The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Anon is Confused
ExhaustedPharmacologist
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Now the situation begins - Mary Jane reads my texts and doesn't find them friendly but thinks
Gwen is really interested in me and doesn't trust her. I constantly argue that if she does,
she has to trust that I'll handle the situation appropriately and would end it if she
ever does try to come on to me (despite thinking otherwise). She asks her friends and they
agree with her, which infuriates me further. I try and cater to her needs and try not talking
to her about anything but school.
sidenote - part of the problem, apparently, was that we were being flirtatious in our texts. She only brought up one example about my demanding, jokingly, that Gwen become my subordinate and advocate
of how awesome I was to every Medical School I would apply to. I found it degrading/insulting, if anything, but Mary Jane found it flirtatious and inappropriate.
Flash forward to October - I was doing great in the program and basically took the suicidal
notion (or that's what my advisor said) of getting a full-time job working at a pharmacology
department lab at the Med School. It was stressful and tiring - coming to the apartment and
basically being completely unwilling to care about Mary Janes needs emotionally. I was still
talking to Gwen but occasionally the topic would divert to HER problems (relationship wise
which I actually enjoyed because of ability to completely predict guys behaviors and
their real intentions for being with her or how much of a liar they were). So, she finally
complains that we never even see each other and I tell her we could just get lunch. Not
thinking the situation would be bad, I casually tell Mary Jane I was going to have lunch
with Gwen. Mary Jane is NOT happy and doesn't want that to happen and instead wants to
think about it and says she still doesn't trust her. On the other side, one of Gwens'
friends started saying she didn't trust ME at about the same time. So, one night while
I'm studying me and Gwen divert to lunch and we both simultaneously start complaining about
each others side and how ridiculous they were acting. I mean, I did say some negative
things about my wife, which Gwen did too, but it was more or less due to my other problem
I have which I'll discuss later. We both decide not to have lunch and try to figure out what
the hell to do. I didn't erase the text and the following morning, Mary Jane returns
from her nightjob and reads the texts on my phone while I'm taking a shower. Long story -
short, it explodes into a fight. It ends 3 days later when I say if she's really
uncomfortable, I'll try to end the friendship with Gwen. But the more I thought about it or
tried ignoring her, the worse I felt because she was the only friend I had at this point.
I kept talking to her and Mary Jane found out again. I then literally told her I was exhausted
and finals were going on and I didn't care. I didn't find anything wrong with the situation,
she is overreacting, she should trust me and that I honestly couldn't see myself NOT being
friends with her. We basically decide to put the situation on hiatus until after finals.
Now here I am, we haven't talked about it but we've been arguing a lot because even though I'm
on break, I literally am too exhausted from working/school to care. I mean, I'm not saying
I don't think I'll make it, I can handle the studying, but my patience is not existant and
I don't care if I pay enough attention to Mary Jane. That's been the situation recently and
we haven't brought up Gwen. The problem? I've been having lunch/hanging out with her and
her friends and not telling her. Yes, I know it's wrong. Yes, I'm lying to Mary Jane. I've
dug myself a 15 foot hole with a cement truck above set on an autotimer to cement
myself in this impossible hole. I've come to the decision of not telling Mary Jane. Of
bringing up Gwen because she wanted to have lunch and wanted to know if I'd talked to Mary
Jane. It's not genius by any stretch of the imagination. But the next semester is going
be even more ridiculous and I do NOT want to have to deal with this drama revolving
around Gwen/Mary Jane and myself. I don't need it and need to know I can talk to
Gwen/hang out with her without Mary Jane having problems. I do NOT think Gwen has feelings
for me and I know I don't feel that way either. But what people have said have
freaked me out and sometimes tricked me into thinking otherwise. I have refused to go
and hang out with herself and friends at bars because I believe that something terrible
will happen. I don't think I'll do anything, but because so many of Mary Janes friends think
Gwen likes me, I only hang out/watch movies.
