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On the topic of [DLC]
Lucascraft
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
An interesting conversation came up among some friends the other day regarding the topic of DLC (or downloadable content for those who are bad at acronyms). People had some interesting opinions on the subject and I thought I'd post a thread here for the general discussion of this idea.
To kick it off, I'll pose a series of questions or observations which might or might not spark some conversation.
To kick it off, I'll pose a series of questions or observations which might or might not spark some conversation.
- How likely are you to purchase additional content for a game?
- What sort of content are you likely to buy? Single-player content? Multi-player maps? Extra characters? Additional skins, costumes, or other aesthetic changes?
- Would you personally consider a Skin or Costume pack for purchase if it offers nothing at all by way of new gameplay experience, but only changes the visual appearance of one or more characters?
- How do you feel about DLC versus Expansion Packs? Do you prefer micro-transactions which usually range in the $3-5 dollar range but are typically small, or would you prefer to plunk down $30 for a substantial amount of new content?
- How do you feel about "Day 1 DLC"?
- How do you feel about console exclusive DLC?
- Do you think promotions such as DLC codes being included in new games will hurt the used game market? Or do people who regularly participate in the used game cycle not care about DLC since they are typically buying cheaper/older games?
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When I heard that Microsoft had paid a shitload of money to Rockstar for exclusive content on GTA4, I went out and bought a 360 so I could have access to the extra gameplay that I would not otherwise be able to have on my PS3. I played GTA4 and loved it, but to this day I have not yet gotten either Lost and the Damned or Gay Tony.
Cutting out a fraction of the game and then putting it as a download code in the case is entirely designed to hurt the used game market. That is its only purpose. Forza 3 did this, and it's always annoying, because even if I bought the thing new, it drives down the resale value.
As to the rest, when the stuff is on the damn disk and they just locked it out to milk more money out of everyone (see: Soul Calibur IV, Beautiful Katamari, etc) it's annoying. When they're making more content for a loved game months after it comes out, it's not so bad.
Stuff I might consider buying, however, would be new game content. I will probably NEVER buy anything that is purely cosmetic. Ever.
As far as Expansion packs, well... I mean I guess you might say I'd prefer those over being fed small pieces over the course of time. But I'd only prefer an expansion pack if it were something substantial, something like a large cohesive package. I wouldn't be averse to buying an entire "expansion pack" as DLC though, like maybe the GTA expansions or something. But I've never done it as nothing so far has really appealed to me in that regard.
Day 1 DLC bothers me a bit, because it always seems like they have this game content that they're with holding in order to pay for later. But I guess as long as the primary game contains enough content by itself to justify its asking price I can live with D1 DLC. AS LONG AS the "purchase" option of the DLC doesn't pierce the gameplay experience in any way*.
As far as console exclusive DLC, I really don't care that much. I'd rather it be on all platforms but so far I haven't really cared. Not sure why. Maybe because I don't care much for DLC in general.
As far as the Used market, I think DLC typically helps new sales, I think that's a good thing in general for publishers.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Expansion packs, that add new content on at the end of the original game? Yes please.
As for "day 1 DLC", I don't give a crap if it hurts the used market. If a publisher wants to give me a carrot for paying them instead of GameStop, good for them and good for me.
Let's see:
1) It depends on the content as I will answer below.
2) If I am big into a multiplayer game (say Halo, CoD, or Gears) then I will more then likely buy map packs since it usually becomes hard to find a game that doesn't use them. Single player stuff depends on if I am still into the game or not. ie: Despite hearing good things about them, I have not bothered with GTA:IV DLC. Even though I did find GTA:IV fun, I just have to desire to return to it anytime soon.
3) Normally I would not, but I would be lying if I said I have never bought a Skin/Costume pack before. Damn impulse buys.
4) Once again, this sort of depends on the game to me and how long the DLC is and how long it takes to be released. If it is 5 or 6 months after the game's release and I no longer play it then I am unlikely to buy an hour or so long DLC adventure. I will, however, buy an expansion even a year or so after release.
5) I dislike Day 1 DLC.
6) Depends, is it exclusive to my console? If so, hell yeah! If not, then fuck that shit! :P
7) No opinion, never buy used games.
- How likely are you to purchase additional content for a game?
