They're not exactly tiny and I don't see how you can fit more physical force into a tiny Cam frame than you can into a T-888, theres a reason they all take on the skin of huge body-builder types.
ANd I did like him reactivating in the wall, it was a nice touch.
Since physical musculature would have little impact on robotic movement, I'm going to assume you didn't think that through very much.
If I put 300 pounds of muscle around a forklift, does it lift shit better? Its the lift that does the work, not the tissue around it.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
It sent him to hte basement of that building that would later be the location of that tower didn't it? Not to the place itself.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
maybe he just didn't want to play becuase the situation pissed him off
to the time travel thing: I think he was supposed to get there a bit earlier, so he could prepare for the assassination, not at the exact time, that would be silly
and to the "cameron can't be stronger" thing: of course she can. if she's, say a model 2-3 years newer, it's to be expected that she's probably stronger or smaller while at the same strength as older models, because her "muscles" are more modern or some shit :P
he has been putitng off the savior of humanity as much as he can, and seeing the violence and slaughter on the game brought him visons of what he is expecting. It seemed like the images on the TV wer bothering him at least.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
maybe he just didn't want to play becuase the situation pissed him off
to the time travel thing: I think he was supposed to get there a bit earlier, so he could prepare for the assassination, not at the exact time, that would be silly
and to the "cameron can't be stronger" thing: of course she can. if she's, say a model 2-3 years newer, it's to be expected that she's probably stronger or smaller while at the same strength as older models, because her "muscles" are more modern or some shit :P
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
maybe he just didn't want to play becuase the situation pissed him off
to the time travel thing: I think he was supposed to get there a bit earlier, so he could prepare for the assassination, not at the exact time, that would be silly
and to the "cameron can't be stronger" thing: of course she can. if she's, say a model 2-3 years newer, it's to be expected that she's probably stronger or smaller while at the same strength as older models, because her "muscles" are more modern or some shit :P
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
A computer from 1989 is a hell of a lot bigger than one from today. Does that make it faster?
The point is that the size of an object has little to no relation to its capability, particularly when speaking from a technological standpoint. I would have no problem believing that Cameron's model is simply better designed than an older version.
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
maybe he just didn't want to play becuase the situation pissed him off
to the time travel thing: I think he was supposed to get there a bit earlier, so he could prepare for the assassination, not at the exact time, that would be silly
and to the "cameron can't be stronger" thing: of course she can. if she's, say a model 2-3 years newer, it's to be expected that she's probably stronger or smaller while at the same strength as older models, because her "muscles" are more modern or some shit :P
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
A computer from 1989 is a hell of a lot bigger than one from today. Does that make it faster?
The point is that the size of an object has little to no relation to its capability, particularly when speaking from a technological standpoint. I would have no problem believing that Cameron's model is simply better designed than an older version.
No matter how well you design a car it isn't going to beat a construction plow. Even an old one.
Theres only so much you can do within a level of size. I can let it go if Cameron is made of a much rarer, durable material that allows her to survive levels of damage others can't, but she cannot be stronger than a T-888. Faster sure, but not stronger.
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
That's like saying a bigger engine from 50 years ago should put out more horse-power than a smaller engine now. The technology in Cameron is improved so there's no reason why she can't be more powerful even in a smaller frame.
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
Great episode. The one thing that bothered me was the idea that Skynet would sent a Terminator to the exact location and date of the assassination at a high profile event, forcing an unarmed naked Terminator to try to kill the governor with his bare hands in front of hundreds of witnesses and dozens of cameras. You can't rationalize, "Oh, he was wearing a bullet proof vest" if he's naked. Also, the implications that the time machine can specify a location.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
maybe he just didn't want to play becuase the situation pissed him off
to the time travel thing: I think he was supposed to get there a bit earlier, so he could prepare for the assassination, not at the exact time, that would be silly
and to the "cameron can't be stronger" thing: of course she can. if she's, say a model 2-3 years newer, it's to be expected that she's probably stronger or smaller while at the same strength as older models, because her "muscles" are more modern or some shit :P
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
A computer from 1989 is a hell of a lot bigger than one from today. Does that make it faster?
