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[WoW] Good [chat], everyone!

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Posts

  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    The second book is dune messiah, not children of dune. Paul doesn't die in dune messiah anyway. That analysis seems pretty iffy to me.

    Well most of the characters believe that he went off into the desert and died, he could have avoided the events that lead to what happened to him but chose to follow through so that the universe could be set on a particular path that had the greatest chance of humanity surviving the next several thousand years. So in essence he sacrificed himself for the good of humanity.

    Seg on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    The second book is dune messiah, not children of dune. Paul doesn't die in dune messiah anyway. That analysis seems pretty iffy to me.

    Not to be a negative nancy or anything, but I have my nook sitting here right in front of me with Dune Messiah loaded to the end of the book... I literally finished it last night before I went to sleep, and I double checked it before posting this. But yeah, sorry...

    spoilers...
    From the Sci-Fi TV miniseries I saw, Paul came back from the desert in Children of Dune many years later in the form of some hermit.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Grobian wrote: »
    I think having a dedicated heal (or even tank) spec is nice, because then you get to learn about the tools you'll have while leveling.

    Btw RankWatch even tells them about the dual spec bug (feature?) in the first whisper.

    And I had a Rogue in an Underbog run once that just hadn't been to the trainer for 8 levels. Seriously.

    I didn't train my hunter from level 61 to 68. There wasn't anything worth training *shrug*

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Septus wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    The second book is dune messiah, not children of dune. Paul doesn't die in dune messiah anyway. That analysis seems pretty iffy to me.

    Not to be a negative nancy or anything, but I have my nook sitting here right in front of me with Dune Messiah loaded to the end of the book... I literally finished it last night before I went to sleep, and I double checked it before posting this. But yeah, sorry...

    spoilers...
    From the Sci-Fi TV miniseries I saw, Paul came back from the desert in Children of Dune many years later in the form of some hermit.
    Interesting... I just started Children of Dune, and Paul's kids allude to this possibility, but I'm not very far in, and the hermit they refer to could be just some crazy person.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Gnutson wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    How do you still underrank shit? Even SPELLS are automatically replaced with higher ranks now.

    Only your active spec spells are replaced on your toolbar, when you switch to your other spec you have to manually update your stuff that has been upgraded.

    Hm I might need to get this to check myself then.

    Bigity on
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  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I would be pissed about the Dune spoiler but I've never actually got past the first twenty pages for some reason so I don't really care. After multiple attempts I've accepted that I will never read it. I think everyone has a book like that.

    jackal on
  • JohnnyToxxicJohnnyToxxic Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
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    JohnnyToxxic on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Grobian wrote: »
    I think having a dedicated heal (or even tank) spec is nice, because then you get to learn about the tools you'll have while leveling.

    Btw RankWatch even tells them about the dual spec bug (feature?) in the first whisper.

    And I had a Rogue in an Underbog run once that just hadn't been to the trainer for 8 levels. Seriously.

    I didn't train my hunter from level 61 to 68. There wasn't anything worth training *shrug*

    I hate levels like that.
    Woo! my Dk is 76! Time go train.... Death Coil... woo.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So, let's say you're tanking a Heroic.

    What is your opinion on the DPS and/or Healer leading your pulls? You're walking up to a group of mobs... and a DPS opens up on them before you do anything. Do you...

    A. Let them die.
    B. Let them die, and wipe group. Blame on them after.
    C. Taunt off of them once, then let them die if they do it again (after saying not to).
    D. Something hilarious and witty.


    Similar situation as a healer... if the DPS starts pulling, I stop healing them. But that's just me.

    GPIA7R on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Charge, Thunderclap/Shockwave, everything is glued to me and there is no problem.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    See, I don't agree with that.... It's not the "dime-a-dozen" DPS'ers job to decide when you're ready to pull. They shouldn't expect you to immediately hop into action and save them from dying because they're not happy with how fast the group is moving. The tank and healer decide the rate of progress. Am I wrong on that? Do you seriously allow your DPS to charge ahead of you and initiate combat?

    Edit: This occasionally happens even during a very fast-moving group, so I'm not sure what else comes to mind when they decide to do it.

    GPIA7R on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yes, because its just a heroic. I mean, you can cry and emo about it like a silly goose, or you can man up and deal with it.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think I'd let it slide if it were, say, a hunters auto-shot. And it was an accident that only happened once or twice. Otherwise I'd let them die.

    PierceNeck on
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    As a tank or healer, I take it on a case by case basis.

    If the DPS is opening up early, I'll ask them politely to stop. Unless they're capable of loading threat onto me such as a hunter or rogue, they are likely making my job more difficult, and thus, making me cranky.

