, it'll still fuck shit up, but only hitting those would be perceived as sucking off the rich (one being the small medical device tax IIRC).
I'm hoping the democrats hold the line and refuse to have any part in the repeal. Let the GOP own every shitty part of it. The GOP let them get full credit for ACA and while it had it's faults, there was a ton of good in it. The reality it seems, is that the current GOP is dominate by shit heads that are opposed to making healthcare more available. Then again these are the same assholes that constantly push for policy that fucks people over and then they blame those hurt by their polices as being at fault (they seem go out of their way to create problems, make existing ones worse and prevent solutions, so they can impugn the dignity of those hurt by their actions).
I think they are going to try to for the Dems hand when they repeal all the funding but none of the actual laws. Then they can point at the dumpster fire and say that if only the Dems had repealed the rest of it, we wouldn't be in this mess.
I think they are going to try to for the Dems hand when they repeal all the funding but none of the actual laws. Then they can point at the dumpster fire and say that if only the Dems had repealed the rest of it, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Yea, that's what I'm worried about. The GOP puts the country on a track to get severely fucked over, at which point the Democrats can either not play ball and let the country burn, or be the adults and compromise on something shitty and end up taking all of the blame.
Healthcare has had this coming for a long time, and they've known it since the 80's. There is no practical way to unring the bell on this one. The problem is, republicans at this point don't really care who it harms because it's one of the only motivators of their platform. Abortion, Guns and now Healthcare are really their only rallying issues, with a kind of fuck you minorities/women frosting on the cake.
Healthcare will not go back to "the good old days" because there really wasn't ever any, the industry has always been completely fucked up. It will just get demonstrably worse in every way for a while and that is frightening.
Edit: We can all thank Nixon by the way.
Edit2: One of my hopes is that the coming crisis untethers healthcare from employment entirely. It's not a reasonable model.
Still no ACA replacement plan, but GOP ads say it exists and is awesome
A GOP-affiliated group is spending more than $1.4 million to run digital and television advertisements that laud a Republican plan to replace the Affordable Care Act—despite the fact that the party has yet to present any such plan, Roll Call reports.
The ads have been launched by the American Action Network, a conservative advocacy group linked to House GOP leadership. These materials say the unidentified plan will create a health insurance system that has “more choices,” “better care,” and “lower costs” than the ACA. The ads began running Thursday and Friday in districts of vulnerable Republicans, GOP leaders, and “rank-and-file” Republicans from very conservative states.
[...]
AAN expects the ads will get 8.1 million views by the end of the month. See it for yourself below.
I think I get it. The perfect healthcare plan plan is the one that does not exist. The GOP healthcare plan does not exist, ergo the GOP health care plan is perfect.
Schrodinger's Insurance.
More like Anselm's and/or Ontological insurance.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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MaclayInsquequo Totus Es UnusHere and ThereRegistered Userregular
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That was the republicans plan this entire time, thus far at least, in a blatant attempt to get the black mans name off it and some proper non-foreigny name on it.
Surely they'd call it RepubliCare.
I really hope you are right! Sadly I rather think they mean what they say when they say they want to repeal it and have no replacement.
None. The ACA taxes rich people to give money to poor people so they can buy health insurance. They might keep the important bits but then basically eliminate subsidies and offer a 'copper' tier of catastrophic coverage that will bankrupt anyone who gets sick.
Ohh right, I forgot. So they take away the parts that make it actually work, killing 35,000 extra people a year, so that 400 people can get a 2% increase in their income. Needs of the rich outweigh the needs of the many after all.
They keep signalling that they don't want to pull the rug out from anybody, and seem to want to continue the subsidies, at least for the next year, to achieve that, because otherwise millions could lose their coverage as early as July.
Needs of the many dollars...
Right, but unlike Republican Congressmen insurance companies actually understand how insurance works. If you promise things will be fine without actual law to back it up they won't submit plans for the 2018 year.
I certainly hope so. Even though I have the very lowest opinion of Republicans I took it on faith that my plan would not be cancelled this year at least. Perhaps I was naive.
If you're just going to be a nihilist, you've got no reason even to bring this up at all - go find a corner and stop discouraging people who want to fight.
To my understanding his statement was one suggesting a civil war so the complete opposite of suggesting we not fight.
Applying the findings of a
study on the Massachusetts reforms to their mortality rate with the
Urban Institute's projection of impacts for partial repeal.
This is getting pretty fair afield of the thread topic, but I assumed that this was a continuation of Maya's nuclear war discussion yesterday.
Regardless of whether or not there's a nuclear war some indeterminate time in the future, I'm for helping people in the present. I don't want nuclear war to be an excuse as to why we shouldn't bother organizing right now.
I mean, it's possible that nuclear war won't happen, and then we'll have helped all those people for nothing I guess.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2017/01/gop-group-spending-1-4m-to-tout-aca-replacement-plan-that-may-not-exist/ I think I get it. The perfect healthcare plan is the one that does not exist. The GOP healthcare plan does not exist, ergo the GOP health care plan is perfect.
Schrodinger's Insurance.
