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Wheel of Time: Towers of Midnight

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Posts

  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I can see myself, years from now, re-reading the books with the new covers.

    "Jesus, this girl won't stop grabbing her braid or stop jabbering about men. But, damn, Mat looks good. Onward!"

    Apogee on
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The best part about the ebooks is that someone can throw some 'smooth skirt'/'tug braid' stats online.

    I want to see charts.

    Alegis on
  • BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Book 8 finished.

    I'm definitely enjoying Perrin's/Rand's POVs over Elayne's/Nynaeve's. No Mat was disapointing. Does he play a big part in book 9? And where the hell are the Ogier. They're one of the more interesting parts of the world but they only show up every other book and Lorial is a very minor character. I kinda want to see more time-travelling like Rhuidean.

    Also, I can't decide if Jordan is sexist or not. He writes like he always got turned down by women.

    Blurbl on
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Blurbl wrote: »
    No Mat was disapointing. Does he play a big part in book 9?

    He appears in Winter's Heart, but it's incredibly boring.

    Alegis on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Blurbl wrote: »
    Book 8 finished.

    I'm definitely enjoying Perrin's/Rand's POVs over Elayne's/Nynaeve's. No Mat was disapointing. Does he play a big part in book 9? And where the hell are the Ogier. They're one of the more interesting parts of the world but they only show up every other book and Lorial is a very minor character. I kinda want to see more time-travelling like Rhuidean.

    Also, I can't decide if Jordan is sexist or not. He writes like he always got turned down by women.

    Jordan is feminist. I think.

    The women in Wheel of Time are like men where before the feminist movement.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The Ogier just kind of vanish from later books. I wonder if they'll do anything before the end.

    captaink on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    captaink wrote: »
    The Ogier just kind of vanish from later books. I wonder if they'll do anything before the end.

    Um, did you miss the bunch of stuff about them in KoD that explicitly says they'll play a part in the end of the series?

    And hints are that it may be a very big part.

    shryke on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Man, those new covers are pretty shit hot. Especially as compared against the old.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    The Ogier just kind of vanish from later books. I wonder if they'll do anything before the end.

    Um, did you miss the bunch of stuff about them in KoD that explicitly says they'll play a part in the end of the series?

    And hints are that it may be a very big part.

    Being that it's been many years since I read it, I effectively did miss it.

    captaink on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?

    SparserLogic on
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.
    Ah, okay.

    My assumption up until now was that Aran'gar was the reborn Asmodean as she appeared at roughly the same time and Asmo was known for his lustiness. I had assumed his more active role was due to him being chastened by TDO for failing in his last life.

    I see the wiki is listing Aran'gar as Balthamel though, which seems just as likely I suppose. Although their only evidence appears to be in attitude as they don't have any proof listed.

    SparserLogic on
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.
    Ah, okay.

    My assumption up until now was that Aran'gar was the reborn Asmodean as she appeared at roughly the same time and Asmo was known for his lustiness. I had assumed his more active role was due to him being chastened by TDO for failing in his last life.

    I see the wiki is listing Aran'gar as Balthamel though, which seems just as likely I suppose. Although their only evidence appears to be in attitude as they don't have any proof listed.
    The main thing for me that proves that Asmo is not Aran'gar is that at one point one (after Asmo's death) one of the Forsaken explicitly mentions that the Dark One lets traitors die the final death, and doesn't bring them back.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.
    Ah, okay.

    My assumption up until now was that Aran'gar was the reborn Asmodean as she appeared at roughly the same time and Asmo was known for his lustiness. I had assumed his more active role was due to him being chastened by TDO for failing in his last life.

    I see the wiki is listing Aran'gar as Balthamel though, which seems just as likely I suppose. Although their only evidence appears to be in attitude as they don't have any proof listed.
    The main thing for me that proves that Asmo is not Aran'gar is that at one point one (after Asmo's death) one of the Forsaken explicitly mentions that the Dark One lets traitors die the final death, and doesn't bring them back.
    That sounds like a decent argument but I don't remember that occurring anywhere, can you give me specifics? I just reread the entire series so I'm pretty fresh on it all at the moment.

    Either way, even if Asmo is "dead" dead, it still seems so utterly irrelevant which one of the thousands of murderers in TDO's employ did the actual murdering.

    SparserLogic on
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.
    Ah, okay.