    If they continue to do so (say, the elemental shaman who is too busy fapping over his chain lightning crits to show any amount of self control), I may just let them die. Sometimes the healer will struggle to save them, which I feel a little bad about, but unless the situation then threatens the healer, I'll let it play out.

    As a healer, I'll do what I can to protect everyone, but if one person is being a jackass, I might prioritize them last.

    It's passive aggressive, sure, but hopefully it also proves to be a learning experience. A PuG that's working collectively can chew up content at a good pace. Acting recklessly in any case can lead to risky situations that just slow things down or even lead to a wipe, which puts us way back on the progress meter.

    I will say this, however; exceptional dps who are essentially off-tanking loop around to getting plenty of attention. If I have a tank that's doing a good job and a rogue or DK or something that hits like a Mac truck made of lightning, I'll just treat them both as tanks and do my best to keep them alive. I'll prioritize whomever is either proper tanking or at least holding the most mobs, but if that player is good and/or geared enough to take the beating, all the more power to them. A mage that's being a jackass gets to rely on a fast blink or frost nova, but a quality mage that's, like, 5 shot'ing elites gets plenty of love in case they get in over their heads.

    Good dps that act badly get put back on the shit list until they get their heads from up their asses.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If for whatever reason I'm in a pug without any guildies or anything, I'd stand there and let them fight it. If they wipe they wipe, if they don't they don't. I then politely inform them that I'm the tank and if they'd like to tank they're more than welcome to queue for it otherwise to wait for me to be ready. If not, I leave group and re-queue or put on my dps gear/spec and let the other guy do it.

    Most heroics can be tanked by a plate dps if they've got enough gear.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • MegaPureiboiMegaPureiboi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    You could just tell them to stop and vote to kick if they don't.
    A wipe will just hurt everyone; letting it go and kill the DPS might stress out the healer, causing a wipe, or causing the healer to take damage after offing the DPS.

    MegaPureiboi on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Most of the time you're done with the instance before you can vote-kick. Which is sad really.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    In most cases with me, it's not a "good DPS" doing it. Just a scrub being impatient.

    My groups aren't slow, either. I take a lot of pride in how fast I complete heroics. I always give warning first before retaliating... but in most cases, it's just me not taunting them anymore for that person.

    GPIA7R on
  • XArchangelXXArchangelX Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If the group kinda knows wtf, I don't mind fighting with some good DPS for aggro. Anything that gets them to concentrate on killing shit fast.

    XArchangelX on
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  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    My method of handiling that situation is to let that DPS die. You whisper the healer, telling them what you're doing, then you just watch them die, while making sure that the moment they DO die, you are there ready to pick up every mob so no one else bears the brunt of their idiocy. Normally, the healer tends to respond to the warning whisper with maniacle glee.

    Sometimes I can't get a warning whisper to the healer, but in that case I make extra-special sure that I pick everything up when that over eager DPS goes down. If the healer is out of mana at that point, I'll pop my cooldowns to stay up.

    Decomposey on
    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I have vigilance, so if there is ever someone who can pull a mob off me he just gets Vig'd and nothing comes off me for the rest of the instance.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • EnderEnder Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    As a dps'er, I'll admit that I have occasionally jumped the gun on a tank.

    You have to understand sometimes that people just pull so fast, you get into a rhythm, and if they stutter even for a second, you can end up tanking a group that they hadn't pulled. :P

    It's not always fuckmuppetry (although I will say 95% of the cases are).

    Ender on
    eahenryii wrote: »

    i've resorted to reading your posts in William Shatner's voice.

    I am now using the Christopher Walken voice.
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    As a rogue in raids and heroics, I always held my survival to be my responsibility. The healer(s) is(are) there to keep the tanks alive, unless there is some kind of unavoidable AoE damage going around, in which case there's some attention that naturally needs to be paid to everyone.

    If I'm pulling aggro on a mob, I'd damned well be fast on the evasion/kidney shot/vanish. If I'm successful in locking the mob down and killing it, it's a non-issue. If I'm not, I do my best to escape/evade until either the tank gets it back, I'm successful in said evasion or killing, or I die.

    If I die, that's likely my fault. Unless the tank is utter shit, I went went in knowing there could be trouble, and I popped my cooldowns anyway. A massive burst spike in dps can often be handled by said dps themselves anyway, if they're cognizent of what they're doing. I can't tell you how many times I'd load up an aimed shot / multi-shot / feign all in succession (prior to the days of misdirect, of course), putting out some hefty damage and likely not moving the mob pack more than a few feet, if at all.