As I've said before, I think it it would be a great idea to try to sell Trump on universal healthcare by pointing out that he would be immortalized in American history for doing so.
That might as well be a fucking ad for the ACA.
Don't worry, I'll just be over here scared that my daughter will one day not be insurable thanks to pre-existing conditions. Fuck you, GOP.
You get out ahead of the messaging, then when that plan fails to materialize, you blame the Democrats for why people are dying.
An audience member who credits Obamacare for saving his life calls him on wanting to repeal it without a plan to replace it.
Naturally his response involves lying his ass off with scare tactics.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Honestly, if repeal does happen, which is looking likely, but who knows maybe not. I'd suggest that anyone who has the means, would be better off moving to a more urbanized area that can provide better support than rural areas. I think ACA helped with the logistic challenges that rural areas present. Once it goes, I don't see many charities wanted to step in. They could spend less on getting people to a place for treatment in a higher population area and have more left to actual treatments.
All that said, I'm wondering when you start seeing the insurance industry pushing back hard on this. Sure they don't like the ACA, but they've geared up to deal with it and it would cost too much to get a rid of it now. Plus, none of them are at all pleased with the current GOP plan of "we'll repeal it and then come up with something later." They hate that plan because it adds in a ton of uncertainty that will fuck them over and that would be on top of the disaster they'd have to face just from having to retool in a industry without ACA.
The interesting thing now is (I hope) we see who on the Republican side is a true believer, and who is still tethered to reality and has just been lying about everything always. Because from where I'm sitting, pulling the plug on the ACA without any replacement plan whatsoever will put an incredible amount of strain on the healthcare industry, since it just spent 8 years and millions of dollars converting TO the ACA healthcare system, to the point where I can realistically see how going this way will collapse the whole industry. So there must (or at least should) be Republicans somewhere who see the same thing as me.
Given that, anyone who is totally for getting rid of the ACA right now, no waiting, no replacement ready to go, must either:
1) Legitimately believe everything will be okay (Team Stupid)
2) Is indifferent to the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Team Evil)
3) Is actively seeking the suffering that will result from an ACA repeal (Complete Sociopath)
4) Knows there will be suffering, but is afraid to go against the Republican party (Coward)
5) Knows there will be suffering, but is trying to ride the anti-Obamacare wave to power (Opportunist)
Did I miss an option there?
6) want to watch the world burn
I feel like even a "repeal and fuck you" option would have to come with billions in "restructuring" handouts to the insurance and health care industry, otherwise they're going to open up their checkbooks to make sure some politicians suffer as much as they're about to.
It's a brilliant law in its political applications: can't revert to the status quo ante without a whole shitton of important people being mad at you: you'd need to buy them off, and then the base is mad at you for spending taxpayer money for the purpose of them being allowed to be denied coverage.
Even better, after the fucking most of them will still not understand why and will blame others. "Agree" and "Awesome" do not even begin to describe my feelings about this.
No they do.
http://www.gopocalypse.org/dismayed-trump-voters-tweet-about-what-losing-aca-means-to-them/
They are not thrilled. Why they are surprised I cant tell you.
It wouldn't be so bad if the Republicans had any sort of plan at all and laid it out. Beyond the obvious of "you don't have healthcare anymore now that's the plan, fuck you".
From what I'm hearing, they pretty much want to keep everything that everyone, who isn't fucking psycho, wants to keep. That shit cost moneys, which means they are going to have to keep stuff that people don't like, namely the penalty for not having insurance, not sure if that is scaling up or not (IIRC this is the least popular part of the bill). They can't get rid of subsidies and if they try racist approaches and they probably will, the courts will tell them to fuck off and if their are subsidies, then qualifications for those will apply equally to all (so they won't get to cut costs, but subsidizing whites out in the sticks). Like there are a few things that the GOP hates with bill, they could remove without hugely fucking shit up, it'll still fuck shit up, but only hitting those would be perceived as sucking off the rich (one being the small medical device tax IIRC).
I'm hoping the democrats hold the line and refuse to have any part in the repeal. Let the GOP own every shitty part of it. The GOP let them get full credit for ACA and while it had it's faults, there was a ton of good in it. The reality it seems, is that the current GOP is dominate by shit heads that are opposed to making healthcare more available. Then again these are the same assholes that constantly push for policy that fucks people over and then they blame those hurt by their polices as being at fault (they seem go out of their way to create problems, make existing ones worse and prevent solutions, so they can impugn the dignity of those hurt by their actions).
Yea, that's what I'm worried about. The GOP puts the country on a track to get severely fucked over, at which point the Democrats can either not play ball and let the country burn, or be the adults and compromise on something shitty and end up taking all of the blame.
Healthcare will not go back to "the good old days" because there really wasn't ever any, the industry has always been completely fucked up. It will just get demonstrably worse in every way for a while and that is frightening.
Edit: We can all thank Nixon by the way.
Edit2: One of my hopes is that the coming crisis untethers healthcare from employment entirely. It's not a reasonable model.
...what happened next? Did somebody explain to him? I've been worrying about this all day
Steam: adamjnet
More like Anselm's and/or Ontological insurance.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
They apparently did. More or less.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.