The point is that the size of an object has little to no relation to its capability, particularly when speaking from a technological standpoint. I would have no problem believing that Cameron's model is simply better designed than an older version.
No matter how well you design a car it isn't going to beat a construction plow. Even an old one.
Theres only so much you can do within a level of size. I can let it go if Cameron is made of a much rarer, durable material that allows her to survive levels of damage others can't, but she cannot be stronger than a T-888. Faster sure, but not stronger.
And that's idiotic. The size of the frame has NOTHING to do with the power of the servos and motors inside.
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
We're not talking centuries of difference here, its more like a decade of development. And there is only so much power you can get out of a device of a certain size. Combined with her personal size its just feasible that she can be that strong when T-888s are like walking tanks and so far shes been shown to be an infiltration unit.
If their bicep pistons or whatever are exactly the same design which we do not know, then the T-888s being bigger should equal more physical force.
the difference in size is much smaller than a car compared to a construction plow, and there has been no indication about how the mass differs, i.e. if her material has a higher density and thus allows for the same inertia to be used when punching.
plus, better motors
look at chimpanzees. they are smaller than humans, right?
but a chimpanzee can be up to 5 times stronger than a human
Guys, Cameron is stronger. She's a model that the T-888's aren't even aware of yet. So there.
If you want a physics explanation, the bones are basically third class levers, which means that force decreases over distance. Shorter distance means greater force.
Otherwise, better alloys, better power supply. Whatever it takes to make you happy, she has it.
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
We're not talking centuries of difference here, its more like a decade of development. And there is only so much power you can get out of a device of a certain size. Combined with her personal size its just feasible that she can be that strong when T-888s are like walking tanks and so far shes been shown to be an infiltration unit.
If their bicep pistons or whatever are exactly the same design which we do not know, then the T-888s being bigger should equal more physical force.
Come on man this is ridiculous. You're talking about robots from the future who are almost invincible and unimaginably strong. We have no idea what technology is used to make them but you postulate that a newer smaller model can't possibly be stronger than an older, larger one? Seriously?
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
We're not talking centuries of difference here, its more like a decade of development. And there is only so much power you can get out of a device of a certain size. Combined with her personal size its just feasible that she can be that strong when T-888s are like walking tanks and so far shes been shown to be an infiltration unit.
If their bicep pistons or whatever are exactly the same design which we do not know, then the T-888s being bigger should equal more physical force.
And the fact that we DON'T know that makes the argument invalid. Glad we agree.
On the progress front, hell man, look at T2. The T1000 and T800 models were made within a similar time frame. Are you honestly trying to say that the T1000's aren't obviously superior based on any objective criteria you would want to use? My iPhone 3G was made a year or so ago, and it can do a hell of a lot more than my Nokia phone from 5 years ago could. Its smaller too. Imagine that.
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
Have you seen T3? Not that I'd recommend it otherwise but the female T-X wasn't as visually imposing as the other Terminators yet she was designed to take them down. Given that Cameron was sent back to protect John from Terminators of various types, it makes sense they'd send back one capable of doing so even if she doesn't look like it. Especially if she doesn't look like it actually.
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
We're not talking centuries of difference here, its more like a decade of development. And there is only so much power you can get out of a device of a certain size. Combined with her personal size its just feasible that she can be that strong when T-888s are like walking tanks and so far shes been shown to be an infiltration unit.
If their bicep pistons or whatever are exactly the same design which we do not know, then the T-888s being bigger should equal more physical force.
Come on man this is ridiculous. You're talking about robots from the future who are almost invincible and unimaginably strong. We have no idea what technology is used to make them but you postulate that a newer smaller model can't possibly be stronger than an older, larger one? Seriously?