    Or loaded up trinkets, blade flurry and adrenaline rush, plowing through 3 mobs of a 6 mob pack only to vanish off the others as they turned to me with intent to do harm. Mages can invis/iceblock, warlocks can soulshatter (warlocks I feel have the fewest options for self preservation beyond drain life tanking, even if their survivability is excellent, so I admit I watch out for them a little more closely).

    You can be a giant, reckless, flaming, front loading silly goose, but if you're responsible about it, you're less likely to earn group kicking or bitching at levels of ire.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The thing that really gets me with fast pulling are the times when the healer has like 10k mana and complains when you pull a group of two mobs. Are they so worried about losing that conjured mage food that they have to complain about it? Silly geese...

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    As a rogue in raids and heroics, I always held my survival to be my responsibility. The healer(s) is(are) there to keep the tanks alive, unless there is some kind of unavoidable AoE damage going around, in which case there's some attention that naturally needs to be paid to everyone.

    Hm, interesting, this brings up another point...

    Let's say you're amazing. You've got best-in-slot everything. You're the Rogue

    Your tank is a T9/10 geared non-raider. He doesn't have best in slot everything, but he's certainly no pushover. He's worked hard for what he has, and knows what he's doing.

    Who is the onus on for the Rogue's survival? If the rogue does so much DPS that the tank cannot keep the boss on him... is it the Rogue's job to hold back a bit? Or is it the tank's fault? Assume both players know what they're doing and how to play responsibly, and in most cases, I'd assume the Rogue would lighten up a bit... but assume it's a Rogue that makes love to his recount meters and doesn't hold back for anyone. Would the rogue have room to bitch at the tank for their death?

    GPIA7R on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If DPS pulls fast, I run in and start tanking.

    If they die because I can't pull aggro off them fast enough? Tough shit.

    But I know for sure me and the Healer are gonna survive the pull no matter what, so the rest is irrelevant to me. If the DPS die, they will learn their lesson eventually.

    shryke on
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    edited January 2010
    I never hold back. Rogues have Vanish, Tricks (that lasts 10 seconds if they have it glyhped (and they should), and feint. If I steal the aggro off a tank it is compeltely my fault. I just got a mac so please excuse the spelling mistakes, I have not figured out how to right click the words yet :P.

    On the other hand, say you have a fury warrior with Cleave Glyphed. I can gaurantee unless he holds back a little bit,they WILL pull aggro of the tank.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If after tricks of the trade and a timely vanish, I'm still catching up to the tank? Well, that's a choice to make. Do I feel lucky? Well, do I?

    Unless my dying will leave the group unable to kill the boss, I might just go with it and see if Evasion, cloak and whatever else are enough to keep me standing, but if I drop, then it's my fault and I'll take responsibility for it.

    As we used to drill into the rogues in MC: a dead rogue deals 0 dps.

    Walking the line between dealing damage and survival can be a tough one to walk, but it's a small bit of accountability to take, in my opinion.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    In most cases with me, it's not a "good DPS" doing it. Just a scrub being impatient.

    My groups aren't slow, either. I take a lot of pride in how fast I complete heroics. I always give warning first before retaliating... but in most cases, it's just me not taunting them anymore for that person.

    These days you can vote to kick too. Especially with DPS, we're always in the queue waiting to murder things.

    Zampanov on
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    PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Only after 15 minutes. I have kicked people at the last boss in many instances because they were pulling sub 800 dps. Did I feel bad about it? Nope.
    A hunter in full t9.0 should not be doing 800 dps. I think he was trolling us.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    If after tricks of the trade and a timely vanish, I'm still catching up to the tank? Well, that's a choice to make. Do I feel lucky? Well, do I?

    Unless my dying will leave the group unable to kill the boss, I might just go with it and see if Evasion, cloak and whatever else are enough to keep me standing, but if I drop, then it's my fault and I'll take responsibility for it.

    As we used to drill into the rogues in MC: a dead rogue deals 0 dps.

    Walking the line between dealing damage and survival can be a tough one to walk, but it's a small bit of accountability to take, in my opinion.

    Friend of mine isn't the best tank in the world. Gets pretty pissed when DPS are pulling off of him. Expects the entire group to tone themselves down to meet his needs. A real dick, hard to argue without him storming away in a pissy fit. Off on a tangent here... but he tries to criticize my tanking (my supurb tanking) when I pull too fast for his DPS classes, or if something hits him just once... meh.

    One of those guys that if I say "Turn on righteous fury"... he responds with "I FUCKING KNOW, SHUT THE FUCK UP."

    Yeah I guess a Rogue wasn't the best example here with their multiple survival skills, but most DPS have those now I s'pose. Whether it be fade, ice block, vanish, or feign...