    My assumption up until now was that Aran'gar was the reborn Asmodean as she appeared at roughly the same time and Asmo was known for his lustiness. I had assumed his more active role was due to him being chastened by TDO for failing in his last life.

    I see the wiki is listing Aran'gar as Balthamel though, which seems just as likely I suppose. Although their only evidence appears to be in attitude as they don't have any proof listed.
    The main thing for me that proves that Asmo is not Aran'gar is that at one point one (after Asmo's death) one of the Forsaken explicitly mentions that the Dark One lets traitors die the final death, and doesn't bring them back.
    That sounds like a decent argument but I don't remember that occurring anywhere, can you give me specifics? I just reread the entire series so I'm pretty fresh on it all at the moment.

    Either way, even if Asmo is "dead" dead, it still seems so utterly irrelevant which one of the thousands of murderers in TDO's employ did the actual murdering.
    The WoT Wiki has a pretty comprehesive list of suspects, along with proof that he's dead. Along with the lore proof there is also that RJ said several times that Asmo is dead and not coming back.

    And you're right, it's not actually probably that big of a deal. I think it only became a big deal because of how the death was written and the fact that RJ seemed to think the identity of the killer should be obvious. It became a running joke in the email discussion group I belonged to that whenever a newbie joined and asked 'Who Killed Asmo?' we'd construct these long theories about how it was obvious that Bela was the killer.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
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  • galenbladegalenblade Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Huh. Didn't realize this, but there's already a release date for the next book: October 26.

    Plus there's a description and prelim cover art. Beware, both give away what'll probably be the main focus of the book.

    galenblade on
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  • Lady EriLady Eri Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh good, that's exactly what I wanted the book to be about.

    Lady Eri on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lady Eri wrote: »
    Oh good, that's exactly what I wanted the book to be about.

    Really? I was kinda hoping that would be the third book.

    But maybe i'm just too excited about the potential of an enlightened Rand complete with the channeling knowledge of who-knows-how-many past lives.

    Also, now that he's free of the "emo" I'd love to see him use his new knowledge to craft a tied-off hand out of Fire or Earth/Air. Something he can change the shape of at will to use as a weapon when desperate
    .

    SparserLogic on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.
    Ah, okay.

    My assumption up until now was that Aran'gar was the reborn Asmodean as she appeared at roughly the same time and Asmo was known for his lustiness. I had assumed his more active role was due to him being chastened by TDO for failing in his last life.

    I see the wiki is listing Aran'gar as Balthamel though, which seems just as likely I suppose. Although their only evidence appears to be in attitude as they don't have any proof listed.
    The main thing for me that proves that Asmo is not Aran'gar is that at one point one (after Asmo's death) one of the Forsaken explicitly mentions that the Dark One lets traitors die the final death, and doesn't bring them back.
    That sounds like a decent argument but I don't remember that occurring anywhere, can you give me specifics? I just reread the entire series so I'm pretty fresh on it all at the moment.

    Either way, even if Asmo is "dead" dead, it still seems so utterly irrelevant which one of the thousands of murderers in TDO's employ did the actual murdering.
    The DO confirms it in the prologue to LoC. Asmodean is dead, dead, dead.

    Also, Aran'gar is Balthamal. Balthamel was the lusty one, not Asmodean.

    shryke on
  • Lady EriLady Eri Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lady Eri wrote: »
    Oh good, that's exactly what I wanted the book to be about.

    Really? I was kinda hoping that would be the third book.

    But maybe i'm just too excited about the potential of an enlightened Rand complete with the channeling knowledge of who-knows-how-many past lives.

    Also, now that he's free of the "emo" I'd love to see him use his new knowledge to craft a tied-off hand out of Fire or Earth/Air. Something he can change the shape of at will to use as a weapon when desperate
    .

    That would be cool. Honestly the more time we have with rescued Moiraine the better.

    Lady Eri on
  • Who-PsydWho-Psyd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Alrigth so we are getting decent new Cover art on the E Books, why is the hardcover New books still horrible? o_O

    Who-Psyd on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The main reason I've always thought it was Slayer was that any other probable suspects would have bragged about it.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Who-Psyd wrote: »
    Alrigth so we are getting decent new Cover art on the E Books, why is the hardcover New books still horrible? o_O

    I'm wondering this too.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Tradition.

    Plus, it's pretty easy to spot the WoT section in the bookstore with all the similarly horrible covers.