Gee, its a good thing we're in a sub-forum called DEBATE AND DISCOURSE huh? When you say older, we're literally talking about months, maybe years, not decades. Its not a huge deal it was just a discussion topic.
In one demostration shown on the tv show Champions of the Wild, Kanzi was shown playing the arcade game Pac-Man and understanding how to beat it.
Also, to the show: I think you also have to think about the fact that she probably picked up a few tricks against other terminators (probably especially models older than her) when the humans reprogrammed her
Yes, the forum is called Debate and Discourse. That kinda means that if your position in the debate is stupid, you can't be upset for people saying such.
In one demostration shown on the tv show Champions of the Wild, Kanzi was shown playing the arcade game Pac-Man and understanding how to beat it.
Also, to the show: I think you also have to think about the fact that she probably picked up a few tricks against other terminators (probably especially models older than her) when the humans reprogrammed her
Do I understand this correctly to say that a chimp successfully played Pac-man and understood it?
You're comparing computers that output processing power to robots that output brute force. Yes, it's helpful to be bigger to achieve greater brute force.
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
We're not talking centuries of difference here, its more like a decade of development. And there is only so much power you can get out of a device of a certain size. Combined with her personal size its just feasible that she can be that strong when T-888s are like walking tanks and so far shes been shown to be an infiltration unit.
If their bicep pistons or whatever are exactly the same design which we do not know, then the T-888s being bigger should equal more physical force.
And the fact that we DON'T know that makes the argument invalid. Glad we agree.
On the progress front, hell man, look at T2. The T1000 and T800 models were made within a similar time frame. Are you honestly trying to say that the T1000's aren't obviously superior based on any objective criteria you would want to use? My iPhone 3G was made a year or so ago, and it can do a hell of a lot more than my Nokia phone from 5 years ago could. Its smaller too. Imagine that.
T-1000s defy any logic you can apply. They're functionally superior too, doesn't mean stronger, its just that hitting them doesn't have the desired effect. And your iPhone can't punch through walls, just had more shit installed then last time.
Fuck it guys, way to turn a hypothetical into a fucking annoyance.
the terminators aren't developed by humans though, skynet built them. I don't think 1 year or so is a short difference in these terms.
Anyways, I also really want to see what will happen next the turk. that cliffhanger left me all and now they're even milking the cliffhanger, those pricks
the terminators aren't developed by humans though, skynet built them. I don't think 1 year or so is a short difference in these terms.
Anyways, I also really want to see what will happen next the turk. that cliffhanger left me all and now they're even milking the cliffhanger, those pricks
Next week we'll be back to the main plot. John Henry, he's a knocking.
I'd go the efficiency route. It's easy to believe Cameron's smaller actuators have more energy potential than an 888 if they have a higher efficiency rating. For a straightforward, apples to apples comparison I'd look at sniper rifles. Each generation introduces smaller, lighter rifles that can generate higher muzzle velocity, accuracy and kinetic energy at longer distances. It's easy to say that a Remington 700 is tactically superior to a Springfield 1903 in every single attribute. Even with tanks; an M1 Abrams is lighter, faster, better armed and more heavily armored than a WWII era Tiger. Terminators are weapons systems too, right?
The show has been fairly consistent in Cameron's fighting ability; even to the point that her poorest performance was against Carl Greenway in the nuclear power plant. She was brutally walloped on the day when her chip damage seemed most severe (remember "I'm thinking" when she was mopping the floor?)
Also, on the subject of her CPU, is it self-repairing? It seems like for the most part, while everyone's still concerned about it, she's recovered her "sanity" ever since about the moment she choked Jody out. From the car bomb to that point, she seemed kind of... uneven.
Again, don't get mad at us because the discourse says your stance is wrong. As you correctly pointed out, that's what the forum is for.
And go back and watch T2 and try telling me that the T1000 wasn't physically stronger.