    GPIA7R on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I love the lowbie pugs where you get one or two really retarded silly geese. That complain the instant they get in for buffs, ramble about nonsense, ask for rolling on stuff that doesn't matter and roll on them anyway, and just the whole thing.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Only after 15 minutes. I have kicked people at the last boss in many instances because they were pulling sub 800 dps. Did I feel bad about it? Nope.
    A hunter in full t9.0 should not be doing 800 dps. I think he was trolling us.

    I only have anecdotal experience, so this is obviously not science of any kind, but it's my experience that people who play hunters are fucking weird. You never know what the hell they're going to do.

    I reupped recently (either I was bored or too intimidated with my ridiculous batch of steam games from that crazy sale) and made an alliance dk, and I forgot how fun it is to pug with that class, especially with the dungeon queue system. I never check tank, but I'm always up for taking over if a tank bails/proves himself to be moronic/insane. Out-of-the-box versatility is awesome.

    Zampanov on
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    PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Yeah I guess a Rogue wasn't the best example here with their multiple survival skills, but most DPS have those now I s'pose. Whether it be fade, ice block, vanish, or feign...

    Or chop harder till it dies? That's what I always use.

    Zampanov on
    r4zgei8pcfod.gif
    PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    As long as the DPS isn't actually pulling, the tanks should be able to keep everything on him, in my experience.

    If I'm DPSing on my shaman, I let the tank pull, then go all out. If I aggro anything, it's usually mostly dead anyways. I can take a hit. If the tank gets pissy about that, he needs to be less of a control freak.

    In my tanking experience, I am glad for DPS that like to push it. Tanking trash is only fun if I'm really fighting the DPS, or I'm pulling 2 packs at once.

    captaink on
  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    captaink wrote: »
    As long as the DPS isn't actually pulling, the tanks should be able to keep everything on him, in my experience.

    If I'm DPSing on my shaman, I let the tank pull, then go all out. If I aggro anything, it's usually mostly dead anyways. I can take a hit. If the tank gets pissy about that, he needs to be less of a control freak.

    In my tanking experience, I am glad for DPS that like to push it. Tanking trash is only fun if I'm really fighting the DPS, or I'm pulling 2 packs at once.

    Quite often my pull is only good against one out of 5+ targets. If you drop totems/chain lightning right after I throw at a caster to silence the caster and pull the group you are going to have 4+ mobs on you. Meanwhile as a Warrior I now have almost no rage and only one mob angry at me, this is where I get frustrated.

    Seg on
  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Seg wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    As long as the DPS isn't actually pulling, the tanks should be able to keep everything on him, in my experience.

    If I'm DPSing on my shaman, I let the tank pull, then go all out. If I aggro anything, it's usually mostly dead anyways. I can take a hit. If the tank gets pissy about that, he needs to be less of a control freak.

    In my tanking experience, I am glad for DPS that like to push it. Tanking trash is only fun if I'm really fighting the DPS, or I'm pulling 2 packs at once.

    Quite often my pull is only good against one out of 5+ targets. If you drop totems/chain lightning right after I throw at a caster to silence the caster and pull the group you are going to have 4+ mobs on you. Meanwhile as a Warrior I now have almost no rage and only one mob angry at me, this is where I get frustrated.

    Yeah, see, warrior doesn't seem as fun to me.

    Zampanov on
    r4zgei8pcfod.gif
    PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Seg wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    As long as the DPS isn't actually pulling, the tanks should be able to keep everything on him, in my experience.

    If I'm DPSing on my shaman, I let the tank pull, then go all out. If I aggro anything, it's usually mostly dead anyways. I can take a hit. If the tank gets pissy about that, he needs to be less of a control freak.

    In my tanking experience, I am glad for DPS that like to push it. Tanking trash is only fun if I'm really fighting the DPS, or I'm pulling 2 packs at once.

    Quite often my pull is only good against one out of 5+ targets. If you drop totems/chain lightning right after I throw at a caster to silence the caster and pull the group you are going to have 4+ mobs on you. Meanwhile as a Warrior I now have almost no rage and only one mob angry at me, this is where I get frustrated.

    Yeah, see, warrior doesn't seem as fun to me.

    Give me time to get punched once or twice and I swear to you that I will be charging into the next group before this group is dead.

    Seg on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    One of our unholy dps dks tanked the trash for Sarth25 the other night. That was fun.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I just wanna say I've run with Knut (captaink) as his tank before and when he means "let the tank pull" he means "let the tank get off 2-3 GCDs of abilities to build threat", then unload DPS.

    Naphtali on
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