Also, I don't have any friends anymore. It's not that I'm pathetic, really, it's that I literally am studying/working everyday and all my friends are in Med School/Grad School or away in some other state that I don't have the time to go to. It annoys me and the fact that I found the possibility of a friend now
is a relief.
So what the fuck do I do? I know that it is going to be ridiculously difficult to
not talk/hang out with Gwen because I tried the exact same thing with my family when
they disapproved of myself and Mary Jane. I tried to cut them off but it didn't
work and I think the same situation is going to happen. Now I'm going to go back
to studying/working and I think it's only going to get worse. I need help
rationalizing/figuring out a way to discuss this. And no, I can't handcuff Gwen to a chair
and put a gun to her face and demand she tells me if she has feelings for me. (Although
I have contemplated using PhoneCreeper to download her texts to my phone and see
if she's made any indication of feelings for me, but that would be a last resort)
I have obviously left parts out because I don't know what else I need to put. Feel free to ask questions and I'll gladly answer.
Also, yes, I did do well this semester (3.7).
Gwen is really interested in me and doesn't trust her. I constantly argue that if she does,
she has to trust that I'll handle the situation appropriately and would end it if she
ever does try to come on to me (despite thinking otherwise). She asks her friends and they
agree with her, which infuriates me further. I try and cater to her needs and try not talking
to her about anything but school.
sidenote - part of the problem, apparently, was that we were being flirtatious in our texts. She only brought up one example about my demanding, jokingly, that Gwen become my subordinate and advocate
of how awesome I was to every Medical School I would apply to. I found it degrading/insulting, if anything, but Mary Jane found it flirtatious and inappropriate.
Flash forward to October - I was doing great in the program and basically took the suicidal
notion (or that's what my advisor said) of getting a full-time job working at a pharmacology
department lab at the Med School. It was stressful and tiring - coming to the apartment and
basically being completely unwilling to care about Mary Janes needs emotionally. I was still
talking to Gwen but occasionally the topic would divert to HER problems (relationship wise
which I actually enjoyed because of ability to completely predict guys behaviors and
their real intentions for being with her or how much of a liar they were). So, she finally
complains that we never even see each other and I tell her we could just get lunch. Not
thinking the situation would be bad, I casually tell Mary Jane I was going to have lunch
with Gwen. Mary Jane is NOT happy and doesn't want that to happen and instead wants to
think about it and says she still doesn't trust her. On the other side, one of Gwens'
friends started saying she didn't trust ME at about the same time. So, one night while
I'm studying me and Gwen divert to lunch and we both simultaneously start complaining about
each others side and how ridiculous they were acting. I mean, I did say some negative
things about my wife, which Gwen did too, but it was more or less due to my other problem
I have which I'll discuss later. We both decide not to have lunch and try to figure out what
the hell to do. I didn't erase the text and the following morning, Mary Jane returns
from her nightjob and reads the texts on my phone while I'm taking a shower. Long story -
short, it explodes into a fight. It ends 3 days later when I say if she's really
uncomfortable, I'll try to end the friendship with Gwen. But the more I thought about it or
tried ignoring her, the worse I felt because she was the only friend I had at this point.
I kept talking to her and Mary Jane found out again. I then literally told her I was exhausted
and finals were going on and I didn't care. I didn't find anything wrong with the situation,
she is overreacting, she should trust me and that I honestly couldn't see myself NOT being
friends with her. We basically decide to put the situation on hiatus until after finals.
