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Is being non-Christian technically a sin?

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  • GothicLargoGothicLargo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Improvolone wrote: »
    Am I wrong in recalling that in the Lutheran faith (and probably some pre-determination faiths such as Calvinism), that you're kind of already saved if-so-facto because God knows what's going to happen anyway?

    All-knowing doesn't imply that god gives a damn.

    It doesn't follow that just because god knows one of his model trains is going to crash that he will intervene to stop it even if it was his doing that it's going to crash in the first place.

    GothicLargo on
    atfc.jpg
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Right.
    So he knows who will go to heaven and who won't, arguably before they are even born. Which again can mean, you're damned or you're not and there is no changing that.

    Improvolone on
    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • GothicLargoGothicLargo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Improvolone wrote: »
    Right.
    So he knows who will go to heaven and who won't, arguably before they are even born. Which again can mean, you're damned or you're not and there is no changing that.

    Yep. Funny world isn't it?

    GothicLargo on
    atfc.jpg
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The concept of sin has got to be the worst idea in the history of bad ideas.

    Rohan on
    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Rohan wrote: »
    The concept of sin has got to be the worst idea in the history of bad ideas.

    I don't know, the N-Gage is a pretty good contender.
    talking-3.jpg

    Scroffus on
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I have to admit, you've got me there.

    Rohan on
    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    I'm a conservative evangelical pastor so I can fill you in our interpretation of the Bible--

    I immediately pulled up his expanded gamer card hoping beyond hope that I'd find Grand Theft Auto in there somewhere.

    I'll try not to take offense to that. And what if you did? I'm writing a long paper on Christian Ethics of Simulated Situations (Video Games) assuming an Aristotelian/Thomistic Virtue Ethic- and frankly I'm not sure yet where games like GTA will land. Don't assume you know what all Christians think about a topic because of what some (Jack Thompson) run around saying. Look at it this way: God doesn't have high standards to get into the "club." Accept the gift of grace given by his Son Jesus, through his death and resurrection. What that means is all kinds are in the club, but not all of 'em make the best spokesperson or representative. ;)

    You seem to have misunderstood -- I was checking out your gamercard precisely because I enjoy it when people don't fit precisely in neat little boxes because it illustrates that the box is a myth.

    SammyF on
  • widowsonwidowson Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Rohan wrote: »
    The concept of sin has got to be the worst idea in the history of bad ideas.

    How?

    Saying that things are bad and hurtful to others and you shouldn't do them doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.

    widowson on
    -I owe nothing to Women's Lib.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • widowsonwidowson Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    is there not some exception for the hypothetical people who've never been exposed to christianity (or the hypothetical dying infant?) Or is that all just feelgood stuff the clergy invented


    Google: "Unconquerable ignorance" and dig a little.

    widowson on
    -I owe nothing to Women's Lib.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • widowsonwidowson Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Kayne Red Robe wrote: »
    Passerbye wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    I think they're talking specifically about the Christian concept of sin.

    Ah, in that case there is the concept of the Virtuous Pagan. That said, if you've grown up in a Christian society or otherwise been exposed to Christianity beyond seeing a Christian from a distance, then yes, being a non-Christian is a sin, be you Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, or otherwise.

    I always found that concept pretty funny. I mean, on the one hand, it doesn't make sense to damn people for where they were born; on the other, it does open up the possibility of lowering the amount of people that get into heaven by spreading the "Word of the Lord," which I think runs sort of counter to what the faith is intending.


    I think it's because it might be considered hard to be a virtuous pagan since so many pagan religions ran coutner to the very notion of virtue. Some ancients were virtuous *in spite* of the example their gods demonstrated.

    Imagine asking "What would Zeus do?" to moral questions?

    Cheat on your wife with dozens of people and change into an eagle and kidnap a young boy to...um...yeah.

    (google Ganymede; mythology)

    widowson on
    -I owe nothing to Women's Lib.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • Sharp10rSharp10r Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    SammyF wrote: »
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    I'm a conservative evangelical pastor so I can fill you in our interpretation of the Bible--

    I immediately pulled up his expanded gamer card hoping beyond hope that I'd find Grand Theft Auto in there somewhere.

    I'll try not to take offense to that. And what if you did? I'm writing a long paper on Christian Ethics of Simulated Situations (Video Games) assuming an Aristotelian/Thomistic Virtue Ethic- and frankly I'm not sure yet where games like GTA will land. Don't assume you know what all Christians think about a topic because of what some (Jack Thompson) run around saying. Look at it this way: God doesn't have high standards to get into the "club." Accept the gift of grace given by his Son Jesus, through his death and resurrection. What that means is all kinds are in the club, but not all of 'em make the best spokesperson or representative. ;)

    You seem to have misunderstood -- I was checking out your gamercard precisely because I enjoy it when people don't fit precisely in neat little boxes because it illustrates that the box is a myth.
    :^: Awesome. Apologies for my bad assumption.

    OP: Here's another relevant verse:
    John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    1. Non-Christians are those who do not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Def.)
    2. not believing in the name of the only begotten Son of God is sin (See Jn 3:18)
    3. Therefore, Non Christians are sinning.
    & To put it in the language of the OP being a non-Christian is a sin of unbelief.

    There's a lot more to sin and salvation, including answers to the objections in this thread (those who've not heard, etc). This being an H/A Thread, Loren, I'll wait until you ask, to give you more insight into the answers to those objections.

    Sharp10r on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    widowson wrote: »
    Dyscord wrote: »
    is there not some exception for the hypothetical people who've never been exposed to christianity (or the hypothetical dying infant?) Or is that all just feelgood stuff the clergy invented


    Google: "Unconquerable ignorance" and dig a little.

    I did this but I guess I missed the point. Ethically I see how it's a relevant concept, but it didn't seem to interact with religion that much.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    widowson wrote: »
    Rohan wrote: »
    The concept of sin has got to be the worst idea in the history of bad ideas.

    How?

    Saying that things are bad and hurtful to others and you shouldn't do them doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.

    It doesn't matter; I shouldn't even be posting in this thread.

    Rohan on
    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
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