How is my stance wrong? You can't be on a 'winning' side when its based on unknown technology. At least I tried to make a logical response instead of "Its newer, it must just make more power". You're not so much pointing out the wrong as you are being a dick.
I'd go the efficiency route. It's easy to believe Cameron's smaller actuators have more energy potential than an 888 if they have a higher efficiency rating. For a straightforward, apples to apples comparison I'd look at sniper rifles. Each generation introduces smaller, lighter rifles that can generate higher muzzle velocity, accuracy and kinetic energy at longer distances. It's easy to say that a Remington 700 is tactically superior to a Springfield 1903 in every single attribute. Even with tanks; an M1 Abrams is lighter, faster, better armed and more heavily armored than a WWII era Tiger. Terminators are weapons systems too, right?
The show has been fairly consistent in Cameron's fighting ability; even to the point that her poorest performance was against Carl Greenway in the nuclear power plant. She was brutally walloped on the day when her chip damage seemed most severe (remember "I'm thinking" when she was mopping the floor?)
Also, on the subject of her CPU, is it self-repairing? It seems like for the most part, while everyone's still concerned about it, she's recovered her "sanity" ever since about the moment she choked Jody out. From the car bomb to that point, she seemed kind of... uneven.
Yes, it is, which is probably supposed to be the nature of a learning chip. But, she said something along the lines of a ticking bomb inside her.
What she meant? Probably the other terminators going rogue, probably her old main objective being reactivated and ignored forcefully, probably her damaged chip.
Who knows?
Again, don't get mad at us because the discourse says your stance is wrong. As you correctly pointed out, that's what the forum is for.
And go back and watch T2 and try telling me that the T1000 wasn't physically stronger.
How is my stance wrong? You can't be on a 'winning' side when its based on unknown technology. At least I tried to make a logical response instead of "Its newer, it must just make more power". You're not so much pointing out the wrong as you are being a dick.
Congrats on winning that contest.
You're saying "She can't be stronger!", which is denying the possibility that she can be stronger.
He says "She can be!", which means she can be stronger, OR weaker
See the point?
I mean I know this whole robot from the future thing is implausible, but c'mon. The chick carries him up a flight of stairs, scopes out his tumors, calculates stellar trajectory using her eyeballs and constructs a convincing narrative about robbery and murder in the 1920s from nothing but old newspaper clippings and reels.
At the very least he should think she's a mutant or an alien.
I mean I know this whole robot from the future thing is implausible, but c'mon. The chick carries him up a flight of stairs, scopes out his tumors, calculates stellar trajectory using her eyeballs and constructs a convincing narrative about robbery and murder in the 1920s from nothing but old newspaper clippings and reels.
At the very least he should think she's a mutant or an alien.
You're saying "She can't be stronger!", which is denying the possibility that she can be stronger.
He says "She can be!", which means she can be stronger, OR weaker
See the point?
I'm not saying you're right OR wrong. I stated my opinion, you stated yours. The difference is you're getting angry that people disagree with the one you put forward.
I happen to be one of those people. In my opinion saying that the fact Cameron is smaller than an object makes it impossible for her to be stronger than that object doesn't make much sense. At all.
You're saying "She can't be stronger!", which is denying the possibility that she can be stronger.
He says "She can be!", which means she can be stronger, OR weaker
See the point?
I'm not saying you're right OR wrong. I stated my opinion, you stated yours. The difference is you're getting angry that people disagree with the one you put forward.
I happen to be one of those people. In my opinion saying that the fact Cameron is smaller than an object makes it impossible for her to be stronger than that object doesn't make much sense. At all.
I believe I got angry the first time you called me/my 'side' idiotic and/or stupid.
Cameron seems stronger than other models. Her being smaller is 100% irrelevant.
I heard an argument for insufficient difference in development time between models making it impossible for Cameron to be more advanced? We're talking about possibly the most intelligent consciousness to ever exist, a fucking genius who invents time travel. Its a fucking supercomputer.