Now here I am, we haven't talked about it but we've been arguing a lot because even though I'm
on break, I literally am too exhausted from working/school to care. I mean, I'm not saying
I don't think I'll make it, I can handle the studying, but my patience is not existant and
I don't care if I pay enough attention to Mary Jane. That's been the situation recently and
we haven't brought up Gwen. The problem? I've been having lunch/hanging out with her and
her friends and not telling her. Yes, I know it's wrong. Yes, I'm lying to Mary Jane. I've
dug myself a 15 foot hole with a cement truck above set on an autotimer to cement
myself in this impossible hole. I've come to the decision of not telling Mary Jane. Of
bringing up Gwen because she wanted to have lunch and wanted to know if I'd talked to Mary
Jane. It's not genius by any stretch of the imagination. But the next semester is going
be even more ridiculous and I do NOT want to have to deal with this drama revolving
around Gwen/Mary Jane and myself. I don't need it and need to know I can talk to
Gwen/hang out with her without Mary Jane having problems. I do NOT think Gwen has feelings
for me and I know I don't feel that way either. But what people have said have
freaked me out and sometimes tricked me into thinking otherwise. I have refused to go
and hang out with herself and friends at bars because I believe that something terrible
will happen. I don't think I'll do anything, but because so many of Mary Janes friends think
Gwen likes me, I only hang out/watch movies.
Also, I don't have any friends anymore. It's not that I'm pathetic, really, it's that I literally am studying/working everyday and all my friends are in Med School/Grad School or away in some other state that I don't have the time to go to. It annoys me and the fact that I found the possibility of a friend now
is a relief.
So what the fuck do I do? I know that it is going to be ridiculously difficult to
not talk/hang out with Gwen because I tried the exact same thing with my family when
they disapproved of myself and Mary Jane. I tried to cut them off but it didn't
work and I think the same situation is going to happen. Now I'm going to go back
to studying/working and I think it's only going to get worse. I need help
rationalizing/figuring out a way to discuss this. And no, I can't handcuff Gwen to a chair
and put a gun to her face and demand she tells me if she has feelings for me. (Although
I have contemplated using PhoneCreeper to download her texts to my phone and see
if she's made any indication of feelings for me, but that would be a last resort)
I have obviously left parts out because I don't know what else I need to put. Feel free to ask questions and I'll gladly answer.
Also, yes, I did do well this semester (3.7).
ExhaustedPharmacologist on
0
Posts
1) Mary Jane is your wife.
2) Gwen is your friend.
3) Mary Jane doesn't trust Gwen.
4) Mary Jane thinks Gwen likes you.
5) Mary Jane's friends don't help the situation by enforcing this view.
6) Gwen and you talk a lot because she's currently your only non-wife friend.
7) You have no friends due to school and work, understandable.
8) Mary Jane forbids you from seeing Gwen repeatedly.
9) You refuse, you see nothing wrong with it.
10) Mary Jane reads texts from Gwen on your phone (ie: snooping) and overreacts over something.
11) Arguement.
12) You promise not to see Gwen.
13) You see her anyways.
14) Mary Jane finds out, another arguement.
15) You promise again?
16) Mary Jane doesn't know now.
Okay, I would recommend NEVER finding out if Gwen has feelings for you if you love Mary Jane and still want to be with her. You don't need to know this and it might enforce your wife's feelings about what's going on.
Secondly, come clean, if Mary Jane finds out you're seeing Gwen (friendly terms) behind her back, things will just get worse.
Tell Mary Jane, again, that you aren't dumping your friends because she says so. Tell her, again, that she should trust you. Maybe try bringing up how controlling this is, compare it to how she'd feel if you told her not to see one of her friends.
On that note, are you happy with your wife? Geez, she sounds controlling to the max. Maybe you need to sort those issues out first.
You're married to mary jane? And talking bad about your wife to someone you've been flirty with? Whatever else you do, don't be that guy. If you're married, that "I do" means you have to work out any issues. You can divorce, separate, get an open marriage, wtf ever. But don't disrespect that person. You owe them at least that. And if that means you don't see gwen until it's resolved, that's what you do.
Trust him? dude...
On preview: You should look at that line for a long, long time and contemplate how you got to a place where illegally bugging someones phone and reading their messages sounds like a good idea.