Somewhat likely, but most of the digital stuff I buy is XBLA games and the like. Most of the time, there are games I'd love to buy DLC for, but the games just don't have any.- What sort of content are you likely to buy? Single-player content? Multi-player maps? Extra characters? Additional skins, costumes, or other aesthetic changes?
New single player stuff and extra characters usually. I don't play most multiplayer-focused games frequently enough that new MP DLC would be worth it.- Would you personally consider a Skin or Costume pack for purchase if it offers nothing at all by way of new gameplay experience, but only changes the visual appearance of one or more characters?
No, especially since the prices are so high. I would drop $5 or so on Xbox Avatar clothes if they weren't so expensive.- How do you feel about DLC versus Expansion Packs? Do you prefer micro-transactions which usually range in the $3-5 dollar range but are typically small, or would you prefer to plunk down $30 for a substantial amount of new content?
Either is fine with me, if it's worth the price.- How do you feel about "Day 1 DLC"?
Lame.- How do you feel about console exclusive DLC?
Lame.- Do you think promotions such as DLC codes being included in new games will hurt the used game market? Or do people who regularly participate in the used game cycle not care about DLC since they are typically buying cheaper/older games?
I don't like this either, especially when only the people who preorder will ever have access to the DLC. I think Dragon Age came with DLC codes that people who bought used would have to pay for, and I don't really mind that so much.You smell like a survey
I don't care for day 1 DLC that you have to pay for but I support the free type that is used as a piracy deterrent.
If there is effort put into it and the price is right then I consider it the modern day expansion pack.
I don't shop at Gamestop. Why would the developer/publisher want to punish people who chose not to do business with shitty companies like Gamestop?
Day One DLC seems like a way to grub money and/or provide another access point for evil preordering demands. Not a fan.
DLC as whole I think is broad. You could easily make an expansion-sized DLC or just provide smaller chunks. Since we avoid the cost of producing CDs and boxes, DLC opens up smaller and cheaper content. Even 2-3 hours of gameplay is fine if priced adequately. Shit, Portal was that long and a serious contender for GotY by many.
Aesthetic stuff borders on being a micro transaction deal. In small doses, it is tolerable, but if I see a large shop for various armor dyes for my dog, then I better see the savings passed on to us.
2)Mostly singleplayer I suppose; but then again I don't often play multiplayer games online except for MMO's or Halo. I'm not against multiplayer content it's just less likely to get played by me. The map packs for Halo 3 are probably among the only multiplayer DLC I've paid for.
3) Possibly. If the costumes are included in content-driven DLC it's a given. But if the DLC is entirely costumes then it's pretty unlikely unless it is a game I know I'll play a lot.
4) I actually prefer the DLC model to be honest. I was a primarily PC gamer for ages prior to buying my 360 (my PS2 was primarily for SquareEnix games) so I'm very well versed in expansion packs and how good/bad they can be. It's less frustrating to drop $5-10 on DLC that only lasts a couple hours than it is to drop $30-40 on an expansion pack that lasts the same. And honestly, a lot of xpacks for games over the years that charge full xpack price range tend to not have any more content than a modern DLC pack. Sure, there are exceptions like for MMO's and typically every Blizzard xpack has contained as much content as the full games themselves but these are the exceptions; not the rule.
5) Questionable. I mean, the "polish" stage of a game cycle these days seems pretty short so it doesn't seem to be often true anymore to say "well we had these ideas after the game was finalized and went into polish" because with so many games getting day 1 patches even on consoles, it's pretty clear that the pre-gold QA period has become painfully short. The DA:O Day 1 DLC, man they mentioned that ages ago and I find it very questionable. Particularly, as folks have mentioned, if the content is already on the disk. That's horseshit. But I don't believe that happens that often.
6) Console exclusive as in, only consoles not PC or console specific like only 360 (and pc) and not ps3? I suppose the answer doesn't matter. I understand timed exclusives etc, but honestly if you made the game and made content for the game to sell, support your game on all platforms. Borderlands has DLC announced for PS3 and 360 but the PC version is still "undetermined" which is a load of shit. I paid for my game, support it. It's good they finally released a PC patch, but I think it would be silly to not release the DLC also for the PC when it's coming for the consoles. Yes, it's common knowledge that PC games don't sell as well as their console counterparts but it's a load to still make the game, make the money from the game but then fail to provide any ongoing support for the game via DLC or patches for one platform because it didn't sell as well so isn't a priority. If you're not going to support a platform don't release the game for that platform...at all.