    Reynolds on
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  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Wow, ya'll really love to hate on the characters. Elayne? lol. How can you be so offended by tiny little Elayne? Randomness.


    Also, re: the Slayer speculation:
    Ya'll are forgetting Hopper's quote from the wolf dream when Perrin was hunting Slayer near the Tower of Ghenjei. Something about "his evil being an ancient one" and Birgitte backs it up later by saying that his occurrence is a new one but his evil is old. Its very possible that Asmodean would be familiar with his powers from the AoL.

    My opinion is that Slayer works for the highest bidder (sowing chaos so staying on TDO's good side) and he visits the tower of Ghenjei because the Aelfinn/Elfinn pay well (possibly for wolf souls, being why he kills them so frequently)

    Anyway, why does it matter who killed Asmo's last body? He's back now so move on?
    He's back now? That's news to me. Last I checked he was still very much dead.
    Ah, okay.

    My assumption up until now was that Aran'gar was the reborn Asmodean as she appeared at roughly the same time and Asmo was known for his lustiness. I had assumed his more active role was due to him being chastened by TDO for failing in his last life.

    I see the wiki is listing Aran'gar as Balthamel though, which seems just as likely I suppose. Although their only evidence appears to be in attitude as they don't have any proof listed.
    The main thing for me that proves that Asmo is not Aran'gar is that at one point one (after Asmo's death) one of the Forsaken explicitly mentions that the Dark One lets traitors die the final death, and doesn't bring them back.
    That sounds like a decent argument but I don't remember that occurring anywhere, can you give me specifics? I just reread the entire series so I'm pretty fresh on it all at the moment.

    Either way, even if Asmo is "dead" dead, it still seems so utterly irrelevant which one of the thousands of murderers in TDO's employ did the actual murdering.
    The DO confirms it in the prologue to LoC. Asmodean is dead, dead, dead.

    Also, Aran'gar is Balthamal. Balthamel was the lusty one, not Asmodean.

    No, Asmo was very lusty too. He used that pretty darkfriend for sex constantly, lying to her all the while. It even says in the wiki that his namesake was the essence of lust.

    SparserLogic on
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I think most of the male Forsaken besides maybe Ishy enjoyed exercising their libido's.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
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  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I think most of the male Forsaken besides maybe Ishy enjoyed exercising their libido's.

    Thus my point that labeling Aran'gar as Balth just because she's a tranwhore.

    SparserLogic on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Batlthamel was famous for his sexual appetites though.

    shryke on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Batlthamel was famous for his sexual appetites though.

    And Aran'gar wasn't exactly bedding every guy in sight.


    Look, I'm perfectly willing to accept Aran as Balthy, I just think you need a little bit more than one non-specific throwaway TDO line and some speculation about a guy that died in the first book.

    SparserLogic on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Batlthamel was famous for his sexual appetites though.

    And Aran'gar wasn't exactly bedding every guy in sight.

    Actually, she was.

    Look, I'm perfectly willing to accept Aran as Balthy, I just think you need a little bit more than one non-specific throwaway TDO line and some speculation about a guy that died in the first book.

    There's quite a few throw-away lines. And a whole POV of his.

    Shit, it was clear right from the start in LOC if you knew what you paid attention.

    shryke on
  • Lady EriLady Eri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Aran'gar is Balthamuel. I thought everyone knew this. It's like guessing who Moridin is.

    Lady Eri on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Batlthamel was famous for his sexual appetites though.

    And Aran'gar wasn't exactly bedding every guy in sight.

    Actually, she was.

    Look, I'm perfectly willing to accept Aran as Balthy, I just think you need a little bit more than one non-specific throwaway TDO line and some speculation about a guy that died in the first book.

    There's quite a few throw-away lines. And a whole POV of his.

    Shit, it was clear right from the start in LOC if you knew what you paid attention.

    Well nobody has listed them then?

    I'm not looking to start a fight here but the only proof of this assumption that I've been presented at this point is one reference from the beginning of LOC about traitors. If there are more nobody has mentioned it.

    SparserLogic on
  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Batlthamel was famous for his sexual appetites though.

    And Aran'gar wasn't exactly bedding every guy in sight.

    Actually, she was.

    Look, I'm perfectly willing to accept Aran as Balthy, I just think you need a little bit more than one non-specific throwaway TDO line and some speculation about a guy that died in the first book.