Green - No, absolutely not. We agreed to pause it. Try and let me finish finals.
Blue - I agree completely. I only said it because that was the most insanely stupid idea I had to find out.
Orange - That's the general idea.
ALLEGEDLY flirty. Remember, the topics of discussion have only been school and her disastrous relationships with guys. I already apologized for that. I know it's wrong which is why we basically discussed it and how I was being irrational. I only complained about the controlling behavior I thought she was exhibiting and how I felt like she didn't trust that I could handle this situation.
Read above. It's not a good idea, I'm stating that's a last resort. Analagous to America dropping a nuclear bomb on Iraq to resolve that issue. It's utterly stupid.
That's exactly why I'm here. I said I do and I mean it. People complain to their friends about relationships ALL the time. Not necessarily out of hatred, but because they need to get it out. We've resolved every issue we've had in the past. I came here because I don't know what the next step is and how to handle this annoyingly emotional drama that I don't want to deal with. That and I have the worst time understanting how emotion is a proper response to a situation. The whole I feel this way as an opinion I need to respect and cannot argue otherwise annoys me to no end, despite how I KNOW it's what women do and I should deal with it. I am the socially discussive (don't ask) equivalent of a robot and get annoyed by emotions. I mean, we come to terms. I realize the predicament is largely due to my work/study load. Or I think it is. I'm just trying to see how the fuck I can resolve this without having to destroy a friendship I'd like to have.
The point is, you shouldn't even be thinking about doing something like that. It's SO not okay. How would your wife react? How would Gwen react? How would you deal with knowing something that you're not supposed to that you learned under those circumstances? Why would you even bring it up?
Don't even consider it.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Again, the consideration is exactly like I explained. It's not even something I want to do.
If push comes to shove, you should always choose your wife.
From what I can gather from your wall of text, you need to scale back your friendship with this friend at the very least. Your wife is more important.
Thank you
you also admit to neglecting your wife. man, big problem! why oh why are you investing time in a friendship with a woman that may like you when you can't even get up the balls and motivation to care for your wife as she deserves to be cared for? and you don't understand why your wife is upset at you over this girl. you say you are too tired to give a shit about your wife or her feelings and worries, but you have time to go behind your wife's back and see a friend.
tell gwen you need to spend all your spare energy working on your marriage and that you can't hang out for a while. talk to your wife, just in general and let her know you love her and care for her and will put more effort into making her happy than making a friend happy. why not bring your wife to meet gwen and become mutual friends if you really can see no way of living without gwen.
if you can't see your life without gwen, can you also not see your life without your wife? how has this not occurred to you?
you are married, that means something. it should mean enough to you that you don't let being exhausted get in the way of being happy together, or being there for her.
You have lied directly to your wife about your relationship with another woman.
You are planning on doing so again.
You are, by any definition, being dishonest and proving that she should not trust you.
Either make an appointment for couples therapy now, or leave the girl so she can find someone that will treat her right.
Oh slow typing...
On preview. good.
Tell mary jane you are going to tell gwen this. Then tell gwen this.
I agree
that will literally not happen and it's come to the reality that it's never going to which is why I'm leaning to a cutoff
It's the illogical/irrational side of me that's doing this and I am basically seeing the wrong here. The resolve is what I'm looking for. I never said I was right in what I did
Easier said than done.
I suppose it's a resolve. The only issue at this point is my idiotic ability to let the emotional issue linger.
i've been with my guy for over 5 years now, and sometimes i have to sit there and remind myself to not get in a rut, or to take out stress on him because he is there and familiar. it is important to remember that your partner is someone special to you, more important than everyone else.
I still believe it to this day. I suppose the dilemma is such that I don't know how to resolve this "friendship", which I quote because it's not necessarily a friendship but a disastrious virus plaguing this marriage at this point. I know the issues are largely my fault, but I refuse to let them actually end the marriage. I committed to this relationship millions of times and strived to resolve whatever issue (for the past 5 years). I didn't think it'd get this bad, but I realize that I wanted to make sure the best decision IS ending the friendship.