7) Honestly I couldn't possibly care less about the used game market. I very rarely buy games used; and while I've been known to sell my games used on half.com it's not like it's a huge deal and the amount of money made back on those games has been nearly trivial in most cases. If EBgames gets their ass bit because of it I won't shed a tear. Yeah, I'm a consumer whore, but whatever; we all are given our hobby. So far "new" codes are also going to be available via paid DLC so the content is still available. If someone doesn't support the practice, don't buy the games that do it. Simple.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Its not the developer/publisher thats behind this. Its Gamestop.
Oh sure we will advertise your game, perhaps even put it on Game Informer... but what can you do for us?
You can't give the developer/publisher/marketing a free pass on this one.
Someone has to put the content into the game.
Someone has to make the deal with gamestop.
And it's not like the developer/publisher isn't benefiting too.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Well no, certainly. I was more intimating that it was Gamestop initiating this behavior. Its not like the developer/publisher wants to punish anyone, they just want more publicity.
I bought every Halo map pack, because I was having fun playing Halo multiplayer with the TBK group.
I bought every Fallout 3 DLC piece, because I had a blast playing Fallout 3.
In the case of "extra skins, new appearances" or whatever, that's when you start getting into tricky territory, and to use an example...
I fucking love Dead Space. I've bought the game, every comic to support the universe, and apparently, I was one of seven people who bought Dead Space: Extraction. At PAX, I lovingly detailed things to the EA booth vendors, and for my fanboyism, they gave me the Comicon Isaac Clarke reskin, where his armor is done up with the Unitologist symbols.
Dead Space offers pieces of DLC which essentially boil down to reskins - sure, there's minor gameplay adjustments attached to them (the flamethrower one, if I remember) increases your firing rate.
But... for all of my fanboyishness about Dead Space, I cannot bring myself to spend real money on dress up for my virtual, dead baby-stomping, engineer doll.
I suppose the better question would be "Whats your favorite kind of DLC?"
And the answer to that, is anything that expands or continues the gameplay experience that attracted you to the game to start.
The best DLC is the DLC that gives you a reason to play a game you love.
Nope. I'm not industry. Like I said, its a discussion I had with some friends and I wanted to see what other people thought. Those bullet points are just things that came up in our conversation. Maybe I'm too good at organizing my thoughts.
Yeah, damn those sneaky shills masquerading behind 3000 posts before they strike.
Pod people, duh.
B. Single player content is pretty much the only thing I'd ever spend money on. The only thing I can think of that ever tempted me was the epilogue for the new Prince of Persia. If I ever get around to Tomb Raider: Underworld, I'd consider its doppleganger addon. If I liked Fallout 3, I may have picked up some of its addons. Then again, I (more or less) liked (heavily modded) Oblivion and I never even picked up Shivering Isles. Outside of that, if I was into rhythm games, song packs are about the only other thing I can ever see myself investing in.
C. I am highly unlikely to download free costume packs for your average game. In fact, I don't often bother with costumes that are on the disk. I only worry about aesthetic addons for things that look horrid in the original game for one reason or another*, and that generally comes in the form of mods.
*
No offense, Bethesda.
D. Personally, I prefer expansion packs, but I understand the appeal of and necessity for small-scale DLC. What a developer should invest in is dependent upon the type of game and the content in question.
E. Day 1 DLC doesn't bother me any more than any other kind of DLC, which is to say that it doesn't bother me and I'll ignore it if I have no interest. In general, it does depend on how it's presented, though. I had pretty much the same reaction to the digital shill in Dragon Age that Tycho had. And it re-pisses me off every time I see that guy in my party camp with his perpetual quest arrow.
F. Console-exclusive DLC doesn't bother me that much, but I think it's an idiotic move on the part of the developer. Well, outside of the mounds of cash they're getting from a first party. This doesn't include content that can't be efficiently delivered to a platform. I understand why Valve can't support TF2 on the 360 in the way they do on Steam. I understand why Harmonix can't support Rock Band on the Wii in the way they do on the PS3/360.
G. I can't see new-copy-exclusive codes having that much of an effect on the used market. Or it shouldn't, at least. Cheap is cheap.
This. This pisses the shit out of me, even though I have yet to be interested in any retailer-specific content. It helps no one.