    There's quite a few throw-away lines. And a whole POV of his.

    Shit, it was clear right from the start in LOC if you knew what you paid attention.

    Well nobody has listed them then?

    I'm not looking to start a fight here but the only proof of this assumption that I've been presented at this point is one reference from the beginning of LOC about traitors. If there are more nobody has mentioned it.

    http://steelypips.org/wotfaq/1_dark/1.2_forsaken2/1.2.1_gars.html
    Someone asked RJ about the 'gars, and mentioned that he'd seen theories that Lanfear was one of the 'gars. I was expecting a RAFO, but RJ gave the guy a disgusted look, and said that "No, Osan'gar and Aran'gar are Aginor and Balthamel." The guy said, "You're confirming this, and not hinting about it?" RJ replied (I'm paraphrasing here), "I'm confirming. After all, it's pretty obvious in the books that it's those two. After all, that's what Aginor thought was so funny; Balthamel, the lecher, was stuck in a female body." [Mike Lawson]

    Cantide on
  • Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Just to chime in with my ideas about Rand and the TP from TGS
    I understood that the True Power was the power of the DO. What it uses to change the weather and bind people, bring them back to life, etc. Either anybody who has the ability to channel can if they figure out how, or DO has to grant you the ability. It was the "new power" that Lanfear thought would be the new One Power and created the bore to access.

    Barring Moridin the forsaken all seem to fear it. I think it is like channeling the essence of the DO itself, you don't control the DO, it controls you. Moridin is either granted protection from the negative effects like the male forsaken are from the taint of the one power, or he is strong willed enough to function using it for a time.

    Rand channeling the true power is very foreboding. It may have been better to be enslaved than start down the slippery slope of being a conduit of the DO. After that incident his black aura seems worse and I seem to remember the wound in his side responding to the true power, but maybe not it's been a while since I have read TGS. I credited the true power for his darkening moods, loosing his regard for human life (the whole unraveling the compulsion and using the noble as a probe), his distancing himself from Min, and using baelfaire to nuke the whole castle.

    How he was able to channel it depends on whether you need to DO's permission or not. If not then he just did, remembering from LTT how to but not remembering the understanding of what it meant. (I remember LTT going crazy with doom in Rands head after the incident) Or by crossing the streams with Moridin he is partially linked and gains the ability that way. And so if Moridin has a DO "filter" to be able to use the TP exclusively, then Rand may as well.

    I had thought that perhaps the True Power may be the key to defeating the DO forever, turning his own power against himself. Like if you hit the DO with baelfire made from the true power, what would happen?

    Alkey42 on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Alkey42 wrote: »
    Just to chime in with my ideas about Rand and the TP from TGS
    I understood that the True Power was the power of the DO. What it uses to change the weather and bind people, bring them back to life, etc. Either anybody who has the ability to channel can if they figure out how, or DO has to grant you the ability. It was the "new power" that Lanfear thought would be the new One Power and created the bore to access.

    Barring Moridin the forsaken all seem to fear it. I think it is like channeling the essence of the DO itself, you don't control the DO, it controls you. Moridin is either granted protection from the negative effects like the male forsaken are from the taint of the one power, or he is strong willed enough to function using it for a time.

    Rand channeling the true power is very foreboding. It may have been better to be enslaved than start down the slippery slope of being a conduit of the DO. After that incident his black aura seems worse and I seem to remember the wound in his side responding to the true power, but maybe not it's been a while since I have read TGS. I credited the true power for his darkening moods, loosing his regard for human life (the whole unraveling the compulsion and using the noble as a probe), his distancing himself from Min, and using baelfaire to nuke the whole castle.

    How he was able to channel it depends on whether you need to DO's permission or not. If not then he just did, remembering from LTT how to but not remembering the understanding of what it meant. (I remember LTT going crazy with doom in Rands head after the incident) Or by crossing the streams with Moridin he is partially linked and gains the ability that way. And so if Moridin has a DO "filter" to be able to use the TP exclusively, then Rand may as well.

    I had thought that perhaps the True Power may be the key to defeating the DO forever, turning his own power against himself. Like if you hit the DO with baelfire made from the true power, what would happen?
    I think it's going to be used to make a new seal. In one of the books, I don't remember which, it was either in a book Min read, or an LTT memory (or both) that in order to seal the DO away, part of the Source had to touch him directly, which is what caused the taint. LTT supposedly thought this might happen going in. I think?