Skynet could probably compute 100 new terminator models in 5 minutes of thought.
The largest point I would like to make, however, is Who the fuck cares.
OK, the only things we know about Terminators are from the movies and TV shows. In the TV show, she is stronger than larger Terminators. To me this logically means that she's more advanced and stronger than them despite her size.
You claim that she couldn't possibly be stronger because she's smaller, which would mean that the TV show made an error. ??
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Since physical musculature would have little impact on robotic movement, I'm going to assume you didn't think that through very much.
If I put 300 pounds of muscle around a forklift, does it lift shit better? Its the lift that does the work, not the tissue around it.
I love the idea of Cameron going into a library and collecting records the old fashioned way. I mean, do you ever once see her or Eric going on google or some other database? It's pretty refreshing. Also, was anyone else mislead into thinking that Eric was supposed to be an important figure in the future?
I like the idea of the business rival versus the T-888. Mainly because it shows a parallel rivalry, both men with indomitable spirits. The rival could have avoided a lot of conflict by simply selling out the building, but refused for the sake of his son. And so he was driven out of business because of it.
Anyone want to explain to me why John sucked at GOW2? Was it purely because he was distracted, or is there something inherent in the game itself?
I don't think that the blood dude was doing star co-ordinates. If that was the goal, he would have just written down the name of the building, or the governor. However, it's just there to show the three-dots as a recurring motif.
It sent him to hte basement of that building that would later be the location of that tower didn't it? Not to the place itself.
to the time travel thing: I think he was supposed to get there a bit earlier, so he could prepare for the assassination, not at the exact time, that would be silly
and to the "cameron can't be stronger" thing: of course she can. if she's, say a model 2-3 years newer, it's to be expected that she's probably stronger or smaller while at the same strength as older models, because her "muscles" are more modern or some shit :P
I just think that the bigger frames and bigger components allow the T-888 to output a lot more brute force than a smaller but faster T-Cameron.
A computer from 1989 is a hell of a lot bigger than one from today. Does that make it faster?
The point is that the size of an object has little to no relation to its capability, particularly when speaking from a technological standpoint. I would have no problem believing that Cameron's model is simply better designed than an older version.
No matter how well you design a car it isn't going to beat a construction plow. Even an old one.
Theres only so much you can do within a level of size. I can let it go if Cameron is made of a much rarer, durable material that allows her to survive levels of damage others can't, but she cannot be stronger than a T-888. Faster sure, but not stronger.
That's like saying a bigger engine from 50 years ago should put out more horse-power than a smaller engine now. The technology in Cameron is improved so there's no reason why she can't be more powerful even in a smaller frame.
Edit: way too slow, nevermind
Fine. Take a jackhammer designed today and compare it to a jackhammer from the late 20's. Will it be able to output more force because its BIGGER, or because the materials used in construction and the inner workings of the device are superior?
I'm sorry, but size is irrelevant. Does a cannon have more destructive firepower than a Tomahawk missile? Its certainly bigger.
And that's idiotic. The size of the frame has NOTHING to do with the power of the servos and motors inside.
We're not talking centuries of difference here, its more like a decade of development. And there is only so much power you can get out of a device of a certain size. Combined with her personal size its just feasible that she can be that strong when T-888s are like walking tanks and so far shes been shown to be an infiltration unit.
If their bicep pistons or whatever are exactly the same design which we do not know, then the T-888s being bigger should equal more physical force.
plus, better motors
look at chimpanzees. they are smaller than humans, right?
but a chimpanzee can be up to 5 times stronger than a human
If you want a physics explanation, the bones are basically third class levers, which means that force decreases over distance. Shorter distance means greater force.
Otherwise, better alloys, better power supply. Whatever it takes to make you happy, she has it.
A really good comparison would be chimpanzees to humans, they're smaller and apparently much stronger than us. But, big chimpanzee > small chimpanzee.
Fuck. beaten.