I mean, it sucks, naturally. I let the exhaustion get the better of me and not care about how I am acting. I told myself I'd never let this stress/exhaustion get to me because I know that Med School will bring that on as well. I hate to see myself become that statistic (marriage failure in med school), but I also am exhausted that I haven't been watching my actions, obviously.
- edit - I mean, I KNOW it's the school/work that's the cause because I was like this during my senior year in college while studying for my MCAT (not the friend issue but my selfish behavior)
- edit - I also appreciate the patience
Not sure if I disagree or agree with this because I don't quite understand it so I'll just quote it and explain what I believe you should not do.
You shouldn't be cutting off friendships or cutting back on friendships because your wife says so unless said person is abusive to you, the people you love or something else of the similar tangent (ie: if person is bad)
It is bad that you've lied to your wife which is why you need to come clean about the situation.
I think people need to step back and assume that if this was a male friend this wouldn't be as serious. Most of the replies would probably be around the lines.
"Come clean, work things out with your wife, don't cut off your friend just because she says so."
Which, in short, is what I believe is the best resolution here.
the problem isn't having friends, it is that he is letting having this friend take away from his relationship with his wife, and that makes her jealous and angry, which makes him defensive and sneaky.
so he needs to take a break from seeing gwen until he fixes things with his wife and gets his stress levels down.
edit- also, your spouse should be more important to you than anyone else, you should always choose your wife. this doesn't mean that you can't have connections with anyone else, but she comes first, and gets first dibs on your spare time if it is extremely limited as the OP's is. and if you don't have the energy to spend on your wife, you shouldn't have the energy to spend on a friend. (this is less to you OP than to sipex)
What I'm trying to say is that no he shouldn't have to give up a friendship normally. However, when push comes to shove, one should always choose their spouse over a friendship. You are choosing to be committed and love that person for the rest of your life. They are, for lack of better words, the most important person in your life. And in this situation his wife has every reason to want him to cut off contact because of his actions.
It would most certainly be different if his friend were a male. Him being close friends with a female isn't necessarily a bad thing. But forming certain emotional bonds with her by going to her about his marriage problems IS a bad thing. There is such a thing as emotionally cheating on your spouse.
This basically.
Although the amount of time he spends with his friend sounds like he's not cutting out his wife to see her unless his wife is also contesting for the same time. I may be misunderstanding this but basically I agree, if he's cutting out his wife to spend his only free time with Gwen then it's bad, don't mistake this with spending time with friends instead of wife is always bad...this is sort of a situational and moderation type issue. Some time with friends over wife is good, most of the time with friends over wife is not good.
Agreed on the temporary break thing, sort things out with your wife first, then start hanging out with Gwen again. Tell Gwen you're not ignoring her or cutting her out, you just need to sort out some personal issues.
Also, let your wife know that when she tries to cut you off from Gwen that you just try to spend time with her anyways but also make sure you let your wife know that you understand she gets jealous of Gwen due to the time you spend with her.
Really not much more we can do.
But you were dishonest to your wife and probably hurt her badly, damaging the trust you guys built up. Meaning to or not, you've shown contempt for her. This is a killer in relationships.
But maybe you want that? Sit down and decide if you want to stay married. Really. Do you love MJ and want to be with her forever?
If you do, you should seek some couples therapy to work on this and your other communication issues. Example: at the first sign of 'exhaustion' you should have brought it to your wife's attention. Remember that you're a team, you should be on the same side. When you aren't on the same side, that's a red flag for you both to back up and re-evaluate your positions and priorities.
Couples therapy will also give you someone to talk to about this that isn't emotionally involved in the situation.