    So anyway, maybe if Rand creates some sort of wacky seal using the TP but done in such a way that the DO can't retract or unravel it, it might make a permanent seal without corrupting the Source again.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Alkey42 wrote: »
    Just to chime in with my ideas about Rand and the TP from TGS
    I understood that the True Power was the power of the DO. What it uses to change the weather and bind people, bring them back to life, etc. Either anybody who has the ability to channel can if they figure out how, or DO has to grant you the ability. It was the "new power" that Lanfear thought would be the new One Power and created the bore to access.

    Barring Moridin the forsaken all seem to fear it. I think it is like channeling the essence of the DO itself, you don't control the DO, it controls you. Moridin is either granted protection from the negative effects like the male forsaken are from the taint of the one power, or he is strong willed enough to function using it for a time.

    Rand channeling the true power is very foreboding. It may have been better to be enslaved than start down the slippery slope of being a conduit of the DO. After that incident his black aura seems worse and I seem to remember the wound in his side responding to the true power, but maybe not it's been a while since I have read TGS. I credited the true power for his darkening moods, loosing his regard for human life (the whole unraveling the compulsion and using the noble as a probe), his distancing himself from Min, and using baelfaire to nuke the whole castle.

    How he was able to channel it depends on whether you need to DO's permission or not. If not then he just did, remembering from LTT how to but not remembering the understanding of what it meant. (I remember LTT going crazy with doom in Rands head after the incident) Or by crossing the streams with Moridin he is partially linked and gains the ability that way. And so if Moridin has a DO "filter" to be able to use the TP exclusively, then Rand may as well.

    I had thought that perhaps the True Power may be the key to defeating the DO forever, turning his own power against himself. Like if you hit the DO with baelfire made from the true power, what would happen?
    I think it's going to be used to make a new seal. In one of the books, I don't remember which, it was either in a book Min read, or an LTT memory (or both) that in order to seal the DO away, part of the Source had to touch him directly, which is what caused the taint. LTT supposedly thought this might happen going in. I think?

    So anyway, maybe if Rand creates some sort of wacky seal using the TP but done in such a way that the DO can't retract or unravel it, it might make a permanent seal without corrupting the Source again.

    Adding to this:
    It was my assumption that TDO was deliberately letting Rand use the True Power as a fairly blatant attempt at corrupting him.

    He was, essentially, setting him up. Its very possible that the entire Graendal/collar/Moridin-link/TP draw was a huge set up to try and corrupt the soul that is the Dragon once and for all.

    It actually would have worked, I think, if he hadn't had the Choeden Dal to rely on as a balance to the pull of the TP.

    SparserLogic on
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Alkey42 wrote: »
    Just to chime in with my ideas about Rand and the TP from TGS
    I understood that the True Power was the power of the DO. What it uses to change the weather and bind people, bring them back to life, etc. Either anybody who has the ability to channel can if they figure out how, or DO has to grant you the ability. It was the "new power" that Lanfear thought would be the new One Power and created the bore to access.

    Barring Moridin the forsaken all seem to fear it. I think it is like channeling the essence of the DO itself, you don't control the DO, it controls you. Moridin is either granted protection from the negative effects like the male forsaken are from the taint of the one power, or he is strong willed enough to function using it for a time.

    Rand channeling the true power is very foreboding. It may have been better to be enslaved than start down the slippery slope of being a conduit of the DO. After that incident his black aura seems worse and I seem to remember the wound in his side responding to the true power, but maybe not it's been a while since I have read TGS. I credited the true power for his darkening moods, loosing his regard for human life (the whole unraveling the compulsion and using the noble as a probe), his distancing himself from Min, and using baelfaire to nuke the whole castle.

    How he was able to channel it depends on whether you need to DO's permission or not. If not then he just did, remembering from LTT how to but not remembering the understanding of what it meant. (I remember LTT going crazy with doom in Rands head after the incident) Or by crossing the streams with Moridin he is partially linked and gains the ability that way. And so if Moridin has a DO "filter" to be able to use the TP exclusively, then Rand may as well.

    I had thought that perhaps the True Power may be the key to defeating the DO forever, turning his own power against himself. Like if you hit the DO with baelfire made from the true power, what would happen?
    I think it's going to be used to make a new seal. In one of the books, I don't remember which, it was either in a book Min read, or an LTT memory (or both) that in order to seal the DO away, part of the Source had to touch him directly, which is what caused the taint. LTT supposedly thought this might happen going in. I think?