This... this isn't like being a cop is it? I mean, I'm not asking for myself. Totally not. I just mean that supposing someone was in market research, they wouldn't be accountable for neglecting to mention it, right?
...Right?
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Things like this turn me way off of DLC. Game modes that are on the retail disc but have to be paid to open (the article is about some game modes accessed via the command console of COD-MW2; completed working modes that are just not in the game yet). Ala SF4's costumes. ALA resident evil 5's multiplayer. ALso things like dragon age having Day one DLC.
Its all becoming mmo like in that they are trying to bleed you for as long as possible.
People need to get over this sense of entitlement to whatever content the developers managed to finish before the (arbitrary, often marketing-driven) release date. There's no connection between what's physically stored on the media and your right to use the product. But that's a different topic.
Holy shit. Yeah, really glad I didn't pick it up for PS3 because of how badly they gimped the PC version. This is just insult to injury if true.
No one said that about dragon age.
At all.
And there is a connection between what we pay for when we buy a game and what we have the right to play. There is no justifiable reason, aside from pure greed, that content contained on a disc, for a full price game, should be withheld until you pay more money...for what you already bought.
New content is fine. Charge away. Content you are literally holding in your hand, installed on your machine or you otherwise already purchased? Yeah, there's no excuse.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
You have a right to use what they sell you the right to use, and nothing more. The "omg greedy!" argument is just naive. Of course they're greedy. They're in the moneymaking business. Entire business models have been built around the fact that you don't own the data, one of which (shareware) went a long way towards building the nascent PC gaming industry in the 80s and 90s.
I'm not going to get into a big thing about this since it's not the point of the thread, if you want to start a new one I'll argue all day long about how you don't own the data on the disc.
Exclusive DLC is incredibly lame.
DLC that's free on the PS3 but costs money on the 360 is lame.
Overall I like DLC, even character skins and the like, but my price point for most of it is pretty low, and it often costs more than I want to pay. Stuff like Bring Down the Sky for Mass Effect I thought was good, but the DA:O DLC was too expensive, in my opinion (I use GameFly, so no codes for me).
Because, yeah, piercing the suspension of disbelief like that is a pretty horrible way to push DLC.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
If you do have it, he shows up and asks for help.
EDIT: Forgot to comment on topic :P
I'll buy DLC if, and only if, its something I want in the game. I never bother with extra hats or anything worthless, it has to be something awesome.
EG: Using Dragon Age: I'd totally buy a Golem origin that let me play the game as a golem. I would not pay for Green Dragon Armour (same as Red, only Green!!)
Yes. There's one at a location you travel to just to start that quest, which you can ignore, but there's one in your camp that will always have that stupid ! above his head letting you know he has a quest, then when you talk to him the option to start it has something like "(Premium Content) What can I help you with?" So not only will that ! be hovering in your camp for the whole game, but if you even talk to him once, you get an open quest in your quest journal basically telling you to buy the DLC.
Bioware was so close to being back on my good side with that game. It's otherwise fantastic.
edit: beat'd.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
With Dragon Age, I was mainly just cheesed at not having the party chest. If that "technology" exists (for lack of a better term) then it should have been in the damn game. I struggled with the inventory the entire time I played but was too stubborn to buy it.
Fallout 3 is one of my favorite games of all time. On some level I would jump at the chance to spend a few more hours in that world. But to date I still have not acquired any of the DLC. First there were all the bugs, then suddenly there were 5 of them and I didn't want to pay $50 for DLC. Then there was the GOTY edition. When that version is $20 used I'll prolly snatch it up. Hopefully by that point it will be a seamless, error-free experience.
What part of any of those quotes resembles anyone saying that Dragon Age doesn't have enough content to be worth retail price?
Nothing.
And I don't care if you think thinking that a company is greedy is naive.
Greed is greed whether you accept it as OK or not. And it's not something people have to just accept because it's SOP.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
A begrudged customer is still a customer. Its a cliche, but the saying "vote with your dollars" is true. If you pay for something, its a positive vote, whether you were mad about it or not. The only way to tell companies that day1 pay dlc is wrong is to not give them money.
You are mistaken. The guy does show up even if you don't have the Warden's Keep DLC. He has a '!' that is hollow and he tries to sell you the DLC. One of your dialogue options, at the end of the conversation, is something like (Buy Premium Content). Which then opens up the website where you can then purchase the DLC.
It is immersion breaking to say the least.