I call it the best of/worst of you phase. During this phase, you feel stressed for whatever reason, in your situation, it's school, work and weird drama. Your wife who you said some "negative things" to is getting the worst of you. Someone who is not your wife is getting the best of you.
If your wife was getting the best of you, then you might not be having trouble with your friendship with another person. Now granted, in my marriage, my wife and I have a strict no hanging with opposite sex friends alone policy. We are both jealous people and it works for us. But it is an agreement we reached that we both thought was for the best.
Instead of helping your friend with her issues while you are at work, why not be having good communication with your wife instead? It will make her feel special (which you should be trying to do everyday) and it will make her more secure in her place as your number one. Right now, she probably does not feel too secure in her #1 place in your life due to your actions.
And it is a big deal to many married people if their spouse hangs out with a friend of the opposite sex. Especially if you aren't being a super awesome loving spouse when you do it.
You're married. Your relationship with your wife comes first in almost every single situation that you will encounter. This friendship with Gwen is, frankly, not worth it.
Issues of trust, friendship, and intentions tend to get a bit more complicated when you're dealing with married people. The truth is, a relationship with one of them is a relationship with both of them. Yes, you will have your own circle of friends, colleagues, associates, etc. But if one partner is uncomfortable with a relationship, then the other one has to take those concerns into serious consideration. That is part of being married. That is part of being in a union of two people. That is exactly what it means to share a life with someone.
Frankly, I think your entire situation is indicative of a larger issue within your marriage. You have barely any time outside of school and work. This leaves little time for your marriage (which requires time and work), and even less time for a social life outside of school, work, and marriage. So you have this one "friendship" with this person who you are able to fit into your life because she already shares something in common with you. In the meantime, you barely spend any time with your wife, which causes further strain on your marriage. She knows that you have a friendship with someone of the opposite sex, with whom you obviously get along and share common interests. So of course, this is going to cause her to doubt herself and your marriage together.
Is she behaving perfectly? No. But frankly, you've made some pretty bad decisions which have led to this point, and are continuing in behavior that is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. This is why your academic adviser told you it was dumb to work and go to school full-time. Because full-time means full-time, and doing two full-time things means you have no time to do anything else, including maintain a marriage or having an active social life.
The right thing to do would be to end the friendship, have an honest discussion with your wife about your entire living situation (work, school, social life, lack of time, trust, etc.), and spend more time with her outside of the home, in other contexts (i.e. go out on a date once in a while). Once you've established that your marriage is important to both of you, then maybe try branching out to find a real social life - one that isn't chock-full of asinine drama and stress. There is a time and a place to take a principled stand on something. This is not one of those times. It's not like she's a KKK member telling you that you can't be friends with a black man. Gwen isn't even a lifelong friend. She's someone you met after you got married, and someone with whom you decided to engage in a meaningful relationship (because that's what friendships are). Building a friendship requires time, effort, and consistent decision-making in favor of that relationship. Maybe you should've thought of your your marriage beforehand, and certainly while this process was taking place. Perceptions and feelings do matter, and your wife's should be the ones most important to you.
Do you really want to be married? It doesn't sound like it. In all honesty, this is small fish in the grand scheme of things. Think about the context of where you are in life, where your marriage is, and how it got to that point. It sounds to me like you need to make some real decisions.
Depends which version of Spiderman you're reading. In Ultimate Spiderman, it is a situation exactly like this where no friends Parker befriends the new girl at school, Gwen. MJ gets jealous even though nothing is going on and big fights ensue. Eventually MJ realizes that Gwen doesn't like Peter so they become friends. The End.
It's probably the only reason I kept reading that catastrophic wall of text.
Advice part: Basically let Your Wife = w
let R = all real women that aren't w
w > R
Except not the end because now Peter and Gwen are dating in USM.
I also thought the Gwen/MJ thing was weird, considering that many regard Gwen as Peters one true love.
It's an idiotic situation that I let happen and the majority advice is true.
I haven't read USM for a while but