    So anyway, maybe if Rand creates some sort of wacky seal using the TP but done in such a way that the DO can't retract or unravel it, it might make a permanent seal without corrupting the Source again.
    Actually the point of that exchange was they can't patch the prison again since when it rolls back to the second age the prison must be whole so everyone can forget evil, break in and unleash hell once again though slightly differently. Rand has to do something that erases the hole already there, or change the structure of the cage or something so there is no hole or weak point left.

    Z0re on
  • Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    RE: Rand bending a knee to the Nine Moons:
    It seems obvious to me from Tuon's point of view during and after the meeting with Rand, that the pattern tried to force her to make a deal. But she was too stubborn and fought it off. I seem to remember her thinking she felt like somebody else, dead, spacey, ghostly afterward. I thought that this marked her demise. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills, she fought it, she will be cast out. I don't remember exactly but I think TGS ended with her either in serious jeopardy or foreshadowing of serious jeopardy. Seachan mainland is in civil war. She has a tenuous hold on the lands she has. And the Seachan are stubbornly superstitious but refuse to believe Trollocs and Mythradral are real.

    I think in the next book the pattern will hand Tuon her fate, and the Mat becomes the new crystal throne, and Rand will kneel to him, for a moment.

    Alkey42 on
  • Lady EriLady Eri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    That's not how sucession works with Seanchan...

    It's my understanding that the kneel to the crystal throne phrase was added to the Seanchan prophecies by Ishamael during one of his 50 year jaunts in our world in order to create chaos later.

    Lady Eri on
  • Alkey42Alkey42 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Alkey42 wrote: »
    Just to chime in with my ideas about Rand and the TP from TGS
    I understood that the True Power was the power of the DO. What it uses to change the weather and bind people, bring them back to life, etc. Either anybody who has the ability to channel can if they figure out how, or DO has to grant you the ability. It was the "new power" that Lanfear thought would be the new One Power and created the bore to access.

    Barring Moridin the forsaken all seem to fear it. I think it is like channeling the essence of the DO itself, you don't control the DO, it controls you. Moridin is either granted protection from the negative effects like the male forsaken are from the taint of the one power, or he is strong willed enough to function using it for a time.

    Rand channeling the true power is very foreboding. It may have been better to be enslaved than start down the slippery slope of being a conduit of the DO. After that incident his black aura seems worse and I seem to remember the wound in his side responding to the true power, but maybe not it's been a while since I have read TGS. I credited the true power for his darkening moods, loosing his regard for human life (the whole unraveling the compulsion and using the noble as a probe), his distancing himself from Min, and using baelfaire to nuke the whole castle.

    How he was able to channel it depends on whether you need to DO's permission or not. If not then he just did, remembering from LTT how to but not remembering the understanding of what it meant. (I remember LTT going crazy with doom in Rands head after the incident) Or by crossing the streams with Moridin he is partially linked and gains the ability that way. And so if Moridin has a DO "filter" to be able to use the TP exclusively, then Rand may as well.

    I had thought that perhaps the True Power may be the key to defeating the DO forever, turning his own power against himself. Like if you hit the DO with baelfire made from the true power, what would happen?
    I think it's going to be used to make a new seal. In one of the books, I don't remember which, it was either in a book Min read, or an LTT memory (or both) that in order to seal the DO away, part of the Source had to touch him directly, which is what caused the taint. LTT supposedly thought this might happen going in. I think?

    So anyway, maybe if Rand creates some sort of wacky seal using the TP but done in such a way that the DO can't retract or unravel it, it might make a permanent seal without corrupting the Source again.

    Adding to this:
    It was my assumption that TDO was deliberately letting Rand use the True Power as a fairly blatant attempt at corrupting him.

    He was, essentially, setting him up. Its very possible that the entire Graendal/collar/Moridin-link/TP draw was a huge set up to try and corrupt the soul that is the Dragon once and for all.

    It actually would have worked, I think, if he hadn't had the Choeden Dal to rely on as a balance to the pull of the TP.
    I had forgotten the Choeden Dal helped him resist. That was another reason it's so foreboding. I expect much struggling by Rand with the TP next book.

    Alkey42 on
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