Come on man this is ridiculous. You're talking about robots from the future who are almost invincible and unimaginably strong. We have no idea what technology is used to make them but you postulate that a newer smaller model can't possibly be stronger than an older, larger one? Seriously?
And the fact that we DON'T know that makes the argument invalid. Glad we agree.
On the progress front, hell man, look at T2. The T1000 and T800 models were made within a similar time frame. Are you honestly trying to say that the T1000's aren't obviously superior based on any objective criteria you would want to use? My iPhone 3G was made a year or so ago, and it can do a hell of a lot more than my Nokia phone from 5 years ago could. Its smaller too. Imagine that.
Gee, its a good thing we're in a sub-forum called DEBATE AND DISCOURSE huh? When you say older, we're literally talking about months, maybe years, not decades. Its not a huge deal it was just a discussion topic.
Also, to the show: I think you also have to think about the fact that she probably picked up a few tricks against other terminators (probably especially models older than her) when the humans reprogrammed her
Do I understand this correctly to say that a chimp successfully played Pac-man and understood it?
T-1000s defy any logic you can apply. They're functionally superior too, doesn't mean stronger, its just that hitting them doesn't have the desired effect. And your iPhone can't punch through walls, just had more shit installed then last time.
Fuck it guys, way to turn a hypothetical into a fucking annoyance.
Anyways, I also really want to see what will happen next the turk. that cliffhanger left me all and now they're even milking the cliffhanger, those pricks
And go back and watch T2 and try telling me that the T1000 wasn't physically stronger.
Next week we'll be back to the main plot. John Henry, he's a knocking.
The show has been fairly consistent in Cameron's fighting ability; even to the point that her poorest performance was against Carl Greenway in the nuclear power plant. She was brutally walloped on the day when her chip damage seemed most severe (remember "I'm thinking" when she was mopping the floor?)
Also, on the subject of her CPU, is it self-repairing? It seems like for the most part, while everyone's still concerned about it, she's recovered her "sanity" ever since about the moment she choked Jody out. From the car bomb to that point, she seemed kind of... uneven.
How is my stance wrong? You can't be on a 'winning' side when its based on unknown technology. At least I tried to make a logical response instead of "Its newer, it must just make more power". You're not so much pointing out the wrong as you are being a dick.
Congrats on winning that contest.
Yes, it is, which is probably supposed to be the nature of a learning chip. But, she said something along the lines of a ticking bomb inside her.
What she meant? Probably the other terminators going rogue, probably her old main objective being reactivated and ignored forcefully, probably her damaged chip.
Who knows?
You're saying "She can't be stronger!", which is denying the possibility that she can be stronger.
He says "She can be!", which means she can be stronger, OR weaker
See the point?
I mean I know this whole robot from the future thing is implausible, but c'mon. The chick carries him up a flight of stairs, scopes out his tumors, calculates stellar trajectory using her eyeballs and constructs a convincing narrative about robbery and murder in the 1920s from nothing but old newspaper clippings and reels.
At the very least he should think she's a mutant or an alien.
Maybe he hopes she's just a hot nerdy girl
naah, he's probably just at home, crying
I'm not saying you're right OR wrong. I stated my opinion, you stated yours. The difference is you're getting angry that people disagree with the one you put forward.
I happen to be one of those people. In my opinion saying that the fact Cameron is smaller than an object makes it impossible for her to be stronger than that object doesn't make much sense. At all.
I believe I got angry the first time you called me/my 'side' idiotic and/or stupid.
I heard an argument for insufficient difference in development time between models making it impossible for Cameron to be more advanced? We're talking about possibly the most intelligent consciousness to ever exist, a fucking genius who invents time travel. Its a fucking supercomputer.
Skynet could probably compute 100 new terminator models in 5 minutes of thought.
The largest point I would like to make, however, is Who the fuck cares.
You claim that she couldn't possibly be stronger because she's smaller, which would mean that the TV show made an error. ??